Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464

[Q-Ball]

Mike, sorry for all the comments:

1. What SNLF did you hit Guam with? The guys pointed at Legaspi turn one? While I hate that Legaspi landing, I would have landed them on Ambon. They can take it easily Dec 8th. Guam can't hurt you at all, it can be taken anytime in 1942.

2. Interesting that you accelerated tankers. There is a surplus at start of Merchant Points, but that quickly turns into a big deficit in 1943. I preferred to build up a surplus pool for payment later. If you drain it now, you will have to expand your Merchant shipyards later.

Nice hit on Enterprise BTW, I always try to find those CV with subs, but never manage it. I would actually split up KB to cover more area and make sure you find her (or make sure she is sunk). Check the A/C report; did alot of Wildcats and Dauntlesses suddenly show up as OPS losses?[;)]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Mike, sorry for all the comments:

1. What SNLF did you hit Guam with? The guys pointed at Legaspi turn one? While I hate that Legaspi landing, I would have landed them on Ambon. They can take it easily Dec 8th. Guam can't hurt you at all, it can be taken anytime in 1942.

2. Interesting that you accelerated tankers. There is a surplus at start of Merchant Points, but that quickly turns into a big deficit in 1943. I preferred to build up a surplus pool for payment later. If you drain it now, you will have to expand your Merchant shipyards later.

Nice hit on Enterprise BTW, I always try to find those CV with subs, but never manage it. I would actually split up KB to cover more area and make sure you find her (or make sure she is sunk). Check the A/C report; did alot of Wildcats and Dauntlesses suddenly show up as OPS losses?[;)]

Q-Ball, comments are good. [:D]

I hit Guam with the SNLF that is supposed to hit Batan Island. In retrospect, I should have sent it somewhere else. I pretty much wasted the first turn magic move for that TF.

Not sure why I did the TKs. It's only been for one day and cost <90 points. I'm rethinking that idea. I may just let the merchant ships go on normal as you suggest.

I got real lucky with the Enterprise. Actually luckier than you think. You'll see in my next report. Gotta finish the turn first......

[Mike Solli]

9 Dec 41

First of all, the 21st Division is prepping for Singapore and has begun loading.

Lots of excitement today. Here goes......

Central Pacific

Well, the commander of the I-7 didn't want to be outdone. He spotted the Enterprise passing through the sub screen to the SW of Hawaii and put 2 more torpedoes into her. Now I'm sure she went down. A whole carrier's worth of planes showed up as op losses. [:D]

The Naval Guard unit that took Makin is loading back on the transports and will head to Tarawa. Up at wake, the 4 Furutakas will arrive at Wake tomorrow (Surprise!). The invasion fleet is holding 1 day's sail south and KB is 2 days sail to the east of Wake. The CAs will pound Wake for a couple of days and the invasion TF will wait until they are under the cover of KB's fighters before they land.

Japan

About 30% of the resource cargos are in place. The rest are still enroute.

China

Nothing new. The Chinese air force hasn't made an appearance yet. For that matter, I haven't seen the AVG anywhere either. Hmmm.....

SE Fleet

Invasion forces will hit the Admiralty Islands and Kavieng tomorrow. The Rabaul invasion fleet is gathering, along with a couple of BBs for support from the Home Islands. Once Wake falls, KB (-) will head down there too.

Malaya

Those same 18 Zeros made yet another appearance over Singapore and were met by 18 Buffalos. This time they all went home and only 14 of the Buffalos did. [:D] That's 19 kills for those guys for no loss.

I'm moving south toward Alor Star with forces and the infantry regiment at Kota Bahru is chasing the two fleeing brigades. More troops are about to begin landing. In addition, forces are gathering for the air invasion of Pt. Blair. The para regiment is at Shanghai and will now be flown to Taiwan, then to Indochina. By that time, the other forces should all be ready to go.

Losses in Malaya today:

Ours:
Nothing!

Theirs (all shot down):
4 Buffalos
1 Blenheim I
1 Blenheim IV
1 Hudson
1 Blenheim IF

Philippines

We landed at Vigan and Aparri, and will take them tomorrow. Ted's B-17s made an appearance and bombed each landing site twice. They got lucky and planted a 500lb bomb on an xAK. I think she'll make it, unless she's hit again.

The Legaspi invasion force (the main effort is gathering and will hit in 2 days. They will get the support of 4 BBs escorted by 2 DDs. They'll arrive tomorrow. Ted has sent 2 DDs to harass the invasion. I think he'll be surprised when they find 4 BBs. [:D]

Here are the losses from today's missions:

Us:
3 Bettys
1 Nell
1 Zero

Theirs:
1 TK sunk
1 TK heavily damaged
5 P-40E

Ryujo saga

I figured I'd stay in the area one more day to try and hit a warship or two. Well, Ted helped me out there. The Houston found the Ryujo TF and crossed the T! [:@] The Houston took a few minor hits (5") and the Ryujo got hit by 2x 8", 1x 5" and 1x 3". She'll survive (assuming nothing else crosses her path) but she definitely has some extra vents now. The Ryujo is still capable of flying planes because later in the day her Kates planted 3x 250kg bombs on Houston, heavily damaging her (after missing with her 11 remaining torps). [8|] Now the badly damaged Houston is between Ryujo and Babelwatsit. Thank goodness for waypoints! The Houston is doomed, but will she get in an extra lick before becoming a fish condo? The world wants to know!

The Zuiho and Hosho are a couple days sail from that area. Ted hasn't seen them yet, but he will soon.

Here's the Ryujo:

[Mike Solli]

I forgot one thing! The I-6, also patrolling SE of Hawaii spotted and put a fish into the Ward. She limped away heavily damaged and showed up on the sunk ship list. I'm not sure she sank.

[stuman]

I do not know how I missed this AAR, I just caught up on all of the posts. I find it interesting that after working on my economy for a few months in a trial and error fashion that I have reached most of the same conclusions that you have. I have been running my game through all of the patches, and am about ready to finally start over against the AI ( or maybe a PBEM if I can find a suitably laid-back opponent [:)] ).

I sped my game up a lot in order to get into '44. And I feel safe in saying that the key to the long term " playability " as the Jap. is balance. A balance between audacity in the beginning, keeping the KB intact for as long as possible, and running the economy as efficiently as humanly possible. I think that properly managing the economy may even be the most important thing to some degree because it is pretty easy to mess it up if you do not plan it out correctly from the beginning and stay on top of it. It is not impossible, but not easy, to recover from mistakes such as expanding too quickly, or using up supplies inefficiently, etc.

Random thoughts :

The supply situation has changed a lot in China in Patch 2. I think it will be necessary to ship supplies in early if sustained campaigns are planned. I am anxious to see how much slower the Jap. will have to move now compared to pre-patched AE.

In the long run I am not sure it really makes much difference whether or not certain ships are accelerated, or delayed. A BB or CV here or there, two, or four or six months early just does not matter much in the scheme of things for the Japanese. It is only a matter of playing styles. Personally I would always rather have a extra carrier if possible . Sometimes just seeing a Val or Kate in a combat report will make a player slow down.

I am very convinced that using the first turn move bonus to go as " deep " as possible in the SRA is wise. I think taking PM as fast as possible should also be a goal. The KB should not waste time moving back to the HI after the raid, swinging towards Truk and points south makes sense. And I agree that splitting off a CV or 2 in December/Jan. to raid, cause havoc, etc can make sense.

I just do not see how it is possible anymore for a Jap. player to really conquer India. If it was doable in WiTP, I do not think it is now ( assuming a competent opponent ).

Keeping the I boats constantly in the West Coast and S Sea shipping lanes ( to the extent that mounting losses allows you to do so ) will help slow down the Allied build up, and is worth the effort. Eventually sending subs to the Perth and Indian port lanes also helps a bit.

I like the idea of getting to Billiton fast. Good one Q.

Taking N. Oz ports as early as possible is smart.

B-29s in the Marianas; is this really the most significant sign that it is "lights out " for us ? It just seems like when that eventually happens, it is hard for me to muster as much enthusiasm.

I am always paranoid about a " Northern Route " attack. Damn, I need more stuff up there !

Good luck Mike.

[Mike Solli]

Hi Stuman. Go for a PBEM, it's much more rewarding, and much more difficult. As you see, it's 3 days into the war and I've already managed to damage one of my CVLs. [8|] I shouldn't have gone so deep with her so early. As long as she makes port, it'll be ok. I look at it as an opportunity to fill out her air wings and train those guys up.

Comments on some of your random thoughts:

I used to think that using the magic move TFs to push as far as you can into enemy was the way to go. Now, I'm much more conservative. I will take the SRA. It doesn't have to happen in Dec 41.

I believe that the acceleration of certain ships can make a tremendous difference for the Japanese. I love the Japanese BBs. They can do lots of great things early in the game, especially when the Allied BBs are not in the area. I won't turn the Yamato or Musashi off, but I won't accelerate them either. I usually like to accelerate CVs and DDs, for obvious reasons. I'd love to have 14-16 carriers as the Japanese. It's possible to do if you don't lose any and judiciously use your excess naval shipbuilding points to accelerate at the right time. If you can build a force that large, you can have 3 KBs (3 separate fleets) with 2 out and one upgrading/repairing at a time. I've done that, and the Allied player is usually not happy either. [;)]

I stay away from India. Too far and really meaningless in the long run.

My subs are primarily a screening force. The lucky kill is great (like the Enterprise) but I don't count on it for my strategy.

Northern Australia is (to me) the southern border of the SRA. I'll take it in this game, but pull out the majority of my forces before it becomes a POW camp for all those good troops. The idea here is to delay the ability of the Allies to bomb the southern portion of the SRA for as long as possible. But, I don't want to lose a bunch of good troops there who are needed for the defense of the SRA.

I haven't gotten to the point where I lost the Marianas. Ted will never take them from me. [;)] Actually, I'm looking forward to seeing this game to conclusion.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Ryujo saga

I figured I'd stay in the area one more day to try and hit a warship or two. Well, Ted helped me out there. The Houston found the Ryujo TF and crossed the T! [:@] The Houston took a few minor hits (5") and the Ryujo got hit by 2x 8", 1x 5" and 1x 3". She'll survive (assuming nothing else crosses her path) but she definitely has some extra vents now. The Ryujo is still capable of flying planes because later in the day her Kates planted 3x 250kg bombs on Houston, heavily damaging her (after missing with her 11 remaining torps). [8|] Now the badly damaged Houston is between Ryujo and Babelwatsit. Thank goodness for waypoints! The Houston is doomed, but will she get in an extra lick before becoming a fish condo? The world wants to know!

Hi Mike,

You may have heard other AARs that started months ago talk about the new mid-ocean intercept ability of SCTFs in AE, compared to WiTP. They weren't kidding! Getting your a/c carriers in shallow constricted waters with lots of big-gunned SCTFs lurking is looking for trouble of the worst type, IMHO.

[Mike Solli]

Yup, Chickenboy, it ain't no joke. Fortunately, the Ryujo will survive.

10 Dec 41

Ryujo update: her damage went from 36-16-14-2 to 36-14-13-0. And, she's still operational. More about that below...

Central Pacific

Tomorrow, the 4 CAs will start their extended visit of Wake. KB arrives in 2 days and the invasion TF is holding 1 phase out.

The Makin invasion force is loading and will depart for Tarawa shortly.

Japan

50% of the resource cargos are in CS mode hauling resources to Honshu. We're getting there.

China

Ted had moved a Chinese Corps into Sinyang. All I had there was an infantry brigade and a couple of the really poor garrison divisions. I attacked with the brigade and bombarded with the poor troops getting a 1:1 and losing 183 to 239 Chinese casualties.

My forces finally reached Hong Kong and will attack tomorrow. Also, some Bettys out of Formosa caught another Brit DD - Thanet - and put her under. I wonder why Ted just left them in Singapore harbor? Odd..... Only 1 left now, along with some MTBs.

Philippines

I took Aparri and Vigan. I had my Tojos LRCAP over Vigan, just in case (as well as to see how they'd do). Six of them ran into 4 B-17Ds and shot one down! Later 2 more B-17s came and got past them, putting a 500lb bomb into an xAK. Fortunately, the damage was light. One of the Tojos was an op loss but fortunately the pilot survived. I checked out the pilots and saw there were 9 pilots for 8 planes and 4 of those pilots were >81 experience. I pulled one out for TRACOM.

The BBs didn't find anyone, but he didn't find them either. [:D] They're guarding the Vigan landing site while some CAs will guard the Lingayan site.

The Zuiho and Hosho arrived off the SE coast of the Philippines. They caught a couple of 4 stackers and sank the Peary. Finally one of those little DDs has been hit. I've been wondering if it was possible to hit them.

The Ryujo is heading back to Bibblebabble. Her Kates put another 250 kg bomb into the Houston. That's 4 now. If she hasn't sunk, she's definitely not happy.

Losses today:

Them:
1 B-17D
Peary sunk
Houston sunk (?)

Me:
xAK with light damage

Borneo

Well, I landed at Miri and will attack tomorrow with some naval gunfire support. I'm pretty sure I'll take it.

First real problem. The I-123 tried to drop some mines at Balikpapan and ran into one. [8|] She's not going to survive. That's too bad. In every PBEM I've ever played, I've lost one of those minelaying subs at the beginning of the war.

Malaya

Lots of troops are nearing Malaya. I'm diverting some to Kuantan. I've sent some subs to the coast of Java to hunt around and the rest of the screen has moved south to cover the Kuantan invasion forces. I've also got 2 BBs and some CAs covering them. The 18 Zeros did another sweep mission over Singapore. This time Ted could only muster 7 Buffalos for cover and I shot 2 of them down for no loss. They're up to 32 kills for no loss. I moved them to Kota Bahru and put them on 20% CAP and 20% rest so there won't be as many tomorrow. Their fatigue is creeping up.

Losses in this sector:

Us:
Nothing!

Them:

1 Blenheim I shot down
1 Blenheim IV shot down
2 Buffalos shot down

SE Fleet

Forces landed at Kavieng and Admiralty Islands.

Forces continue to gather for the invasion of Rabaul then Pt. Moresby.

[stuman]

Thanks for actually replying, I was rambling a bit [:)]

I had, maybe too artificially, decided that the long-range I boats would be used mainly for long range Supply TF intercepts and so forth, with the medium range I boats used for screening, and some hunting. The RO boats I tend to use to patrol some bottlenecks like the Malacca Straights.

I really like the idea of grabbing Ambon fast. Not sure if I have the guts to go for Timor right off the bat. But as an Allied player I know I would hate to have Jap. bases at those spots in December. Holy crap !

[Smeulders]

Actually, I'd think it a bit gamey to use the bonus for moves deep into the DEI. Japanese fleet movements into those waters would probably have alerted the allies that war was about to start, but still you'd get a surprise attack on the 7th, a bit strange I think.

[Mike Solli]

I agree that it would be a bit gamey. Also, the only way to properly protect that invasion fleet would be with KB. Look at what happened to my little Ryujo from only 1 CA. Those small carriers are very fragile now, and rightly so. Historically they were.

[stuman]

So Ambon may really be about as much as you could grab quickly. That is what I meant by going " deep", grabbing Ambon fast.

[Micke II]

Hi Micke,

I am reading with a great interest your AAR. You bring interesting ideas for alternative strategies, management of the japanese merchant fleet and plenty of explanations.

I have one question. You intend to move the 21eme ID from Shanghaï.
The garrison requirement in Shanghaï is 720 AV and on December 7th you have only 782 AV points in this town. How do you will fulfill your garrison need if you move out this division ?

[FatR]

I want to say thanks for this AAR and its detailed strategies and explanations. Discussions of Japanese merchant fleet's management were particularly helpful, as it is one of most complicated parts of the game.

[Takeshi]

ORIGINAL: Micke II

Hi Micke,

I have one question. You intend to move the 21eme ID from Shanghaï.
The garrison requirement in Shanghaï is 720 AV and on December 7th you have only 782 AV points in this town. How do you will fulfill your garrison need if you move out this division ?

One way is to move the 15th Div from Nanking to Shanghai. You will still meet the garrison requirements for Nanking.

[Mike Solli]

Yup, the 15 ID moved south into Shanghai.  I have a convoluted series of moves in China to cover all the garrisons with the poor quality troops with an attempt to free up as many good quality formations for the front line as possible.  I did cut it a bit too close and moved some unit out of Peiping while moving someone else in as garrison.  The unit in Peiping left the hex while it's replacement was 2 miles shy of Peiping.  The result was a partisan attack and the loss of a VP.  There was no damage to the industry however.

Edit: The 15 ID move is temporary. Drivel will arrive later to free the 15th up for service to the west of Shanghai.

[Mike Solli]

11 Dec 41

We started to make some headway taking bases, but lost our first ship today (and second too).

Hawaii

Off Lihue, the I-5 put 2 torps into an xAKL. I suspect she was carrying supplies for Midway. I didn't see her go down, but xAKLs usually aren't happy eating 2 torps.

The I-4 found a DD TF (or maybe it was the other way around). Anyway, she put a torpedo into the Conyngham, causing heavy damage, and getting away with no damage. She showed up as sunk, but I'm not sure. The subs around Hawaii are kicking some serious Allied butt! [:D]

Japan

The habit of the AI sending all excess resources to Tokyo is causing some critical problems. By 13 Dec, I'm short almost a million resources. In addition, I have stopped shipping resources to Honshu and am in the process of loading as many resources on AKs in Japan as possible. So far there is >500k resources on AKs. This means that those AKs are not transporting troops or supply anywhere. I really hope a hotfix is in the works. As of 13 Dec, Tokyo still has 999,999 resources and 997,999 oil. Oh yeah, I'm putting oil on TKs as well. This is becoming a concern.

The 33 ID is enroute to Burma (most likely via Bangkok) on fast xAPs.

China

In Hong Kong, I tried a deliberate assault to test the waters. 1:2 odds and 709 Japanese casualties to 496 British casualties. I'll bombard with artillery and planes for a couple of days to soften them up.

At Sinyang, the Chinese Corps is still hanging around so I attacked again, 1:1 odds, 114 Japanese to 87 Chinese casualties.

Philippines

The Scout finally left Hong Kong (the only remaining DD there) and caught a small TF of 2x xAK escorted by a PB (big mistake on my part) sinking one xAK and damaging the other two ships. The TF will make port but had the 2nd Tk Reg on board. Guess I'll end up rebuilding them....[8|] The Scout got clean away.

The landing at Lingayan began today. Aside from minor/moderate damage to 3x PBs and an xAK from shore batteries, there was no interference. Several surface TFs (including 4 BBs, and a bunch of cruisers and DDs) successfully screened the invasion (as well as Vigan). The only air-to-air contact was 4 Tojos vs. 19 P-40Es. The Tojos shot down 2 Warhawks for no loss. I love those Tojos!

The subs from the Philippines made their first appearance. The S-39 moved into Vigan to try and stir up trouble and took a hit and a couple of near misses from SC Ch7. Banzai!

Malaya

Some air support arrived and I moved more planes into Kota Bahru. The only losses were a Wirraway and a Blenheim IV to AA.

I did divert some forces from Kota Bahru to Kuantan. They will arrive tomorrow.

Ryujo Saga

The Ryujo TF successfully evaded the Houston (which I suspect is sunk) but ran into That Damn Boise 8 hexes W of Palau. [:@] That had to be the longest battle I've ever seen. That Damn Boise took 2x 8" hits (one penetrating) and 6x 5" hits while the Ryujo took 6x 6" hits, the Nachi took light damage (15 sys damage), Chitose minor damage and the Hatsukaze took moderate damage from 2x 6" rounds. Actually, I got really lucky. Here's the damage results:

Ryujo: 52-27(5)-21(4)-0 (major damage in parentheses)
Hatsukaze: 49-22(11)-11-0

They are still 8 hexes from Palau.....

SE Fleet

We took Kavieng and Manus (Admiralty Islands) and landed at Hollandia. The forces at Manus are going to reboard and move to the coast of NG to start cleaning up bases there.

The forces continue to gather for the invasion of Rabaul.

4th Fleet

KB is 2 days sail from Wake (from the east). The 4 CAs bombarded Wake today and the invasion fleet is still 1/2 day's sail from Wake. Aoba took a hit from shore guns taking light damage.

[Mike Solli]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the I-123.&nbsp; She had 98 flot damage and was in Balkipapan, after eating a mine.&nbsp; Today her damage is:
&nbsp;
27-82(71)-17(9)-0!&nbsp;
&nbsp;
She's still 15 days sail from Palau though.&nbsp; Keeping fingers crossed here.

[Mike Solli]

Another oversight.&nbsp; I forgot to mention that I took Miri.&nbsp; Total damage to the industry there (in addition to the 150 oil and refinery that starts damaged) was 1 oil and 1 refinery.&nbsp; I'm going to repair 1 refinery (I like round numbers [:D])&nbsp;and 151 oil.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Another oversight.  I forgot to mention that I took Miri.  Total damage to the industry there (in addition to the 150 oil and refinery that starts damaged) was 1 oil and 1 refinery.  I'm going to repair 1 refinery (I like round numbers [:D]) and 151 oil.

Hi Mike,

In my PBEM game, I'm not seeing the Tokyo hording issue, but I'm also using a large number of Honshu ports for offloading. Matter of fact, I'm not putting all that much into Tokyo per se. Do you think that the site of unloading for your resources / oil has something to do with the overabundance of resources and Oil at Tokyo per se?