HPS new games

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Prince of Eckmühl
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

ORIGINAL: garymc

Did you get my email yesterday?

Nah, but that might be because of my control panel settings.
There is a general forum for HPS games at http://hpssims.com.c7.previewyoursite.com/forums/ though, I admit, it's not hugely busy much of the time.

Ah, the SDC forum. I had checked there for Midway specific game information, but the pickins' were mighty slim. This is a great little game, but there's stuff that happens with aircraft handling that just mystifies me. In particular, my inability to coax aircraft into the air is frustrating. The usual suspects:

1) The Carrier must be headed into the wind - Green Light
2) The Carrier can't be going too fast or too slow - Green Light
3) The Carrier can't be spotting aircraft - Green Light
4) The aircraft themselves have to be spotted and ready - Green Light

Anyway, sometimes it seems like that I have to do a "snake-dance" to get things moving. I try using LAUNCH from the aircraft dialogue, or by selecting the a/c then right clicking on the map, or allowing the aircraft to take off on their own (having been assigned to a mission, Patrol for instance). Some days the magic works, some days it doesn't. [;)]
Anyway, all carriers can only do one deck operation at a time. You can launch, land or spot at any given moment, but not a mixture of them.

I know that you guys researched the heck out of this, but I can swear that I've seen footage of aircraft emerging from below-deck on a hanger-lift while aircraft were taking off in front of it. Obviously, they couldn't use the forward elevator in this situation, but I'd think that the aft or amidships lift could be operational. I also think that I've seen video of the elevators in use while landings were taking place.
As to the docs, those are done by JT himself, but I'll certainly pass that along :)

This might be a case of y'all being too close to your own work. You're so familiar with the game that much of what you do with the interface is programmed into your neural-pathways! However, many of your customers will find aspects of the game a tangle to negotiate. Above, I mentioned that I sometimes have difficulty getting aircraft into the air. One way that I've found to straighten out a problem operation is to go into the PACKAGE DIALOGUE and DELETE the package (gulp), which brings me to the only pertinent text that I've been able to find pertaining to that interface, page 9 of the Getting Started Help File:

"You can review all the missions, or “packages” you have assigned by clicking the “Packages” button in the Aircraft Dialog and opening up the Package Dialog pictured above.

You gotta admit, Gary, that's a pretty skimpy treatment of that particular interface. [:)]

Anyway, enough with the grousing! The game is a lot of fun. I think that it would be really swell to play online, competitively or Co-op against the AI. I've been playing all afternoon, BTW, with Victory at Sea blaring in the background. I managed to sink the Hiryu in the tutorial, but the Saratoga was also sunk and all her aircraft were lost as well. I'll just have to keep at it.
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Ashtur
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Ashtur »

The info in the "Aircraft Missions" section in the main User Manual (F2 when in game) didn't help? There's a bit more info there.
diablo1
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RE: HPS new games

Post by diablo1 »

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

ORIGINAL: Grim.Reaper

Yet again I was weak and I have also placed an order, even as I was awaiting more feedback:)

Something about Midway. I have always enjoyed playing that battle in other wargames. I even remeber playing it on the Commodore 64 (could have been Vic-20, can't remember which one since I had both) as a game with a bunch of dots and on a tape:)
I played it on the C-64,...as a matter of fact it was the first PC wargame I ever played.

"One of the oldest naval wargames ever made, Avalon Hill's Battle for Midway (a.k.a. Midway Campaign) is a very primitive ASCII wargame written entirely in BASIC that simulates the battle of Midway Island in World War II. "

It used * as I recall and letters like H E Y for Carriers. You can still play it using DOSBox
http://www.squakenet.com/computer_games ... nload.html

My favorite is still SSI's Carrier Force which I think later turned into Carrier Strike. I liked it better because it was even more tactical as you had to turn into the wind to launch and land planes and had to move your squadrons individually searching for the Jap carriers. Then Carriers at War came along but it felt too automated and reduced the amount of things you could do during the battle.
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Prince of Eckmühl
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

ORIGINAL: garymc

The info in the "Aircraft Missions" section in the main User Manual (F2 when in game) didn't help? There's a bit more info there.

Pages 31-34? I read it and it helps, but I'm still having trouble at times getting aircraft aloft. This may be because I'm misnaming the mission or package.

Question: Do groups of aircraft have to have a mission name, or can they just be left as generic patrol, search or strike missions, as they do by default if they're not named?

BTW, I don't believe that there's any information about using the PACKAGE DIALOGUE in the User's Manual at all.
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Ashtur
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Ashtur »

The Package Dialogue Info is in the "General Help" file (F1), page 21

You can leave them with a generic name, though it's helpful to name them for your own sake :)
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Grim.Reaper
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Grim.Reaper »

ORIGINAL: diablo1
ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

ORIGINAL: Grim.Reaper

Yet again I was weak and I have also placed an order, even as I was awaiting more feedback:)

Something about Midway. I have always enjoyed playing that battle in other wargames. I even remeber playing it on the Commodore 64 (could have been Vic-20, can't remember which one since I had both) as a game with a bunch of dots and on a tape:)
I played it on the C-64,...as a matter of fact it was the first PC wargame I ever played.

"One of the oldest naval wargames ever made, Avalon Hill's Battle for Midway (a.k.a. Midway Campaign) is a very primitive ASCII wargame written entirely in BASIC that simulates the battle of Midway Island in World War II. "

It used * as I recall and letters like H E Y for Carriers. You can still play it using DOSBox
http://www.squakenet.com/computer_games ... nload.html

My favorite is still SSI's Carrier Force which I think later turned into Carrier Strike. I liked it better because it was even more tactical as you had to turn into the wind to launch and land planes and had to move your squadrons individually searching for the Jap carriers. Then Carriers at War came along but it felt too automated and reduced the amount of things you could do during the battle.
Yes, this was it!! I still remember that box art. I really liked the box art from all the SSI games, something I miss being able to see in the stores:(
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Prince of Eckmühl
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

ORIGINAL: garymc

The Package Dialogue Info is in the "General Help" file (F1), page 21

You can leave them with a generic name, though it's helpful to name them for your own sake :)

Ah, it's in yet another PDF file!

That's some vital info there, and answers yet more questions. For instance, I was wondering how to push a TBD strike off the deck BEFORE the SBD strike. The problem was that SBD appear further up the queue than the torpedo bombers. By default, the SBD were going to take off first, UNLESS, I waited to put the SBD strike together after the TBD had all launched. If I'm reading the in-game PDF correctly, I can force the torpedo-bomber strike ahead of the dive-bombers by selecting the VT-strike in the PACKAGES Dialogue and selecting ACTIVATE.

This is progress; this is good.
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Prince of Eckmühl
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

ORIGINAL: diablo1

My favorite is still SSI's Carrier Force which I think later turned into Carrier Strike. I liked it better because it was even more tactical as you had to turn into the wind to launch and land planes and had to move your squadrons individually searching for the Jap carriers. Then Carriers at War came along but it felt too automated and reduced the amount of things you could do during the battle.

If you liked Carrier Force, I strongly suspect that you'll like HPS NC-Midway game also.

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RE: HPS new games

Post by diablo1 »

I really liked the box art from all the SSI games, something I miss being able to see in the stores:(

I agree and same here. I really miss the box art and all the PC packages in the gaming stores. Many times I bought a game because of the box art vs the actual games. Most of the time the game turned out well also though. Now the stores are crowded with kids console games and I have no interest in them anymore. I've become a chess & checkers type of player and like to drink a pint and wile away the hours strategizing my strategies.

Thanks for the headsup Prince as I do have my eye on the HPS Midway game. I'm just reading through the reviews and am of course mainly interested in the IA performance. Even back then in the early 80's that Midway game and Carrier Force had a pretty good IA and I got my butt pounded a few times by them.
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Airborne82nd
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Airborne82nd »

Thanks to this forum and its members, I am really getting into Midway. CAP is working out much better and carrier ops are easier to understand. I've played multiple scenarios but find myself going back to the "Getting Started" one so I can 'train' myself.

The last mission was very fun. I sent out my search SBDs and had some CAP up. After they launched I turned back to due west and prepared my strikes and began getting them spotted. This is a time consuming process and I had all spotted except one or two TBD groups before my scouts picked up the enemy TF. I stopped spotting the last TBD groups and turned into the wind for launch. I had 2 scouting groups shadowing the enemy CV and my strike was launched. Once formed, they headed westward to (hopefully) glory. I had 2 F4F flights on escort which peeled off to intercept a Japanese scout plane shadowing my group. I quickly downed the Jake but it was too late. The enemy strikeforce had already been launched and was closing fast. My main attack force passed north of the incoming raid I launched my remaining F4Fs and a Buffalo flight for additional fleet protection. What was neat to watch was my escorting F4Fs that had left my raid to get the Jake, came back to my formation to continue escort duty. Unfortunately, they also got distracted by the enemy main strike and left to try and intercept. My cap did well and prevented all Kates from launching torpedoes. A few Vals made it through to cause light damage (88% remaining) to the Saratoga. Fortunately, I was able to continue flight ops.
My strike, now unescorted, made its way to the enemy TF dodging in and out of clouds. The enemy resistance was light and I inflicted light damage to the Hiryu the burning carrier unable to land or launch planes. The game ended in a draw with 19 planes lost by the US to 17 by the Japanese. Both carriers suffered light damage.

Neat stuff!! Thanks again for the help getting this going.
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htuna
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RE: HPS new games

Post by htuna »

Temptation is getting stronger and stronger!!!.. I'll have to see what Grim and Judge have to say.. also been eyeing Over Flanders Field (wwI expansion for MS Flight Sim).. but the shipping for that is ridiculous.. so leaning towards Midway..
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Grim.Reaper »

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625

Temptation is getting stronger and stronger!!!.. I'll have to see what Grim and Judge have to say.. also been eyeing Over Flanders Field (wwI expansion for MS Flight Sim).. but the shipping for that is ridiculous.. so leaning towards Midway..
I think my game should arrive Monday or Tuesday at the latest so I will give some impressions then. I have read about this game in a couple of forums, so my expectations are very high right now:)
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Prince of Eckmühl
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

There are just so many cool little things that the developer has built into this game. For instance, the air units have an ammo supply that the game tracks. So, an aircraft doesn't have to be shot down or fuel deprived to be hors de combat. There are some things that I don't completely understand. I'd elaborate, but for all that I know, they're explained somewhere in the nine PDF files that come with the game.
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RE: HPS new games

Post by goodwoodrw »

I bought the game yesterday from NWS. I noticed earlier in this post that a\c ammo tracked, is ordnance tracked for bombs and torps for carrier a\c?
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Ashtur
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Ashtur »

I do need to sharpen the existing scenarios in terms of how much ordinance was carried on each carrier, but that function is in the game.
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Prince of Eckmühl
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

@garymc,

Do carriers have a value for rate of turn (maneuverability)?

If so, where can those values be found?

And a third question...

Some WW2 carriers had three elevators.

Relative to vessels with fewer lifts, do those carriers benefit in any way?

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RE: HPS new games

Post by goodwoodrw »

is it modifiable from the gamer prospective?
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Grim.Reaper »

My copy of Midway arrived today...installed it and tried the "Getting Started" game. I don't have many comments right now, does seem to be a game that I will need to wrap my head around. Seems like it will take a lot of planning and thinking to win at this one, which is a good thing for me.
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Ashtur »

Ok, let's see here

The various ships do have different turning rates, but I don't know that they're documented ingame anywhere. It's pretty much what you expect. A CV or BB will turn much more slowly than a DD.

The timeframe on spotting is pdt set, and not per carrier, so, it doesn't model the differences between 3 vs 2 vs 1 elevator, unless the .pdt file is specifically set as a global value.

Oh, the .pdt is the "Parameter Data Table" file, where alot of those values are found.

As to moddability, to a certain extent, yes it is.

1) There is a .pdt file editor included, where you can fiddle with those values.
2) You can modify pictures
3) You can create new OOBs or modify the orders of battle found in game.

What is -not- moddable is the game database, which contains ships, planes and weapons. So, you can't add new ships or planes, or change the characteristics of the ones included.
Also, you cannot make new landmasses.
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Prince of Eckmühl
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RE: HPS new games

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

ORIGINAL: Grim.Reaper

My copy of Midway arrived today...installed it and tried the "Getting Started" game. I don't have many comments right now, does seem to be a game that I will need to wrap my head around. Seems like it will take a lot of planning and thinking to win at this one, which is a good thing for me.

You will need to read about air-operations in:

nvc.pdf (Main Program Help file)
started.pdf (Getting Started)
users.pdf (Users Manual)

You'll also want to peruse the parameter data, preferably through the editor so that you can take some mental or written notes. One value that you'll see that's critical is the "spot" time, the time to place an aircraft on deck so that it can participate in a mission. The value isn't variable, BTW. It takes two minutes. By example, if you want to spot thirty planes, it'll always take an hour. In turn, to remove an aircraft-unit from the flight deck, select it and click "spotting" to reverse the process (which brought it topside) and return it below-decks.

Once your aircraft are on deck and ready to be deployed on a mission, it's important to remember that they can't launch unless:

-their carrier is headed into the wind
-their carrier is not going too fast or too slow
-their carrier isn't in the process of spotting aircraft; the elevators can't be in use
-during the course of launching aircraft, violating any of these rules will interrupt/delay any launches that are pending.

There's a lot more, but the items that I cite above are "the usual suspects" when it comes to bungled air-ops, at least in my experience thus far.

If you have any questions, please ask. This may be our only chance to publicly-document some of this stuff. [:(]

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