AE, the real game (YH v TS mk IX)

[Yamato hugger]

Ya'll want to get off my porch with this AFB Pearl Harbor on and on thingie. Think there might be 1 more available thread in Matrix's arsenal for it [:'(]

On a side note, just got off another 13 hour day and was sitting down to work on my turn when I noticed a PM from Tree telling me to go back to the older version of AE, so installing that now and will have to re-run the combat. Hope my PT still scores against that Goliath.

Edit: But on the plus side, I now have my AE code memorized [:D]

[Yamato hugger]

Surface combats went as before. Air combats were different. The minesweepers at Pearl went unattacked, but I sank 2 sweepers that I didnt in the PI. Only 1 of the PGs went down, the other was damaged adn on fire and only 1 of the 2 AKs were sunk by Bettys.

Dont mess with Jap PTs [:D]

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: pad152

I remember the 1.0 release of WITP, in that version you could get almost anything in the inital PH attack, this was toned down in later patches, so much so, that you would be hard pressed to sink more than 1 or 2 BB's.

I don't understand why it's 60% and not 50% better than history but, 10% more is not that much of a difference.  Someone will create a Dec 8th scenario with historical results after AE is released.

pad. One of the large "bones of contention" in the AE "discussion" on PH results is one-sidedness. The possible damage results on the Allied side run the gamit from 0% of historical sinkings to 300% of historical sinkings. But Japanese A/C losses run from 10% of historical to 25% of historical. So while Allied losses can be three times what they were in reality, Japanese losses can NEVER even reach 1/3rd of the historical ones. And that just ain't right!

[Zakhal]

Ill take cheese with this thread and little more AAR if possible (seems like its in short supply).

[Panther Bait]

Wouldn't the actual median be something more like 4.5 sunk.  Looking at it from a WitP float damage point of view we have:
 
Oklahoma - 100% float
Arizona - 100% float
West Virginia - 99% float (sunk but raised)
California - 99% float (sunk but raised)
Nevada - hard to say, but considering she was bed enough off to be grounded, at least 50%
Maryland, Tennessee, Pennsylvania - pretty low float, call it 2% total to make my math work.
 
So going from 4.5 ships sunk to 5, or even 6, isn't a huge leap.  Certainly not 300%.  Obviously part of the "problem" is that sunk ships at Pearl Harbor cannot be raised later in the game.  And it is probably not worth adding in some sort of work-around (e.g. making it harder to get to 100% float damage for the PH attack) just for that one day's attacks, especially if it potentially affects other attacks where the same circumstances don't apply.  We don't want BBs "in Port" at Iwo Jima "settling in the mud" to be raised later, for example.

[OldCoot]

Please send the PH on and on thinge back to the kitchen and send me a helping of AAR as soon as the cook serves it up.

[cantona2]

Any updates coming up YH?

[Tophat1815]

 Are you sure we have another month of this nonsense to endure before we can get our grubby paws on the game?[8|]

[bradfordkay]

Why did you have to go back to an earlier version of AE? Inquiring minds want to know... 

[Przemcio231]

Well i would be laughing if the thing that happend to Terminator: Salvation Game happens to AE[:)] Any way i remeber one game of WITP when i got like 5 BB's sunk in Pearl after one attack[:(]

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Why did you have to go back to an earlier version of AE? Inquiring minds want to know... 

A save game glitch with the new .exe. It was sorted out in a couple of hours; no biggie.

[Grotius]

But Japanese A/C losses run from 10% of historical to 25% of historical.

I assume Mike is speaking only of the Pearl Harbor attack here. Is this true? Japanese losses on PH day are never more than 25% of historical?

[Kwik E Mart]

Fate laughs at probabilities.

Bulwer, Lytton E.G.

[racndoc]

YH...

Other than the "no restricted units can can cross national boundaries" house rule do you see the need for any other house rules or has AE cleaned up most of the problems from WitP? For example, do you still need a "no paradrops or invasions on non dot/base hexes" rule or has the hexside control rules cleaned this up?

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Why did you have to go back to an earlier version of AE? Inquiring minds want to know... 

Because there was a problem with the last version. Dont really know the details, something to do with the save getting the wrong scenario.

ORIGINAL: AdmSpruance

YH...

Other than the "no restricted units can can cross national boundaries" house rule do you see the need for any other house rules or has AE cleaned up most of the problems from WitP? For example, do you still need a "no paradrops or invasions on non dot/base hexes" rule or has the hexside control rules cleaned this up?

Well common sense ones. like no submarines in river hexes, no bombardment/invasions of river ports. As for paradrops in non-base hexes, you NEVER could do it except in enemy occupied hexes, so that rule isnt one that needs to be a rule. As for invasions of non-port hexes, again a rule that need not be a rule since there is no advantage in WitP to landing at a non-base hex but in AE, since there is no hex control, landing at a non-base hex would be like unloading at any other size 0 port. In other words, it will take you WEEKS to unload there. You dont need a rule for it because frankly no one will try it more than once in their life.

[Yamato hugger]

Dec 9th finds me shooting up some more AKs in the South China Sea. Paras took Jolo (despite allied CAP over the hex). Invasions began at 2 places in northern Luzon. He has several TFs in the Sulu Sea and just north of it fleeing Luzon and I have the new level 3 airbase at Jolo and 4 surface groups closing on the area:
1) Choakai
2) Mikuma
3) Kongo and company (which sank several AKs in its current hex)
4) Haruna and company.

(and the Ryujo off the eastern side of Legaspi also)

Kota Bharu fell with the Indian base force being destroyed outright and the 2 bdes retreating. Several air battles over Luzon and a couple over Malaya. The AVG appeared over Changsha today. Jap ground troops moved into the Hong Kong hex also.

[Yamato hugger]

For those of you worried about such things, the 21st div loaded in a day in Shanghai (level 7 port).

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

For those of you worried about such things, the 21st div loaded in a day in Shanghai (level 7 port).

Very much tongue-in-cheek (but based on vast amounts of anecdotal information from AE team members), I can forsee the day when the unofficial title of this expansion is "AE - Loading and Unloading in the Pacific" [;)]

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

For those of you worried about such things, the 21st div loaded in a day in Shanghai (level 7 port).

Glad you were able to find and show this example..Just about 2 weeks ago I posted some data that entire divisions could load onto civilian passenger liners in a day.
With AE improving the realism of loading/unloading dependent on port size, I was afraid someone might have gone overboard with those numbers.
So long as folks are reading all these AAR's and other AE info, the learning curve will be easier. Inversely, those not reading them will be the ones finding everything "broken, or bugged"....
Just my opinion, but based on past observations.

[tigercub]

The Kates that carried smaller bombs attacked the Airfields in most cases.