Most inaccurate war movies

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decaro
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by decaro »

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader

i saw PH a looong time ago and always thought if the movie was edited to include only war scenes, dropping all the romance crap it might be watchable. i don't even remember the movie anymore, but would it be a decent movie it it was edited as such?

To make this flic "watchable," not only would they have to edit-out Afflec et al, but all the historical inaccuracies, as well as the gaffes and continuity errors; there is a very long page on IMDb describing all the inconsistencies of PH in painful detail.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by hank »

I have to agree with you guys, Battle of the Bulge was bad.  I wish there was a remake using todays technology and props to make it more accurate.  ... and actually tell the real story of the 1st Pz Army's push through the Eisenborne area.
 
I like Kelley's Hero too ... not saying its that accurate but I've always like it.
 
What do you think of "A Bridge Too Far"?   There's more Shermans in that movie than any I've seen.  "Saving Pvt Ryan" was pretty good ... Marders, Tigers and such looked pretty good.  ... not sure about the story but it was fun to watch.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by decaro »

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

How abt 1945's "A Walk in the Sun"? The cast had everyone, even Huntz Hall from "The Dead End Kids" aka "The Bowery Boys"?

Courtesy IMDb

A Walk in the Sun (1945)

"In the 1943 invasion of Italy, one American platoon lands, digs in, then makes its way inland to attempt to take a fortified farmhouse, as tension and casualties mount.

Unusually realistic picture of war as long quiet stretches of talk, punctuated by sharp, random bursts of violent action whose relevance to the big picture is often unknown to the soldiers." (Written by Rod Crawford)

Does anyone agree w/"unusually realistic"?

I recall one scence at the end of the film where the unit charged an occupied farmhouse w/their packs still on their back!
The dialogue in Sun also sounded somewhat scripted, yet strangely compelling; I often compare it w/the dialogue in Saving Private Ryan.

The most memorable scene was when they only used grenades to take-out a "German" half-track; throwing the grenades was so choreographed it reminded me of me of chorus line kicking their legs in sucession.

I think that scene inspired a similar scene in Spielburg's SPR where the Rangers encounter and destroy a more realistic-looking German vehicle.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by undercovergeek »

dont know how accurate it is but i always liked - when we were soldiers - unsure of the accuracy BTW if big mels in the cast!!!
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by US Brake »

Pearl Harbor had a very innacurate love triangle.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer »

ORIGINAL: US Brake

Pearl Harbor had a very innacurate love triangle.

That movie gave a new meaning to the term 'Pearl Harbor bombed'. After 3 hours of watching Ben Affleck kissing a terrifically unattractive woman, even Americans wanted to bomb Pearl Harbor. Thank the gods there is a fast forward feature to save using up precious life energy.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by cantona2 »

ORIGINAL: Doggie

ORIGINAL: IronDuke


U571 was the worst.

Ingenious American submariners steal Enigma, at one fell swoop writing British efforts (which included some fallen Sailors/real heroes if memory serves) right out of the war.

Ha rumpf. We do so got a U boat. It's sitting up on blocks right off the Chicago Express way. I'd call the guys that boarded a sinking u-boat armed with scuttling charges real heroes.

Where's your U boat? I didn't see any U boats tied up on ther Thames. Didn't see any battleships either. We got battle ships all over the place. That's because nobody sank them.

I thought The Patriot was a realistic war movie. American farmers taking on mean old redcoats. That movie rocked.

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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by JudgeDredd »

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

dont know how accurate it is but i always liked - when we were soldiers - unsure of the accuracy BTW if big mels in the cast!!!
I liked that film very much except for the end sequence which did not keep with the book. Wehether either were fact, I don't know...but a good movie.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by jacksy »

ORIGINAL: Culiacan Mexico

“By innacurate it could be innaccurate props, or innaccurate story lines (unless the movie is intentionally about a fictional battle).”

Gary Childress
ORIGINAL: IronDuke
U571 was the worst.
How so? U-571 is completely fictional. No such operation every happened during the war, so it doesn't seem to meet the criteria.

"...S-33, being modified to resemble a U-Boat... when S-33 sails, Hirsch explains that the Allies intercepted the disabled U-571's SOS. They are going to masquerade as the resupply ship U-571 called for, board the ship, capture her enigma coding device and then scuttle the U-571."


ORIGINAL: IronDuke
Ingenious American submariners steal Enigma, at one fell swoop writing British efforts...
Actually Polish efforts.


The only British naval action that even comes close to the premise of the movie would be this:

"On 30 October 1942, U-559 was damaged by five British destroyers in the eastern Mediterranean. After the captain was killed and the crew abandoned the U-boat, a British boarding party from HMS Petard entered the submarine and recovered the signal key books. Then two British sailors drowned trying to remove the Enigma machine when U-559 quickly sunk. However, the recovery of the signal key books was important because the addition of the fourth rotor in the early months of 1942 had prevented the Allied codebreakers from reading messages to the German submarines. The key books from U-559 enabled the Allies codebreakers to understand how the fourth rotor on the Enigma machine worked and to start reading the messages to German submarines again."


Please note: the fourth wheel was in itself not significant to winning the Battle of the Atlantic as the problem never was finding German U-Boat (Donitz was very happy to do that for the British). The problem was that the Germans were reading the British convoy codes, only once the British realized this and changed their codes did the dynamics of the battle change.



"The B-Dienst, created in the early 1930s, had decrypted the most
widely used code of the British Navy already by 1935. When the war
broke out in 1939, the B-Dienst specialists had deciphered the British
naval codes so well that the Germans new the positions of all British
warships. They had further decryption successes in the early stages of
the war; the British were slow at changing the codes. One important
code the B-Dienst could read was the British and Allied Merchants
Ships (BAMS) code, which proved valuable for U-Boat warfare. In
February 1942, the B-Dienst cracked the code used for communication
with many of the Atlantic convoys."



Did you foget about HMS Bulldog? She captured U110 in 1941 including an Enigma machine, secret documents and keys
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by jacksy »

For me it's any war film were Hollywood ignores,belittles or completely writes out the efforts of all the other allies.
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RE: Most inaccurate war movies

Post by GaryChildress »

So that this thread doesn't get locked let's all stop belittling each others roles in WW2 or any other wars for that matter. The intent of the thread is simply to discuss inaccuracies we've seen in war movies (whether it be inaccurate props or storylines), not to point fingers at who fought a war better or worse or what not. God knows, being a bunch of die hard wargamers I figure most of us have spotted PLENTY of inaccuracies in movies we've watched. Let's leave politics out of this please.

Thanks.
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RE: Most inaccurate war movies

Post by jacksy »

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

So that this thread doesn't get locked let's all stop belittling each others roles in WW2 or any other wars for that matter. The intent of the thread is simply to discuss inaccuracies we've seen in war movies (whether it be inaccurate props or storylines), not to point fingers at who fought a war better or worse or what not. God knows, being a bunch of die hard wargamers I figure most of us have spotted PLENTY of inaccuracies in movies we've watched. Let's leave politics out of this please.

Thanks.

[:D] you could say where i was heading with that then!
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by Hanal »

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

"Come on guys,give the Battle of the Bulge a break!  Henry Fonda,Robert Shaw,Charles Bronson,all great actors.
Yes it is innacurate,but it does give the general flow of the battle. From the initial confusion to the Germans fuel shortage.The movie is for the mass public who do not know the battle except for the name.Totally inacurate,but very entertaining."


Being inaccurate does not necessarily mean bad and I have to agree with vonRocko...I was in my early teens when I saw the premier of Bulge in a wide screen movie theater and was enthralled by it...there was nothing like it at the time in terms of scale and the tank battles were exciting...what did seeing the Battle of the Bulge do for me back in the 60's ? Well it got me to read about WWII and I started buildng models and creating WWII dioramas. As a bonus from reading about many wars, I had an extensive knowledge of Geography which got me through many tedious classes at school and finally, I entered the world of board gaming through Avalon Hill and SPI....So, while you may site all of the innaccuracies you want regarding The Bulge, I'll always maintain that it is an entertaining movie.












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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by Culiacan Mexico »

ORIGINAL: jacksy

Did you foget about HMS Bulldog? She captured U110 in 1941 including an Enigma machine, secret documents and keys
No, but it didn't seem to fit the criteria. The movie is a fiction account of stealing an enigma machine and dramatically changing the course of the Battle of the Atlantic.

HMS Bulldog/U110 incident didn't seem to a make much of a difference.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by GaryChildress »

ORIGINAL: J P Falcon
ORIGINAL: vonRocko

"Come on guys,give the Battle of the Bulge a break!  Henry Fonda,Robert Shaw,Charles Bronson,all great actors.
Yes it is innacurate,but it does give the general flow of the battle. From the initial confusion to the Germans fuel shortage.The movie is for the mass public who do not know the battle except for the name.Totally inacurate,but very entertaining."


Being inaccurate does not necessarily mean bad and I have to agree with vonRocko...I was in my early teens when I saw the premier of Bulge in a wide screen movie theater and was enthralled by it...there was nothing like it at the time in terms of scale and the tank battles were exciting...what did seeing the Battle of the Bulge do for me back in the 60's ? Well it got me to read about WWII and I started buildng models and creating WWII dioramas. As a bonus from reading about many wars, I had an extensive knowledge of Geography which got me through many tedious classes at school and finally, I entered the world of board gaming through Avalon Hill and SPI....So, while you may site all of the innaccuracies you want regarding The Bulge, I'll always maintain that it is an entertaining movie.

I agree, being inaccurate does not necessarily mean that a movie is not entertaining or doesn't have an effect upon us. The point, however, is that the movie was very inaccurate. Whether we like the movie or not it was, in fact, very inaccurate, which is the point of the thread.

EDIT: BTW when I was younger I would try to catch Battle of the Bulge whenever it came on. I loved the movie and it inspired many table top battles, regardless of the inaccuracies. However, I do wish they had put more into making the movie accurate. I think I would indeed have enjoyed it a little more.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by Culiacan Mexico »

ORIGINAL: jacksy

For me it's any war film were Hollywood ignores,belittles or completely writes out the efforts of all the other allies.
Hollywood doesn't care. They are in the interest of making money... if they could make a fortune showing that WW2 was won by the Hungarians... they would do that.

Accuracy and honest are not core values in Movie making.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by Culiacan Mexico »

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I agree, being inaccurate does not necessarily mean that a movie is not entertaining or doesn't have an effect upon us. The point, however, is that the movie was very inaccurate. Whether we like the movie or not it was, in fact, very inaccurate, which is the point of the thread.
I don't like the Battle of the Bulge (Movie), U571, etc not because they may or may not be entertaining, but because the Writers/Directors/etc have a great opportunity to tell a story... on subjects with great depth... and then proceed to throw it away.

They seem to be lazy.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by GaryChildress »

ORIGINAL: Culiacan Mexico

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I agree, being inaccurate does not necessarily mean that a movie is not entertaining or doesn't have an effect upon us. The point, however, is that the movie was very inaccurate. Whether we like the movie or not it was, in fact, very inaccurate, which is the point of the thread.
I don't like the Battle of the Bulge (Movie), U571, etc not because they may or may not be entertaining, but because the Writers/Directors/etc have a great opportunity to tell a story... on subjects with great depth... and then proceed to throw it away.

They seem to be lazy.

I would have liked Battle of the Bulge MUCH better if it had put more effort into getting things right. It does spoil the movie for me somewhat when you see a bunch of compromises. But when I was younger I did find the movie entertaining nonetheless. In the same way I also find some B grade movies entertaining regardless of cheap props and such. But as I've grown older I definitely appreciate more those movie makers who make the extra effort to get things right.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by sapper_astro »

Unfortunately, the Battle of the Bulge was made to coincide with the Americans upgrading their tanks. The M48 (or was it the M60?) were replacing the Chaffee's as the standard US light tank, so the unlucky Chaf's became convenient victims for shooting up by the newer tanks on the scene. Witness the tank battle near the end and you will note that the Chaffee's are unmanned and just rolling down hills/sitting their doing nothing.

Otherwise, without computers etc, they couldn't have created a tank battle that large.
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RE: Most innacurate war movies

Post by Capt. Harlock »

A strong contender for the most inaccurate war movie of all is the Errol Flynn version of "The Charge of the Light Brigade". The movie shows the charge as a deliberate but well-meaning disobedience of orders to create a feint and to get a Central Asian war criminal. (I forget whether Afghan or Indian.) In actuality, the charge resulted from a monumental SNAFU caused by unclear orders. A board of inquiry (quickly hushed up) reported in more polite words that the British command hadn't been fit to dig latrines.
 
Although, the Earl of Cardigan, who led the charge, does appear to have had talent as a fashion designer -- the Cardigan sweater.
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