Small Question / Recon Units

[Matthias72]

Hello!
At first sorry if my english is not so good, because
i come from germany.
I am new at WaW and i think its a really great game,
especially the campaign-editor is great

Since now i played just a few easy scenarios,
but i always have problems to discover enemy units
when i am advancing, AT´s and so on.

Do Recon-Vehicles discover them earlyer then
the other units?
Thanks for your answers.

Greetings from germany

Matthias72

[ivantheterrible]

Welcome Matthias72! Yes, units with "Recon ability" listed in their stat screen such as recon team, recon patrol, sniper, and some armored car recon units will spot better than regular non-recon troops. However, remember recon-vehicle is also VERY easy to be spotted, and therefore knocked-out by enemy AT units etc. Therefore, in my opinion it's better to use foot recon units such as recon team or sniper who stands a better chance of remaining unspotted by enemy while doing their recon duty.

[Redleg]

Slow-moving recon units have a better chance of spotting and surviving that fast-moving.

[Resisti]

I'd change slightly ivantheterrible's statement: recon vehicles spot LESS WORSE than regular vehicles, but not as good as foot recon units.
Regular (non-recon) vehicles infact, suffer from a negative modifier, when the spotting routine is calculated; so the recon vehicles simply don't suffer from this modifier.
In another words, we could roughly assume that recon vehicles spot like a regular infantry unit, but worse than a recon infantry unit.

[Ironfist]

Armor recon is good used Propperly. I load mine with Recon inf. , mg's and at-rifles. I send them to the farthest point, unload and let my inf scout for the enemy. If recon can dig in without being spoted they can plot the enemys movement and become an ambush if cover fire is placed over their position. But Infantry recon is by far the best for advanceing. A well placed Light armor unit and Mg's units can play havoc with APC's and Infantry. Thus slowing them down for an Artillery Strike..

[Ironfist]

Back to your orginal question. A cheap and effective units are Motorcycle units. Schwimwagons, and stummel units. I like the light armor units that carry 4 or more men.

[maniacalmonkey]

I like to use motorcycle units to get a general idea of what the enemy is all about. Their speed is amazing and they're cheap - just send them straight into areas you think the enemy may be in and watch what happens. Don't worry if they get shot up a bit, they're also fast enough to make a good escape. This is a good way to find out what the enemy is throwing at you in a defensive scenario, so you can move your handy mobile reserves to where they'll be most needed

If you really want to ferret out enemy positions like AT guns, MG nests etc. you want the foot recon units. US Recon is pretty good when combined with jeeps; They're fast to move around, can quickly dismount and move into danger areas on foot, and the added .30 or .50 cal firepower can make a light recon platoon a pretty effective little harrassment force.

Hmm, it's been far too long since I played US... I'll go at it again now

[Vetkin]

I have always wondered what the USMC "Listening Post" unit is...

Is this unit some kind of advanced recon unit? What special characteristics does it have (Hard to spot?) and why is it called Listening POst instead of recon?

Are they good artillery spotters?

Do they affect Command & Control? etc.

Thanks for any info

[maniacalmonkey]

I now remember why I haven't played US for so long :rolleyes:

My 57mm AT's couldnt' hit a barn door at 50 yards and my Shermans... Well, let's just forget about Shermans shall we. In an act of utter despair I'm now driving my Wolverines right up to the enemy StuG's and am popping them at point-blank range - which works OK as long as SP:WAW doesn't crash back to windows

How the hell did the Americans ever win the war anyway?

Must have been their British and Canadian buddies

[Vetkin]

Maniacal monkey, ALL of the allies used Shermans in the end because it was the only one good enough. Compared to British tanks it was a fine piece of work.

[maniacalmonkey]

I miss my tigers though

[Ograbme]

Originally posted by maniacalmonkey
I now remember why I haven't played US for so long :rolleyes:

My 57mm AT's couldnt' hit a barn door at 50 yards and my Shermans... Well, let's just forget about Shermans shall we. In an act of utter despair I'm now driving my Wolverines right up to the enemy StuG's and am popping them at point-blank range - which works OK as long as SP:WAW doesn't crash back to windows

How the hell did the Americans ever win the war anyway?

Must have been their British and Canadian buddies

You're forgetting that everything and it's dog has a 50cal MG though

[Tomanbeg]

Originally posted by maniacalmonkey
I now remember why I haven't played US for so long :rolleyes:

My 57mm AT's couldnt' hit a barn door at 50 yards and my Shermans... Well, let's just forget about Shermans shall we. In an act of utter despair I'm now driving my Wolverines right up to the enemy StuG's and am popping them at point-blank range - which works OK as long as SP:WAW doesn't crash back to windows

How the hell did the Americans ever win the war anyway?

Must have been their British and Canadian buddies

Air Power. Rocket armed P-47's slaughtered the german Armor. Some of the 9th Air Force pilots even developed a technique of flying real low and bouncing .50 cal rounds off the roads up into the belly of German tanks. Bank shots. Besides, the most reliable tank the germans had was the Pz-III series, and they were easy pickin's for Shermans. The US Army avoided Tank vs Tank engagements. When the germans attacked with tanks the US called in Air support or M-10's. When the US was attacking and they ran into tanks they would call down the arty and bypass the Panzers, which would soon be out of ammo or fuel anyway.
T.

[maniacalmonkey]

You're forgetting that everything and it's dog has a 50cal MG though

Ah, true... I'm currently fighting the Italians and they've been sending wave upon wave of infantry for about 24 turns now. My jeeps and Dodges have just evacuated evac the recon, sniper, bazooka, and MG squads I had set up in forward positions so I can let the artillery roar. A few counter attacks by mechanized Rangers have shattered their lines. Their HQ is dead and half their troops are retreating every turn (but their force morale refuses to break).

The key? MG's. Watch those squads die as the .50 and .30 cals tear through them. Muahahahaha....

As for air power - unfortunately, I have so far only been able to pick "Two Heavy Bombers" with less than encouraging results. I eagerly await better air support later on

[Voriax]

Btw, the German armour definitely *was not* slaughtered by ground attack aircraft...their gas and spares perhaps, but not tanks.
for example, after the Battle of the Bulge an area was examined where fighter-bombers had claimed 66 tanks and 24 other armoured vehicles destroyed. In this area were 101 abandoned armoured vehicles...and only 7 of them showed any considerable damage from air attack. During the whole battle fighter bombers claimed 750 tanks and armoured vehicles destroyed, while the actual number was probably less than 60, extrapolating from above figures.

Voriax

(hmm..perhaps this should belong to the military misconceptions thread )

[Hades]

Well I dont know whats wrong with your 57mms but whenever I see them in a battle they end up killing more tanks and hts than anything else.

[Tomanbeg]

Originally posted by Voriax
Btw, the German armour definitely *was not* slaughtered by ground attack aircraft...their gas and spares perhaps, but not tanks.
for example, after the Battle of the Bulge an area was examined where fighter-bombers had claimed 66 tanks and 24 other armoured vehicles destroyed. In this area were 101 abandoned armoured vehicles...and only 7 of them showed any considerable damage from air attack. During the whole battle fighter bombers claimed 750 tanks and armoured vehicles destroyed, while the actual number was probably less than 60, extrapolating from above figures.

Voriax

(hmm..perhaps this should belong to the military misconceptions thread )

Along with the propaganda about Wittmann being killed by a firefly. His Tiger was destroyed by a Typhoon firing a 5"HVAR. The Canadian got the credit because there was a big flap at the time about how inferior Allied Armor was. And while it is true that more german tanks were abandoned because of breakdown and fuel shortages then were destroyed, von Kluge mounted his counterattack at avranches with 4 divisions that could only muster 185 tanks. After the allied air planes were finished, there was less then a dozen left. To quote General Westphal; "This was the first time in history that an attacking force had been stopped solely by bombing". Also in the Falaise pocket it wasn't neccessary to destroy the Armor. The 9th airforce was under orders to conserve HVAR's. Unlike bombs, they can be brought back if unused. So when the Jabo Pilots saw the germans leaving their armor, they would just straff them and not Rocket the tanks. The German crews figured out pretty quick that when the Lead vehicle blew up, their best chance of living was to abandon their AFV and hide in the dithches, hedgs, trees etc. To get back in the AFV was suicide. So when the graves regisration people came thru to clean up, they found AFV's that had been abandoned. Naturally they were out of fuel, nobody leaving a soon to be destroyed vehicle takes time to turn it off. The Israeli's noticed the same thing in the Sani in '67 and The Coilation forces in '91. You leave the tank running so If you can get back into it , you can get underway faster. Only at Falaise (and for most of the run thru France) The Allies had such a preponderence of Airpower that they would orbit an Area waiting for Targets. So the germans never had a chance to get back into their AFV's.
T.

[maniacalmonkey]

Well I dont know whats wrong with your 57mms but whenever I see them in a battle they end up killing more tanks and hts than anything else.

It might have been a visibility issue then... Don't really know - I exchanged them for 3" AT's and they're pounding German armour like no tomorrow - they do attract a lot of mortar fire though. Another use for jeep-mounted recon: Find out where the enemy arty is (look for the smoke clouds), bomb the hell out of them, then send your SMG recons in .50 cal jeeps to take them out. The AI doesn't seem to place any real protection around their artillery, and the recon units are good spotters, so they'll even locate those tiny two-man mortar teams in a shell-holed smoke covered area.

What's the deal on buying units from other nations by the way? I was just about to purchase a few Tigers to replace my lead Shermans, but decided against it as something seemed very, very wrong with that...

[Irinami]

Originally posted by maniacalmonkey
What's the deal on buying units from other nations by the way? I was just about to purchase a few Tigers to replace my lead Shermans, but decided against it as something seemed very, very wrong with that...

These units do NOT have the characteristics of their original nation, even if your allies. Thus, you could consider them to be captured examples. EG, Soviet forces fielding a German (of course) Panzer IV, which apparently happened often enough in WWII. Or perhaps US Army fielding a captured Japanese Type 92 MG. Or those German special forces guys who spoke English, dressed as US troops, and played havoc in the US rear areas (though obviously this can't be modelled exactly).

[Tomanbeg]

Originally posted by Vetkin
I have always wondered what the USMC "Listening Post" unit is...

Is this unit some kind of advanced recon unit? What special characteristics does it have (Hard to spot?) and why is it called Listening POst instead of recon?

Are they good artillery spotters?

Do they affect Command & Control? etc.

Thanks for any info

AFAIK they serve the same purpose as special ops teams. You place them pre game anywhere on the map like a pre positioned srty request and they tun up there eventually, with a little luck. Commandos or guerrillas, if you prefer. All countries have some form of special ops team, I think. I havn't played every country, but ever country I've played had a special ops unit in the OOB. They are the best thing Matrix ever did.
T.