flaggelant, I just caught up with this AAR, and will be following it with interest. I am learning to play to play the Japanese side, because my brother and I are going to play a PBEM as soon as he feels like he understands the Allies. Funny coincidence. He and I have also been playing war games against each other for a long time, just like you two guys.
Anyway I am most curious as to your, and anyone else thoughts , as to entertaining the idea of not conquering the PI fairly quickly. If for no other reason than to avoid a bunch of subs and planes being based there.
Brothers at arms
Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
RE: India or PI ??
" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley
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flaggelant
- Posts: 262
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- Location: Netherlands
RE: India or PI ??
Hey
welcome to the club!
playing with friends/family is fun, but it also gives a twist to the game since you really know your opponent
and besides that, we're usually talking WITP after a couple of pints, so even the actual battlefield is often discussed from both sides (with both sides leaving out several important details of course [:D])
We went for the standard 1 major port attack (PH in our game) so the subs were alive and kicking anyways, after staging the submarines in PI you can easily replenish them at Soerabaja in the start of the war.
Once this is taken there isn't to much for them to do in the Jap backlands anyways, since there will be many several heavy ASW TF's roaming the safe waters and thus hunting subs without any risk (except getting torped by subs of course [8|])
I see PI as a secondary objective, since it can not be properly reinforced for about a year, there's no real rush in taking it,
however, not doing so innediatly means that every other battlefront you plan can benefit from this. (southern China and a part of Indochina would have surely been overrun if i wouldn't have had a lot of spare troops available)
The only small annoyance is a small Fortress unit bombing shipping every now & then, but these rarely hit anything at all.
(there were those 3 PT boats that cost me 2 ASW-ing DD's in the northern PI, but thats another story..)
If i can take all of India a couple weeks up to an entire month earlier that probably results in a British division or more not showing up at Karachi so that is absolutely worth it to me. Allied reinforcements to PI are only in Bataan and this is in the first week, so there is almost no chance to intercept these.
So all in all, i prefer to see the island last a bit longer and then take it out when all major battles are fought elsewhere.
This enables me to start moving troops to defensive positions earlier, since when time comes, only a small part of the troops will be admitted to PI to take it.
This way the allied player doesnt see that there is 3.500 AV tied up in India, but can only locate 2000 AV In PI. The other 1.500 AV not located could be at any place where he is planning to strike, causing the Allied player to re-think every step he makes. PI is also located at the centre of the empire, which results in the fleet being able to reach most locations withing a short time if needed.
The more i think of it, the more i like it [:)]
now only to configure an adequate garrison force for the Beachhead to make sure i dont get kicked out
welcome to the club!
playing with friends/family is fun, but it also gives a twist to the game since you really know your opponent
and besides that, we're usually talking WITP after a couple of pints, so even the actual battlefield is often discussed from both sides (with both sides leaving out several important details of course [:D])
We went for the standard 1 major port attack (PH in our game) so the subs were alive and kicking anyways, after staging the submarines in PI you can easily replenish them at Soerabaja in the start of the war.
Once this is taken there isn't to much for them to do in the Jap backlands anyways, since there will be many several heavy ASW TF's roaming the safe waters and thus hunting subs without any risk (except getting torped by subs of course [8|])
I see PI as a secondary objective, since it can not be properly reinforced for about a year, there's no real rush in taking it,
however, not doing so innediatly means that every other battlefront you plan can benefit from this. (southern China and a part of Indochina would have surely been overrun if i wouldn't have had a lot of spare troops available)
The only small annoyance is a small Fortress unit bombing shipping every now & then, but these rarely hit anything at all.
(there were those 3 PT boats that cost me 2 ASW-ing DD's in the northern PI, but thats another story..)
If i can take all of India a couple weeks up to an entire month earlier that probably results in a British division or more not showing up at Karachi so that is absolutely worth it to me. Allied reinforcements to PI are only in Bataan and this is in the first week, so there is almost no chance to intercept these.
So all in all, i prefer to see the island last a bit longer and then take it out when all major battles are fought elsewhere.
This enables me to start moving troops to defensive positions earlier, since when time comes, only a small part of the troops will be admitted to PI to take it.
This way the allied player doesnt see that there is 3.500 AV tied up in India, but can only locate 2000 AV In PI. The other 1.500 AV not located could be at any place where he is planning to strike, causing the Allied player to re-think every step he makes. PI is also located at the centre of the empire, which results in the fleet being able to reach most locations withing a short time if needed.
The more i think of it, the more i like it [:)]
now only to configure an adequate garrison force for the Beachhead to make sure i dont get kicked out
RE: India or PI ??
I really like the idea of taking out a lot of the PI based subs. But I am starting to see your point about taking your time in actually capturing the major cities of PI. It seems like taking Davao, Aparri, Jolo, Cagayan, Legaspi and Naga is still important since they are all size 4 and above airfields ( I am playing stock map ).
" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley
RE: India or PI ??
I'd finish off the Phil and take eastern India. You've read how our landing didn't initially do as well as we hoped in the 2x2 so it be better to land closer to Diamond Harbor and drive due north. Chittagong might be the place or Cox's Bizarre. Maybe just land at Viza and do better then we did!
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
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flaggelant
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RE: India or PI ??
ORIGINAL: stuman
I really like the idea of taking out a lot of the PI based subs. But I am starting to see your point about taking your time in actually capturing the major cities of PI. It seems like taking Davao, Aparri, Jolo, Cagayan, Legaspi and Naga is still important since they are all size 4 and above airfields ( I am playing stock map ).
I'm taking the first 4 cities (airfields)
Davao, Aparri, Jolo, Cagayan
i've landed on Legaspi as well, with a division, but after getting a 0-1 score at Naga (with a fully prepped division)
i've withdrawn it to speed up the fight around Davao and then re-evaluate the situation (which is happening just about now [:D])
There are Plenty of Airfields on the northern PI mainland, once the battle is starting out, they will soon be conquered and made operational, this would take about a week max. until then Aparri's AF together with Formosa will have to do.
If i was given the option to choose which port to attack i'd very likely be picking Manilla to, BB's can be sunk in just about every properly planned naval operation. Those submarines however have been a pain in the *** for about a month now, and despite scoring several hits in ASW (both naval & air) i only had 1 confirmed sinking (SS Trusty sank after taking a 250 AP hit during an air mission [8D])
I'll do a print screen of PI sometime soon, but there isn't to much to see except for my Beachhead and a load of green dots
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
I'd finish off the Phil and take eastern India. You've read how our landing didn't initially do as well as we hoped in the 2x2 so it be better to land closer to Diamond Harbor and drive due north. Chittagong might be the place or Cox's Bizarre. Maybe just land at Viza and do better then we did!
The place to land is still a mystery to me, have to look into that "little" detail before shipping in, the only place i have some troops planning for at the moment is Karachi ( with 2 INF div).
I'm hoping to do better than in your 2x2 game John, not because i am over confident in my abilities, but mostly because i am planning the entire operation about 2 months earlier than the start of your landing in India. This should make a huge difference in the amount of troops available and the amount of prepped bases i encounter on my journey in India.
Details still have to be made on the entire plan, but it will start moving fast once Malaya has fallen!
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flaggelant
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- Location: Netherlands
RE: India or PI ??
Due to the start of the harvesting season there weren't many days of progress in the Battle for world domination..
a pic of the PI, as they were on 25th (now turning into 27th)
there is 250 AV marching upon Davao
and over 500 on the western town, which is currently held by 2 units
all in all, it shouldn't be taking long to decide these battles
The most eastern Borneo town, as well as the most western one (a couple hexes out of Kragen!) was taken by a fragment of the 1st Yokosuko. the enitre 2nd Yokosuko will fly into Banjarisman, after taking it several NLF's will be flown in (Moulmein style!!) to march upon Tarakan.
Butuan will be taken on the 27th, making sure that we dont have to fight the same units twice, The NLF that landed at Butuan will be the only permanent garrison of Mindanao, together with a baseforce. all other units will march to Java (after sailing around for a bit first of course [:D])
On Luzon the battles aren't as bloody, the 27th will see some PI armor unit retake Vigan and with it 39 supplies ..
250AV are sent out to meet the unit (about 60AV ?)
from the south a baseforce comes to scout for units, which is met by a nav guard unit.
combined with the infantry division (and Aviation suport & air HQ) at Appari that is all there is in the northern island.
PI starting out with about 1300 AV of which about 300 is tied up in static forts and another 3 to 500 is guarding Naga,
leaves about 800 AV to battle the Beachhead.
Since the Beachhead is about 750 AV strong it will hold no matter what, but to not take any chances i'll be bringing in about 250 additional AV to establish a 1K AV beach head. This will also include the mentioned air force.
The airforce detachment will become the main training base over time, as most bombers will miss the start of the India invasion and are in dire need of some excitement [:D]
further developments;
finally able to replenish mini KB, after amboina's port was badly damaged the tankers were taking ages to unload, after stationing several other engeneer units this problem was solved at last.
Shokaku Zuikaku will hit Midway tomorrow for the first time, after 2 or 3 days this will enable my troops over there to try and make a final push, about time ..
KB sneeks around an allied STF to surprise the allied CV's, depending on allied movement, this will happen tomorrow or in 2 days.
Rabaul sees development as well, since the allied cv's have been steady around Guadal the bombardmentforce ( about 1BB 4CA 10 DD) and several smaller troop transports are forming up again for their final assault on Rabaul. This operation is covered by 75 zero's from kavieng, so risks are minimized
a pic of the PI, as they were on 25th (now turning into 27th)
there is 250 AV marching upon Davao
and over 500 on the western town, which is currently held by 2 units
all in all, it shouldn't be taking long to decide these battles
The most eastern Borneo town, as well as the most western one (a couple hexes out of Kragen!) was taken by a fragment of the 1st Yokosuko. the enitre 2nd Yokosuko will fly into Banjarisman, after taking it several NLF's will be flown in (Moulmein style!!) to march upon Tarakan.
Butuan will be taken on the 27th, making sure that we dont have to fight the same units twice, The NLF that landed at Butuan will be the only permanent garrison of Mindanao, together with a baseforce. all other units will march to Java (after sailing around for a bit first of course [:D])
On Luzon the battles aren't as bloody, the 27th will see some PI armor unit retake Vigan and with it 39 supplies ..
250AV are sent out to meet the unit (about 60AV ?)
from the south a baseforce comes to scout for units, which is met by a nav guard unit.
combined with the infantry division (and Aviation suport & air HQ) at Appari that is all there is in the northern island.
PI starting out with about 1300 AV of which about 300 is tied up in static forts and another 3 to 500 is guarding Naga,
leaves about 800 AV to battle the Beachhead.
Since the Beachhead is about 750 AV strong it will hold no matter what, but to not take any chances i'll be bringing in about 250 additional AV to establish a 1K AV beach head. This will also include the mentioned air force.
The airforce detachment will become the main training base over time, as most bombers will miss the start of the India invasion and are in dire need of some excitement [:D]
further developments;
finally able to replenish mini KB, after amboina's port was badly damaged the tankers were taking ages to unload, after stationing several other engeneer units this problem was solved at last.
Shokaku Zuikaku will hit Midway tomorrow for the first time, after 2 or 3 days this will enable my troops over there to try and make a final push, about time ..
KB sneeks around an allied STF to surprise the allied CV's, depending on allied movement, this will happen tomorrow or in 2 days.
Rabaul sees development as well, since the allied cv's have been steady around Guadal the bombardmentforce ( about 1BB 4CA 10 DD) and several smaller troop transports are forming up again for their final assault on Rabaul. This operation is covered by 75 zero's from kavieng, so risks are minimized
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flaggelant
- Posts: 262
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- Location: Netherlands
RE: India or PI ??
In Malaya the end stadium of all resistance will soon be reached,
Kuantan allready made good results and is a guaranteed capture in 1 or 2 days (am not really to experienced in the endstadium of ground combat, so its gonna be a learning point as well)
Georgetown will see the first Japanese troops arriving tomorrow, within 2 days the rest of the army will arrive as well. This will sign in the start of the end [8D]
Sumatra was put on a higher scal of urgency.
Initially i didn't find it to be a valuable place for the progress of other battles, but now that i found out that Jambi is actually a port city it becomes an easy target and therefor a "self running" land battle, instead of a fully prepared naval landing on Palembang.
The road down to Teloekbetoeng will take some time, but time is one thing there is plenty of in the DEI, India is the place where time will become an important factor!!
As a sidenote, not included in the screen shot;
Mandalay is only days away
Once the allied forces tried to make a stand, but were outflanked by the airdrop on Tau Gyi
in their retreat they were also shock attacked with severe losses once and ever since they have been moving towards Mandalay.
This guaranties a high disruption and i'm not sure weather to assault Mandalay directly over the river,
or to move over Pagan, evading an unneeded Shock attack.
Kuantan allready made good results and is a guaranteed capture in 1 or 2 days (am not really to experienced in the endstadium of ground combat, so its gonna be a learning point as well)
Georgetown will see the first Japanese troops arriving tomorrow, within 2 days the rest of the army will arrive as well. This will sign in the start of the end [8D]
Sumatra was put on a higher scal of urgency.
Initially i didn't find it to be a valuable place for the progress of other battles, but now that i found out that Jambi is actually a port city it becomes an easy target and therefor a "self running" land battle, instead of a fully prepared naval landing on Palembang.
The road down to Teloekbetoeng will take some time, but time is one thing there is plenty of in the DEI, India is the place where time will become an important factor!!
As a sidenote, not included in the screen shot;
Mandalay is only days away
Once the allied forces tried to make a stand, but were outflanked by the airdrop on Tau Gyi
in their retreat they were also shock attacked with severe losses once and ever since they have been moving towards Mandalay.
This guaranties a high disruption and i'm not sure weather to assault Mandalay directly over the river,
or to move over Pagan, evading an unneeded Shock attack.
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flaggelant
- Posts: 262
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- Location: Netherlands
Allied CV's spotted
All USN CV's are now accounted for.
Whilst KB is moving to intercept 2 Carriers that are inflicting damage to our Sopac landings the 3rd USN CV pops up
out of nowhere. It is bombing Tarawa, with 2 transports in sinking conditions there is no damage that can't be dealt with.
but things could have been much worst.
I believe that the commanders of recon & naval search operations at Maloelap & Tarawa (a total combined of up to 50 long range search planes) will be released of their command...
with the speed the carrier is making it could have been spotted twice, that it wasnt does tell that there is no landing force, otherwise i would have missed over 4 or 5 spottings. So this means the Carrier will either head back towards the Line isl.
or will try to join up with the other 2 Allied CV's around Guadal Canal.
During a conversation with My brother (& opponent) he was clearly stating to expect the KB to be moving in between PH &
West coast. Several Glenn subs in the area report that there is zero naval activity, so i believe that he is serious about this.
(i am reforming the Glenn sub line to make sure there is no corridor i'm overlooking)
So the position of the KB, in between the 2 USN CV is unrevealed. I surely didn't expect this after one of the val's from KB spotted an American submarine out of Kwajalijn, 1 day before making port.
The larger Allied CV TF is expected to head for PM in cruise speed, but since i will bombard Rabaul Tomorrow i believe that they will respond to this action and move back towards Rabaul.
KB will make a south-eastern approach, so that a retreat into the Solomon sea, where i have no search capabilities is cut off.
Hopefully there will be carrier contact before the KB is spotted from Port Moresby.
Whilst KB is moving to intercept 2 Carriers that are inflicting damage to our Sopac landings the 3rd USN CV pops up
out of nowhere. It is bombing Tarawa, with 2 transports in sinking conditions there is no damage that can't be dealt with.
but things could have been much worst.
I believe that the commanders of recon & naval search operations at Maloelap & Tarawa (a total combined of up to 50 long range search planes) will be released of their command...
with the speed the carrier is making it could have been spotted twice, that it wasnt does tell that there is no landing force, otherwise i would have missed over 4 or 5 spottings. So this means the Carrier will either head back towards the Line isl.
or will try to join up with the other 2 Allied CV's around Guadal Canal.
During a conversation with My brother (& opponent) he was clearly stating to expect the KB to be moving in between PH &
West coast. Several Glenn subs in the area report that there is zero naval activity, so i believe that he is serious about this.
(i am reforming the Glenn sub line to make sure there is no corridor i'm overlooking)
So the position of the KB, in between the 2 USN CV is unrevealed. I surely didn't expect this after one of the val's from KB spotted an American submarine out of Kwajalijn, 1 day before making port.
The larger Allied CV TF is expected to head for PM in cruise speed, but since i will bombard Rabaul Tomorrow i believe that they will respond to this action and move back towards Rabaul.
KB will make a south-eastern approach, so that a retreat into the Solomon sea, where i have no search capabilities is cut off.
Hopefully there will be carrier contact before the KB is spotted from Port Moresby.
RE: Allied CV's spotted
I am following your AAR closely. My brother is still learning by playing the AI as the Allies, i am doing the same to learn the Jap. side. We will start in a few weeks I think.
I have a general question for you. How far ahead are you planning your invasions ? I am trying to decide how far out to begin prepping various units.
I have a general question for you. How far ahead are you planning your invasions ? I am trying to decide how far out to begin prepping various units.
" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley
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flaggelant
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- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:00 pm
- Location: Netherlands
RE: Allied CV's spotted
it kinda depends on what resistance i'm expecting
on the smaller Dutch colonies i dont really prep
since most troops have fought in other scenario's by now they got a max of 10 to 15 prepping points.
Starting to fight on the larger Dutch colonies (java Sumatra) i'm trying to go for 20 to 30 prepping points, since troops have to be gathered or have been waiting for a longer time, this should be the minimum.
In India, i am allready planning for Karachi with 2 divisions, and will start doing the same for Colombo very soon
(after finishing the Chinese Push where a part of the battle line will come from)
The other half of the invasion will come from the Malaya army that will also become available quiet soon
(currently prepped around 15 to 20 for Georgetown, due to the the quick & unexpected fall of Singapore)
It kinda depends on the speed of an assault, your opponent can choose to skip one place in order to plan for the second, if you're 100 prepped for the town 2 hexes in front of it you'll end up out prepped by the enemy.
In Burma i started prepping for Mandalay before i knew that Singapore was deserted, this because no new troops had been shipped in and there were only 5 or 6 units in the area. Choosing the right place to prep for really depends on your opponent wether you've made the right choice.
One of the situations i don't really feel comfortable with is Timor i know he probably shipped in units, because of recon & fighter activity. there is hardly any big AV up for the job, and units have been prepped for Kendari, Amboina or other places up to recently.
So the choice here is to go in unprepped, under a heavy artillery/ air barrage to supress everything or wait for larger units that have been prepped. In a timetable however this would put Timor behind on shedule, after the Java invasion.
So the only real option here is to engage with heavy support units (mainly betty/nell val/Kate & BB/CA cover) and smaller units.
All in all i find it more important to keep on moving, try to push an assault forward on the time shedule. If i'm underprepped, then most likely the enemy isn't as well prepared as well (not to mention all the units he'll be getting pretty soon).
Up to now i dont really have any problems with breaking trough, i don't know if it will break up my front at a later stage,
or even if i'm doing less planning than a standard player (hard to tell, as most people dont talk about prepping points to often). All i know is that i'm in track with what i want to accomplish within a good amount of time.
on the smaller Dutch colonies i dont really prep
since most troops have fought in other scenario's by now they got a max of 10 to 15 prepping points.
Starting to fight on the larger Dutch colonies (java Sumatra) i'm trying to go for 20 to 30 prepping points, since troops have to be gathered or have been waiting for a longer time, this should be the minimum.
In India, i am allready planning for Karachi with 2 divisions, and will start doing the same for Colombo very soon
(after finishing the Chinese Push where a part of the battle line will come from)
The other half of the invasion will come from the Malaya army that will also become available quiet soon
(currently prepped around 15 to 20 for Georgetown, due to the the quick & unexpected fall of Singapore)
It kinda depends on the speed of an assault, your opponent can choose to skip one place in order to plan for the second, if you're 100 prepped for the town 2 hexes in front of it you'll end up out prepped by the enemy.
In Burma i started prepping for Mandalay before i knew that Singapore was deserted, this because no new troops had been shipped in and there were only 5 or 6 units in the area. Choosing the right place to prep for really depends on your opponent wether you've made the right choice.
One of the situations i don't really feel comfortable with is Timor i know he probably shipped in units, because of recon & fighter activity. there is hardly any big AV up for the job, and units have been prepped for Kendari, Amboina or other places up to recently.
So the choice here is to go in unprepped, under a heavy artillery/ air barrage to supress everything or wait for larger units that have been prepped. In a timetable however this would put Timor behind on shedule, after the Java invasion.
So the only real option here is to engage with heavy support units (mainly betty/nell val/Kate & BB/CA cover) and smaller units.
All in all i find it more important to keep on moving, try to push an assault forward on the time shedule. If i'm underprepped, then most likely the enemy isn't as well prepared as well (not to mention all the units he'll be getting pretty soon).
Up to now i dont really have any problems with breaking trough, i don't know if it will break up my front at a later stage,
or even if i'm doing less planning than a standard player (hard to tell, as most people dont talk about prepping points to often). All i know is that i'm in track with what i want to accomplish within a good amount of time.
RE: Allied CV's spotted
That makes sense at this stage; prep where you can, but more importanatly keep moving in these early months.
" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley
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flaggelant
- Posts: 262
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:00 pm
- Location: Netherlands
RE: Allied CV's spotted
game isnt moving along as quick as planned, but we're planning for a couple of turns this week..
a screenshot of the upcoming carrierbattle, 4 Jap CV vs 3 US CV (split in 2 groups)
Solomons
Rabaul was bombarded today by Mutsu and several cruisers and will be the scene of another naval landing tomorrow,
this will end the situation as it was and will enable us to finally take rabaul. The landing will hopefully attract the Allied CV´s
and bring them into striking range of KB.
Not sure if they should reach rabaul first, since the 75 zero´s in Kavieng have a nice impact upon the Allied CAP
further developments;
China
Wuhan is even with 1400 Chinese AV vs 1000 Jap AV
Chinese troops from Wuhan are moving to the south, probably will be seeing over 3000 AV on the Chinese coastline,
with the BB's in Honkong to keep system damage to a minimum (no fights at the coast yet, so they are off duty atm) this should be a nice sight pretty soon [8D]
Yenen will be waiting for another HQ unit and more supplies, all Kwangtung army bombers (including upgraded divebombers) are at Jehol, and can reach Yenen, so disruption will be a factor when the battle begins in about a week
Movement is closing on Homan, will be putting pressure on the northern routes to take the capital city and then move into the south, to destroy all units in a final battle over there (hopefully still on the coastline by then, i might even let them take Pakhoi on the long term for this reason)
Malaya
2000 AV gathered at Georgetown, waiting for the rest to arrive, aiming for new years eve for an opening shot
SRA
*Southern philipines are moving up fast
*Southern borneo sees over 150 bombers flying on Banjarisman to aid the 3 para regiments fighting over there to establish a land base without a naval landing
* Menado is going to be bombarded by 5 CA to give this battle a quick ending (started 2 days ago)
* Mini KB waiting for Amboina to run over 20K supplies for last squadron upgrade....
a screenshot of the upcoming carrierbattle, 4 Jap CV vs 3 US CV (split in 2 groups)
Solomons
Rabaul was bombarded today by Mutsu and several cruisers and will be the scene of another naval landing tomorrow,
this will end the situation as it was and will enable us to finally take rabaul. The landing will hopefully attract the Allied CV´s
and bring them into striking range of KB.
Not sure if they should reach rabaul first, since the 75 zero´s in Kavieng have a nice impact upon the Allied CAP
further developments;
China
Wuhan is even with 1400 Chinese AV vs 1000 Jap AV
Chinese troops from Wuhan are moving to the south, probably will be seeing over 3000 AV on the Chinese coastline,
with the BB's in Honkong to keep system damage to a minimum (no fights at the coast yet, so they are off duty atm) this should be a nice sight pretty soon [8D]
Yenen will be waiting for another HQ unit and more supplies, all Kwangtung army bombers (including upgraded divebombers) are at Jehol, and can reach Yenen, so disruption will be a factor when the battle begins in about a week
Movement is closing on Homan, will be putting pressure on the northern routes to take the capital city and then move into the south, to destroy all units in a final battle over there (hopefully still on the coastline by then, i might even let them take Pakhoi on the long term for this reason)
Malaya
2000 AV gathered at Georgetown, waiting for the rest to arrive, aiming for new years eve for an opening shot
SRA
*Southern philipines are moving up fast
*Southern borneo sees over 150 bombers flying on Banjarisman to aid the 3 para regiments fighting over there to establish a land base without a naval landing
* Menado is going to be bombarded by 5 CA to give this battle a quick ending (started 2 days ago)
* Mini KB waiting for Amboina to run over 20K supplies for last squadron upgrade....
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flaggelant
- Posts: 262
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:00 pm
- Location: Netherlands
RE: Allied CV's spotted
Still no CV action ..
The single Allied carrier that has bombed Tarawa has turned 180 and is headed back towards Allied ontroleled waters
The 2 other CV's are unsighted this turn
this can mean 4 things;
* My nav searchers are to be sent home for a refresshing of a part of their navsearch course, particularly nr. 2.01 "How to sight an Allied CV"
With 2 nell squadrons and 2 mavis sq all 4 set to 100 % search i'd say this isnt very likely..
* The other CV's have also made a 180 and are headed for Fiji etc, to make the long way to saftey
I think this isn't very likely because he would have all his carriers in one spot, knowing the opponent i'd say he wants carriers at several spots, so he can dictate any theatre where i have no CV's to protect/ attack.
* The CV's are headed towards the SRA to mingle with mini KB
Not sure on this one, he would remain sighted for a long period of time and be facing several land based TB / escort, but sinking a light/escort carrier
would be a big victory for the allies at this stage and set back my plans in the DEA for a period of time.
* The CV's remain near the solomon/ guinea/ eastern OZ
He is very likely starting to get low on fuel (sorties shouldnt be a problem yet) so i'm assuming he'll be topping off the fleet and then try to engage from a surprise situation again.
The question is, where will he be topping off; Darwin, townsville, or a larger port (Sydney/ brisbane)?
At the moment KB is starting to run low on fuel as well (subs just about dried out Kwajalijn before KB moved into port..),
they are moving in hostile territory where a replenishment TF isnt very safe and the location of the hostile fleet is unknown...
Lunga went to AF size 1 today, so i'll stage 2 squads of mavis over there, if a spotting stays out, then the fleet will head for Kwajalijn, and wait for Zuikaku Shokaku to merge to full strength again. If the sighting reports the fleet headed towards a OZ port i might consider a port raid, if not the return to Kwajalijn is the only real option. KB is starting to feel the long run on high speed, so i'd say they deserve some rest
Other highlights of the war:
Midway finally sees good results, forts reduced to 0 in a 1:1 result,
with lots of casualties on the allied side and minimal on ours, this, in combination with the CV bombardments will hopefully result in
a quick and decisive battle. (if you can still speak of quick and decisive after almost a month of nothingness...)
Malaya falls!!
During the first deliberate attack an unexpected easy victory is a fact [8D]
Ground combat at Georgetown
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 140912 troops, 1606 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 2789
Defending force 31626 troops, 154 guns, 8 vehicles, Assault Value = 461
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 4
Japanese max assault: 2636 - adjusted assault: 1954
Allied max defense: 414 - adjusted defense: 137
Japanese assault odds: 14 to 1 (fort level 4)
Japanese forces CAPTURE Georgetown base !!!
Japanese ground losses:
1418 casualties reported
Guns lost 51
Vehicles lost 2
Allied ground losses:
50992 casualties reported
Guns lost 205
Vehicles lost 1
Several units were lifted out of Malaya before falling, the 2nd Malaya brigade is sighted at the Andaman isl allready.
The army is marching for Singapore now, to get some rest and then we will start moving everything in place for an assault upon India.
China
the last HQ unit will arrive in Yenen in 1 or 2 days and see the start of the assault as the suport levels will be raised to acceptable standards,
bombing missions against Yenen from the Manchurian army have not been impressive to this point.
The army at Nanning & Haiphong are on the move, tomorrow will see all units leave Haiphong and all supplies being transported towards Hanoi, for a
permanent defence. The forces that can be spared here will also be moving for India. as a sidenote to prepping points; there is a full division fighting over here, which atm has about 25 prepping points for Karachi allready
Completely OT, but i was looking at Sydney today, after wondering where the allied CV's were headed and i noticed the industrial description of the Allied cities;
Does this mean that a Japanese player get Wirraways into his pool after capturing Sydney?
can the AC production be altered after conquering OZ? or can you even use wirraway squadrons?
I was never really impressed by wirraways, beaforts are nicer if available (they stand in the production que as well),
but i'd love to see a kamikaze squadron of allied planes flown by jap pilots that would be the ultimate confusion for a cap force
So all in all nothing very exciting, by now i'm not really seeing any short term CV clashes, and all things will proceed by the plan
The single Allied carrier that has bombed Tarawa has turned 180 and is headed back towards Allied ontroleled waters
The 2 other CV's are unsighted this turn
this can mean 4 things;
* My nav searchers are to be sent home for a refresshing of a part of their navsearch course, particularly nr. 2.01 "How to sight an Allied CV"
With 2 nell squadrons and 2 mavis sq all 4 set to 100 % search i'd say this isnt very likely..
* The other CV's have also made a 180 and are headed for Fiji etc, to make the long way to saftey
I think this isn't very likely because he would have all his carriers in one spot, knowing the opponent i'd say he wants carriers at several spots, so he can dictate any theatre where i have no CV's to protect/ attack.
* The CV's are headed towards the SRA to mingle with mini KB
Not sure on this one, he would remain sighted for a long period of time and be facing several land based TB / escort, but sinking a light/escort carrier
would be a big victory for the allies at this stage and set back my plans in the DEA for a period of time.
* The CV's remain near the solomon/ guinea/ eastern OZ
He is very likely starting to get low on fuel (sorties shouldnt be a problem yet) so i'm assuming he'll be topping off the fleet and then try to engage from a surprise situation again.
The question is, where will he be topping off; Darwin, townsville, or a larger port (Sydney/ brisbane)?
At the moment KB is starting to run low on fuel as well (subs just about dried out Kwajalijn before KB moved into port..),
they are moving in hostile territory where a replenishment TF isnt very safe and the location of the hostile fleet is unknown...
Lunga went to AF size 1 today, so i'll stage 2 squads of mavis over there, if a spotting stays out, then the fleet will head for Kwajalijn, and wait for Zuikaku Shokaku to merge to full strength again. If the sighting reports the fleet headed towards a OZ port i might consider a port raid, if not the return to Kwajalijn is the only real option. KB is starting to feel the long run on high speed, so i'd say they deserve some rest
Other highlights of the war:
Midway finally sees good results, forts reduced to 0 in a 1:1 result,
with lots of casualties on the allied side and minimal on ours, this, in combination with the CV bombardments will hopefully result in
a quick and decisive battle. (if you can still speak of quick and decisive after almost a month of nothingness...)
Malaya falls!!
During the first deliberate attack an unexpected easy victory is a fact [8D]
Ground combat at Georgetown
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 140912 troops, 1606 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 2789
Defending force 31626 troops, 154 guns, 8 vehicles, Assault Value = 461
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 4
Japanese max assault: 2636 - adjusted assault: 1954
Allied max defense: 414 - adjusted defense: 137
Japanese assault odds: 14 to 1 (fort level 4)
Japanese forces CAPTURE Georgetown base !!!
Japanese ground losses:
1418 casualties reported
Guns lost 51
Vehicles lost 2
Allied ground losses:
50992 casualties reported
Guns lost 205
Vehicles lost 1
Several units were lifted out of Malaya before falling, the 2nd Malaya brigade is sighted at the Andaman isl allready.
The army is marching for Singapore now, to get some rest and then we will start moving everything in place for an assault upon India.
China
the last HQ unit will arrive in Yenen in 1 or 2 days and see the start of the assault as the suport levels will be raised to acceptable standards,
bombing missions against Yenen from the Manchurian army have not been impressive to this point.
The army at Nanning & Haiphong are on the move, tomorrow will see all units leave Haiphong and all supplies being transported towards Hanoi, for a
permanent defence. The forces that can be spared here will also be moving for India. as a sidenote to prepping points; there is a full division fighting over here, which atm has about 25 prepping points for Karachi allready
Completely OT, but i was looking at Sydney today, after wondering where the allied CV's were headed and i noticed the industrial description of the Allied cities;
Does this mean that a Japanese player get Wirraways into his pool after capturing Sydney?
can the AC production be altered after conquering OZ? or can you even use wirraway squadrons?
I was never really impressed by wirraways, beaforts are nicer if available (they stand in the production que as well),
but i'd love to see a kamikaze squadron of allied planes flown by jap pilots that would be the ultimate confusion for a cap force
So all in all nothing very exciting, by now i'm not really seeing any short term CV clashes, and all things will proceed by the plan
-
flaggelant
- Posts: 262
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:00 pm
- Location: Netherlands
Running into '42
The last day of '41 left no real surprises, with everything being very quiet i'm evaluating my long term strategy and the main Industrial production lines.
planning;
SRA
palembang will soon be under siege, with 150 AV moving from Jambi (1st unit landed without any opposition) this fight shouldn't last long and will enable a closer air support for a landing at Java. In the meantime the landing at Banjarisman is taking ages, with the 3 para regiments stuck for the moment i'm bringing in a bombardment TF and about 150 bombers flying from Kendari & Kuching (accompanied by 50 zero's)
There are 8 Allied PT's waiting for this action at Balikpapan, these will be previously engaged by a smaller TF of DD & PG. I'm hoping that this effort will be enough to finally take the base, but i'm having a hard head in it....
other landings aren't rolling the way i want them to do either...
Rabaul is still hanging on, i've recently imported over 150 AV and started bombing it with 1 BB 4 CA (+escort) and with KB passing By this base should finally fall... its been holding for almost 3 weeks due to ***** 1st turn movement.. [:@]
Midway same story here, imported extra AV, which reduced fort to 0 but got jammed to. They actually got bombed by B-17 from johnston or Palmyra until my carriers showed up and shot a couple out of the air [8D]
I'll be heading the Rabaul Bombing TF over there, together with KB (to rendevouz with Shokaku/Zuikaku) to finish this battle...
So far i can say that i have really underestimated atoll/island landings, and i will be paying attention to not let that happen again!!
After this route is finished it is time for KB to head for port and prepare for the India invasion,
India
I've decided to land at Trivandium, will do some serious recon on most other places with a minimum of flights on Triv itself.
The landing will commence under the protection of full KB (with mini KB keeping up the movement against Java & Sumatra)
This will mostly neutralize Ceylon's airfields as KB will be flying missions against any base that poses a real threat to the landing force, so that i can land quick and establish air superiority from land bases.
This way KB can get moving towards CENPAC / SOPAC because my because my brother won't be sitting still once he notices lots of carriers on the other end of the map [:D]
prepping for India;
* I have 5 arm units prepping for Bangalore, in order to take this size 4 AF ASAP, seems very important that i can get a bomber base early on
* 2 DIV prepping for Madras
* About 500 AV prepping for Triv, to ensure a smooth landing (together with KB & a BB force this should be sufficient)
* 800 AV planning for Bombay
*1 DIV planning for the place before Karachi (darn whats the name again...?)
*1 DIV planning for Karachi (lots of units planning for Triv & Madras will be added to this soon after the landing)
(no prepping for ceylon to this point, will have to see what's up there after some decent recon)
thats a rough approach of my prepping to this time, haven't decided for what place my combat engeneers will be prepped,
my first estimate would be bombay, as a major city hex that will very likely be defended heavily. (other options would be Madras or Karachi, but i'd say these are either to late or to early in the campaign to)
Thats about it for planning atm, then there is the industrial issues [X(]
I knew that my industry wasn't really moving top speed, in the first week i added lots of supply shipments to my invasions, with the expectation that the homelands would be producing enough supply from its own resource & oil pool. This is not the case, my industry is drying up.
Using Tokyo as a guideline the supply depots havent been over 20K since the start of the war... most other places are in the same state..
To engage this problem i have ordered lots of supplies to be shipped home again, about 150,000 supplies are headed home right now, with most of my
invasions allready planned & supplied i don't believe it will be slowing down my offensive abilities. Only my industry is low, most units are filling out after
damage is done (due to high supply levels in the front lines [:D])
To counter this further i shut down all dock activities, slowing down every ship in the line for a couple of days wont lose me the war, but having no planes/ armament etc will eventually do so.
Then there's a little question on Witp Tracker;
What does spoilage mean???
It says something about spoilage with the remark "AF1 + ...etc "
My understanding of english says these are lost? or does it mean that this is production that could be produced under better circumstances?
and if its the second, what does that mean? something with an airfield? (AF1??)
planning;
SRA
palembang will soon be under siege, with 150 AV moving from Jambi (1st unit landed without any opposition) this fight shouldn't last long and will enable a closer air support for a landing at Java. In the meantime the landing at Banjarisman is taking ages, with the 3 para regiments stuck for the moment i'm bringing in a bombardment TF and about 150 bombers flying from Kendari & Kuching (accompanied by 50 zero's)
There are 8 Allied PT's waiting for this action at Balikpapan, these will be previously engaged by a smaller TF of DD & PG. I'm hoping that this effort will be enough to finally take the base, but i'm having a hard head in it....
other landings aren't rolling the way i want them to do either...
Rabaul is still hanging on, i've recently imported over 150 AV and started bombing it with 1 BB 4 CA (+escort) and with KB passing By this base should finally fall... its been holding for almost 3 weeks due to ***** 1st turn movement.. [:@]
Midway same story here, imported extra AV, which reduced fort to 0 but got jammed to. They actually got bombed by B-17 from johnston or Palmyra until my carriers showed up and shot a couple out of the air [8D]
I'll be heading the Rabaul Bombing TF over there, together with KB (to rendevouz with Shokaku/Zuikaku) to finish this battle...
So far i can say that i have really underestimated atoll/island landings, and i will be paying attention to not let that happen again!!
After this route is finished it is time for KB to head for port and prepare for the India invasion,
India
I've decided to land at Trivandium, will do some serious recon on most other places with a minimum of flights on Triv itself.
The landing will commence under the protection of full KB (with mini KB keeping up the movement against Java & Sumatra)
This will mostly neutralize Ceylon's airfields as KB will be flying missions against any base that poses a real threat to the landing force, so that i can land quick and establish air superiority from land bases.
This way KB can get moving towards CENPAC / SOPAC because my because my brother won't be sitting still once he notices lots of carriers on the other end of the map [:D]
prepping for India;
* I have 5 arm units prepping for Bangalore, in order to take this size 4 AF ASAP, seems very important that i can get a bomber base early on
* 2 DIV prepping for Madras
* About 500 AV prepping for Triv, to ensure a smooth landing (together with KB & a BB force this should be sufficient)
* 800 AV planning for Bombay
*1 DIV planning for the place before Karachi (darn whats the name again...?)
*1 DIV planning for Karachi (lots of units planning for Triv & Madras will be added to this soon after the landing)
(no prepping for ceylon to this point, will have to see what's up there after some decent recon)
thats a rough approach of my prepping to this time, haven't decided for what place my combat engeneers will be prepped,
my first estimate would be bombay, as a major city hex that will very likely be defended heavily. (other options would be Madras or Karachi, but i'd say these are either to late or to early in the campaign to)
Thats about it for planning atm, then there is the industrial issues [X(]
I knew that my industry wasn't really moving top speed, in the first week i added lots of supply shipments to my invasions, with the expectation that the homelands would be producing enough supply from its own resource & oil pool. This is not the case, my industry is drying up.
Using Tokyo as a guideline the supply depots havent been over 20K since the start of the war... most other places are in the same state..
To engage this problem i have ordered lots of supplies to be shipped home again, about 150,000 supplies are headed home right now, with most of my
invasions allready planned & supplied i don't believe it will be slowing down my offensive abilities. Only my industry is low, most units are filling out after
damage is done (due to high supply levels in the front lines [:D])
To counter this further i shut down all dock activities, slowing down every ship in the line for a couple of days wont lose me the war, but having no planes/ armament etc will eventually do so.
Then there's a little question on Witp Tracker;
What does spoilage mean???
It says something about spoilage with the remark "AF1 + ...etc "
My understanding of english says these are lost? or does it mean that this is production that could be produced under better circumstances?
and if its the second, what does that mean? something with an airfield? (AF1??)
-
flaggelant
- Posts: 262
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:00 pm
- Location: Netherlands
Industrial rumbling??
here's a pic of the "i don't get tracker" part
so the general question would be how do i stop spoilage??
and second on, any advice on turning the Homelands into a supply rich environment would be welcom to [8|]
so the general question would be how do i stop spoilage??
and second on, any advice on turning the Homelands into a supply rich environment would be welcom to [8|]
-
ny59giants
- Posts: 9888
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm
RE: Industrial rumbling??
What does spoilage mean???
It happens when the combination of port and AF size (actual, not potential sizes) is below 10. If your number is 9 like your example, you will some. How much and which one, I don't remember. [&:]
You need to pull up the "Industry" tab in Tracker.
Click on "Supply & Fuel."
Click on "Japan" (you may need to go back into the "base" tab to ensure that each base is assigned the correct region as you could have some in from other regions or missing some).
Click on "Resource History" in between the two sections.
Post that screenshot. This will show you and us your supply situation with in Japan. It will show how much you are gaining or losing per day.
Next, under the "Industry" tab, click on "Regional Industry" and Japan. In the bottom screen, sort by "Repairing." We will need a screnshot here to show how much industry is getting repaired per day. each point spend each day equals 1000 supply!!
Before you do any of this, go through each base in Japan and Manchuria to turn off repairs for ALL your R&D aircraft. This may be using some supply, but it will also make the sorting easier.
I usually run the turn, go through and do all my orders and moves. Save it, then hit "Alt+Tab" keys to get the game to minimize. I then copy the save game file into Tracker and load it. I usually go to Industry -Global for an overview of the whole economy (gains/losses). I'll look here later today to see what's happening. [:)]
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RE: Industrial rumbling??
From the manual, but there is a chart somewhere ...
14.8 SPOILAGE
Spoilage (or waste) to fuel and supplies at a base may occur, based on the size of the base.
To determine this possibility, first add the port and airfield sizes. Any base with combined port and
airfield of 10 or more has no spoilage. Otherwise:
Fuel over 1000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) *1000 ) suffers
spoilage.
Supplies over 5000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) * 3000 ) suffers
spoilage.
14.8 SPOILAGE
Spoilage (or waste) to fuel and supplies at a base may occur, based on the size of the base.
To determine this possibility, first add the port and airfield sizes. Any base with combined port and
airfield of 10 or more has no spoilage. Otherwise:
Fuel over 1000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) *1000 ) suffers
spoilage.
Supplies over 5000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) * 3000 ) suffers
spoilage.
-
flaggelant
- Posts: 262
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:00 pm
- Location: Netherlands
RE: Industrial rumbling??
ORIGINAL: ny59giants
What does spoilage mean???
It happens when the combination of port and AF size (actual, not potential sizes) is below 10. If your number is 9 like your example, you will some. How much and which one, I don't remember. [&:]
You need to pull up the "Industry" tab in Tracker.
Click on "Supply & Fuel."
Click on "Japan" (you may need to go back into the "base" tab to ensure that each base is assigned the correct region as you could have some in from other regions or missing some).
Click on "Resource History" in between the two sections.
Post that screenshot. This will show you and us your supply situation with in Japan. It will show how much you are gaining or losing per day.
Next, under the "Industry" tab, click on "Regional Industry" and Japan. In the bottom screen, sort by "Repairing." We will need a screnshot here to show how much industry is getting repaired per day. each point spend each day equals 1000 supply!!
Before you do any of this, go through each base in Japan and Manchuria to turn off repairs for ALL your R&D aircraft. This may be using some supply, but it will also make the sorting easier.
I usually run the turn, go through and do all my orders and moves. Save it, then hit "Alt+Tab" keys to get the game to minimize. I then copy the save game file into Tracker and load it. I usually go to Industry -Global for an overview of the whole economy (gains/losses). I'll look here later today to see what's happening. [:)]
will turn off all R&D as i get the turn back (we play a turn about every other day at max)
i like following tracker after the turn, but i'm atm unsure what to look for..
ORIGINAL: n01487477
From the manual, but there is a chart somewhere ...
14.8 SPOILAGE
Spoilage (or waste) to fuel and supplies at a base may occur, based on the size of the base.
To determine this possibility, first add the port and airfield sizes. Any base with combined port and
airfield of 10 or more has no spoilage. Otherwise:
Fuel over 1000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) *1000 ) suffers
spoilage.
Supplies over 5000 + ( ( port + airfield size ) * ( port + airfield size ) * 3000 ) suffers
spoilage.
sorry for not being so much of a manual monster.. but after seeing about 15 pages, with only screenshots i gave up on the manual, will be looking in on it to improve this.
what i conclude from the formula is;
* Upgrading to the max is a must to prevent huge spoilage
* keeping a small transport fleet at every production site to keep oil & resources to a minimum per turn really pays out!
* Some bases will keep suffering spoilage, since not all production bases are able to get over 5+5?
thanx for the replies guys, i'm still very new to the production side of the Japanese empire and (besides atoll landings) is something i underestimated a fair bit..
thanx again!
(now for the analysis part?)
stuman, here's a very steep learning curve for you (and me!), better pay attention! [:D]
-
ny59giants
- Posts: 9888
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm
RE: Industrial rumbling??
Japan has only 213710 in supply throughout Japan which is not good. [:(] However, Japanese Islands shows 203821 in supplies and Industry/Resource has 393523. All the bases under the Industry/Resource should be assigned to a specific region, so you will need to go to the Bases pull down and reassign them. I have used Tracker for some time, but usually when I start the game with it I have to go through the Bases pull down tab quickly to get them where they belong. You may need to have the game open also and use "Alt+Tab" to bounce from one to the other.
You need at least 10,000 in a base for an industry/factory to be repaired. I see that Tokyo is below 10,000 (which is not good). You need to have over 20,000 at a base for a LCU to accept replacements. I tend to ensure that Tokyo and Osaka are always above 20,000.
What industries have you expanded since the game started??
Note: any supplies on ship doesn't count for that region even if it is docked at the port unloading or loading.
You need at least 10,000 in a base for an industry/factory to be repaired. I see that Tokyo is below 10,000 (which is not good). You need to have over 20,000 at a base for a LCU to accept replacements. I tend to ensure that Tokyo and Osaka are always above 20,000.
What industries have you expanded since the game started??
Note: any supplies on ship doesn't count for that region even if it is docked at the port unloading or loading.
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[/center]RE: Industrial rumbling??
NY59Giants is correct, however you might start by loading a cluster before rechecking & assigning bases to regions... see here for details.
Then re-post the screen shots above and we'll talk more...
Then re-post the screen shots above and we'll talk more...