AE Naval and OOB Issues [OUTDATED]

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Local Yokel
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RE: Manual inconsistency

Post by Local Yokel »

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

OK, I think I understand the point here (much aided by a second cup of coffee).

Yes, the daily capacity limit is increased only for loading. This assumes that a refinery, for example, has a loading terminal whose purpose is to load fuel onto tankers for transport. It is capable of unloading fuel as well, but that requires some reconfiguration of the pumps and temporarily disables the ability to load.

Sorry to be dense, all this was done quite a while ago and is not currently in the active memory portion of my fog encrusted brain.

I think a case could be made for changing this in any of several possible ways.
1. Eliminate the unload rate bonus - the facilities were primary for load.
2. Reduce the unload rate bonus to a fraction of the load rate bonus.
3. Provide full unload capacity increase
4. Leave it as it is.

#4 looks pretty good to me, being busy, lazy, and all.

Thank you for coming to grips with something not at the forefront of your concerns right now and clarifying matters - you're not being dense at all, as some of this stuff is quite convoluted.

The concept that a port will have enhanced facilities to handle the extra traffic its immediate hinterland generates makes good sense to me. I can also see a case for differentiating between loading and unloading facilities.

There's certainly an argument for increasing a port's overall handling capacity for loading bulk cargoes but not unloading them. The obvious example is the staithes erected in British ports in the 19th century for loading colliers: easy enough to run wagons to the end of these and tip them into the colliers' holds, but you still need a lower capacity crane with grab to unload at the destination, which is less efficient.

The only exception I can think of to the general rule that bulk loading was easier to automate than bulk unloading in the mid 20th centry was light cargoes such as grain where you could use suction.

Possibly the logic fails when you come to deal with tankships. I believe it is current practice (and suspect this has long been the case) that unloading is done via the ship's cargo pumps, suggesting that the only way you can enhance oil handling facilities is by providing additional pipe jetties, which permits the terminal to handle more ships, but at no greater speed, either for loading or unloading.

From what I've read, transhipment of inflammables is subject to constraints that tend to fix the rate of loading/unloading regardless of available pumping capacity - e.g. the pumping rate has to be controlled so as to manage the extent of the static charge generated by the operation.

Although I am much in favour of changes that produce a more accurate model of how a port's facilities affected cargo handling, it's more important to me to get a clear understanding of how whatever system is in place operates, so I can make plans I can rely upon. But that's just the way I look at it; others may take a different view.
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HistoryGuy
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RE: AE Naval and OOB Issues

Post by HistoryGuy »

Having access to the War Department's OPD records, I find it amazing that many of the problems surfaced in the forums were of similar concern to the US Army staff in early 1942.  They talk about getting lots of aviation down to Australia (wish I had listened to that tidbit before the Japanese AI sailed a carrier TF down to Sydney) and the difficulty of finding sufficient merchant and tanker hulls to carry everything where it needed to go.  I am very pleased, from the viewpoint of an Army historian, with the end result and trust that the superlative insights lent by WiTP AE players even more knowledgable than myself (and there are many) end up in a patch that fixes many of the issues surfaced in the forum.  And YES, I have downgraded the Corsairs to F4F's whenever I get sufficient replacement planes (by withdrawaling Marine Fighter squadrons on the West Coast!).

:-)
Samro11
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RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by Samro11 »

a, opps.
is there any way I can "fix" that game? RTB one othe off map tfs?
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Don Bowen
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RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by Don Bowen »

ORIGINAL: Samro11

a, opps.
is there any way I can "fix" that game? RTB one othe off map tfs?

I'm actually not sure. The condition is so complex and I am so dumb that I am having trouble figuring it out. I had hoped to get to it by now but the constant din of other (more solvable) issues has kept me and my limited attention span from
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khyberbill
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RE: AE Naval and OOB Issues

Post by khyberbill »

This thread is for AE Naval and Naval OOB Issues - post away!
I recently had some DDs repairing in a shipyard. After all damage was reduced to 0, they remained in the shipyard (greyed out) for 10 more days until they were released for service. Is this WAD?
"Its a dog eat dog world Sammy and I am wearing Milkbone underwear" -Norm.
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Don Bowen
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RE: AE Naval and OOB Issues

Post by Don Bowen »

ORIGINAL: khyberbill
This thread is for AE Naval and Naval OOB Issues - post away!
I recently had some DDs repairing in a shipyard. After all damage was reduced to 0, they remained in the shipyard (greyed out) for 10 more days until they were released for service. Is this WAD?

If they were conversions, probably.
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khyberbill
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RE: AE Naval and OOB Issues

Post by khyberbill »

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

quote:

This thread is for AE Naval and Naval OOB Issues - post away!


I recently had some DDs repairing in a shipyard. After all damage was reduced to 0, they remained in the shipyard (greyed out) for 10 more days until they were released for service. Is this WAD?



If they were conversions, probably.
I see, so unlike in WITP, conversions/upgrades dont show damage? Or just conversions dont show damage?
Thanks for you quick response.
"Its a dog eat dog world Sammy and I am wearing Milkbone underwear" -Norm.
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witpqs
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RE: AE Naval and OOB Issues

Post by witpqs »

Sometimes they show damage. Regardless, they have a minimum time. I see some that finish repairing the 'damage' from an upgrade but still have time remaining to complete the process.
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Don Bowen
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RE: AE Naval and OOB Issues

Post by Don Bowen »

ORIGINAL: khyberbill
ORIGINAL: khyberbill

quote:

This thread is for AE Naval and Naval OOB Issues - post away!


I recently had some DDs repairing in a shipyard. After all damage was reduced to 0, they remained in the shipyard (greyed out) for 10 more days until they were released for service. Is this WAD?



If they were conversions, probably.
I see, so unlike in WITP, conversions/upgrades dont show damage? Or just conversions dont show damage?
Thanks for you quick response.

No. Look at the editor value for a conversion. There are a number of independently specifyable values:
System Damage
Float Damage
Min Conversion Delay

Min Conversion delay means the ship is going to be out of service that long even if all the damage is repaired. When a ship is converted, it receives the specified systems and floatation damage. Also engine damage if the new class is of a different speed. And the min conversion delay. No matter how much resource you throw at the ship, it will not be available until the min coversion delay has expired.

The primary reason for this rule is conversion to other type of ship. Without min conversion delay, a player could convert a freighter into a seaplane tender and then use it (albeit damaged) on the first day.

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Iron Duke
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RE: AE Naval and OOB Issues

Post by Iron Duke »

the following ships appear to be of the wrong class and have incorrect ship side graphics

5058 Caribou class as a sun type-h
5059 Panda class as a T2-SE-A
5060 Porqupine class as a Esso type-T
5070 Mink class as a T2-SE-A
5077 Armadillo class as a Esso type-T
5078 Giraffe class as a T2-SE-A
5080 Moose class as a Esso type-T
5081 Whippet class as a T2-SE-A

these ships were Z-ET1-S-C3 Liberty tankers
they should have the same side as a normal liberty ship.

missing liberty tankers -- Served in Pacific

Racoon
Leopard
Kangeroo
Ibex
Beagle
Gazelle
Gemsbok
"Bombers outpacing fighters - you've got to bloody well laugh!" Australian Buffalo pilot - Singapore
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RyanCrierie
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RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by RyanCrierie »

The Tench and Balao class SS for the US have Durability of 30, when they should be 40; the Tench and Balaos had thicker hulls allowing 400 ft test depths.
EasilyConfused
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RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by EasilyConfused »

I've been noticing more invalid date entries in the database.  The convoy disbandings are often given as the 31st of months that only have 30 days.  If you want I can list them, but I don't know if they would disband anyway.
Buck Beach
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RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by Buck Beach »

ORIGINAL: EasilyConfused

I've been noticing more invalid date entries in the database.  The convoy disbandings are often given as the 31st of months that only have 30 days.  If you want I can list them, but I don't know if they would disband anyway.


I know this is a completely different game but in one of the WITP mods I played regularly, listed a date for the the production of B-24Ds.to begin on 34/42. They didn't show up and I had played through 6/42 game date before I started check back in the editor and found the input error. Needless to say it ruined my game and I was to discouraged to correct the entry and start over. So I would say a correction of your dates mentioned above should be taken as a game stopper and be corrected.
Anonymous

RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by Anonymous »

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
ORIGINAL: EasilyConfused

I've been noticing more invalid date entries in the database.  The convoy disbandings are often given as the 31st of months that only have 30 days.  If you want I can list them, but I don't know if they would disband anyway.


I know this is a completely different game but in one of the WITP mods I played regularly, listed a date for the the production of B-24Ds.to begin on 34/42. They didn't show up and I had played through 6/42 game date before I started check back in the editor and found the input error. Needless to say it ruined my game and I was to discouraged to correct the entry and start over. So I would say a correction of your dates mentioned above should be taken as a game stopper and be corrected.
Hi. JWE is out sailing and is in and out of contact depends where the boat is. He asked me to keep a bug list for him and fix what I can. I cannot see anywhere a convoy has to have a disbandonment day. I cannot list what I cannot see.
Sonny II
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RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by Sonny II »

ORIGINAL: Samro11

a, opps.
is there any way I can "fix" that game? RTB one othe off map tfs?


If you continue playing the TF will show up on the map in the days specified and will try to refuel itself at sea. Still in trouble but if you get an oiler there to refuel it it may be ok.
EasilyConfused
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RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by EasilyConfused »

ORIGINAL: Osterhaut

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
ORIGINAL: EasilyConfused

I've been noticing more invalid date entries in the database.  The convoy disbandings are often given as the 31st of months that only have 30 days.  If you want I can list them, but I don't know if they would disband anyway.


I know this is a completely different game but in one of the WITP mods I played regularly, listed a date for the the production of B-24Ds.to begin on 34/42. They didn't show up and I had played through 6/42 game date before I started check back in the editor and found the input error. Needless to say it ruined my game and I was to discouraged to correct the entry and start over. So I would say a correction of your dates mentioned above should be taken as a game stopper and be corrected.
Hi. JWE is out sailing and is in and out of contact depends where the boat is. He asked me to keep a bug list for him and fix what I can. I cannot see anywhere a convoy has to have a disbandonment day. I cannot list what I cannot see.

By disbandment I meant "withdrawal." My understanding is that the date on that is when the convoy will finish "unloading" and dump the supplies, fuel, and devices into the pool.
Anonymous

RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by Anonymous »

ORIGINAL: EasilyConfused
ORIGINAL: Osterhaut
ORIGINAL: Buck Beach



I know this is a completely different game but in one of the WITP mods I played regularly, listed a date for the the production of B-24Ds.to begin on 34/42. They didn't show up and I had played through 6/42 game date before I started check back in the editor and found the input error. Needless to say it ruined my game and I was to discouraged to correct the entry and start over. So I would say a correction of your dates mentioned above should be taken as a game stopper and be corrected.
Hi. JWE is out sailing and is in and out of contact depends where the boat is. He asked me to keep a bug list for him and fix what I can. I cannot see anywhere a convoy has to have a disbandonment day. I cannot list what I cannot see.
By disbandment I meant "withdrawal." My understanding is that the date on that is when the convoy will finish "unloading" and dump the supplies, fuel, and devices into the pool.
Hi. I am confused now. "withdrawal" is for ships and I looked and can not find and dates of 31st for ships to withdraw. What do you mean about convoy withdraw. Can you show a picture of the editor screen where this is please. I can be happy to fix these but I must know where to go.

Regards
MO
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JWE
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RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by JWE »

Yes. Have to say, I'm with MO. There is no "withdrawal" or "disbandonment" for convoys and don't understand what you are saying. MO cheched and there are no ship withdrawal dates that took place on the 31st. Ship withdrawal dates are from TROMS, so are presumed to be correct. As MO suggests, please clarify by posting an editor page that shows the date issue that you are concerned about.

We will fix what we can. Thanks. John
BPRE
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RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by BPRE »


Isn't he talking about the convoys to Cape Town? They have withdrawal dates as ground units. I can't see any incorrect date though when I look at scenario 1.

/BPRE
fbs
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RE: Known Issue - off map turnarounds

Post by fbs »

Scenario 001:

CL Achilles and Leander start the war with Ensigns as captains; that doesn't look right -- may be caused by something in the database?

Thanks!
fbs
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