AI for MWiF - Germany

[Froonp]

Whatever, if you like the AI to shot its own foot (a French expression I don't know the traduction), you can go ahead with anything you like.


As Germany, when I do naval moves, I prefer them to be offensive ones, submarines, raiders, kriegsmarine, and not puting CP apiece in a sea where I could have put them from the start.

The odds for 4 CP to be sunk, multiplied by the odds of having a suicidal French or CW player willing to loose ships for mere CPs that are so easily replaceble compared to lost french or cw subs or ships, are so small that putting 4 is IMO the only valid choice.

For what its worth, I tend to do the same for the Russian, but not in the Baltic nor the Arctic Ocean that are too exposed.

[Gurggulk]

Orm,

Thank you for putting together the 4 options for Germany's convoy line. They add variety to the AI setup.
Even if they don't all meet with approval, they are a reflection of the posting of many people's desires and wishes.

That is really the most important element of the AI threads, imho. They do not reflect just 1 person's perfect plan, but everyone's participation, to a degree.

In the end it matters not the setup. What matters is how flexible the AI will be regarding each setup down the line. We as players can be faced with any of the 4 setups and make it work. Some may prefer 1 option over another, yet its how we adapt to the changes in the game that matters most.

[Extraneous]

Convoy Plan 4 (or Route 4) is a viable option.
 
Assuming that Poland has fallen. You don’t need ships in the Baltic.
 
If Germany can get the USSR players permission to rail the Swedish resources through the USSR.
 
Start Lines in Scandinavia – Froonp post #1 shows the contiguous rail line from Sweden to Germany.
 
 
 
Route is singular as in:
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
To send in a particular direction.
To divert in a specified direction.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Convoy Plan 4 (or Route 4) is a viable option.

Assuming that Poland has fallen. You don’t need ships in the Baltic.

If Germany can get the USSR players permission to rail the Swedish resources through the USSR.

Do you believe that Germany can get USSR permission to rail swedish ore through USSR ?

[Froonp]

Well, 3 or 4 convoys in the Baltic, this is not much of a difference, even if I think 4 is better all the time, having 3 is not a biggie.
What bugs me more, is that in your repartition of percentage for each route, you give route 1 50% and route 3 5%.
5% is not enough IMO.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Well, 3 or 4 convoys in the Baltic, this is not much of a difference, even if I think 4 is better all the time, having 3 is not a biggie.
What bugs me more, is that in your repartition of percentage for each route, you give route 1 50% and route 3 5%.
5% is not enough IMO.

I suggest you say what you think the percentages for the routes should be. I know that what Peskpesk suggest are merely a start of a discussion and not the final numbers. It would also be appreciated if you can suggest if there are conditions that should modify the numbers and in what direction

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Well, 3 or 4 convoys in the Baltic, this is not much of a difference, even if I think 4 is better all the time, having 3 is not a biggie.
What bugs me more, is that in your repartition of percentage for each route, you give route 1 50% and route 3 5%.
5% is not enough IMO.

I suggest you say what you think the percentages for the routes should be. I know that what Peskpesk suggest are merely a start of a discussion and not the final numbers. It would also be appreciated if you can suggest if there are conditions that should modify the numbers and in what direction

Since we are talking about setting up the German units, the only preconduitions would be how the other major power units are set up.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Well, 3 or 4 convoys in the Baltic, this is not much of a difference, even if I think 4 is better all the time, having 3 is not a biggie.
What bugs me more, is that in your repartition of percentage for each route, you give route 1 50% and route 3 5%.
5% is not enough IMO.

I suggest you say what you think the percentages for the routes should be. I know that what Peskpesk suggest are merely a start of a discussion and not the final numbers. It would also be appreciated if you can suggest if there are conditions that should modify the numbers and in what direction

Since we are talking about setting up the German units, the only preconduitions would be how the other major power units are set up.

I was also thinking about how optional rules would change things. If at all.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Convoy Plan 4 (or Route 4) is a viable option.

Assuming that Poland has fallen. You don’t need ships in the Baltic.

If Germany can get the USSR players permission to rail the Swedish resources through the USSR.

Do you believe that Germany can get USSR permission to rail swedish ore through USSR ?

Given the right set of circumstances and players.

Yes.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Convoy Plan 4 (or Route 4) is a viable option.

Assuming that Poland has fallen. You don’t need ships in the Baltic.

If Germany can get the USSR players permission to rail the Swedish resources through the USSR.

Do you believe that Germany can get USSR permission to rail swedish ore through USSR ?

Given the right set of circumstances and players.

Yes.

In my opinion the AI should never give that permission. Besides. I am not sure it is a possibility in MWIF.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Convoy Plan 4 (or Route 4) is a viable option.

Assuming that Poland has fallen. You don’t need ships in the Baltic.

If Germany can get the USSR players permission to rail the Swedish resources through the USSR.

Do you believe that Germany can get USSR permission to rail swedish ore through USSR ?

Given the right set of circumstances and players.

Yes.

Humm, they are enemies, and in MWiF there is no DoD, so USSR is always on the same side as the western allies, and always an enemy side of the Axis.
Sound unlikely, unless you're playing Fantasy WiF, and MWiF is not fantasy WiF.
As someone else also said, I don't believe that MWiF even have a feature enabling Germany to ask USSR's permission to ship minor country resources through its country.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: Froonp


Do you believe that Germany can get USSR permission to rail swedish ore through USSR ?

Given the right set of circumstances and players.

Yes.

Humm, they are enemies, and in MWiF there is no DoD, so USSR is always on the same side as the western allies, and always an enemy side of the Axis.
Sound unlikely, unless you're playing Fantasy WiF, and MWiF is not fantasy WiF.
As someone else also said, I don't believe that MWiF even have a feature enabling Germany to ask USSR's permission to ship minor country resources through its country.

Correct.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL:  Froonp
 
Humm, they are enemies, and in MWiF there is no DoD, so USSR is always on the same side as the western allies, and always an enemy side of the Axis.
Sound unlikely, unless you're playing Fantasy WiF, and MWiF is not fantasy WiF.
As someone else also said, I don't believe that MWiF even have a feature enabling Germany to ask USSR's permission to ship minor country resources through its country.

 
 
 
Fantasy WiF?
 
Here are just two examples.
 
In all World in Flames scenarios that start after Jul/Aug 1939 and before Jul/Aug 1941, the USSR and Germany have a neutrality pact in place as part of the Nazi-Soviet pact (see 19.5).
 
 
Given that the USSR could exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy eastern Poland.
 
Given that Japan could have DOW the USSR.
 
The USSR might want to stave off an early invasion by Germany by allowing passage of Swedish resources.
 
 
OR
 
I have 2 friends that always assist each other in any game.
 
 
 
 
And I thought French was the language of diplomacy.
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: Things requiring permission.
 
You can move a land unit controlled by an active major power into any Hex controlled by:
 
that major power and its aligned minors; or
another active major power on the same side (or its controlled minor countries); or
a major power or minor country it is at war with.
 
There are some exceptions:
 
Units cannot enter a country controlled by another power on their side without permission of the owner.
 
 
 
Transporting resources by rail
 
The move can only pass through hexes controlled by another major power, but only if it allows you.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL:  Froonp

Humm, they are enemies, and in MWiF there is no DoD, so USSR is always on the same side as the western allies, and always an enemy side of the Axis.
Sound unlikely, unless you're playing Fantasy WiF, and MWiF is not fantasy WiF.
As someone else also said, I don't believe that MWiF even have a feature enabling Germany to ask USSR's permission to ship minor country resources through its country.

Fantasy WiF?

Here are just two examples.

In all World in Flames scenarios that start after Jul/Aug 1939 and before Jul/Aug 1941, the USSR and Germany have a neutrality pact in place as part of the Nazi-Soviet pact (see 19.5).


Given that the USSR could exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy eastern Poland.

Given that Japan could have DOW the USSR.

The USSR might want to stave off an early invasion by Germany by allowing passage of Swedish resources.


OR

I have 2 friends that always assist each other in any game.




And I thought French was the language of diplomacy.

ORIGINAL: Things requiring permission.

You can move a land unit controlled by an active major power into any Hex controlled by:

that major power and its aligned minors; or
another active major power on the same side (or its controlled minor countries); or
a major power or minor country it is at war with.

There are some exceptions:

Units cannot enter a country controlled by another power on their side without permission of the owner.



Transporting resources by rail

The move can only pass through hexes controlled by another major power, but only if it allows you.

Warspite1

It may be just the way things have been phrased in the last few posts or I may be mis-understanding the point, but to clarify:

Regardless of who is playing and their particular preferences; Under the rules of WIF, is the German player allowed to rail resources through the Soviet Union or not?

I never played the Final Edition but under the 5th Edition, I don`t think this was a possibility (unless of course we played the rule wrong!).

[Sewerlobster]

ORIGINAL: warspite
It may be just the way things have been phrased in the last few posts or I may be mis-understanding the point, but to clarify:

Regardless of who is playing and their particular preferences; Under the rules of WIF, is the German player allowed to rail resources through the Soviet Union or not?

I never played the Final Edition but under the 5th Edition, I don`t think this was a possibility (unless of course we played the rule wrong!).

Some of us might be confusing our wargames here, or at least our editions.
1) Can resources be transfered across neutral hexes regardless of future hosilities? or is it 2) Can resources always be transfered across neutral minor hexes but neutral major hexes require permission?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: SewerStarFish

ORIGINAL: warspite
It may be just the way things have been phrased in the last few posts or I may be mis-understanding the point, but to clarify:

Regardless of who is playing and their particular preferences; Under the rules of WIF, is the German player allowed to rail resources through the Soviet Union or not?

I never played the Final Edition but under the 5th Edition, I don`t think this was a possibility (unless of course we played the rule wrong!).

Some of us might be confusing our wargames here, or at least our editions.
1) Can resources be transfered across neutral hexes regardless of future hosilities? or is it 2) Can resources always be transfered across neutral minor hexes but neutral major hexes require permission?

It is 2)

From RAW 13.6.1 :
************************
Transporting resources by rail

You transport a resource to a factory in the production step by railing it from its hex to a usable factory. It must move along railway lines (roads count as railways for this purpose). It can also cross a straits hexside from one railway hex to another. Each resource cannot cross more than 1 straits hexsides.

This move does not count as a rail move and the resource does not have to start its move at a station.

The move can only pass through:
ï hexes you control;
ï hexes in neutral minor countries; and
ï hexes controlled by another major power, but only if it allows you.

Allied major powers (except the USSR) may only trace resources through Soviet controlled hexes while the USSR is at war with Germany.

The resource’s move can only enter or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC if there is a friendly land unit in the hex. Its move must stop when it enters an enemy ZOC. If the resource is in the same hex as the destination factory, it can be used there regardless of enemy ZOCs.

Option 12: (limited access across straits) A resource can’t be transported across a straits if the presence of enemy units would prevent you tracing an overseas supply path into that sea area (see 2.4.2).
************************

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: SewerStarFish

ORIGINAL: warspite
It may be just the way things have been phrased in the last few posts or I may be mis-understanding the point, but to clarify:

Regardless of who is playing and their particular preferences; Under the rules of WIF, is the German player allowed to rail resources through the Soviet Union or not?

I never played the Final Edition but under the 5th Edition, I don`t think this was a possibility (unless of course we played the rule wrong!).

Some of us might be confusing our wargames here, or at least our editions.
1) Can resources be transfered across neutral hexes regardless of future hosilities? or is it 2) Can resources always be transfered across neutral minor hexes but neutral major hexes require permission?

It is 2)

From RAW 13.6.1 :
************************
Transporting resources by rail

You transport a resource to a factory in the production step by railing it from its hex to a usable factory. It must move along railway lines (roads count as railways for this purpose). It can also cross a straits hexside from one railway hex to another. Each resource cannot cross more than 1 straits hexsides.

This move does not count as a rail move and the resource does not have to start its move at a station.

The move can only pass through:
ï hexes you control;
ï hexes in neutral minor countries; and
ï hexes controlled by another major power, but only if it allows you.

Allied major powers (except the USSR) may only trace resources through Soviet controlled hexes while the USSR is at war with Germany.

The resource’s move can only enter or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC if there is a friendly land unit in the hex. Its move must stop when it enters an enemy ZOC. If the resource is in the same hex as the destination factory, it can be used there regardless of enemy ZOCs.

Option 12: (limited access across straits) A resource can’t be transported across a straits if the presence of enemy units would prevent you tracing an overseas supply path into that sea area (see 2.4.2).
************************

Warspite1

Okay - I think I`m clear? RAW for WIF allows the transportation through Soviet controlled hexes (If the Soviet player allows the German to do so) BUT this is not possible in MWIF (as per Steve`s response)?

[morgil]

If USSR haven't set up for DOWing Finland, there is no need for the 4th convoy.
If you are planning a Naval later in the turn, to do whatever, you set up 0, example of this would be USSR heavily on Finnish borders, where you allow the claim, and ship a Gar to Helsinki ASAP.
/Duh
Too slow to cut paste Raw
/Unduh
However, in the world that I live in, the USSR would not allow German to transport resources for free, 33% toll on the transported resources, or one BP worth of refined Steel coming back to Moskva, would be a minimum.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Okay - I think I`m clear? RAW for WIF allows the transportation through Soviet controlled hexes (If the Soviet player allows the German to do so) BUT this is not possible in MWIF (as per Steve`s response)?

That's it.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: morgil
However, in the world that I live in, the USSR would not allow German to transport resources for free, 33% toll on the transported resources, or one BP worth of refined Steel coming back to Moskva, would be a minimum.

Same for me.