I remember back in the day in WITP it was deemed that Japanese conquest of India was essentially impossible. The first time someone did it on an AAR there was much cheering and shouting. Nowadays, a conquest of India is the hallmark of a good Japanese player and isn't even that unusual, it happens in several AARs.
So, regarding AE, I don't really see what the fuss is about regarding Japan not being able to do this sort of thing anymore. When WITP came out it was assumed, without complaint, that such things as complete conquests of India were not on the cards. Time proved otherwise.
That said, I'm certain that it will be so in AE as well - there will be AARs of Indian conquests at some point, I'm sure of it.
AE Player tips - Allied
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
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Charbroiled
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RE: AE Player tips - Allied
ORIGINAL: EUBanana
I remember back in the day in WITP it was deemed that Japanese conquest of India was essentially impossible. The first time someone did it on an AAR there was much cheering and shouting. Nowadays, a conquest of India is the hallmark of a good Japanese player and isn't even that unusual, it happens in several AARs.
So, regarding AE, I don't really see what the fuss is about regarding Japan not being able to do this sort of thing anymore. When WITP came out it was assumed, without complaint, that such things as complete conquests of India were not on the cards. Time proved otherwise.
That said, I'm certain that it will be so in AE as well - there will be AARs of Indian conquests at some point, I'm sure of it.
I wouldn't say it is the hallmark of a good Japanese player so much as it is a hallmark of an aggressive and focued Japanese player. It has been my experience that in early '42, it is very easy for a Japanese player to take India....especially if he brings everything including the proverbial "kitchen sink". The Allied player just does not have enough to stopped a focused attack in India. Of course, the japanese player does this at the expense of offensive (and possibly defensive) operations elsewhere.
"When I said I would run, I meant 'away' ". - Orange
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
Ok. Last I checked this is a game right? I am sure we will all have our "that sucks" moments and develop peevs about how this or that works. I have those moments every time I get spanked because I wasn't paying attention or whatever. The fun is in playing the game to see how you do versus the historic baseline. There is only so much a computer game can do to recreate the "how it was" feel. And believe me, anybody who has ever served in the military has at least one story of "y'all ain't gonna believe this (poo)" based upon the incredible fact that true life is in fact full of the absurd and strange, and it is impossible to recreate it in a manner that will satisfy everyone. Trying to satisfy everyone creates a situation in which everyone is peeved and ultimately becomes unworkable.
Center the chakras (?), breathe deep, get the little rake out for the stress garden and rake the sand, whatever.
Let us wait and see what the game has in store for us.
Thanks to all the testers for busting their butts. (now I wait somewhat patiently for release).
Center the chakras (?), breathe deep, get the little rake out for the stress garden and rake the sand, whatever.
Let us wait and see what the game has in store for us.
Thanks to all the testers for busting their butts. (now I wait somewhat patiently for release).
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
And a Japanese player I suspect will find a way to do it in AE I just hope its one of my opponents - Once you have a big Port anything is possible and the allies have a lot more ground to defend with more bases to land stuff on.
The allies in india and australia are a paper tiger.
Lots of units but they are fragile and undertrained.
Manage to get a full strength Japanese Division plus a couple of Tank Regiments ashore with a port and AF under control and the allies will have a hard job stopping them short of the big cities.
The Japanese will not be able to conquer ALL of India to many bases to many side paths no real way to knock them all back so the thought of attacking India to close down the theatre is a fallacy you just cannot move and attack along railways the way you used to so movement is slower so 20 days from Calcutta to Karachi driving the enemy before you is not possible any more it will take months of hard fighting.
But a successfull invasion that captures up to the dead line and takes Ceylon that is certainly doable if not always the correct thing to do.
Taking Calcutta and Madras difficult yes impossible no
The main issue is that the allies will have time to react - forces can be diverted to India from the US and if you cross the dead line south of Delhi then the allies will recieve substantial reinforcements from the middle east
I would never ever say its impossible though. Difficult - yes more consequences than stock - yes, but impossible - never.
Remember before PZB did it in stock all allied players used to rush forces to Burma to stall the Japanese it was a great tactic I did it myself against Sprior
After PZB v Wobbly all allied players were a lot more cautious and the game played out in many ways more historically.
Its the same in AE there are now so many landing spots that you uncover your vitals at your peril.
I am sure players will do it trying to unbalance the AI or other players in Burma but beware someone somewhere somehow will show you the error of your ways.
Commit all your reserves to Burma or Java and if I am the Japanese I WILL bypass land in your rear and take your supply head. AE is different and slower but unbalance yourself by deploying needed garrisons at your peril.
Andy
The allies in india and australia are a paper tiger.
Lots of units but they are fragile and undertrained.
Manage to get a full strength Japanese Division plus a couple of Tank Regiments ashore with a port and AF under control and the allies will have a hard job stopping them short of the big cities.
The Japanese will not be able to conquer ALL of India to many bases to many side paths no real way to knock them all back so the thought of attacking India to close down the theatre is a fallacy you just cannot move and attack along railways the way you used to so movement is slower so 20 days from Calcutta to Karachi driving the enemy before you is not possible any more it will take months of hard fighting.
But a successfull invasion that captures up to the dead line and takes Ceylon that is certainly doable if not always the correct thing to do.
Taking Calcutta and Madras difficult yes impossible no
The main issue is that the allies will have time to react - forces can be diverted to India from the US and if you cross the dead line south of Delhi then the allies will recieve substantial reinforcements from the middle east
I would never ever say its impossible though. Difficult - yes more consequences than stock - yes, but impossible - never.
Remember before PZB did it in stock all allied players used to rush forces to Burma to stall the Japanese it was a great tactic I did it myself against Sprior
After PZB v Wobbly all allied players were a lot more cautious and the game played out in many ways more historically.
Its the same in AE there are now so many landing spots that you uncover your vitals at your peril.
I am sure players will do it trying to unbalance the AI or other players in Burma but beware someone somewhere somehow will show you the error of your ways.
Commit all your reserves to Burma or Java and if I am the Japanese I WILL bypass land in your rear and take your supply head. AE is different and slower but unbalance yourself by deploying needed garrisons at your peril.
Andy
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
For the Japanese players a couple of points to note.
Allied units get VERY strong - a full strength, trained Div of allied Infantry especially after upgrades is more than a match for a Japanese Div.
However the allies don't get that many of them in the early going and if the allied player is silly enough to commit them forward where they can be destroyed piecemeal <evil laugh>
Stopping the allies building forts and not letting the inexperieced allied forces fight set battles is th ekey fluidity is the key to Japanese success you have more opportunities in AE to flank take them !!!!
Allied forces are big, vehicle heavy, supply hogs and they are almost always short of a full TOE in the early fighting.
So many bases need to be built early on that the allies cannt defend everywhere.
Allies stand at Pegu and you cannot breakthrough land at Ranbgoon and flank them driving on Mandalay.
Allies stand at mandalay go round them.
Allies stand at Rangoon - laugh at your opponent
Allies dig in on java - thats more serious first indication they are trying that one go for the jugular.
Remember after the ealry going the bulk of KB is needed to support CENTPAC its inevitable atolls need air and sea superiority use th LCU's it frees up to keep up momentum elsewhere.
Japan has a lot of wekanesses in AE compared to stock - but some of those wekanesses can be made into strengths if the allied player overplays their hand.
Allies decide to land and take Jaluit or Kwajalein in early 42 - jump for joy if they dont get the Marines off that atoll PDQ KB will come alnoing cut them off and then a Japanese Bde or Div will land with Yamato providing support and its off to the prison camp for the Marines.
The game is hard for both sides but neither side can afford to waste assets and as the Japanese player you have the initiative use it !!!
Allied units get VERY strong - a full strength, trained Div of allied Infantry especially after upgrades is more than a match for a Japanese Div.
However the allies don't get that many of them in the early going and if the allied player is silly enough to commit them forward where they can be destroyed piecemeal <evil laugh>
Stopping the allies building forts and not letting the inexperieced allied forces fight set battles is th ekey fluidity is the key to Japanese success you have more opportunities in AE to flank take them !!!!
Allied forces are big, vehicle heavy, supply hogs and they are almost always short of a full TOE in the early fighting.
So many bases need to be built early on that the allies cannt defend everywhere.
Allies stand at Pegu and you cannot breakthrough land at Ranbgoon and flank them driving on Mandalay.
Allies stand at mandalay go round them.
Allies stand at Rangoon - laugh at your opponent
Allies dig in on java - thats more serious first indication they are trying that one go for the jugular.
Remember after the ealry going the bulk of KB is needed to support CENTPAC its inevitable atolls need air and sea superiority use th LCU's it frees up to keep up momentum elsewhere.
Japan has a lot of wekanesses in AE compared to stock - but some of those wekanesses can be made into strengths if the allied player overplays their hand.
Allies decide to land and take Jaluit or Kwajalein in early 42 - jump for joy if they dont get the Marines off that atoll PDQ KB will come alnoing cut them off and then a Japanese Bde or Div will land with Yamato providing support and its off to the prison camp for the Marines.
The game is hard for both sides but neither side can afford to waste assets and as the Japanese player you have the initiative use it !!!
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
Remember also low morale poorly trained militia will often break and surrender when retreated.
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
IMO against a normal level skill opponent there are five places an allied player can realistically stand in the early going
1. Port Moresby - if the alies get experienced forces in there they are tough to winkle out.
2. Java - Danger will robinson Java is a dangerous place for the japanese lots of bases a decent sized defensive army, easy to reinforce and supply
3. Pegu - Moulmien and Rangoon are traps Pegu in Burma is defendible BUT if retreated allied units will often retreat to Rangoon so it can be both an opportunty and a decisive opportunity - don't be to quick to bounce an allied force out of Pegu making them think they can stand when they really cannot is good fun just make sure you do have the strength to break through when the time comes.
4. Tarawa in CENTPAC has a 30k capacity garrison between all the other small atolls you really dont want the allies digging in for the long haul.
5. Akyab - Akyab is both an opportunity and a strategic blunder for the allies the temptation to hold onto it is great and I suspect a lot of players will try to do so to keep Japanese fighters away. If they overcommit sneak in behind and take Cox Bazaar or Chitagong. The rail head is a long 100 jungle miles away and a blocking force in between Akyab and the railhead can give problems - encourage your opponent to make that mistake then crush him - just make sure you can do the 'crushing him' part if you fail Akyab can become a running sore for the Japanese
Andy
1. Port Moresby - if the alies get experienced forces in there they are tough to winkle out.
2. Java - Danger will robinson Java is a dangerous place for the japanese lots of bases a decent sized defensive army, easy to reinforce and supply
3. Pegu - Moulmien and Rangoon are traps Pegu in Burma is defendible BUT if retreated allied units will often retreat to Rangoon so it can be both an opportunty and a decisive opportunity - don't be to quick to bounce an allied force out of Pegu making them think they can stand when they really cannot is good fun just make sure you do have the strength to break through when the time comes.
4. Tarawa in CENTPAC has a 30k capacity garrison between all the other small atolls you really dont want the allies digging in for the long haul.
5. Akyab - Akyab is both an opportunity and a strategic blunder for the allies the temptation to hold onto it is great and I suspect a lot of players will try to do so to keep Japanese fighters away. If they overcommit sneak in behind and take Cox Bazaar or Chitagong. The rail head is a long 100 jungle miles away and a blocking force in between Akyab and the railhead can give problems - encourage your opponent to make that mistake then crush him - just make sure you can do the 'crushing him' part if you fail Akyab can become a running sore for the Japanese
Andy
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
Just wondering Tree, In December of '41 roughly how many units of these base forces w/naval support are available to be ferried around the Pacific from the United States?ORIGINAL: treespider
Just thought I'd start a thread for some generalized player tips - this is for potential Allied players....
1. In the beginning - Use AMPHIB TF to transport Base Forces and units with Naval Support to the lesser ports first.
"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer
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Wirraway_Ace
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RE: AE Player tips - Allied
OK, after 4 WITP PBEM games I have pretty much gone over to the dark side. Bring on the Japanese tips! The margin for error for the Japanese player seems likely to be much smaller than for the Allies.
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treespider
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RE: AE Player tips - Allied
ORIGINAL: SuluSea
Just wondering Tree, In December of '41 roughly how many units of these base forces w/naval support are available to be ferried around the Pacific from the United States?ORIGINAL: treespider
Just thought I'd start a thread for some generalized player tips - this is for potential Allied players....
1. In the beginning - Use AMPHIB TF to transport Base Forces and units with Naval Support to the lesser ports first.
You get a handful (less than a dozen and some you want to keep where they are) of US Base Forces with Nav Support ...plus a handful of Port Svc Detachment units with 30ish Nav Support Squads.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Only 1 Tree hasnt been looking at a recent build the China tactic is no longer workable because most of the small Chinese Armies have a reduced TOE so they respawn with moderate strengh I think I missed one Chinese Corps but the rest wont gain strength if destroyed so na na naa na na [:D][:D]
I did miss one which I will pick up in patch 1 if the current build stands up
My main watchword for the allies is it is VERY easy to get sucked into a forward defence that cripples your army.
A lot of forces on map at the start have forces you can deploy overseas and it may well look attractive to do so but you do it at the expnse of long term strength.
e.g.
Australian Militia Bdes are cheap to buy out because they start under strength and you deploy them overseas - BUT the c 100 CMF Militia Squads in those Bdes have 1,000 prime Infantry you dont get the mass of devices you got in stock because of the half way house upgrade system.
Each starting squad has the manpower that will eventually turn into AIF Inf Sections.
Because the individual devices convert on upgrade if you waste these undertrained half equipped soldiers you can cripple your later offensive punch.
Same with the Indians you need to preserve your rear area troops and only commit them when trained and fully equipped unless 100% certain the payoff is worth it.
e.g. committing a couple of Aus Militia Divs to PM/ Gili Gili and Lunga is probably possible if you do nothing else with your PP's but A. their combat value in open terrain without forts is negligable and b. losing them will remove those forces from later operations even if you get a cadre back to base.
Small Cadre rebuilds are proibitive because of the drain on key devices.
Be VERY VERY carefull about commiting undertrained and equipped troops.
You have a lot of ways to screw up in the early game by over committing to defence.
I remember reading some threads on all of this and how the British/Indian units upgrades and change TO&E. Is the manual pretty clear on how all of this upgrading works - clear enough for the implications of certain strategies to be clear to me? Or should I go find these old threads so I understand why I shouldn't go wasting militia units?
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
ORIGINAL: byron13
I remember reading some threads on all of this and how the British/Indian units upgrades and change TO&E. Is the manual pretty clear on how all of this upgrading works - clear enough for the implications of certain strategies to be clear to me? Or should I go find these old threads so I understand why I shouldn't go wasting militia units?
From my dim recollection, the message I picked up was that Allied infantry squads are essentially an irreplaceable resource, and any major casualties will have a lasting impact on the war. If 1st USMC gets chewed up real bad in a convoy gone wrong, 1st USMC is gone, finito. If you reconstitute it with replacements, you can do this, but only at the cost of some other USMC unit being under strength or un-upgraded.
I remember this much as I wasn't too happy about it at the time, it seemed overly draconian. I'll be quite happy to be told I'm wrong. [:D]
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
OK the potted version.
Inf Squads now upgrade as before however when a squad upgrades to a new type th esquads that it replaces are sent back to the pool as the latest incarnation of the squad type.
So an Indian Infantry Bridge has say 2 Bns of Indian and 1 of British Infantry
So it has
72 Indian 41 Sections and
36 British 41 Sections.
Now if the pool has 72 Indian 42 Sections they upgrade as normal but when the Indian 41 Sections are returned to the pool they are automatically upgraded.
Why is this well Squad updates are basically small arms changes the manpower does not for th emost part become obsolete.
So unlike Stock where you had hundreds of obsolete squads in the pool and replacement rates designed to allow some units to upgrade you are now left actual replacement rates for Squads.
This has large indications for some armies.
Indian Army has very limited replacements in 41/42 because they have not yet fully mobilised and they are supporting both the Middle East and Persia with replacements as well.
As a result Indian replacements are quite low until Auk's reforms kick in in 43 and the raising of Indian manpower from non traditional sources begins with more thoroughness.
British Army replacements actually drop over time they start low and get lower - you should always be short of British Sections - gradually as the Indianisation of Indian Divs proceeds British Bns are replaced by indian ones freeing up British Squads to reinforce the British Divs (2nd/18th and 36th plus the Chindits)
NZ is very short of replacements because so many are being sent to the Middle East.
Australia gains replacements over time by consolidating the Light Horse Bns and Motor Bdes/Bns and by a relativelly ok replacement rate in 41/42 but dropping thereafter.
Rebuilding a Div with obsolete device types like the Indian 41 Section is no longer possible because these devices have been auto upgraded and device production now has an end date.
US/USMC both have higher replacement rates than the other allied nations and tend to get stronger over time although even for these forces I suspect a very aggressive early strategy will lead to prime Infantry shortages later in the war.
Infantry are a valued resource don't waste them.
In the last game I played I saved a large fragment of 9th Indian Div from Malaya - within 4 months I had sent it to Delhi where it was allowed to disband returning all devices to the pool
Inf Squads now upgrade as before however when a squad upgrades to a new type th esquads that it replaces are sent back to the pool as the latest incarnation of the squad type.
So an Indian Infantry Bridge has say 2 Bns of Indian and 1 of British Infantry
So it has
72 Indian 41 Sections and
36 British 41 Sections.
Now if the pool has 72 Indian 42 Sections they upgrade as normal but when the Indian 41 Sections are returned to the pool they are automatically upgraded.
Why is this well Squad updates are basically small arms changes the manpower does not for th emost part become obsolete.
So unlike Stock where you had hundreds of obsolete squads in the pool and replacement rates designed to allow some units to upgrade you are now left actual replacement rates for Squads.
This has large indications for some armies.
Indian Army has very limited replacements in 41/42 because they have not yet fully mobilised and they are supporting both the Middle East and Persia with replacements as well.
As a result Indian replacements are quite low until Auk's reforms kick in in 43 and the raising of Indian manpower from non traditional sources begins with more thoroughness.
British Army replacements actually drop over time they start low and get lower - you should always be short of British Sections - gradually as the Indianisation of Indian Divs proceeds British Bns are replaced by indian ones freeing up British Squads to reinforce the British Divs (2nd/18th and 36th plus the Chindits)
NZ is very short of replacements because so many are being sent to the Middle East.
Australia gains replacements over time by consolidating the Light Horse Bns and Motor Bdes/Bns and by a relativelly ok replacement rate in 41/42 but dropping thereafter.
Rebuilding a Div with obsolete device types like the Indian 41 Section is no longer possible because these devices have been auto upgraded and device production now has an end date.
US/USMC both have higher replacement rates than the other allied nations and tend to get stronger over time although even for these forces I suspect a very aggressive early strategy will lead to prime Infantry shortages later in the war.
Infantry are a valued resource don't waste them.
In the last game I played I saved a large fragment of 9th Indian Div from Malaya - within 4 months I had sent it to Delhi where it was allowed to disband returning all devices to the pool
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
Does the old devices share the TOE until there are enough new devices or they disapeaer when new ones arrive?
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
Not sure I understand the question can you expand ?
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treespider
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RE: AE Player tips - Allied
I think Dili meant for example a unit has a TO&E of 72 squads....it starts with 72 year 41 squads. Can it upgrade a portion so as to have 36 year 41 squads and 36 year 42 squads.....the answer is no...it can only have one or the other type of squad
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
Treespider.
So how, in function, do the Port Service Dets (30 Nav. Spt., you said) differ from full-blown US Navy BFs... is it just smaller support/size or do they do different things?
Regards,
Helldiver
So how, in function, do the Port Service Dets (30 Nav. Spt., you said) differ from full-blown US Navy BFs... is it just smaller support/size or do they do different things?
Regards,
Helldiver
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John Lansford
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RE: AE Player tips - Allied
In 1944 the US 1st Marine Division basically gutted itself on Pelieliu, but was rebuilt in time to have participated in the Home Islands invasion in late 1945. If as someone said earlier a division loses a lot of its strength (combat or transit loss), how will they be able to rebuild?
RE: AE Player tips - Allied
Because the replacements are not that tight for some forces you still get 54 squads of USMC per month so a Div will take 5 months worth to replace and retrain if its totally destroyed.
British Replacements start at 18 then drop to 15 then to 12 per month
Indian Army got from 12 to 48 to 60 to 90 per month
Australians
Get
AIF 4 per month
CMF 15 per month
CMF Militia 10 per month
So total 29 per month at start
These consolidate to AIF Squads at 55 per month then 40 finally 30
Basically Indian Army and US Forces have substantial replacements
Australian/British and NZ Squads reduce over time as the manpower is exhausted
British Replacements start at 18 then drop to 15 then to 12 per month
Indian Army got from 12 to 48 to 60 to 90 per month
Australians
Get
AIF 4 per month
CMF 15 per month
CMF Militia 10 per month
So total 29 per month at start
These consolidate to AIF Squads at 55 per month then 40 finally 30
Basically Indian Army and US Forces have substantial replacements
Australian/British and NZ Squads reduce over time as the manpower is exhausted
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Panther Bait
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RE: AE Player tips - Allied
Andy,
So am I correct in assuming that this new infantry replacement scheme allows "relatively quick" upgrades to new kit, but a slower replacement rate? And if so, that you aren't as likely to have Divisions in 1944 running around with 1941 squads like in stock, but a decimated division (esp. Commonwealth) will take a fair bit of time to recover its strength?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
So am I correct in assuming that this new infantry replacement scheme allows "relatively quick" upgrades to new kit, but a slower replacement rate? And if so, that you aren't as likely to have Divisions in 1944 running around with 1941 squads like in stock, but a decimated division (esp. Commonwealth) will take a fair bit of time to recover its strength?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
When you shoot at a destroyer and miss, it's like hit'in a wildcat in the ass with a banjo.
Nathan Dogan, USS Gurnard
Nathan Dogan, USS Gurnard