No Nemo121, in here, please…
Ok, Ladies – if there are any- and Gentlemen, here we go…
As some of you may know already, Nemo’s opponent from his Gutter War AAR had to quit because of lack of time. Nemo asked for takers who would be ready to continue this empires ablaze game in his AAR, and I fell for it.
To be fair, I must stress that Nemo sent the game file to me first to have a look at it. The date was June 19 1942, and things look grim for the Allied side. Nemo and I agreed to move back a bit in time, to the beginning of June, and take it from there. Actually, I don’t think that will improve the situation much, but give Nemo the fun of destroying/sinking what he did during that period of time once more, possibly losses will be higher and achievements less. But it provides an opportunity to jump right into the game rather than employing some armistice.
I should also stress that I mainly took the game in order to learn, not because I think I play at a high level, and pointed this out to him as well. Till now, I have played only vanilla, thus I am even new to this map. I’ll do my best to cause him trouble, of course, but that will be difficult. The Allied have been quite gutted in this gutter war so far. But there’s plenty of good stuff still to come, especially once we get into 43. But till there, we will fight uphill.
Nemo suggested several times that in order to make my life a bit easier, maybe I should open an AAR to get some additional advice – and this is why I start this thread. I would appreciate contributions to strategic discussions (including open criticism of my ideas and plans) and hope for scores information and good advice, of course. I’ll try to put in a bit of entertainment now and then as well, but that’s not a promise. The drawback is, of course, that it will probably slow down the game, which will probably start relatively slow anyway, even more. I guess AARs take time…
This is just the opener, as I do not have the turn we are going to start from right now. As soon as that is available, I will post some screenshots illustrating the situation and what I think can/should be done.
Thanks for reading (and contributing)
Hartwig
Gutted - Hartwig (Allied) vs Nemo (Japan)
Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
RE: Gutted
Ok, here’s my first question:
Does anyone know whether oil or resources are more critical for Japan in this game ? In Stock I think it’s oil, but I think I remember that in some mods resources are more essential.
Thanks
Hartwig
Does anyone know whether oil or resources are more critical for Japan in this game ? In Stock I think it’s oil, but I think I remember that in some mods resources are more essential.
Thanks
Hartwig
RE: Gutted
hartwig.modrow,
I recommend that you read fully the earlier AARs of 2ndACR and 1EyedJacks before you finalise your initial operational plans.
Regarding your specific question, the qualified answer is Oil. I can't access the mod now (will probably be a few weeks before I can do so again), so I am commenting from memory.
Firstly, do not think that industry (and its requisite raw materials) is limited/concentrated solely to the Home Islands. You need to conceptualise of several discrete industrial regions eg
Home Islands
Manchukuo
Siam/Indochina
Malaya
India
Formosa
Sumatra
Java
Siberia
Borneo
Philippines
Australia
Some of these regions essentially provide raw materials (Oil and Resources), but several have substantial industrial facilities. Even regions which normally have no industrail capacity, in this mod do have the capacity to build up Heavy Industry - thus Japan can disperse its industrial capacity. All the industrial regions are basically self supporting in resources (or can use short legged barges to import any required small amounts).
Secondly, whilst there is some need for the Home Islands to import some raw materials (primarily Oil), not all the importation is dependent on the blue water merchant navy. Therefore, whilst a sea blockade of the Home Islands is still important, it is not as crucial as in other mods.
Thirdly, the enormous number of oil centres located in Palembang means that Japan can store and transport a lot of Oil (and Fuel) at a time when the Allies lack the capacity to seriously interdict the SLOC from Sumatra to Honshu.
Alfred
I recommend that you read fully the earlier AARs of 2ndACR and 1EyedJacks before you finalise your initial operational plans.
Regarding your specific question, the qualified answer is Oil. I can't access the mod now (will probably be a few weeks before I can do so again), so I am commenting from memory.
Firstly, do not think that industry (and its requisite raw materials) is limited/concentrated solely to the Home Islands. You need to conceptualise of several discrete industrial regions eg
Home Islands
Manchukuo
Siam/Indochina
Malaya
India
Formosa
Sumatra
Java
Siberia
Borneo
Philippines
Australia
Some of these regions essentially provide raw materials (Oil and Resources), but several have substantial industrial facilities. Even regions which normally have no industrail capacity, in this mod do have the capacity to build up Heavy Industry - thus Japan can disperse its industrial capacity. All the industrial regions are basically self supporting in resources (or can use short legged barges to import any required small amounts).
Secondly, whilst there is some need for the Home Islands to import some raw materials (primarily Oil), not all the importation is dependent on the blue water merchant navy. Therefore, whilst a sea blockade of the Home Islands is still important, it is not as crucial as in other mods.
Thirdly, the enormous number of oil centres located in Palembang means that Japan can store and transport a lot of Oil (and Fuel) at a time when the Allies lack the capacity to seriously interdict the SLOC from Sumatra to Honshu.
Alfred
RE: Gutted
Alfred,
thanks a lot for your detailed info. Nemo indicated that you might toss in advice at times, which is very valuable. I hope I will be able to transform it into successful operations on the board. One of my present weaknesses is that my categorization of ops into "will work most likely/might work/cannot work" on the tactical level is not as good as it might be, partly due to playing a mod, but not only for that reason.
I do a lot of AAR reading right now - Nemo ok'd this-, I will just stay out of his AAR relating to this game (which I followed previously). I did read 2ndACRs AAR - you will hopefully notice that once I start discussing concepts here, because I think you provided very good advice, which I partly copied into my notebook for this game. In there, there's the link to 1EyedJack's AAR, so that is on my list as well.
Also, reading "defeating the devil" is very interesting... gives you a lot of ideas about the player Nemo and what the Allied side may try at a suitable point of time.
If anyone out there is aware of other helpful reads, please give me a link.
Apart from the reading, I am trying to figure out a) where I want to go in the longer term to get my fingers round his throat and b) how to constitute as sound a basis as possible for this plan based on the situation I found on the map. For the near future, as long as I do not have a big hammer to start demolishing his war machine, I have to localize ways how to throw bits of dust into its gear. I need to dephase him. IMHO he uses nonlinear effects achieved by using his assets synchroneously, in phase, to arrive at such a dream-map for Nippon as I will start displaying here at some point today by the beginning of June. If I cannot stop him from doing that, I will be reduced to the areas which he declared off-limits for himself before the end of 42. This is NOT where I want to be at that point of time.
Hartwig
thanks a lot for your detailed info. Nemo indicated that you might toss in advice at times, which is very valuable. I hope I will be able to transform it into successful operations on the board. One of my present weaknesses is that my categorization of ops into "will work most likely/might work/cannot work" on the tactical level is not as good as it might be, partly due to playing a mod, but not only for that reason.
I do a lot of AAR reading right now - Nemo ok'd this-, I will just stay out of his AAR relating to this game (which I followed previously). I did read 2ndACRs AAR - you will hopefully notice that once I start discussing concepts here, because I think you provided very good advice, which I partly copied into my notebook for this game. In there, there's the link to 1EyedJack's AAR, so that is on my list as well.
Also, reading "defeating the devil" is very interesting... gives you a lot of ideas about the player Nemo and what the Allied side may try at a suitable point of time.
If anyone out there is aware of other helpful reads, please give me a link.
Apart from the reading, I am trying to figure out a) where I want to go in the longer term to get my fingers round his throat and b) how to constitute as sound a basis as possible for this plan based on the situation I found on the map. For the near future, as long as I do not have a big hammer to start demolishing his war machine, I have to localize ways how to throw bits of dust into its gear. I need to dephase him. IMHO he uses nonlinear effects achieved by using his assets synchroneously, in phase, to arrive at such a dream-map for Nippon as I will start displaying here at some point today by the beginning of June. If I cannot stop him from doing that, I will be reduced to the areas which he declared off-limits for himself before the end of 42. This is NOT where I want to be at that point of time.
Hartwig
Situation info
Ok, as promised, I will show more of the grim situation. I'll most likely upload pictures first and comment later in more detail. Let's start with the strategic map.
As you can see in a single view here, apart from the "standard program" the Japanese are in process of taking India and the Soviet Union, are in possession of Port Moresby and Noumea, the Aleutians, part of the line Islands (Palmyra, Christmas Island) and the small bases near PH.
You will note that there are a few "green Islands" visible in this view. These are areas which Nemo decided not to take right now, because it's not essential for him to do so. Typically, they are completely suppressed from a few key bases - at least when Betties are available at those bases. Which I think cannot be the case all the time, thus during the rest of the time fear that Betties may be there shall keep us at bay. Or shall it not ?
Hartwig
As you can see in a single view here, apart from the "standard program" the Japanese are in process of taking India and the Soviet Union, are in possession of Port Moresby and Noumea, the Aleutians, part of the line Islands (Palmyra, Christmas Island) and the small bases near PH.
You will note that there are a few "green Islands" visible in this view. These are areas which Nemo decided not to take right now, because it's not essential for him to do so. Typically, they are completely suppressed from a few key bases - at least when Betties are available at those bases. Which I think cannot be the case all the time, thus during the rest of the time fear that Betties may be there shall keep us at bay. Or shall it not ?
Hartwig
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Hawaii region
This is a nice example for efficient use of forces and what Nemo relies on:
I should add that Nemo is also in possession of Johnston (sp?) Island.
He just moved in, took the bases needed to strangle Pearl and relies on his air force to a) keep the places shut down and b) prevent shipping from going in and out. Unfortunately, the Allied airstrips in the region are pretty much closed and the squadrons pretty much out of business, thus one cannot even return the favour and make him starve as well.
I should add that Nemo is also in possession of Johnston (sp?) Island.
He just moved in, took the bases needed to strangle Pearl and relies on his air force to a) keep the places shut down and b) prevent shipping from going in and out. Unfortunately, the Allied airstrips in the region are pretty much closed and the squadrons pretty much out of business, thus one cannot even return the favour and make him starve as well.
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Ship losses
This is a bit out of sequence, but may be important as background information, thus I will show it here:
This is part of the reason why running a counterinvasion here is not quite free of problems even though we have a few Marine fighter units on the map which might be used to make use of the effects of a massive CAP (>200 Wildcats) to cover this type of op.
Hartwig
This is part of the reason why running a counterinvasion here is not quite free of problems even though we have a few Marine fighter units on the map which might be used to make use of the effects of a massive CAP (>200 Wildcats) to cover this type of op.
Hartwig
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RE: Ship losses
Good to see you've joined Nemo's fight club [;)]
In my game V Nemo - which there is also a Japanese side side AAR I talk about Nemo's tactics and also about Oil/Res/HI, if you are interested.
In summary: (and if it is the same version as my game - as Nemo and I talked about the economic model a bit)
1. There is an overabundance of Oil in storage in the Home Is at the beginning and I now have about 1.5 years storage (Oct '42)
2. There is an overabundance of Res but these are not in the Home Is & need to be transported - this can be mainly achieved by transporting from Manchuria / Nth China. A good interdiction here from China might have him placeing more LRCAP on shipping / use subs... which you whould have plenty of...
3. The critical mass in this mod is HI - the Japanese player starts at 12K HI and needs about 15~16K to really produce the cool stuff in large numbers and 18~19 for full production. All three area's of production 1. Arm/Veh production for LCU 2. Ship Points 3. Airframes and engines are very expensive. Why ? 1. well because of the size of the units and armour needed. 2. The build list is stacked with many high durability ships. 3. Angels/etc are 6 engined ...
4. Nemo's expansion of HI has probably come through conquest mostly ... A lot of that HI is probably in area's that you can't get to right now, but it is worth noting enough that you should load up a new scenario game and look at it through Tracker / WITP to see the points of interest.
5. Nemo has absolutely destroyed me ... How ? 1. Concentrated use of combined arms. 2. The Aleutians is so weather friendly(plane unfriendly) to fast transports and movement. 3. Pe-2's and High Alt LB pushing me back enough to then allow a jump forward with fast Transports. 4. Para Drops behind enemy lines - then transports / Patrol plane build ups of troops combined with large CAP over the base. 5. Liberal use of all those Chinese units etc ... read more in my AAR...
Hope this helps some
Damian
In my game V Nemo - which there is also a Japanese side side AAR I talk about Nemo's tactics and also about Oil/Res/HI, if you are interested.
In summary: (and if it is the same version as my game - as Nemo and I talked about the economic model a bit)
1. There is an overabundance of Oil in storage in the Home Is at the beginning and I now have about 1.5 years storage (Oct '42)
2. There is an overabundance of Res but these are not in the Home Is & need to be transported - this can be mainly achieved by transporting from Manchuria / Nth China. A good interdiction here from China might have him placeing more LRCAP on shipping / use subs... which you whould have plenty of...
3. The critical mass in this mod is HI - the Japanese player starts at 12K HI and needs about 15~16K to really produce the cool stuff in large numbers and 18~19 for full production. All three area's of production 1. Arm/Veh production for LCU 2. Ship Points 3. Airframes and engines are very expensive. Why ? 1. well because of the size of the units and armour needed. 2. The build list is stacked with many high durability ships. 3. Angels/etc are 6 engined ...
4. Nemo's expansion of HI has probably come through conquest mostly ... A lot of that HI is probably in area's that you can't get to right now, but it is worth noting enough that you should load up a new scenario game and look at it through Tracker / WITP to see the points of interest.
5. Nemo has absolutely destroyed me ... How ? 1. Concentrated use of combined arms. 2. The Aleutians is so weather friendly(plane unfriendly) to fast transports and movement. 3. Pe-2's and High Alt LB pushing me back enough to then allow a jump forward with fast Transports. 4. Para Drops behind enemy lines - then transports / Patrol plane build ups of troops combined with large CAP over the base. 5. Liberal use of all those Chinese units etc ... read more in my AAR...
Hope this helps some
Damian
RE: Ship losses
Damian,
thanks a lot for sharing your experience here. For the love of it[;)], I had an occasional look at your AAR previously, but now I will go through it thoroughly. In any case, I know what to go after with my heavies and my subs now (although Nemo has been very successful in ASW warfare, 91 subs lost and there is no base really close by. But maybe this is a use for Midway, which is still mine...)
"Fight club" is an interesting term to use. It reminds me of the movie, which is interesting due to the psychological implications. If you manage to start your opponent seeing fake dangers where there are none and undermine his trust in his plans, leading to an order-counteorder-disorder-situation, you have done a good job as commander. Unfortunately, given Nemo's profession I am quite sure I will not be successful or even on the offense in this theater.
Also, very interesting comments re. the Aleutians. This is one axis of attack where I have to apply pressure. Problem is, of course, that as far as I see it now it is also the evident axis of attack that is left in this game and I need to build up forces up north first. I probably need to phase this in such a way that I draw his mobile rection forces away to another place first and then strike hard at a "surprising" place. We'll see.
Thanks again for your contribution - come back frequently and help to bring down our evil opponent [8D]
Hartwig
thanks a lot for sharing your experience here. For the love of it[;)], I had an occasional look at your AAR previously, but now I will go through it thoroughly. In any case, I know what to go after with my heavies and my subs now (although Nemo has been very successful in ASW warfare, 91 subs lost and there is no base really close by. But maybe this is a use for Midway, which is still mine...)
"Fight club" is an interesting term to use. It reminds me of the movie, which is interesting due to the psychological implications. If you manage to start your opponent seeing fake dangers where there are none and undermine his trust in his plans, leading to an order-counteorder-disorder-situation, you have done a good job as commander. Unfortunately, given Nemo's profession I am quite sure I will not be successful or even on the offense in this theater.
Also, very interesting comments re. the Aleutians. This is one axis of attack where I have to apply pressure. Problem is, of course, that as far as I see it now it is also the evident axis of attack that is left in this game and I need to build up forces up north first. I probably need to phase this in such a way that I draw his mobile rection forces away to another place first and then strike hard at a "surprising" place. We'll see.
Thanks again for your contribution - come back frequently and help to bring down our evil opponent [8D]
Hartwig
RE: Ship losses
Ok, one more item that I am going to place here this morning - got to go in a few minutes. But maybe if I post this now, someone will have had good ideas/advice while I am away...
This is one of the two "hot war" theaters (China doesn't really count for me right now, because of the lack of supply I feel limited in what I can do there), in which I will have to act immediately: India.
Karachi will be lost soon. Not enough AV there to hold for long. Question is which steps I should take to keep Nemo's troops tied as long as possible in this theater. Just hunkering down in "save" places and waiting for the end to come may well result in being left without many supplies and a mere holding force in place, while the juggernaut goes elsewhere. Any great ideas anyone ?
This is one of the two "hot war" theaters (China doesn't really count for me right now, because of the lack of supply I feel limited in what I can do there), in which I will have to act immediately: India.
Karachi will be lost soon. Not enough AV there to hold for long. Question is which steps I should take to keep Nemo's troops tied as long as possible in this theater. Just hunkering down in "save" places and waiting for the end to come may well result in being left without many supplies and a mere holding force in place, while the juggernaut goes elsewhere. Any great ideas anyone ?
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RE: Ship losses
hartwig.modrow,
Before considered advice can be given, you should provide details on (or at least factor this into your planning if you do not intend to disclose this info here):
(1) Allied forces and estimated enemy forces per hex (AV would suffice)
(2) fortification level per hex containing Allied units
(3) funtional resources per Allied base
(4) what theatre reserves are available in Aden both now and arriving in the next 2-4 weeks
(5) what naval (both combat and merchant marine) resources are available in theatre
(6) what are you intentions towards the Maldives
(7) what are you theatre air assets, in particular air transport capacity
Just on the visual provided, you do have two possible festungs possible where troops should be concentrated:
(a) Diamond Harbour/Calcutta/Dacca/Chittagong triangle
(b) New Delhi (outpost spur)/Lahore/Rawalpindi
these festungs (and their attendant river lines) provide you with some depth and therefore the continued production of raw materials (see point 3 above - particularly with reference to Diamond Harbour and Dacca) to feed the troops. The enemy will not be able to maintain minimal forces only in order to besiege these redoubts. Strong Allied forces situated behind river lines may be able to eject enemy river crossings.
For a more offensive pose, New Delhi and the naval resources will be the key. Ideally you would reestablish a continuous Allied frontline, but you may lack the resources to do so.
Alfred
Before considered advice can be given, you should provide details on (or at least factor this into your planning if you do not intend to disclose this info here):
(1) Allied forces and estimated enemy forces per hex (AV would suffice)
(2) fortification level per hex containing Allied units
(3) funtional resources per Allied base
(4) what theatre reserves are available in Aden both now and arriving in the next 2-4 weeks
(5) what naval (both combat and merchant marine) resources are available in theatre
(6) what are you intentions towards the Maldives
(7) what are you theatre air assets, in particular air transport capacity
Just on the visual provided, you do have two possible festungs possible where troops should be concentrated:
(a) Diamond Harbour/Calcutta/Dacca/Chittagong triangle
(b) New Delhi (outpost spur)/Lahore/Rawalpindi
these festungs (and their attendant river lines) provide you with some depth and therefore the continued production of raw materials (see point 3 above - particularly with reference to Diamond Harbour and Dacca) to feed the troops. The enemy will not be able to maintain minimal forces only in order to besiege these redoubts. Strong Allied forces situated behind river lines may be able to eject enemy river crossings.
For a more offensive pose, New Delhi and the naval resources will be the key. Ideally you would reestablish a continuous Allied frontline, but you may lack the resources to do so.
Alfred
RE: Ship losses
Alfred,
you are, of course, correct. I will provide more detailed info hopefully later today. For starters: In Aden I have two crippled Infantery units (about 40 AV each) and the small Indian tank unit (Cara..., I don't recall the name right now) which is not in good shape either (maybe 30 AV). An Indian division is due in a short while. There are the Brit carriers, 4 CL, 5 or 6 DD a few transports and a short-range Dutch sub. Not much... But I think about using the crippled infantery to stir up trouble at the west coast (fast TF in - take base and maybe a hex next to it - fast TF out). Nothing truly meaningful.
Air transport capability in the theater looks like zero. I am still checking whether there is a chance to get a sizeable fighter force to any base, right now I can put only 20-30 fighters in the air which won't do much good. Bomber forces are severely decimated - maybe 15 planes available from 4 or 5 units; 1 B17.
I have a cheap plan to attempt getting the forces trapped by hex possession only at Madras back to mobile warfare and/or . If it fails, I won't lose much. If it works, I have an additional degree of freedom to work with.
Festung option b probably won't work. I do not see that I can defend the three places I would need to defend with the troops I got remaining.
Sorry, got to run. Will be back later today.
Hartwig
ORIGINAL: Alfred
hartwig.modrow,
Before considered advice can be given, you should provide details on (or at least factor this into your planning if you do not intend to disclose this info here):
(1) Allied forces and estimated enemy forces per hex (AV would suffice)
(2) fortification level per hex containing Allied units
(3) funtional resources per Allied base
(4) what theatre reserves are available in Aden both now and arriving in the next 2-4 weeks
(5) what naval (both combat and merchant marine) resources are available in theatre
(6) what are you intentions towards the Maldives
(7) what are you theatre air assets, in particular air transport capacity
Just on the visual provided, you do have two possible festungs possible where troops should be concentrated:
(a) Diamond Harbour/Calcutta/Dacca/Chittagong triangle
(b) New Delhi (outpost spur)/Lahore/Rawalpindi
these festungs (and their attendant river lines) provide you with some depth and therefore the continued production of raw materials (see point 3 above - particularly with reference to Diamond Harbour and Dacca) to feed the troops. The enemy will not be able to maintain minimal forces only in order to besiege these redoubts. Strong Allied forces situated behind river lines may be able to eject enemy river crossings.
For a more offensive pose, New Delhi and the naval resources will be the key. Ideally you would reestablish a continuous Allied frontline, but you may lack the resources to do so.
Alfred
you are, of course, correct. I will provide more detailed info hopefully later today. For starters: In Aden I have two crippled Infantery units (about 40 AV each) and the small Indian tank unit (Cara..., I don't recall the name right now) which is not in good shape either (maybe 30 AV). An Indian division is due in a short while. There are the Brit carriers, 4 CL, 5 or 6 DD a few transports and a short-range Dutch sub. Not much... But I think about using the crippled infantery to stir up trouble at the west coast (fast TF in - take base and maybe a hex next to it - fast TF out). Nothing truly meaningful.
Air transport capability in the theater looks like zero. I am still checking whether there is a chance to get a sizeable fighter force to any base, right now I can put only 20-30 fighters in the air which won't do much good. Bomber forces are severely decimated - maybe 15 planes available from 4 or 5 units; 1 B17.
I have a cheap plan to attempt getting the forces trapped by hex possession only at Madras back to mobile warfare and/or . If it fails, I won't lose much. If it works, I have an additional degree of freedom to work with.
Festung option b probably won't work. I do not see that I can defend the three places I would need to defend with the troops I got remaining.
Sorry, got to run. Will be back later today.
Hartwig
RE: Ship losses
More about India...
In this post, I will provide some more detailed information on India – even though collecting the information Alfred has asked for pretty much showed me the answer regarding the approach that one probably has to follow.
This is the info I got on the Japanese forces:
Cuttack: 1250 AV
Madras: 480 AV
Patna: 1 unit, 160 AV , 292 AFV
Jamshedpur: 17 units
Lucknow: 4 units
Hyderabad: 4 units
W of Delhi: 3 units, 37000 troops, 292 AFV
Malir 14 units
Bombay 9 units
Nemo did an excellent Job splitting the defenders of India and pinning them down using the movement rules. This is what I’ve got left:
Karachi: 100 AV, LVL 5
Madras: 500 AV; 300 Res.; LVL 3
Calcutta: 580 AV; 300 Res., LVL 5
Delhi: 450 AV, LVL 4
Asansol: 300 AV, 500 Res.
Agra: 200 AV
Benares: 65 AV
Cuttack: 300 AV, 50 Res., LVL 4
I think this shows pretty much that I need to concentrate, especially when bearing in mind that many units are not prepped for the base they are supposed to defend and morale is quite low – for two units even in the one digit range. A pity I don’t have airlift capability in or anywhere near this theater. Paratroopers might be helpful as well, but nowhere to be had.
I don’t believe that I can bring the troops at Madras to Calcutta, but might be able to unite Cuttack and Madras forces (both are presently tied in their respective hexes due to Japanese control of all surrounding hexes) in Madras on the one hand and Delhi and Calcutta forces around Calcutta on the other hand as well as stirring some trouble by getting into a moving war rather than one in which the Allied units are completely tied down.
The decision against Delhi is strengthened when looking at the HI available, which Damian pointed out to be an essential entity in this mod. There is a lot of HI in the Calcutta area (>1100 HI points), but only little around Delhi – denying this to Nemo for as long as possible adds to the reasons to defend Calcutta area.
As mentioned earlier, I might also try to harass the Indian west coast by means of Fast TF mini invasions, but even if they don’t get caught by Nemo’s AC I think he can, should and will ignore them as far as reaction with ground forces is concerned…
Another interesting issue raised by Alfred is the Maledives. I will try to build up the base there, Addu Atoll, if Nemo should allow me to do so. This base is what the Indian Division about to arrive in two weeks is earmarked for and can be made even stronger if necessary. I think I can live with the risk of being overwhelmed and losing the unit there.
Not sure yet whether I should wait until I can place all reinforcements at once or start reinforcing at once.
More info on other theatres to follow.
Hartwig
In this post, I will provide some more detailed information on India – even though collecting the information Alfred has asked for pretty much showed me the answer regarding the approach that one probably has to follow.
This is the info I got on the Japanese forces:
Cuttack: 1250 AV
Madras: 480 AV
Patna: 1 unit, 160 AV , 292 AFV
Jamshedpur: 17 units
Lucknow: 4 units
Hyderabad: 4 units
W of Delhi: 3 units, 37000 troops, 292 AFV
Malir 14 units
Bombay 9 units
Nemo did an excellent Job splitting the defenders of India and pinning them down using the movement rules. This is what I’ve got left:
Karachi: 100 AV, LVL 5
Madras: 500 AV; 300 Res.; LVL 3
Calcutta: 580 AV; 300 Res., LVL 5
Delhi: 450 AV, LVL 4
Asansol: 300 AV, 500 Res.
Agra: 200 AV
Benares: 65 AV
Cuttack: 300 AV, 50 Res., LVL 4
I think this shows pretty much that I need to concentrate, especially when bearing in mind that many units are not prepped for the base they are supposed to defend and morale is quite low – for two units even in the one digit range. A pity I don’t have airlift capability in or anywhere near this theater. Paratroopers might be helpful as well, but nowhere to be had.
I don’t believe that I can bring the troops at Madras to Calcutta, but might be able to unite Cuttack and Madras forces (both are presently tied in their respective hexes due to Japanese control of all surrounding hexes) in Madras on the one hand and Delhi and Calcutta forces around Calcutta on the other hand as well as stirring some trouble by getting into a moving war rather than one in which the Allied units are completely tied down.
The decision against Delhi is strengthened when looking at the HI available, which Damian pointed out to be an essential entity in this mod. There is a lot of HI in the Calcutta area (>1100 HI points), but only little around Delhi – denying this to Nemo for as long as possible adds to the reasons to defend Calcutta area.
As mentioned earlier, I might also try to harass the Indian west coast by means of Fast TF mini invasions, but even if they don’t get caught by Nemo’s AC I think he can, should and will ignore them as far as reaction with ground forces is concerned…
Another interesting issue raised by Alfred is the Maledives. I will try to build up the base there, Addu Atoll, if Nemo should allow me to do so. This base is what the Indian Division about to arrive in two weeks is earmarked for and can be made even stronger if necessary. I think I can live with the risk of being overwhelmed and losing the unit there.
Not sure yet whether I should wait until I can place all reinforcements at once or start reinforcing at once.
More info on other theatres to follow.
Hartwig
RE: Ship losses
This post relates to Russia. First, the map:
Next, information on troops at critical points:
Borzya: 1570 AV (Allied) vs 3900 AV (Jap), LVL 9 forts
Kuysyshevka: 2450 AV (Allied) vs 2450AV (Jap) (72 units ?!?); 200 Res., LVL 9 forts
68,23: 1650AV (Allied) vs 743 AV (Jap)
68,22: 70AV (Allied) vs 480 AV (Jap)
A major problem on this map at present is a high risk of supply lines being cut. Nemo has successfully sucked almost every unit to the defense of Kuysyshevka. If he paradrops into the supply line, in the current situation I have only one mobile combat unit at my disposal. I will most likely change that by pulling a rifle division out of Borzya. Also, I think about stopping the push towards Kuysyshevka which is presently stuck at 68,23. I do not think I can create a breakthrough to that base and believe the troops may be of better use at Skovorodino.
Situation in the air is much better in Russia than in India. There could be more level bombers, but I have a couple of transport squadrons available, many dive bombers and –best of all- close to 200 fighters – more than half of these are Mig3. Let’s see whether I manage to catch an airstrike or two of Nemo's or whether he will wipe me out of the skies….
Hartwig
Next, information on troops at critical points:
Borzya: 1570 AV (Allied) vs 3900 AV (Jap), LVL 9 forts
Kuysyshevka: 2450 AV (Allied) vs 2450AV (Jap) (72 units ?!?); 200 Res., LVL 9 forts
68,23: 1650AV (Allied) vs 743 AV (Jap)
68,22: 70AV (Allied) vs 480 AV (Jap)
A major problem on this map at present is a high risk of supply lines being cut. Nemo has successfully sucked almost every unit to the defense of Kuysyshevka. If he paradrops into the supply line, in the current situation I have only one mobile combat unit at my disposal. I will most likely change that by pulling a rifle division out of Borzya. Also, I think about stopping the push towards Kuysyshevka which is presently stuck at 68,23. I do not think I can create a breakthrough to that base and believe the troops may be of better use at Skovorodino.
Situation in the air is much better in Russia than in India. There could be more level bombers, but I have a couple of transport squadrons available, many dive bombers and –best of all- close to 200 fighters – more than half of these are Mig3. Let’s see whether I manage to catch an airstrike or two of Nemo's or whether he will wipe me out of the skies….
Hartwig
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Hornblower
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RE: Ship losses
ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow
This is a bit out of sequence, but may be important as background information, thus I will show it here:
This is part of the reason why running a counterinvasion here is not quite free of problems even though we have a few Marine fighter units on the map which might be used to make use of the effects of a massive CAP (>200 Wildcats) to cover this type of op.
Hartwig
OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Retaking Lahaina
Other places on the map:
I’ll just comment on these places shortly (want to get my first turn finally done, which will probably take me the short contingent of WitP playing time two more days or so), more detail will follow for further turns.
China:
I have a number of units in the southeast that are virtually without supply. There is little supply all over China, but I think I should try to organize a retreat from this area.
NZ:
I think NZ is well prepared for a potential Japanese invasion unless this is yet another truly massive strike. Even that one may be delayed, as fort levels are well developed at many bases. Supply levels could be higher, but when would I say something different ?
I don’t know how many major ops Japan can run simultaneously in this mod (estimates are welcome), but I don’t think pouring more troops there is a good idea, even though (or maybe because) in our e-mail communication Nemo has mentioned it more than once in one breath with India and Russia. But I do not think I will let “information” from this source influence my decisions.
I need units to as dust throw into Nemo’s gear and I just don’t think that can be done statically…
Northern Oz / DEI:
Not sure whether I did mention that Nippon owns Exmouth. It’s a level 2 AF now. I’ll check whether I can interfere with its buildup; the base is in range of most of the 4E bombers I got on the map right now. I believe I lack surface units for a successful counterinvasion, but need to check that systematically. In general, the lack of cruisers on the map does hurt me a lot; and this is not really going to be remedied any time soon.
The other bases may be taken – partly even easily, but I am not going to reinforce them. On the contrary – specifically Darwin may be weakened, as I am going to move a bit around into DEI. I think this is a mistake and such Ops cannot be successful, because Nemo left the Allied in control of this region intentionally, but I believe the consequences of this mistake are very limited consequences and want Nemo to believe I’m prone to make mistakes. I don’t think he should get a good estimate of his opponent, thus I’ll occasionally try to play even worse than I would do anyway occasionally with limited stakes [:D].
Western Oz/Perth area:
Perth is a formidable fortress, but the potentially supporting bases could still need a bit of reinforcement. At present, I will add only limited amounts of troops at these places, possibly only by way of redistributing forces locally, mainly to make sure there will be no paradrops.
Southern/Eastern Oz:
I am quite content with the level of readiness for the defense of this region as well; not sure whether I will reinforce it a lot. As I said above, I need units in order to go for a number of quick jabs at Nemo to spoil his phasing.
Tomorrow I will finish my little presentation of ideas proceeding my first turn, specifically by talking about ideas for the future, based on which I will distribute the few forces that I have at my disposal right now. Then, we can move forward on our way.
Hartwig
I’ll just comment on these places shortly (want to get my first turn finally done, which will probably take me the short contingent of WitP playing time two more days or so), more detail will follow for further turns.
China:
I have a number of units in the southeast that are virtually without supply. There is little supply all over China, but I think I should try to organize a retreat from this area.
NZ:
I think NZ is well prepared for a potential Japanese invasion unless this is yet another truly massive strike. Even that one may be delayed, as fort levels are well developed at many bases. Supply levels could be higher, but when would I say something different ?
I don’t know how many major ops Japan can run simultaneously in this mod (estimates are welcome), but I don’t think pouring more troops there is a good idea, even though (or maybe because) in our e-mail communication Nemo has mentioned it more than once in one breath with India and Russia. But I do not think I will let “information” from this source influence my decisions.
I need units to as dust throw into Nemo’s gear and I just don’t think that can be done statically…
Northern Oz / DEI:
Not sure whether I did mention that Nippon owns Exmouth. It’s a level 2 AF now. I’ll check whether I can interfere with its buildup; the base is in range of most of the 4E bombers I got on the map right now. I believe I lack surface units for a successful counterinvasion, but need to check that systematically. In general, the lack of cruisers on the map does hurt me a lot; and this is not really going to be remedied any time soon.
The other bases may be taken – partly even easily, but I am not going to reinforce them. On the contrary – specifically Darwin may be weakened, as I am going to move a bit around into DEI. I think this is a mistake and such Ops cannot be successful, because Nemo left the Allied in control of this region intentionally, but I believe the consequences of this mistake are very limited consequences and want Nemo to believe I’m prone to make mistakes. I don’t think he should get a good estimate of his opponent, thus I’ll occasionally try to play even worse than I would do anyway occasionally with limited stakes [:D].
Western Oz/Perth area:
Perth is a formidable fortress, but the potentially supporting bases could still need a bit of reinforcement. At present, I will add only limited amounts of troops at these places, possibly only by way of redistributing forces locally, mainly to make sure there will be no paradrops.
Southern/Eastern Oz:
I am quite content with the level of readiness for the defense of this region as well; not sure whether I will reinforce it a lot. As I said above, I need units in order to go for a number of quick jabs at Nemo to spoil his phasing.
Tomorrow I will finish my little presentation of ideas proceeding my first turn, specifically by talking about ideas for the future, based on which I will distribute the few forces that I have at my disposal right now. Then, we can move forward on our way.
Hartwig
Re:Retaking Lahaina
Hornblower,
my thoughts exactly when I had fired up the tracker (thanks to the great guys who provided this tool which hopefully will also work with AE, hint hint) to get a bit detailed info on the situation from which I was to pick the game up and saw this list.
There is hardly a CA left on the map. Not even big bad lucky Boise survived the carnage. I guess I will not be able to work with ideal TF compositions for a while[8D].
Hartwig
ORIGINAL: Hornblower
OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my thoughts exactly when I had fired up the tracker (thanks to the great guys who provided this tool which hopefully will also work with AE, hint hint) to get a bit detailed info on the situation from which I was to pick the game up and saw this list.
There is hardly a CA left on the map. Not even big bad lucky Boise survived the carnage. I guess I will not be able to work with ideal TF compositions for a while[8D].
Hartwig
RE: Re:Retaking Lahaina
Sorry for the bad state of affairs I left you with. I really should have studied his mod before firing off. But once the game commenced, I really looked it over in depth.
I had no idea that in his mod he would have about 20 div's to put into play anywhere on the map. That really hurt, plus all the extra CV's etc.
India, well he threw the kitchen sink and smashed anything I threw in his way. Those huge armor brigades he has really destroy units during pursuit. FYI.......he destroyed the full strength 18th UK Div in 3 days of pursuit. From 300+AV down to 30 in 3 days. I was prepared for armor reg.....ala witp mod's etc......not mini armor div's everywhere. His tactic of bombing just to prevent fort building stalls any defense (pet peeve of mine that has always been there since release).
Russia, I had Kuyshvka fort 9 and heavy forces there, he went overland completely undetected by mass recon planes and well, the mass airlift began back to Skovdo. Kind of hard to stop 8000+ AV.
Exmouth I should have counter invaded right off the get go. But since we went completely out of synch first turn (and this is the first and only time I have ever been out of synch) and nothing would recover it, I just stopped watching the combat replay's. Could not trust anything in it. So, missed his first invasion of it, and only really noticed it about the time it hit level 1. Let us just say it was a shock.
I have saved as many units from across the map as I could. He has about 2500AV down at Noumea, but really do not think he will make a play for NZ......He knows I have been fortifying it like crazy and he will not be able to really take the place. At least not with just the troops from Noumea. I saved 2 1/2 PI divs from the PI......plus some Dutch troops. These are in Perth and Timor.
The naval losses are from PH, the fleeing of PH, the PI and all the first turn port attacks he did. Every allied port was hit turn 1 Singapore, Manila, PH and Russia. He caught alot of the RN fleeing Columbo area and the rest of Southern India.
I have tried to build up troops and supplies anywhere he cannot easily reach or take.
I will be watching to see if you can turn this around. I wish I could have continued, but a pending divorce has basically sucked the life from me.
I had no idea that in his mod he would have about 20 div's to put into play anywhere on the map. That really hurt, plus all the extra CV's etc.
India, well he threw the kitchen sink and smashed anything I threw in his way. Those huge armor brigades he has really destroy units during pursuit. FYI.......he destroyed the full strength 18th UK Div in 3 days of pursuit. From 300+AV down to 30 in 3 days. I was prepared for armor reg.....ala witp mod's etc......not mini armor div's everywhere. His tactic of bombing just to prevent fort building stalls any defense (pet peeve of mine that has always been there since release).
Russia, I had Kuyshvka fort 9 and heavy forces there, he went overland completely undetected by mass recon planes and well, the mass airlift began back to Skovdo. Kind of hard to stop 8000+ AV.
Exmouth I should have counter invaded right off the get go. But since we went completely out of synch first turn (and this is the first and only time I have ever been out of synch) and nothing would recover it, I just stopped watching the combat replay's. Could not trust anything in it. So, missed his first invasion of it, and only really noticed it about the time it hit level 1. Let us just say it was a shock.
I have saved as many units from across the map as I could. He has about 2500AV down at Noumea, but really do not think he will make a play for NZ......He knows I have been fortifying it like crazy and he will not be able to really take the place. At least not with just the troops from Noumea. I saved 2 1/2 PI divs from the PI......plus some Dutch troops. These are in Perth and Timor.
The naval losses are from PH, the fleeing of PH, the PI and all the first turn port attacks he did. Every allied port was hit turn 1 Singapore, Manila, PH and Russia. He caught alot of the RN fleeing Columbo area and the rest of Southern India.
I have tried to build up troops and supplies anywhere he cannot easily reach or take.
I will be watching to see if you can turn this around. I wish I could have continued, but a pending divorce has basically sucked the life from me.
RE: Re:Retaking Lahaina
From the Pacific coast up to and including Skovorodino along the Amur, every Soviet base is expendable. Even though the Japanese harvest of raw materials and industry will be huge, based on your current position in eastern Siberia, you have no choice but to retreat. Here are a few salient points for you to consider.
(1) Under no circumstances can Borzya be allowed to fall to the enemy. Lose Borzya and all Soviet troops along the Trans-Siberian railway to its east are lost.
(2) Nemo will be very happy to see strong Soviet garrisons "checking" his advance along the Trans-Siberian because they will be easily rounded up when Borzya falls.
(3) You are correct to stop the Kuyshsyevka relief column - those troops are needed in Borzya.
(4) Immediately start air lifting troops out of Kuyshsyevka. At Kuyshsyevka, you currently have at least 1500 AV surplus to defensive requirements. Eventually the cadres left in Kuyshsyevka will have to attempt a breakout by themselves to Skovorodino.
(5) Station only fighters at Kuyshsyevka to cover your air transports evacuating troops from that base.
(6) From your current position, a significant Allied achievement in Siberia will be to hold (a) Borzya and the base to its east (and immediately to the west of Skovorindo) pinning down huge Japanese forces, and (b) Madagan and Petroplavotsk (sp) which two bases provide a constant threat to the Japanese position in and SLOC to the Kuriles/Aleutians. Whilst it is tempting to view Sovetskaya Gavan, Nikolaevsk nu Amur and Okha as valuable, in your present situation they are not. You should thin out their defenders and relocate them to the other two locations. The Kamshatka Pensinsula in Allied hands, if well defended and supplied will force Nemo to keep assets in theatre, particuarly if there is a complementary allied offensive from Alaska, which he would otherwise prefer to use elsewhere.
(7) Check to see when the next sizeable Japanese para unit is due to arrive. Until then, it is unlikely that Nemo could spare substantial forces to para drop to cut the Trans-Siberian Railway. Accordingly your one mobile unit will probably suffice to destroy his favourite tactic of para dropping 6 squads. Also, check your HRs - you may find that he can only para drop on bases, not on non base hexes. Under no circumstances move out a rifle division out of Borzya - you are already weaker there and visually one can see additional strong enemy forces are moving to Borzya.
(8) Do not waste your IL-2 Shturmoviks operating against enemy bases (or ground units located in enemy bases). You will suffer appalling loses to enemy CAP and fritter away both pilots and your fighter airframes. Your fighters are needed to provide defensive air cover over your own bases and protect air transport evacuations(note point 5 above). A possible use of IL-2 is CAS against enemy units on the Trans-Siberian Railway one hex out of Skovorodino where there may be minimal/no enemy LRCAP (and if there is, he will suffer increased operational losses to both pilots and airframes.
(9) Check your Soviet theatre HRs. As important as maintaining Borzya is, and I cannot emphasise it too much, your HRs may well show that the Russian bear retains its claws as long as the army can fall back on to Irkutsk. It is the destruction of the Soviet field army, not the loss of the Siberian resources and industry, which ultimately constitutes an Allied disaster of the highest magnitude.
Alfred
(1) Under no circumstances can Borzya be allowed to fall to the enemy. Lose Borzya and all Soviet troops along the Trans-Siberian railway to its east are lost.
(2) Nemo will be very happy to see strong Soviet garrisons "checking" his advance along the Trans-Siberian because they will be easily rounded up when Borzya falls.
(3) You are correct to stop the Kuyshsyevka relief column - those troops are needed in Borzya.
(4) Immediately start air lifting troops out of Kuyshsyevka. At Kuyshsyevka, you currently have at least 1500 AV surplus to defensive requirements. Eventually the cadres left in Kuyshsyevka will have to attempt a breakout by themselves to Skovorodino.
(5) Station only fighters at Kuyshsyevka to cover your air transports evacuating troops from that base.
(6) From your current position, a significant Allied achievement in Siberia will be to hold (a) Borzya and the base to its east (and immediately to the west of Skovorindo) pinning down huge Japanese forces, and (b) Madagan and Petroplavotsk (sp) which two bases provide a constant threat to the Japanese position in and SLOC to the Kuriles/Aleutians. Whilst it is tempting to view Sovetskaya Gavan, Nikolaevsk nu Amur and Okha as valuable, in your present situation they are not. You should thin out their defenders and relocate them to the other two locations. The Kamshatka Pensinsula in Allied hands, if well defended and supplied will force Nemo to keep assets in theatre, particuarly if there is a complementary allied offensive from Alaska, which he would otherwise prefer to use elsewhere.
(7) Check to see when the next sizeable Japanese para unit is due to arrive. Until then, it is unlikely that Nemo could spare substantial forces to para drop to cut the Trans-Siberian Railway. Accordingly your one mobile unit will probably suffice to destroy his favourite tactic of para dropping 6 squads. Also, check your HRs - you may find that he can only para drop on bases, not on non base hexes. Under no circumstances move out a rifle division out of Borzya - you are already weaker there and visually one can see additional strong enemy forces are moving to Borzya.
(8) Do not waste your IL-2 Shturmoviks operating against enemy bases (or ground units located in enemy bases). You will suffer appalling loses to enemy CAP and fritter away both pilots and your fighter airframes. Your fighters are needed to provide defensive air cover over your own bases and protect air transport evacuations(note point 5 above). A possible use of IL-2 is CAS against enemy units on the Trans-Siberian Railway one hex out of Skovorodino where there may be minimal/no enemy LRCAP (and if there is, he will suffer increased operational losses to both pilots and airframes.
(9) Check your Soviet theatre HRs. As important as maintaining Borzya is, and I cannot emphasise it too much, your HRs may well show that the Russian bear retains its claws as long as the army can fall back on to Irkutsk. It is the destruction of the Soviet field army, not the loss of the Siberian resources and industry, which ultimately constitutes an Allied disaster of the highest magnitude.
Alfred