How to get Tinian in shape for B-29's

[JohnDillworth]

Historically, many b-29's were based at Tinian. As it has a size 4 airfield it seems an ofdd choice. The only advantage is the proximity to the home Islands. As 100+ bomber raids did depart from Tinian how do I get it in shape to do the same in the game?
thanks

[bsq]

My point exactly - it should be bigger (in stock - before any one bangs on about the editor). 100 B-29's over-stacks, more than 12 Sqns and it is maxed out on groups it so how do you get to use it properly without using the editor?

There are pictures all over the place showing more than 140 B-29s at Tinian on just one field (there were two with 6 runways between them - Tinian served just one purpose during late 44/early 45 - as a base for several hundred B-29's)

[JohnDillworth]

Here is a picture of North Field. 4 massive runways. West field is in the backround. If this is a level 4 airfield would someone please post a picture of a level 9?

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: bsq

My point exactly - it should be bigger (in stock - before any one bangs on about the editor). 100 B-29's over-stacks, more than 12 Sqns and it is maxed out on groups it so how do you get to use it properly without using the editor?

There are pictures all over the place showing more than 140 B-29s at Tinian on just one field (there were two with 6 runways between them - Tinian served just one purpose during late 44/early 45 - as a base for several hundred B-29's)

that´s pretty easy to answer: you can´t use it properly without using the editor... sure you can move in far more bombers and you also launch raids bigger than a couple of dozen bombers but as has been pointed out more than once, due to the "overstacking" you will suffer far more op losses...

but hey, that´s no problem as you get historical numbers of B-29s... lol [;)]

this can be discussed in the already started thread about the same issue on the forum anyway...

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Here is a picture of North Field. 4 massive runways. West field is in the backround. If this is a level 4 airfield would someone please post a picture of a level 9?

this isn´t the level 4 airfield (that would be a picture before 44...)

this is the level 7 airfield (the 4 maxxed out) but I get your point...

[JohnDillworth]

From wikipedia:
"Once under American control, a massive construction project was begun on the north end of Tinian, and nearly the entire northern end of the island was occupied by the runways, nearly 11 miles of taxiways and the airfield area, along with the various support facilities and containment areas. The Ushi Point Airfield had been expanded with three 8000' runways involving the movement of nearly 1,000,000 cubic yards of earth and coral while 900,000 truck miles were absorbed. A fourth runway was constructed in May 1945. Hardstands built for 265 B-29 bombers. The four parallel 8,000 foot runways are oriented nearly east-west. North Field was, at the time, the largest airfield in the world.

So if North Field was the largest airfield in the world I nominate it for promotion to a level 9 airfield. Guess I will figure out how to work the editor

[Astarix]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

From wikipedia:
"Once under American control, a massive construction project was begun on the north end of Tinian, and nearly the entire northern end of the island was occupied by the runways, nearly 11 miles of taxiways and the airfield area, along with the various support facilities and containment areas. The Ushi Point Airfield had been expanded with three 8000' runways involving the movement of nearly 1,000,000 cubic yards of earth and coral while 900,000 truck miles were absorbed. A fourth runway was constructed in May 1945. Hardstands built for 265 B-29 bombers. The four parallel 8,000 foot runways are oriented nearly east-west. North Field was, at the time, the largest airfield in the world.

So if North Field was the largest airfield in the world I nominate it for promotion to a level 9 airfield. Guess I will figure out how to work the editor

You don't need to work the editor, you need an very large air HQ or command HQ that has the same HQ as Tinian. Each point in the command radius = 1 additional point in the airfield size. So if you have Tinian built up to level 7 and put an HQ with a 9 command radius, this will give you a size 16 AF (16 Squadrons w/o over-stacking). Given the size of the B-29 squadrons you should be able to easily base the 250 AC as historical. Don't forget to put at least 250 AV support on the Island.

[JohnDillworth]

this is the level 7 airfield (the 4 maxed out) but I get your point...

It is a level 9. Biggest in the world and knowing the U.S. logistics system probably the best supplied. I was probably a level 4 under Japanese management. That was part of the US charm. They saw engineering potential where the Japanese did not (if I recall the Japanese had Buna, but the U.S. saw the potential and created Dubarora). Moreover, seeing the potential, they wre able to execute on a massive scale. The Island looks like it going to sink under all the equipment they had there. The Japanese could have made quite a mess if they had any attack potential at all.

[bsq]

ORIGINAL: Astarix

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

From wikipedia:
"Once under American control, a massive construction project was begun on the north end of Tinian, and nearly the entire northern end of the island was occupied by the runways, nearly 11 miles of taxiways and the airfield area, along with the various support facilities and containment areas. The Ushi Point Airfield had been expanded with three 8000' runways involving the movement of nearly 1,000,000 cubic yards of earth and coral while 900,000 truck miles were absorbed. A fourth runway was constructed in May 1945. Hardstands built for 265 B-29 bombers. The four parallel 8,000 foot runways are oriented nearly east-west. North Field was, at the time, the largest airfield in the world.

So if North Field was the largest airfield in the world I nominate it for promotion to a level 9 airfield. Guess I will figure out how to work the editor

You don't need to work the editor, you need an very large air HQ or command HQ that has the same HQ as Tinian. Each point in the command radius = 1 additional point in the airfield size. So if you have Tinian built up to level 7 and put an HQ with a 9 command radius, this will give you a size 16 AF (16 Squadrons w/o over-stacking). Given the size of the B-29 squadrons you should be able to easily base the 250 AC as historical. Don't forget to put at least 250 AV support on the Island.

No you can't - it may seem that you can, but you can't. You get maxed out at 12 groups and around 350 engine points (less than 100 planes). I have tried this repeatedly and it does not work as you describe. The other thing is that air support seems to max out at 240.

BTW the 250 historical aircraft were just at North Field - West Field also had a Bomb Wing ( =4 BG = 12 BS = 240 B-29's), so you are looking to house almost 500 minimum and you can only do that on a REAL size 9 airfield (ie a location with an SPS of 6 or more).

[bsq]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

this is the level 7 airfield (the 4 maxed out) but I get your point...

It is a level 9. Biggest in the world and knowing the U.S. logistics system probably the best supplied. I was probably a level 4 under Japanese management. That was part of the US charm. They saw engineering potential where the Japanese did not (if I recall the Japanese had Buna, but the U.S. saw the potential and created Dubarora). Moreover, seeing the potential, they wre able to execute on a massive scale. The Island looks like it going to sink under all the equipment they had there. The Japanese could have made quite a mess if they had any attack potential at all.

Ignore...

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

this is the level 7 airfield (the 4 maxed out) but I get your point...

It is a level 9. Biggest in the world and knowing the U.S. logistics system probably the best supplied. I was probably a level 4 under Japanese management. That was part of the US charm. They saw engineering potential where the Japanese did not (if I recall the Japanese had Buna, but the U.S. saw the potential and created Dubarora). Moreover, seeing the potential, they wre able to execute on a massive scale. The Island looks like it going to sink under all the equipment they had there. The Japanese could have made quite a mess if they had any attack potential at all.

you seem to may have misuderstood me. You´ve posted a picture and referred to it as a LEVEL 4 in the game (which would be before the US built it up) and I´ve said the picture you´ve posted would be the level 7 (the maxxed out af). You can´t post a pic from late 44 or 45 and compare it to a size (in game) of 42.

We do agree though that it should be possible to build a level 9 there.

[JohnDillworth]

you seem to may have misuderstood me. You´ve posted a picture and referred to it as a LEVEL 4 in the game (which would be before the US built it up) and I´ve said the picture you´ve posted would be the level 7 (the maxxed out af). You can´t post a pic from late 44 or 45 and compare it to a size (in game) of 42.

agreed. Actually I am in May 44 and I am about to take it (I hope) I have my b-29's in Burma and there a lot more fields to base these at but I can't seem to get them within range of any heavy Industry except Saigon and Bangkok. I believe the photo is from May 45 or later as that was when the 4th runway was added. I still think it was praobly a level 9 before that as it had 5 8,000 foot runways on the Island.

[mutterfudder]

What yall need is a save game editor.
With this editor, one could make the ajustments without having to start the whole game from the beginning.

[stuman]

As I play the Japanese and tend to only build it up to a size 4, are you guys saying that no matter the number of eng. units and amount of supplies you pour into Tinian you can only build it up to a size 7 ?

[Barb]

Well. For max use: build up to 7 and add XX Air Force HQ.

1) The game was designed with overstacking in mind! Overstacking is used to slow things down in game. IRL squadrons were sending 3-6 planes on a mission, not 12 or 16. Especially bomber squadrons. For example normal B-25 or A-20 squadron in 1944 was 6 plane formation for major attack on airfield and 2 plane sections for barge hunt. More planes were sent only for special missions (like Bismarck sea battle or Rabaul strike) requiring lot of time to prepare.

2) While North field can be largest airfield in the world at that time, I doubt it has same capacity as all Oahu airfields combined when build up to max

[JohnDillworth]

2) While North field can be largest airfield in the world at that time, I doubt it has same capacity as all Oahu airfields combined when build up to max

I don't know if there is a way to provide it but I submit it had greater capacity than Oahu. It served no other purpose but to launch heavy bombers. It was concentrated, it had a unending, uninterrupted amount of supply, it had dedicated , enclosed work spaces, it could service the largest bomber in the world, it had individual pads and work areas for 250 very heavy bombers,it was perfectly flat to allow unimpeded approach and departure. It can, and did, launch heavy raids with hundreds of aircraft day after day, month after month. Hell, it had nuclear wapons facilities. Sorry level 7 is not good enough. This is a 10. Wellington, Rabual, Port Morseby about a dozen Russian bases are 9's there are plenty of level 9 bases and this is a 4? It does not make sense. This was the largest airfield in the world. Not just in theory, but in practice. History shows what this airfield was capable of and the game does not accurately reflect this.

[wwengr]

ORIGINAL: Barb

2) While North field can be largest airfield in the world at that time, I doubt it has same capacity as all Oahu airfields combined when build up to max

It's not just the runways. It's the capacity of the base to handle all necessary activities.

Oahu:
NAS Ford Island - 1 Runway
NAS Keneohe Bay - 3 Runways
Ewa Marine Air Station - 3 Runways
Hickham Field - 1 Runway
Bellows Field - 5 Runways
Wheeler Field - 2 Runways
Kahuku Army Airfield - 2 Runways
Haleiwa Fighter Strip - 1 runway
Mokuleia Army Airfield - 1 Runway
Kipapa Army Airfield - 2 Runways
Kualoa Army Airfield - 1 Runway

While there was an issue of air congestion with the three fields around Pearl Harbor, all of these airfields had their own traffic patterns and air traffic control. Space to park planes, fuel storage, ammunition storage, hangars, barracks, mess halls, vehicle parking, road access, etc. was probably an order of magnitude greater than that on Tinian.

Note: numerous other examples. San Diego was actually 10 different airfields.

Another consideration is that the maximum operational tempo for running raids out of Tinian over Japan was 1 sortie every three days for a squadron. It took one day mission prep and training, One day for the mission (15 - 17 hour round trip), and one day rest. At peak, there were 6 groups between the two field on Tinian with 18 squadrons. Using a 3-day cycle, this works out to 6 Squadrons flying, 6 training, and 6 on stand down. By the rules (not sure if the code effectively does it), that is 6 + 1 Air Groups, below the Administrative limit. But it does not beat the engine limit, even with 2/3 of the aircraft counting as 1/3. Can't do it without overstacking.

Regardless, I agree that the rules seem to preclude the possibility of launching the big raids that historically occured.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: stuman

As I play the Japanese and tend to only build it up to a size 4, are you guys saying that no matter the number of eng. units and amount of supplies you pour into Tinian you can only build it up to a size 7 ?

exactly, you can never build something higher than 3 levels over the normal size. And normal size for Tinian is set to 4.

[jomni]

Yup building 3 levels beyond max is possible but it takes more time than usual.
So the question is, can you hold the island once the US starts their invasions?

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: stuman

As I play the Japanese and tend to only build it up to a size 4, are you guys saying that no matter the number of eng. units and amount of supplies you pour into Tinian you can only build it up to a size 7 ?

exactly, you can never build something higher than 3 levels over the normal size. And normal size for Tinian is set to 4.

Ah yes, I had forgotten that. As Japan I so rarely have time. or resouces, to build much over 6/7 tbh [:)]