2-3 of those units at Exmouth are engineers.......he also has an Ind Brigade there. Figure 300AV to be safe.
I know the 6th and 7th Aus Div's are up north. One in Darwin and the other at or near Perth. He has fighters and some Kates there. You can shift the Misquito's up to the base north of Perth and LRCAP your invasion TF. They do a very good job on sweeps too. I was getting 2-3 to 1 with them.
Gutted - Hartwig (Allied) vs Nemo (Japan)
Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
RE: Gutted - Hartwig (Allied) vs Nemo (Japan)
hartwig.modrow,
A few more general comments focussing on issues raised by yourself and other posters.
(1) I am aware of Soviet, German and Italian pre 1941 para unit developments. I am not opposed to the use of Japanese paras. I am not arguing that Soviet paras should be present. I am not arguing for their to be no OOB "disbalance", as you refer to it. What I am opposed to is the use by either side, of paradrops on non base/dot hexes, particularly when so few squads are dropped. It is simply not appropriate both for this mod and the WITP game engine. I am certain you do not need me to elaborate on why dropping 6 (or fewer) Japanese squads on a non base/dot hex makes the Allied position unplayable in 1942 (and perhaps even 1943). Restricting paradrops only to bases or beaches does not adversely impact at all upon your desired "disbalance" or interfere with you learning how to play WITP better.
(2) You have not commented on whether sub borne invasions onto bases or beaches are now allowed. There is no justification for them to be banned but para drops on any hex (not just bases or beaches) allowed. Why tolerate the inconsistency?
(3) In theory, your intention to draw away enemy reserves to region "Alpha" before commencing local Allied operations in distant region "Bravo", is correct. Unfortunately, in view of firstly your available resources, secondly the enduring Japanese initiative, and thirdly the game engine, I suspect you are going to make a serious mistake in the praxis. Only if the delay between the commencement of Allied operations in regions Alpha and Bravo is 2-3 days max, can such a sequential approach potentially succeed. In practical terms you would be better off to commence Allied local offensives at Alpha, Bravo, Charlie (and if possible Delta) simultaneously for the following reasons.
(a) Unlike real life, Nemo can in 2 days or less switch from one extremity of the Empire to the other extremity, sufficient air assets (and air transport LCUs) to defeat each local Allied offensive. If you were to have a substantial delay between Alpha and Bravo, it is most unlikely that Alpha would have sufficient staying power to pin down enemy forces and prevent their transfer to meet Bravo at the critical time.
(b) You lack both the resources and time for their secret accumulation to make any of the Allied thrusts at Alpha, Bravo, Charlie (and Delta) strong. You need luck, stealth, a good maskirovka etc for any success. By striking simultaneously, most Allied operations will be defeated but the possibility arises that you may strike where the enemy is weak and lacks sufficient uncommitted reserves.
(c) Launching Alpha, Bravo, Charlie (and Delta) simultaneously will force the enemy to make choices. How and where the enemy reacts will provide the Allies with invaluable intel when formulating your 1943/44 plans.
(4) I am not certain I quite understand your difficulty regarding ZOCs and withdrawing the Madras garrison to festung Calcutta. Are you saying that if you give the Madras garrison another Allied base (say Diamond Harbour) as its march destination, the units do not comply with the order?
(5) Are you certain that the Delhi units will march to festung Calcutta quicker than to Karachi. If they could get to Karachi before the enemy enters/captures Karachi, then the following Allied benefits may arise.
(a) The siege of Karachi would take longer, thus delaying the enemy reduction of festung Calcutta and spreads out the consumption of Allied supplies.
(b) It is both much easier and more beneficial to evacuate by sub Allied cadres out of Karachi than it is from the Bengali ports. The turn around time to/from Aden is considerably shorter for your greatly depleted sub fleet, it is a more efficacious use of Allied short range subs, and in order for the enemy to interdict the evacuation they would need to station forces at an extremity of the Empire away perhaps from Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta (see point 3 above)
(c) Retreating the Delhi garrison to festung Calcutta, instead of Karachi, may initially increase the Allied AV in the festung but can the extra mouths in the festung be fed and the AV consequently maintained?
(6) Following on from point (5)(c) above, have you investigated the viability of using Soviet air transports, to ferry out SEAC units from festung Calcutta/Burma (if necessary via a Chinese base) to the well supplied Irkutsk. Imagine Nemo's surprise to find fully equipped SEAC units marching into Mongolia to flank the Japanese, or bolstering the Borzay and Trans-Siberian Railway defence lines. Better to keep SEAC units alive somewhere than for them to ultimately die in the festung.
(7) The way to address the Exmouth problem is to concentrate your entire B-19 fleet in Perth (and elsewhere in Australia where logistics allow) and then, in one stroke (think of Hamburg July 1943) unleash them (together with shorter range B-17 flying at max altitude from Northern Australia bases) against Exmouth's airbase and then maintain the suppression. Even if you don't feel you have sufficient assets to counter invade (you can always march overland - in any case I think you probably do have sufficient LCU assets if you combine land/sea/air operations), you can turn this aerial blockade into a maskirovka operation to hide Alpha, Bravo, Charlie and Delta of point 3 above.
Just a few more thoughts for your assessment.
Alfred
A few more general comments focussing on issues raised by yourself and other posters.
(1) I am aware of Soviet, German and Italian pre 1941 para unit developments. I am not opposed to the use of Japanese paras. I am not arguing that Soviet paras should be present. I am not arguing for their to be no OOB "disbalance", as you refer to it. What I am opposed to is the use by either side, of paradrops on non base/dot hexes, particularly when so few squads are dropped. It is simply not appropriate both for this mod and the WITP game engine. I am certain you do not need me to elaborate on why dropping 6 (or fewer) Japanese squads on a non base/dot hex makes the Allied position unplayable in 1942 (and perhaps even 1943). Restricting paradrops only to bases or beaches does not adversely impact at all upon your desired "disbalance" or interfere with you learning how to play WITP better.
(2) You have not commented on whether sub borne invasions onto bases or beaches are now allowed. There is no justification for them to be banned but para drops on any hex (not just bases or beaches) allowed. Why tolerate the inconsistency?
(3) In theory, your intention to draw away enemy reserves to region "Alpha" before commencing local Allied operations in distant region "Bravo", is correct. Unfortunately, in view of firstly your available resources, secondly the enduring Japanese initiative, and thirdly the game engine, I suspect you are going to make a serious mistake in the praxis. Only if the delay between the commencement of Allied operations in regions Alpha and Bravo is 2-3 days max, can such a sequential approach potentially succeed. In practical terms you would be better off to commence Allied local offensives at Alpha, Bravo, Charlie (and if possible Delta) simultaneously for the following reasons.
(a) Unlike real life, Nemo can in 2 days or less switch from one extremity of the Empire to the other extremity, sufficient air assets (and air transport LCUs) to defeat each local Allied offensive. If you were to have a substantial delay between Alpha and Bravo, it is most unlikely that Alpha would have sufficient staying power to pin down enemy forces and prevent their transfer to meet Bravo at the critical time.
(b) You lack both the resources and time for their secret accumulation to make any of the Allied thrusts at Alpha, Bravo, Charlie (and Delta) strong. You need luck, stealth, a good maskirovka etc for any success. By striking simultaneously, most Allied operations will be defeated but the possibility arises that you may strike where the enemy is weak and lacks sufficient uncommitted reserves.
(c) Launching Alpha, Bravo, Charlie (and Delta) simultaneously will force the enemy to make choices. How and where the enemy reacts will provide the Allies with invaluable intel when formulating your 1943/44 plans.
(4) I am not certain I quite understand your difficulty regarding ZOCs and withdrawing the Madras garrison to festung Calcutta. Are you saying that if you give the Madras garrison another Allied base (say Diamond Harbour) as its march destination, the units do not comply with the order?
(5) Are you certain that the Delhi units will march to festung Calcutta quicker than to Karachi. If they could get to Karachi before the enemy enters/captures Karachi, then the following Allied benefits may arise.
(a) The siege of Karachi would take longer, thus delaying the enemy reduction of festung Calcutta and spreads out the consumption of Allied supplies.
(b) It is both much easier and more beneficial to evacuate by sub Allied cadres out of Karachi than it is from the Bengali ports. The turn around time to/from Aden is considerably shorter for your greatly depleted sub fleet, it is a more efficacious use of Allied short range subs, and in order for the enemy to interdict the evacuation they would need to station forces at an extremity of the Empire away perhaps from Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta (see point 3 above)
(c) Retreating the Delhi garrison to festung Calcutta, instead of Karachi, may initially increase the Allied AV in the festung but can the extra mouths in the festung be fed and the AV consequently maintained?
(6) Following on from point (5)(c) above, have you investigated the viability of using Soviet air transports, to ferry out SEAC units from festung Calcutta/Burma (if necessary via a Chinese base) to the well supplied Irkutsk. Imagine Nemo's surprise to find fully equipped SEAC units marching into Mongolia to flank the Japanese, or bolstering the Borzay and Trans-Siberian Railway defence lines. Better to keep SEAC units alive somewhere than for them to ultimately die in the festung.
(7) The way to address the Exmouth problem is to concentrate your entire B-19 fleet in Perth (and elsewhere in Australia where logistics allow) and then, in one stroke (think of Hamburg July 1943) unleash them (together with shorter range B-17 flying at max altitude from Northern Australia bases) against Exmouth's airbase and then maintain the suppression. Even if you don't feel you have sufficient assets to counter invade (you can always march overland - in any case I think you probably do have sufficient LCU assets if you combine land/sea/air operations), you can turn this aerial blockade into a maskirovka operation to hide Alpha, Bravo, Charlie and Delta of point 3 above.
Just a few more thoughts for your assessment.
Alfred
RE: Gutted - Hartwig (Allied) vs Nemo (Japan)
Alfred,
Thanks again for your frequent and helpful posts. Very stimulating…
But first a side note to everyone reading: I received the password for the Allied via Nemo, thus operational security is not really an issue I consider in this thread.
I have asked Nemo to clarify re. non-base drops. I would discuss the inconsistency re. sub invasions and insist on on-base paradrops only if I would start a new game from scratch. But I am taking over, thus I think redefinition of the rules is not appropriate.
Re. phasing of operations:
I guess we may have to distinguish between different cases here. I agree at once that ops must be running in parallel if possible. At the same time, we need to be aware of what is possible at which point of time.
Right now, almost instantaneously, apart from trying to make the war in India and Russia more complicated / lasting to tie as many enemy units there as possible, there are two “real” operations I can run: a) have a go at Exmouth and b) a quick start at doing things in Alaska.
Both of these can be performed in two variants: one quick and dirty, the other one more systematic. Variant 2 will take about two weeks before action can start. I would prefer a quick start – especially in view of Exmouth AF being increased and the risks of CVs showing up when my invasion TFs are around- and thus will most likely go for quick and dirty.
There are also two additional areas of activity: southern DEI (very small, fragile and a mistake to do, but I want to look like I swallow the bait dangled there by Nemo) and harassing the west coast of India. None of these will lead to substantial success, but generate (limited and unsubstantial) losses for me. Specifically for India, I hope it may be possible to get Nemo used to expecting any TF coming out of the shipping channel from Aden with direction to India is an unsubstantial harassment action only and once his reaction is slackening conjure up something substantial. These TFs will carry fragmented units (form a TF – load the unit – send them in piecemeal). I might also experiment with ghost TF’s in CentPac.
Of the abovementioned “real” operations, I think that only Alaska can be turned into a strategic op, a long-term attack vector. If you or someone else believes something different, please let me know. The situation is different on the stock map because due to the bad or missing roads in this map I think bases like Derby are dependent on convoys coming in. Alfred has correctly stressed the importance of Exmouth, but I think the attack ends right there.
Unfortunately, I believe that it will take a considerable amount of time to move assets to the South Pacific so that they can strike and build up bases there sufficiently to allow such strikes for earnest and be able to open a real front there. I cannot wait that long for an Aleutian campaign, because of the winter rules which will stop me cold. Therefore, I hope to be able to feint towards New Caledonia by the time I do subsequent and systematic steps up north.
Further opportunities to strike will depend on what’s next on Nemo’s menu (NZ or OZ).
Re. India:
Karachi:
I do not believe Festung Karachi is an option – it would have been my first choice due to the supply source there. But there is a stack of 14 japanese units 2 hexes away at Malir. Karachi is defended by 1 intact Indian brigade, remnants of 254 tank brigade and remnants of 9th RDH cavalry – those remnants have a combined AV of 30 or so. The rest of the units at Karachi is AA and Arty. Forts are LVL 5, building automatically suspended because AF and port need repairs. This is not going to last long if Nemo decides to come. Shortest route to Karachi from Delhi is 11 hexes, but it is blocked around Jaipur (some 40000 troops according to cursor intel) and the stack we were talking about earlier. The detour is considerably longer and also blocked at Malir. Any movement on Karachi would mean assuming that one can overcome this stack with significantly less than 1000 AV, part of which very low morale units.
You mention a nice idea, the air bridge to Irkutsk, alas it is not possible. My transports have a max range of 7 hexes and there is a gap which is wider. Thus, most of those SEAC units are to die; I may only have a chance to decide where. If it was possible, the idea would be raise a question of priority – I need to get as many troops out of southern Russia as possible as quickly as possible as well. Small cadres only won't suffice if I want to avoid being flanked after all.
You raise the issue of supplies in the fortress hexes. Calcutta has more supplies than any of the other potential fortresses on the map of India. If I concentrate in Calcutta all the units I want to bring there, judging from present supply levels I would start with >10 times the amount of supply needed if I add the needs now displayed for the single units. This number rises when the units actually fight, of course, and supply will be destroyed by air attacks. In addition, I may be able to use air force assets down there for a while and may have a chance to move them back towards Russia to keep them in the fight – none of the other bases offers that possibility.
As it stands, I not even sure whether I will manage to overcome the 4 units at Lucknow which may intervene with a march to Calcutta. But staying at Festung Delhi would mean that we are changing to a siege war in the next few turns, leaving freedom to operate only to Nemo and allowing him to crack one of the fortresses after the other with overwhelming forces. There is a nice illustration of the advantages of such an approach over parallel operations which Nemo provided in John 3rd and Q-Balls 2x2 AAR. The theater would become “simple” (i.e. no longer demanding thought, but just following a standard procedure) for Nemo very quickly. I would prefer a “complicated” theater, meaning mobile warfare including the chance of making mistakes (though I am more likely to produce those than he is).
Madras:
Even IF I could move these units, I probably would get stopped at Cuttack. Nemo’s AV there is likely too high, plus he can reinforce from the 17 unit stack at Jamshedpur (sp?) if need be. I won’t be able to block such a reinforcement with the forces I have available.
However, I believe that the units at Madras are currently immobilized. Since one of the patches, there is a rule that you cannot enter a hex which is under enemy control (which is the case if the an enemy unit has been the last to pass through that hex) from a disputed or enemy hex. The idea behind this rule is that one should not be able to walk through a frontline.
I am aware that setting the unit’s destination to a base hex rather than another hex stops its being reset to the starting point of the walk by a bombardment. I am not aware that this also overrides the immobilization by ZOC. I will try to test it and let you know, but the care Nemo has applied in placing his “J” signs all over the map makes me fear that I am correct.
I will try to get freedom to move for the unist in Festung Madras, but that plan may fail.
Re. Australia:
Walking to Exmouth is not an option – no road there on the map I’m playing on, thus long time to get there (I guess 200+ days from the closest Allied base) plus big deductions for the supply flow, thus I will lose fighting power. Has to be amphibious + air strikes.
Your air strike advice is good. I have most essential assets almost in place already. Might go for another mistake strike with one B19 unit which is in Alaska right now first, though - being fully aware that they shoudl be used concnetrated. What is the minimum AF size I need for the B19 ?
I don’t have a reasonable number of transports available in northern Oz (maybe 4 or 5 AK) to make use of the troops which are presently there or move them to places where they may prove more useful. I might be able to get enough AV together from Perth (7th Aussie division, an Australian brigade, some 180 AV of a Philippine division, and constablery regiment. The first and last of these are prepped to a reasonable extent for Exmouth already). Note that this most likely means that Perth is gone if the op fails, which it will if Nemo’s CVs show up. But it may be worth the risk. Let me know what you think.
Thanks again
Hartwig
Thanks again for your frequent and helpful posts. Very stimulating…
But first a side note to everyone reading: I received the password for the Allied via Nemo, thus operational security is not really an issue I consider in this thread.
I have asked Nemo to clarify re. non-base drops. I would discuss the inconsistency re. sub invasions and insist on on-base paradrops only if I would start a new game from scratch. But I am taking over, thus I think redefinition of the rules is not appropriate.
Re. phasing of operations:
I guess we may have to distinguish between different cases here. I agree at once that ops must be running in parallel if possible. At the same time, we need to be aware of what is possible at which point of time.
Right now, almost instantaneously, apart from trying to make the war in India and Russia more complicated / lasting to tie as many enemy units there as possible, there are two “real” operations I can run: a) have a go at Exmouth and b) a quick start at doing things in Alaska.
Both of these can be performed in two variants: one quick and dirty, the other one more systematic. Variant 2 will take about two weeks before action can start. I would prefer a quick start – especially in view of Exmouth AF being increased and the risks of CVs showing up when my invasion TFs are around- and thus will most likely go for quick and dirty.
There are also two additional areas of activity: southern DEI (very small, fragile and a mistake to do, but I want to look like I swallow the bait dangled there by Nemo) and harassing the west coast of India. None of these will lead to substantial success, but generate (limited and unsubstantial) losses for me. Specifically for India, I hope it may be possible to get Nemo used to expecting any TF coming out of the shipping channel from Aden with direction to India is an unsubstantial harassment action only and once his reaction is slackening conjure up something substantial. These TFs will carry fragmented units (form a TF – load the unit – send them in piecemeal). I might also experiment with ghost TF’s in CentPac.
Of the abovementioned “real” operations, I think that only Alaska can be turned into a strategic op, a long-term attack vector. If you or someone else believes something different, please let me know. The situation is different on the stock map because due to the bad or missing roads in this map I think bases like Derby are dependent on convoys coming in. Alfred has correctly stressed the importance of Exmouth, but I think the attack ends right there.
Unfortunately, I believe that it will take a considerable amount of time to move assets to the South Pacific so that they can strike and build up bases there sufficiently to allow such strikes for earnest and be able to open a real front there. I cannot wait that long for an Aleutian campaign, because of the winter rules which will stop me cold. Therefore, I hope to be able to feint towards New Caledonia by the time I do subsequent and systematic steps up north.
Further opportunities to strike will depend on what’s next on Nemo’s menu (NZ or OZ).
Re. India:
Karachi:
I do not believe Festung Karachi is an option – it would have been my first choice due to the supply source there. But there is a stack of 14 japanese units 2 hexes away at Malir. Karachi is defended by 1 intact Indian brigade, remnants of 254 tank brigade and remnants of 9th RDH cavalry – those remnants have a combined AV of 30 or so. The rest of the units at Karachi is AA and Arty. Forts are LVL 5, building automatically suspended because AF and port need repairs. This is not going to last long if Nemo decides to come. Shortest route to Karachi from Delhi is 11 hexes, but it is blocked around Jaipur (some 40000 troops according to cursor intel) and the stack we were talking about earlier. The detour is considerably longer and also blocked at Malir. Any movement on Karachi would mean assuming that one can overcome this stack with significantly less than 1000 AV, part of which very low morale units.
You mention a nice idea, the air bridge to Irkutsk, alas it is not possible. My transports have a max range of 7 hexes and there is a gap which is wider. Thus, most of those SEAC units are to die; I may only have a chance to decide where. If it was possible, the idea would be raise a question of priority – I need to get as many troops out of southern Russia as possible as quickly as possible as well. Small cadres only won't suffice if I want to avoid being flanked after all.
You raise the issue of supplies in the fortress hexes. Calcutta has more supplies than any of the other potential fortresses on the map of India. If I concentrate in Calcutta all the units I want to bring there, judging from present supply levels I would start with >10 times the amount of supply needed if I add the needs now displayed for the single units. This number rises when the units actually fight, of course, and supply will be destroyed by air attacks. In addition, I may be able to use air force assets down there for a while and may have a chance to move them back towards Russia to keep them in the fight – none of the other bases offers that possibility.
As it stands, I not even sure whether I will manage to overcome the 4 units at Lucknow which may intervene with a march to Calcutta. But staying at Festung Delhi would mean that we are changing to a siege war in the next few turns, leaving freedom to operate only to Nemo and allowing him to crack one of the fortresses after the other with overwhelming forces. There is a nice illustration of the advantages of such an approach over parallel operations which Nemo provided in John 3rd and Q-Balls 2x2 AAR. The theater would become “simple” (i.e. no longer demanding thought, but just following a standard procedure) for Nemo very quickly. I would prefer a “complicated” theater, meaning mobile warfare including the chance of making mistakes (though I am more likely to produce those than he is).
Madras:
Even IF I could move these units, I probably would get stopped at Cuttack. Nemo’s AV there is likely too high, plus he can reinforce from the 17 unit stack at Jamshedpur (sp?) if need be. I won’t be able to block such a reinforcement with the forces I have available.
However, I believe that the units at Madras are currently immobilized. Since one of the patches, there is a rule that you cannot enter a hex which is under enemy control (which is the case if the an enemy unit has been the last to pass through that hex) from a disputed or enemy hex. The idea behind this rule is that one should not be able to walk through a frontline.
I am aware that setting the unit’s destination to a base hex rather than another hex stops its being reset to the starting point of the walk by a bombardment. I am not aware that this also overrides the immobilization by ZOC. I will try to test it and let you know, but the care Nemo has applied in placing his “J” signs all over the map makes me fear that I am correct.
I will try to get freedom to move for the unist in Festung Madras, but that plan may fail.
Re. Australia:
Walking to Exmouth is not an option – no road there on the map I’m playing on, thus long time to get there (I guess 200+ days from the closest Allied base) plus big deductions for the supply flow, thus I will lose fighting power. Has to be amphibious + air strikes.
Your air strike advice is good. I have most essential assets almost in place already. Might go for another mistake strike with one B19 unit which is in Alaska right now first, though - being fully aware that they shoudl be used concnetrated. What is the minimum AF size I need for the B19 ?
I don’t have a reasonable number of transports available in northern Oz (maybe 4 or 5 AK) to make use of the troops which are presently there or move them to places where they may prove more useful. I might be able to get enough AV together from Perth (7th Aussie division, an Australian brigade, some 180 AV of a Philippine division, and constablery regiment. The first and last of these are prepped to a reasonable extent for Exmouth already). Note that this most likely means that Perth is gone if the op fails, which it will if Nemo’s CVs show up. But it may be worth the risk. Let me know what you think.
Thanks again
Hartwig
RE: Gutted - Hartwig (Allied) vs Nemo (Japan)
I was flying B19's from Brisbane without problems.......but would think level 5 and above. I was getting CTD's whenever I tried to transfer the B19's anywhere, so save before trying or risk having to repeat the turn.
Madras troops are trapped like rats......not even setting to march to another city works. ZOC rules have you trapped. Only way is to get a unit on land and free them by breaking ZOC. I tried repeatedly to get them to march to even Bombay when I held it and they refused to budge.
You will have to get them from Perth.......Nemo raided a few bases on the north coast of OZ and forced me to remove most shipping there or lose them.
On a side note.......Nemo has looked at the recent save with my password, so he does know what NZ looks like fort wise and everything else. Beware.
I was moving troops to Karachi and Nemo began his famous armor behind and cut off the ZOC so I pulled them back. Did not want a Madras repeat.
Madras troops are trapped like rats......not even setting to march to another city works. ZOC rules have you trapped. Only way is to get a unit on land and free them by breaking ZOC. I tried repeatedly to get them to march to even Bombay when I held it and they refused to budge.
You will have to get them from Perth.......Nemo raided a few bases on the north coast of OZ and forced me to remove most shipping there or lose them.
On a side note.......Nemo has looked at the recent save with my password, so he does know what NZ looks like fort wise and everything else. Beware.
I was moving troops to Karachi and Nemo began his famous armor behind and cut off the ZOC so I pulled them back. Did not want a Madras repeat.
RE: Gutted - Hartwig (Allied) vs Nemo (Japan)
HR clarification..........this was setup as a no holds barred gutter fight with extremely limited HR's.......
Para drops was setup to be 1 drop per unit per turn........I must not have been super clear........I did not want to see 20 troop para drops everywhere etc........was supposed to be whole unit sized drops........we never said wether out of base drops was allowed or not........he never did it to me, not once. I never called him on the 20 troop drops, but he neevr took a base like that, only to prevent me from moving.....
Sub invasions banned I asked for.........but he has been pretty good about mid game changes etc. We adjusted the line in Russia he could advance to once the air bug hit us because he feared me having a safe haven to bomb the HI from that he could not get to and stop. He cannot adavnce past Iritusk (?).
I say ask him for a modification to house rules........as I said before, he is very easy to get along with.
Para drops was setup to be 1 drop per unit per turn........I must not have been super clear........I did not want to see 20 troop para drops everywhere etc........was supposed to be whole unit sized drops........we never said wether out of base drops was allowed or not........he never did it to me, not once. I never called him on the 20 troop drops, but he neevr took a base like that, only to prevent me from moving.....
Sub invasions banned I asked for.........but he has been pretty good about mid game changes etc. We adjusted the line in Russia he could advance to once the air bug hit us because he feared me having a safe haven to bomb the HI from that he could not get to and stop. He cannot adavnce past Iritusk (?).
I say ask him for a modification to house rules........as I said before, he is very easy to get along with.
RE: Gutted - Hartwig (Allied) vs Nemo (Japan)
2nd ACR,
thanks for your appreciated input. The gutter war apporach is exactly one of the reasons why I did believe there may be paradrops to non-base hexes - in the short list of rules Nemo sent, there was none. It is clear now that there will be no paras landing outside of base hexes. But there will still be no sub invasions.
You are correct that Nemo is easy to get on with. I like our e-mail exchange a lot. Such a wealth of information to be found there for assessing each other's OODA cycles before trying to access each other's OODA cycles in the game.
Finally, I see an end of giving orders... Theaters to be dealt with are CONUSA, Panama and Aden - after that, I will finally send the turn back. It took me very long to find my way around the new map and stop always thinking of stock plane ranges. Quite a number of differences...
Thanks
Hartwig
thanks for your appreciated input. The gutter war apporach is exactly one of the reasons why I did believe there may be paradrops to non-base hexes - in the short list of rules Nemo sent, there was none. It is clear now that there will be no paras landing outside of base hexes. But there will still be no sub invasions.
You are correct that Nemo is easy to get on with. I like our e-mail exchange a lot. Such a wealth of information to be found there for assessing each other's OODA cycles before trying to access each other's OODA cycles in the game.
Finally, I see an end of giving orders... Theaters to be dealt with are CONUSA, Panama and Aden - after that, I will finally send the turn back. It took me very long to find my way around the new map and stop always thinking of stock plane ranges. Quite a number of differences...
Thanks
Hartwig
RE: Gutted - Hartwig (Allied) vs Nemo (Japan)
Ok, gentlemen - the game is afoot. I just sent my first turn to Nemo.
When trying to come up with orders especially for CONUSA I found out how few transports are freely available on the map. Long travelling times due to the loss specifically of Palmyra/Christmas Island and previous losses are the main reasons for this. This makes running ops in parallel plus keeping the supply flow going even more complicated...
There are two TFs that I just hope Nemo won't catch this turn... Not much of a chance to avoiding that risk.
I'll keep you posted on further developments in this war...
Hartwig
When trying to come up with orders especially for CONUSA I found out how few transports are freely available on the map. Long travelling times due to the loss specifically of Palmyra/Christmas Island and previous losses are the main reasons for this. This makes running ops in parallel plus keeping the supply flow going even more complicated...
There are two TFs that I just hope Nemo won't catch this turn... Not much of a chance to avoiding that risk.
I'll keep you posted on further developments in this war...
Hartwig
RE: Gutted - Hartwig (Allied) vs Nemo (Japan)
Even though I did not yet get a turn back from Nemo; I am trying to use the time to hatch further plans and study the new map and the units in this mod. This has raised a couple of issues, the first of which I want to discuss now:
One question I got is the exact meaning of the low capacity and high capacity ferry hexes. Ferry probably indicates that "land" movement can occur between the respective hexes. Capacity will surely influence speed. Can someone tell me how quick a unit will move using such a "ferry" connection ?
Furthermore, how quick will I travel along a "light railway" ?
Last not least: What about the "fish centre" hexes. Is this a joke, or are they good for anything ? If so what, and where are they (didn't find one as of yet).
Thanks for your help
Hartwig
One question I got is the exact meaning of the low capacity and high capacity ferry hexes. Ferry probably indicates that "land" movement can occur between the respective hexes. Capacity will surely influence speed. Can someone tell me how quick a unit will move using such a "ferry" connection ?
Furthermore, how quick will I travel along a "light railway" ?
Last not least: What about the "fish centre" hexes. Is this a joke, or are they good for anything ? If so what, and where are they (didn't find one as of yet).
Thanks for your help
Hartwig
Day 1 of the new allied CINCPAC
Gentlemen,
I received the turn from Nemo yesterday very late. Unfortunately, he has experienced computer problems, thus all I got was the game file – no .001, no log files-, because these got lost on Nemo’s drive. This is a pity, especially as I wanted to get a bit of info from a number of recon flights and have difficulties to track where the losses in the air come from and what my attacks may have achieved, but Nemo assures me that only few things happened anyway, and I can reconstruct a few things based on info from the map and using the esteemed tracker, which will hopefully also work with AE… [&o]
What did happen is that he managed to take Cuttack and destroy the units which were pinned down at that place. That is a pity, as I had plans to break their deadlock as well, but that’s just the way things are. [8|]
Other than that, I lost a couple of ships trying to evac cadres from Karachi. I had expected that, but rather than watching these ships being scuttled when Nemo takes the place I thought I should give using them a try. If nothing else, this way they will make Jap AC fly and thus cause op losses and give Nemo a reason to keep his guard up in this area.
More interesting was to see where I did not lose ships [8D], specifically in the centpac region. Of course, the access to those bases in the PH region which are still mine is guarded and an AK trying to sneak in supplies was hit, but I sent a few more TFs from suited starting positions away from PH for a little cruise through this region. I would like to see when they are noted and where the planes that are likely to interdict them may strike from. Nemo loves to work with concentrated, rather than diluted forces, thus he clearly can’t be everywhere on the map. I’m trying to find out where that may be and if these assignments are static.
In the air, Nemo lost 18 planes vs 22 Allied (8 of these destroyed on the ground). I tried to do a bit of city bombing in India and Russia which was not too successful, plus there was probably a raid on Effate (sp?), which was not completely intentional but may serve the purpose of feinting this is where I want to go. Other than that, I was mostly relocating my planes.
The disentanglement of forces in Russia is slow; the units made something like 30 miles this turn only. The same is valid for India. The next turn or two will decide whether I can give unification of forces a try in India or if this goal is out of reach. Also, if all goes well, tomorrow (game time) there will be two small surprises for either Nemo or me. I expect that the first series of serious (=sort of prepared) Ops can be started about two weeks game time from now.
That's about all I remember I wanted to say now. If there are specific questions or comments, let me know.
Thanks for your interest
Hartwig
I received the turn from Nemo yesterday very late. Unfortunately, he has experienced computer problems, thus all I got was the game file – no .001, no log files-, because these got lost on Nemo’s drive. This is a pity, especially as I wanted to get a bit of info from a number of recon flights and have difficulties to track where the losses in the air come from and what my attacks may have achieved, but Nemo assures me that only few things happened anyway, and I can reconstruct a few things based on info from the map and using the esteemed tracker, which will hopefully also work with AE… [&o]
What did happen is that he managed to take Cuttack and destroy the units which were pinned down at that place. That is a pity, as I had plans to break their deadlock as well, but that’s just the way things are. [8|]
Other than that, I lost a couple of ships trying to evac cadres from Karachi. I had expected that, but rather than watching these ships being scuttled when Nemo takes the place I thought I should give using them a try. If nothing else, this way they will make Jap AC fly and thus cause op losses and give Nemo a reason to keep his guard up in this area.
More interesting was to see where I did not lose ships [8D], specifically in the centpac region. Of course, the access to those bases in the PH region which are still mine is guarded and an AK trying to sneak in supplies was hit, but I sent a few more TFs from suited starting positions away from PH for a little cruise through this region. I would like to see when they are noted and where the planes that are likely to interdict them may strike from. Nemo loves to work with concentrated, rather than diluted forces, thus he clearly can’t be everywhere on the map. I’m trying to find out where that may be and if these assignments are static.
In the air, Nemo lost 18 planes vs 22 Allied (8 of these destroyed on the ground). I tried to do a bit of city bombing in India and Russia which was not too successful, plus there was probably a raid on Effate (sp?), which was not completely intentional but may serve the purpose of feinting this is where I want to go. Other than that, I was mostly relocating my planes.
The disentanglement of forces in Russia is slow; the units made something like 30 miles this turn only. The same is valid for India. The next turn or two will decide whether I can give unification of forces a try in India or if this goal is out of reach. Also, if all goes well, tomorrow (game time) there will be two small surprises for either Nemo or me. I expect that the first series of serious (=sort of prepared) Ops can be started about two weeks game time from now.
That's about all I remember I wanted to say now. If there are specific questions or comments, let me know.
Thanks for your interest
Hartwig
Disaster 1 of the new allied CINCPAC
Gentlemen,
this is just a quick heads up just in time to keep my thread on page 1 of the AARs - just found the returned turn two from Nemo in my inbox, and he has solved his computer problems, so this time I will be able to provide some more detailed info, but that will take time.
As was to be expected, Nemo administered the first real
, because a plan I had did not work the way it was supposed to. Also, I can proudly report that almost 60 B17 managed to score resounding 4 airstrip hits at Exmouth...
But that's all for this teaser. I'll hopefully be back later with the bloody details of the turn.
Hartwig
this is just a quick heads up just in time to keep my thread on page 1 of the AARs - just found the returned turn two from Nemo in my inbox, and he has solved his computer problems, so this time I will be able to provide some more detailed info, but that will take time.
As was to be expected, Nemo administered the first real
, because a plan I had did not work the way it was supposed to. Also, I can proudly report that almost 60 B17 managed to score resounding 4 airstrip hits at Exmouth...But that's all for this teaser. I'll hopefully be back later with the bloody details of the turn.
Hartwig
The best laid plans...
Gentlemen,
sorry for not getting back yesterday... not sure how much I can post today, but I want to give it a start to keep you informed on operations.
As I had told you earlier, I am trying to get India back into a moving war (as opposed to being pinned down). This will not come without paying a price, but I think getting Nemo's mind a little busy may be worth wasting a LCU or two and ships which would be sunk/scuttled anyway.
In the above picture, you see one of my little pet plans. You see 5 TFs (all of which were at sea in turn 1 already, but not annihilated). The high number stems from the fact that - as you see - the speed of the AKs used is different, ranging from 8 to 14 or so. What you don't see is a "please sink me" 3 ship TF at Diamond harbor, which is to attract Nemo's strike planes. If this was not a Gutter war, this would not be my style of play, but 2nd ACR and Nemo wanted it so and thus here we go - we don't have the standard HR "don't do it if you think it may be an exploit". Besides, times are tough for the Allied and special times nead special measures, right ?
The uncircled TF is to unload in the hex it is in. This was my plan to unlock the Cuttack forces, which did not work because Nemo took the base last turn.
In the green circle, there is a force having a go at Vizagapatam (sp?). Just a little try - maybe it is not garrisoned. Well, it is - one could expect this, because the move I make here may be expected. Still, I assume with a little help from Madras or Cuttack one might have eliminated that garrison.
These TFs mostly survived. There were mines at Viza... which took their toll, but the "please sink me" TF performed (=was sunk).
In red, you see the important TF and its scheduled movement. It is a fast AP with a fragment of an Indian Brigade and designed to unlock the Madras position. Unfortunately, it got nailed by planes - I assume it was a strike from Ceylon, which is a different source than the ones going after the "please sink me" TF.
Result of this India plan: I got a doomed fragment at Viza. and a doomed fragment 1 hex west of cuttack.. and Nemo knows I won't be hunkering down and Indian bases need to be garrisoned. Well, tomorrow I'll come up with a new plan to save the world from Nemo.
Any comments are welcome. Specifically, do you like this style of report ? Requests are taken, as well as any advice, hint, why didn't you do this and that was stupid anyway because...
I'll be back later today or tomorrow with another plan-outcome discussion in the Aleutians.
Hartwig
sorry for not getting back yesterday... not sure how much I can post today, but I want to give it a start to keep you informed on operations.
As I had told you earlier, I am trying to get India back into a moving war (as opposed to being pinned down). This will not come without paying a price, but I think getting Nemo's mind a little busy may be worth wasting a LCU or two and ships which would be sunk/scuttled anyway.
In the above picture, you see one of my little pet plans. You see 5 TFs (all of which were at sea in turn 1 already, but not annihilated). The high number stems from the fact that - as you see - the speed of the AKs used is different, ranging from 8 to 14 or so. What you don't see is a "please sink me" 3 ship TF at Diamond harbor, which is to attract Nemo's strike planes. If this was not a Gutter war, this would not be my style of play, but 2nd ACR and Nemo wanted it so and thus here we go - we don't have the standard HR "don't do it if you think it may be an exploit". Besides, times are tough for the Allied and special times nead special measures, right ?
The uncircled TF is to unload in the hex it is in. This was my plan to unlock the Cuttack forces, which did not work because Nemo took the base last turn.
In the green circle, there is a force having a go at Vizagapatam (sp?). Just a little try - maybe it is not garrisoned. Well, it is - one could expect this, because the move I make here may be expected. Still, I assume with a little help from Madras or Cuttack one might have eliminated that garrison.
These TFs mostly survived. There were mines at Viza... which took their toll, but the "please sink me" TF performed (=was sunk).
In red, you see the important TF and its scheduled movement. It is a fast AP with a fragment of an Indian Brigade and designed to unlock the Madras position. Unfortunately, it got nailed by planes - I assume it was a strike from Ceylon, which is a different source than the ones going after the "please sink me" TF.
Result of this India plan: I got a doomed fragment at Viza. and a doomed fragment 1 hex west of cuttack.. and Nemo knows I won't be hunkering down and Indian bases need to be garrisoned. Well, tomorrow I'll come up with a new plan to save the world from Nemo.
Any comments are welcome. Specifically, do you like this style of report ? Requests are taken, as well as any advice, hint, why didn't you do this and that was stupid anyway because...
I'll be back later today or tomorrow with another plan-outcome discussion in the Aleutians.
Hartwig
- Attachments
-
- india_plan.jpg (20.06 KiB) Viewed 162 times
RE: The best laid plans...
What exactly do you mean by unlocking the Madras position with the LCU on the red circled TF? If you mean that you think you are creating a retreat hex for the Madras garrison to move to once ejected from the city, then the plan will not work. Allied LCUs only retreat if a valid supply path can be traced back to an Allied base. In this instance, you have only 100 supply points to constitute a valid supply path. I doubt very much that landing one hex to the right of Madras will establish a valid supply path but of course I don't have the benefit of seeing the map position to confirm this statement.
Alfred
Alfred
RE: The best laid plans...
Alfred,
the plan is history anyway, the TF was sunk too quickly. It is not about creating a retreat path - you are correct that there is none available. But right now, Nemo can use 2 units to pin the forces at Madras down, because I cannot change from a contested hex to a japanese controlled hex. That rule holds, no matter whether you give a base hex as target or not.
Controlled means: J is written there, it does not require the presence of Japanese troops.
Unlock means: change ownership of the hex. This can be done by landing a very small unit on an unoccupied hex. This would render the Madras garrison being able to move again. Once you are in an unconstested hex, of course you can move into an enemy controlled hex.You can even decide to let yourself be pinned down again if not at a base - afaik likelihood of surrender goes down drastically if you are outside a base.
It is evident what can be done in a situation in which I cannot move: Pin the enemy down with minimal forces (keep the base hex contested) and crush one of the nuts after another with overwhelming odds. Nemo does not have to worry about his supply lines if noone is roaming around. The theater then turns into a simple mechanic task, no problems left to be solved. Also, he can concentrate everything without much of a need to garrison.
On the other hand, if there are about 400 AV (the Madras force) or 550 AV (Madras+Cuttack) on the move in India, they might have made it to Calcutta, though I am not sure I would have tried that. Even if not, such a force is also likely to be able to contest most of the Garrisons Nemo has left in India. he would need to garrison or at least think how to forestall the moves of this forces as well as dissipate rather than concentrate his AV. To control this force when it can move, much more than 2 units are needed. To ignore it means that Nemo's own supply lines may be threatened.
Just to make sure you get me right: All of this is about trying to turn this theater into one where Nemo has to spend thought on and has to react. Buzz him with options, make easy problems look complicated. The more of those exist, the more likely it is he will make a mistake. The Madras garrison will probably last a week or so longer where it is than it would otherwise have been the case, with urban bonus and all. But it might have taken pressure off other places which are under siege or will come under siege in a few turns, thus probably leading to a longer lasting, more complicated theater.
Just my view on things - feel free to correct me if you think I miss the point. And as I said - it is not going to happen at that place any more.
Hartwig
ORIGINAL: Alfred
What exactly do you mean by unlocking the Madras position with the LCU on the red circled TF? If you mean that you think you are creating a retreat hex for the Madras garrison to move to once ejected from the city, then the plan will not work. Allied LCUs only retreat if a valid supply path can be traced back to an Allied base. In this instance, you have only 100 supply points to constitute a valid supply path. I doubt very much that landing one hex to the right of Madras will establish a valid supply path but of course I don't have the benefit of seeing the map position to confirm this statement.
Alfred
the plan is history anyway, the TF was sunk too quickly. It is not about creating a retreat path - you are correct that there is none available. But right now, Nemo can use 2 units to pin the forces at Madras down, because I cannot change from a contested hex to a japanese controlled hex. That rule holds, no matter whether you give a base hex as target or not.
Controlled means: J is written there, it does not require the presence of Japanese troops.
Unlock means: change ownership of the hex. This can be done by landing a very small unit on an unoccupied hex. This would render the Madras garrison being able to move again. Once you are in an unconstested hex, of course you can move into an enemy controlled hex.You can even decide to let yourself be pinned down again if not at a base - afaik likelihood of surrender goes down drastically if you are outside a base.
It is evident what can be done in a situation in which I cannot move: Pin the enemy down with minimal forces (keep the base hex contested) and crush one of the nuts after another with overwhelming odds. Nemo does not have to worry about his supply lines if noone is roaming around. The theater then turns into a simple mechanic task, no problems left to be solved. Also, he can concentrate everything without much of a need to garrison.
On the other hand, if there are about 400 AV (the Madras force) or 550 AV (Madras+Cuttack) on the move in India, they might have made it to Calcutta, though I am not sure I would have tried that. Even if not, such a force is also likely to be able to contest most of the Garrisons Nemo has left in India. he would need to garrison or at least think how to forestall the moves of this forces as well as dissipate rather than concentrate his AV. To control this force when it can move, much more than 2 units are needed. To ignore it means that Nemo's own supply lines may be threatened.
Just to make sure you get me right: All of this is about trying to turn this theater into one where Nemo has to spend thought on and has to react. Buzz him with options, make easy problems look complicated. The more of those exist, the more likely it is he will make a mistake. The Madras garrison will probably last a week or so longer where it is than it would otherwise have been the case, with urban bonus and all. But it might have taken pressure off other places which are under siege or will come under siege in a few turns, thus probably leading to a longer lasting, more complicated theater.
Just my view on things - feel free to correct me if you think I miss the point. And as I said - it is not going to happen at that place any more.
Hartwig
The promised details of the first disaster...
Gentlemen,
here’s finally the report of my 1st real disaster… sorry, I did not manage to post it yesterday. Invasion of the in-laws beached early…
As I had outlined previously, I think I need to push Nemo in the Aleutians even though this is an evident axis of attack. The first quick&dirty attempt to do that was setting up a fast transport TF consisting of 1 CL and 6 DD, speed >31 knots, transporting parts of a US regiment to cold bay (red marks in the picture). Of course, I had no idea what’s there, but I need to know for my more systematic attacks which will start once I got more units up north, maybe two weeks from now.
Therefore the idea was to drop these forces and either pick up the place if defended lightly or lose them in exchange for information what is holding the place. At the same time, I was hoping to draw blood from Nemo’s air assets in the region, by drawing an air attack on that TF, which was supposed to be CAPed heavily.
On the screenshot, you see what I set up:
If the fast TF would have made it back into the yellow zone, Nemo would have encountered a CAP of 120 planes. Even if it was just to reach the light blue, 60 fighters (this calculation assumes 20 of 27 available planes would fly) were expected to be available to defend them.
Umnak seems to be a more relevant airstrip in the vicinity, thus as an add on, I set up two airstrikes against it, using a 70ish Bostons from Kodiak and a few Lancasters and Wellingtons from Anchorage (see green lines), totaling maybe 100-110 planes. It turns out that Allied bombers are much more vulnerable than in stock, here’s the painful results – not much achievement for the loss of many planes.
[font="Courier New"]Day Air attack on Umnak Island [AK] , at 101,37
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zeke x 20
A6M2-N Rufe-FF x 21
Allied aircraft
A-20B Boston x 70
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zeke: 2 destroyed, 8 damaged
A6M2-N Rufe-FF: 5 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
A-20B Boston: 42 destroyed
Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Umnak Island [AK] , at 101,37
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zeke x 18
A6M2-N Rufe-FF x 21
Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 14
Wellington IC x 25
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zeke: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
A6M2-N Rufe-FF: 8 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 7 destroyed
Wellington IC: 12 destroyed
Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 3[/font]
Here, I really had expected losses because I had assumed 1-2 daitai might be CAPping the place, but it came as a bit of a surprise to me to see how many of the bombers –even the Liberators- went down. Jap fighters apparently field quite effective cannons now…
The fast transport TF ran into CD guns. Not sure whether they are more effective/available in the mod's BFs, in any case they lead to this
[font="Courier New"]Coastal Guns at Cold Bay [Alaska], 105,36, firing at TF 1022
TF 1022 troops unloading over beach at Cold Bay [Alaska], 105,36
482 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Kane, Shell hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
DD Aylwin
DD Worden, Shell hits 1
CL Raleigh, Shell hits 4, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Allied ground losses:
221 casualties reported
Guns lost 12[/font]
which in turn leads to the fact that the TF moves back just a single hex (to the place marked with a pink cross). ONE. [8|] Where there is NO CAP rather than 120 planes... with a predictable result:
[font="Courier New"]Day Air attack on TF at 106,36
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zeke x 21
A6M2-N Rufe-FF x 11
G4M1 Betty x 21
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged
Allied Ships
CL Raleigh, on fire, heavy damage
DD Aylwin, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Worden
Day Air attack on TF at 106,36
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zeke x 9
A6M2-N Rufe-FF x 6
G4M1 Betty x 18
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 10 damaged
Allied Ships
DD MacDonough, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Aylwin, on fire, heavy damage [/font]
You all know the moments in WitP when you look at the reply and just can’t believe what is happening… this was one of them. Oh boy, a fast TF moving only 1 hex on their way out of dodge… not quite what I had expected to see…
By the way: Does anyone have an idea how the P43 Lancer performs in this mod for the Allies ? Looks a bit undergunned, but how well or bad does it do ?
Well, on with the war. I hope that tonight I can do the next turn and be back with more amusing stories about my blunders and evil electronic dice...
Thanks for your interest
Hartwig
here’s finally the report of my 1st real disaster… sorry, I did not manage to post it yesterday. Invasion of the in-laws beached early…
As I had outlined previously, I think I need to push Nemo in the Aleutians even though this is an evident axis of attack. The first quick&dirty attempt to do that was setting up a fast transport TF consisting of 1 CL and 6 DD, speed >31 knots, transporting parts of a US regiment to cold bay (red marks in the picture). Of course, I had no idea what’s there, but I need to know for my more systematic attacks which will start once I got more units up north, maybe two weeks from now.
Therefore the idea was to drop these forces and either pick up the place if defended lightly or lose them in exchange for information what is holding the place. At the same time, I was hoping to draw blood from Nemo’s air assets in the region, by drawing an air attack on that TF, which was supposed to be CAPed heavily.
On the screenshot, you see what I set up:
If the fast TF would have made it back into the yellow zone, Nemo would have encountered a CAP of 120 planes. Even if it was just to reach the light blue, 60 fighters (this calculation assumes 20 of 27 available planes would fly) were expected to be available to defend them.
Umnak seems to be a more relevant airstrip in the vicinity, thus as an add on, I set up two airstrikes against it, using a 70ish Bostons from Kodiak and a few Lancasters and Wellingtons from Anchorage (see green lines), totaling maybe 100-110 planes. It turns out that Allied bombers are much more vulnerable than in stock, here’s the painful results – not much achievement for the loss of many planes.
[font="Courier New"]Day Air attack on Umnak Island [AK] , at 101,37
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zeke x 20
A6M2-N Rufe-FF x 21
Allied aircraft
A-20B Boston x 70
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zeke: 2 destroyed, 8 damaged
A6M2-N Rufe-FF: 5 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
A-20B Boston: 42 destroyed
Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Umnak Island [AK] , at 101,37
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zeke x 18
A6M2-N Rufe-FF x 21
Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 14
Wellington IC x 25
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zeke: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
A6M2-N Rufe-FF: 8 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 7 destroyed
Wellington IC: 12 destroyed
Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 3[/font]
Here, I really had expected losses because I had assumed 1-2 daitai might be CAPping the place, but it came as a bit of a surprise to me to see how many of the bombers –even the Liberators- went down. Jap fighters apparently field quite effective cannons now…
The fast transport TF ran into CD guns. Not sure whether they are more effective/available in the mod's BFs, in any case they lead to this
[font="Courier New"]Coastal Guns at Cold Bay [Alaska], 105,36, firing at TF 1022
TF 1022 troops unloading over beach at Cold Bay [Alaska], 105,36
482 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Kane, Shell hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
DD Aylwin
DD Worden, Shell hits 1
CL Raleigh, Shell hits 4, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Allied ground losses:
221 casualties reported
Guns lost 12[/font]
which in turn leads to the fact that the TF moves back just a single hex (to the place marked with a pink cross). ONE. [8|] Where there is NO CAP rather than 120 planes... with a predictable result:
[font="Courier New"]Day Air attack on TF at 106,36
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zeke x 21
A6M2-N Rufe-FF x 11
G4M1 Betty x 21
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged
Allied Ships
CL Raleigh, on fire, heavy damage
DD Aylwin, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Worden
Day Air attack on TF at 106,36
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zeke x 9
A6M2-N Rufe-FF x 6
G4M1 Betty x 18
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 10 damaged
Allied Ships
DD MacDonough, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Aylwin, on fire, heavy damage [/font]
You all know the moments in WitP when you look at the reply and just can’t believe what is happening… this was one of them. Oh boy, a fast TF moving only 1 hex on their way out of dodge… not quite what I had expected to see…
By the way: Does anyone have an idea how the P43 Lancer performs in this mod for the Allies ? Looks a bit undergunned, but how well or bad does it do ?
Well, on with the war. I hope that tonight I can do the next turn and be back with more amusing stories about my blunders and evil electronic dice...
Thanks for your interest
Hartwig
- Attachments
-
- aleutian_d..ter_plan.jpg (25.75 KiB) Viewed 162 times
RE: The promised details of the first disaster...
P43 does okay.......I had been running sweeps into Cold Bay and getting 1-1 odss roughly. But he is also rotating/had been rotating extremely exp groups in that take a toll.
Allied level bombers fall like flies in this mod. Not sure why, never really compared to stock, but they fall from the skies everywhere. Even B17's will get slaughtered.
Your most effective fighter is the 2 night fighter groups around OZ or Suva.......they can and will do okay on sweep missions.
Allied level bombers fall like flies in this mod. Not sure why, never really compared to stock, but they fall from the skies everywhere. Even B17's will get slaughtered.
Your most effective fighter is the 2 night fighter groups around OZ or Suva.......they can and will do okay on sweep missions.
RE: The promised details of the first disaster...
So, sounds like this is the "Let the Wookie Win" mod.
Sorry - just made me laugh thinking about it.
Sorry - just made me laugh thinking about it.
Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...
RE: The promised details of the first disaster...
Welcome to my world of pain...V Nemo.[;)]
Allied aircraft do fall from the skies as much as Japanese planes but you do have 2 assets that are untouchable if used well. The Japanese have no high Alt fighter until Jan '43 therefore these are the tactics Nemo has employed against me.
1. Gather all the big bad boys you can (Pe-2 or B-17's) - Pe-2 are better as they are DB but only have a range of 6. So they are no good for your first hop.
2. Cap the hell out of that base.
3. Send them at Max alt.
4. Watch the destruction. Even if it is incremental 100+ B-17's will close a base in a few days and leave the Japanese having to withdraw.
In the Aleutians - the weather played havoc with air operations and so Nemo build huge fast transports composed of 25 DD/CA/CL/BB ships. Suppressed the air and launched across the Is. chain, not bothering to take them all and thereby isolating many of the bases, which later became POW camps and training facilities.
[edit] AND anyone thinking this mod is one sided in favour of the Japanese needs to come and play that side V a good opponent. And the same can be said of the Allies ... There are nuggets for both & employing the wrong tactics can create a world of pain - play it as such and enjoy this challenging alternative.
Allied aircraft do fall from the skies as much as Japanese planes but you do have 2 assets that are untouchable if used well. The Japanese have no high Alt fighter until Jan '43 therefore these are the tactics Nemo has employed against me.
1. Gather all the big bad boys you can (Pe-2 or B-17's) - Pe-2 are better as they are DB but only have a range of 6. So they are no good for your first hop.
2. Cap the hell out of that base.
3. Send them at Max alt.
4. Watch the destruction. Even if it is incremental 100+ B-17's will close a base in a few days and leave the Japanese having to withdraw.
In the Aleutians - the weather played havoc with air operations and so Nemo build huge fast transports composed of 25 DD/CA/CL/BB ships. Suppressed the air and launched across the Is. chain, not bothering to take them all and thereby isolating many of the bases, which later became POW camps and training facilities.
[edit] AND anyone thinking this mod is one sided in favour of the Japanese needs to come and play that side V a good opponent. And the same can be said of the Allies ... There are nuggets for both & employing the wrong tactics can create a world of pain - play it as such and enjoy this challenging alternative.
RE: The promised details of the first disaster...
Ok, Gentlemen,
yesterday evening I finally managed to send turn 3 to Nemo, thus it is likely there will be more disasters to report soon.
Thanks for the recent comments everyone contributed. Actually, I would like to use them to say more about this mod as I see it presently:
This is quite exactly what I think. My feeling is that in this mod it is much more important to evaluate his assets and use the right tool for the job - and only for this job, as it is frequently scarce in supply. The Mosquito NFs 2ndACR mentions are an example of that. They are very fast (and speed is very important in the A2A model) and have a much more powerful suite of guns than most other planes at the disposal of the Allies. Unfortunately, if I see things right, there are no replacement planes available until mid 43. Thus yes, you can win air battles with them for once. But if you fritter them away at places which are not essential, you won't get any more of them. Similar thing holds for the B19, which probably (did not try yet) replaces the "invulnerable" B17 in stock. The Allies get "experimental" P51 units and Corsairs on their carriers very early in the war (early 43), I already mentioned those Mosquitos and the B19. They do get goodies as well.
Yes, Nippon's capabilities have been increased significantly and some of the traditional ways of choking the economy won't work. Still, the load of options where to go will make planning of the economy necessary and limiting oneself a must.
In general, I believe that all of this makes the "plan ahead" and logistics aspects even stronger than it usually is in stock. Here, I have to have a specific unit type at a specific place of the map to perform a well defined task. In stock, this was much less important. As I understand what is said about AE, it will move in this direction. Thus, I recommend everyone tries this mod.
Another aspect I consider to be interesting in this mod is that it can be used in some respect as a test of doctrines. Specifically, in my situation the Allied lack the resources to conduct a deep defense (which made the Ardennes offensive fail) - like NATO did during cold war, whereas Nippon is pretty much fielding the superior numbers the Soviets had. Nemo uses Soviet doctrine - I'll try to implement the AirLand battle as well as I understand it (do tell me when I get it wrong, I just started to look at this doctrine in order to find a way how to counter Nemo's OMG approach).
The one thing I regret when looking at the OOB is that the Allies (including the russians) lack sufficient numbers of paratroopers. Countering Nemo's OMG warfare with a counter-blitz (as would be doctrinally required, if I see things right - correct me if I'm wrong here) will be difficult due to the lack of such units. Still, I will try to implement this - input and help are appreciated.
Thanks for your interest
Hartwig
yesterday evening I finally managed to send turn 3 to Nemo, thus it is likely there will be more disasters to report soon.
Thanks for the recent comments everyone contributed. Actually, I would like to use them to say more about this mod as I see it presently:
ORIGINAL: n01487477
[edit] AND anyone thinking this mod is one sided in favour of the Japanese needs to come and play that side V a good opponent. And the same can be said of the Allies ... There are nuggets for both & employing the wrong tactics can create a world of pain - play it as such and enjoy this challenging alternative.
This is quite exactly what I think. My feeling is that in this mod it is much more important to evaluate his assets and use the right tool for the job - and only for this job, as it is frequently scarce in supply. The Mosquito NFs 2ndACR mentions are an example of that. They are very fast (and speed is very important in the A2A model) and have a much more powerful suite of guns than most other planes at the disposal of the Allies. Unfortunately, if I see things right, there are no replacement planes available until mid 43. Thus yes, you can win air battles with them for once. But if you fritter them away at places which are not essential, you won't get any more of them. Similar thing holds for the B19, which probably (did not try yet) replaces the "invulnerable" B17 in stock. The Allies get "experimental" P51 units and Corsairs on their carriers very early in the war (early 43), I already mentioned those Mosquitos and the B19. They do get goodies as well.
Yes, Nippon's capabilities have been increased significantly and some of the traditional ways of choking the economy won't work. Still, the load of options where to go will make planning of the economy necessary and limiting oneself a must.
In general, I believe that all of this makes the "plan ahead" and logistics aspects even stronger than it usually is in stock. Here, I have to have a specific unit type at a specific place of the map to perform a well defined task. In stock, this was much less important. As I understand what is said about AE, it will move in this direction. Thus, I recommend everyone tries this mod.
Another aspect I consider to be interesting in this mod is that it can be used in some respect as a test of doctrines. Specifically, in my situation the Allied lack the resources to conduct a deep defense (which made the Ardennes offensive fail) - like NATO did during cold war, whereas Nippon is pretty much fielding the superior numbers the Soviets had. Nemo uses Soviet doctrine - I'll try to implement the AirLand battle as well as I understand it (do tell me when I get it wrong, I just started to look at this doctrine in order to find a way how to counter Nemo's OMG approach).
The one thing I regret when looking at the OOB is that the Allies (including the russians) lack sufficient numbers of paratroopers. Countering Nemo's OMG warfare with a counter-blitz (as would be doctrinally required, if I see things right - correct me if I'm wrong here) will be difficult due to the lack of such units. Still, I will try to implement this - input and help are appreciated.
Thanks for your interest
Hartwig
RE: The promised details of the first disaster...
Hartwig,
I think these are the Parachute units avail to you now --
USMC 1st Para Battalion
USMC 2nd Para Battalion
USMC 3rd Para Battalion
NE Korps Insulinde
With a few more to come in 43 & '44 (incl at least 2 US and 1 Oz) ... would be nice to have a filter in tracker for Para's and I'll definitely look into it as it is something I want too.
I totally agree with your summation of this mod, but you put it so much better than I [;)]
Damian
I think these are the Parachute units avail to you now --
USMC 1st Para Battalion
USMC 2nd Para Battalion
USMC 3rd Para Battalion
NE Korps Insulinde
With a few more to come in 43 & '44 (incl at least 2 US and 1 Oz) ... would be nice to have a filter in tracker for Para's and I'll definitely look into it as it is something I want too.
I totally agree with your summation of this mod, but you put it so much better than I [;)]
Damian
RE: The promised details of the first disaster...
Well, late in the war you will get a complete Marine Para div.
One issue I have had and told Nemo about was that he robbed the F4U Corsair of firepower. It in IRL was armed with 6 .50 cal mgs.......but in the mod until very late war, it is armed with 2 .50 cal and 2 .30 cal. I can see the very early versions being armed like that, but after May 42 no US fighter was armed with less than 6 .50 cal.
I was shocked when I really looked at the mod in depth and it really looks like Japan has been turned into a mini Germany with all the armor forces she gets. And all those units arrive 100% full strength. He only needs armaments and vehicles to replace losses. Another thing I noticed was that the T34 is not listed in equipment pools, so I do not know if they even get replaced.
One issue I have had and told Nemo about was that he robbed the F4U Corsair of firepower. It in IRL was armed with 6 .50 cal mgs.......but in the mod until very late war, it is armed with 2 .50 cal and 2 .30 cal. I can see the very early versions being armed like that, but after May 42 no US fighter was armed with less than 6 .50 cal.
I was shocked when I really looked at the mod in depth and it really looks like Japan has been turned into a mini Germany with all the armor forces she gets. And all those units arrive 100% full strength. He only needs armaments and vehicles to replace losses. Another thing I noticed was that the T34 is not listed in equipment pools, so I do not know if they even get replaced.