The M1 Garand

Vetkin · Post by **Vetkin** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 5:11 pm

Shouldn't the M1 Garand have better stats than the rest of the world's rifles in WW2?

From what I see, every infantry unit in the game no matter what their rifle is called have the same ROF and the same 'killing' power.

Or is there already a provision for this?

For comparison:

M1 Garand - 8 rounds >semi-automatic<

Kar98k - 5 rounds >bolt-action<

Logically the Garand user could fire more in a smaller amount of time.

Frank W. · Post by **Frank W.** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 8:19 pm

it IS better in the game!!

play some US and compare

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 9:43 pm

Garand has a HE KILL of 2. Kar has only one. On the other hand Garand has less accuracy IIRC, but is still better.

BTW don't look at "rate of fire" in the encyclopaedia, that factor rarely applies to infantry.

Vetkin · Post by **Vetkin** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 10:12 pm

Ah OK, thanks guys

Any other infantry rifle with a HE KILL of 2?

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 10:26 pm

Originally posted by Vetkin
Ah OK, thanks guys

Any other infantry rifle with a HE KILL of 2?

I don't know, but I took out an armored recon vehicle with the BAR. Is it considered an LMG or a rifle? Either way, I'd rather have one of those on my side than a squad LMG.

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:49 am

The Soviet Tokarev SVT has the same stats as the Garand IIRC, but only few formations have it. After the war the Simonov SKS has a whopping 3 in HE kill.

Then there are the k43 and Stg44 of late German infantry, those are great!

The BAR is MG classed I think. Actually it is no better at penetrating armour than other LMGs, but it does happen that they score a lucky kill against lightly armoured vehicles.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 8:28 pm

Svennemir, are you saying that only the BAR can get lucky kills on light AFVs or are you saying that all LMGs can score such kills?

Frank W. · Post by **Frank W.** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 11:53 pm

i think IF you are lucky and get good angles (shooting
from a hill f.e.) ou can take out APC with any mg!!

BAR is a good weapon but i usually get more kills with the
M1 rifle in US squads than the BAR..

Originally posted by rbrunsman
Svennemir, are you saying that only the BAR can get lucky kills on light AFVs or are you saying that all LMGs can score such kills?

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 12:02 am

There's nothing special about the BAR - if the BAR can kill vehicles then any other weapon can.

BAR is a good weapon but i usually get more kills with the M1 rifle in US squads than the BAR..

That's because most of the units are equipped with an M1 while there's only one BAR. The best LMG in my opinion is the MG42. At least it's the one I fear the most

. (besides, it has the best stats)

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 1:27 am

Thanks guys. Since I have only killed a light armored recon vehicle with the BAR and never with any other LMG, I've had an irrational fear of them when I face them. I'll stop being so concerned about them now.

JediMessiah · Post by **JediMessiah** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 2:01 am

MG42...be all end all of ww2 era LMGs

(though i wish the germans had a .50 cal./12.7mm equiv. HMG)

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 8:08 pm

Originally posted by rbrunsman
Svennemir, are you saying that only the BAR can get lucky kills on light AFVs or are you saying that all LMGs can score such kills?

All MG's can score such kills. MG's cause stress and fatigue on armor/steel as a lot of bullets hit the "same" spot. Theoretically, one should be able to chew through Tiger armor with an MG, but practically only light armored vehicles are vulnerable, such as AC's, tankettes, early war tanks etc...

..oh yeah, in this sense, the .50 cals and 12.7 mm are brutal, followed by MG42's...

Frank W. · Post by **Frank W.** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:02 pm

MG42 is a slaughter weapon, i know it from my own experience at the bundeswehr. we had the MG3 what is a almost unchanged MG42 from WW2 !! mmmhhh...didn´t i write a similar sentence few days ago?? aaaahhh.... in the MG thread. there are some other ideas in the use of mg´s....

Originally posted by Svennemir
There's nothing special about the BAR - if the BAR can kill vehicles then any other weapon can.

That's because most of the units are equipped with an M1 while there's only one BAR. The best LMG in my opinion is the MG42. At least it's the one I fear the most . (besides, it has the best stats)

Ograbme · Post by **Ograbme** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:45 am

Originally posted by Belisarius

All MG's can score such kills. MG's cause stress and fatigue on armor/steel as a lot of bullets hit the "same" spot. Theoretically, one should be able to chew through Tiger armor with an MG, but practically only light armored vehicles are vulnerable, such as AC's, tankettes, early war tanks etc...

..oh yeah, in this sense, the .50 cals and 12.7 mm are brutal, followed by MG42's...

Rifles too. I've seen some Ruskies kill a Pz II from the front with regular rifles.

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:31 am

Originally posted by Svennemir

BTW don't look at "rate of fire" in the encyclopaedia, that factor rarely applies to infantry.

Rate of fire refers to the rate of fire of the unit and not of the weapon.

The weapon effectiveness is related to the HE Kill statistic coupled with the accuracy value.

All auto and semi-auto primary infantry weapons should have a HE Kill of >1 while all bolt action weapons should have a HE Kill of 1. There may be some exceptions to this rule for practical game model purposes, for example where there is a multiple weapon like the riflex5 and you will notice that these weapons often give the sound of a machine gun.

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:33 am

What I meant was: the Rate of Fire is 9 for all infantry units no matter what weapon they are equipped with (bolt action or MG). Only snipers have a ROF of 2 instead of 9.

Major Destruction · Post by **Major Destruction** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:06 am

Precisely!

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 5:26 am

Originally posted by Svennemir
What I meant was: the Rate of Fire is 9 for all infantry units no matter what weapon they are equipped with (bolt action or MG). Only snipers have a ROF of 2 instead of 9.

...and your point was...?

Vetkin · Post by **Vetkin** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 11:34 am

Hehehehe.

Anybody here play Medal of Honor: Allied Assault by any chance?

There you can get to compare different infantry weapons for yourselves in multi-player mode. The Kar98k is slower but is more powerful & accurate, the Garand is faster and has more rounds but has greater recoil.

BAR and Stg44s are heavy squad MGs, with 20 rounds, or 30? I think for the Stg. They are more powerful but often lack enough ammunition to suppress (in MOH:AA)

Submachine guns are good for suppression and close-in building to building fighting. But are crap for long-range.

Vetkin · Post by **Vetkin** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 11:43 am

Oh and it is slow to use grenades cuz you have to somehow shoulder your rifle and throw the grenade with your strong arm.

People usually hide when grenades are thrown at them or throw the grenades back. I think it is this fact and not the explosion itself that creates the 'suppression' Grenades create a distraction that is more in the mind I suppose than real.

But... in SP:WAW... a squad of 10 each throwing 1 grenade will probably be a different thing...