Confused.com

[malkuth74]

don't forget the bug where if you put your ships that are in a fleet at auto. That sometimes they get taken out of the fleet. Even when you have fleets set to manual.

I tried this in my new game, and sure enough it worked for awhile, but then when I wanted to take out a pirate ship, I went to my fleet and it went from 9 ships to 3.... I was like DOH.

[Nemo84]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

Jim, if I do that my fleets keep disbanding. Is it because those ships are classed as frigates, or because their nearest fuel source is in a neighbouring system, or merely because of a bug?

Also, if I make two different designs for the same ship class (think short-range brawler and long-range torpedo boat), how will the AI decide which design to use for an automated refit?

Go into game options and turn off auto fleet control, the AI can't touch your fleets when you turn that off. Matrix will have to answer your second ?.

Jim

That option has been disabled from the start, the ships still leave their fleets. I can confirm they sometimes do this when they go to refuel in another system, and I've also seen them do it when fleeing from combat (but didn't check fuel status, so it might be the fuel thing again).

I'll try building some destroyers tonight, and see if they perform differently from my frigate fleets.

[sbach2o]

Just a note thrown in: I have observed that ships sustaining damage leave their fleet automatically. This hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread (well... I was reading sort of diagonally).

People who have fleet automation off and still wonder why ships leave fleets 'silently' should consider that this could have been due to damage received in battle. I am not saying this is definitely the only cause but it is the only which I have observed consistently. Well, maybe it is too obvious, so there may something else be at work still.

I have even refitted ships while they retained their fleet membership. Until I needed the rest of the fleet for battle, that is. I couldn'd send out part of a fleet, while other ships were tied up in a yard.

[Wade1000]

Yeah, I think it's just automated escorts and frigates that don't return to a manual fleet, while larger ships will return. I think escorts and frigates automated are programmed to patrol, escort private ships, and attack pirate ships.

[Nemo84]

Just a note thrown in: I have observed that ships sustaining damage leave their fleet automatically. This hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread (well... I was reading sort of diagonally).

Oh yes, I think I've seen similar behaviour as well. Though I'm not sure if it was the damage or the flee from combat routine that causes this.

Yeah, I think it's just automated escorts and frigates that don't return to a manual fleet, while larger ships will return. I think escorts and frigates automated are programmed to patrol, escort private ships, and attack pirate ships.

That would make it very annoying to include a few heavy frigates as highly mobile assets in a battlefleet or as escorts for troop ships and supply ships. This game really needs an overview of what the priorities are for automated ships.

[Gertjan]

Just to get this straight, so even when you manually control fleets, automated ships do leave your fleets?

@Jim, thanks for the screenshot. I'm going to use the fleet tool more. BTW It looks like you have an interesting game going there, judging from the mini galaxy map.

[JaguarUSF]

Yes, automated ships in a manually controlled fleet will leave. You need to manually control manually controlled ships (or something like that), which means you gotta refuel them manually every once in a while. Manually speaking, of course. Manually.

[Wade1000]

Man.

[Erik Rutins]

Automated ships that take damage will leave the fleet to repair. If fleet automation is on, they will be pulled back into the fleet (or another replacement will be) when ready. If you are running your fleets manually, you need to keep track of their fuel and damage.

[zenryl]

My main issue is that they attack independant world. If I late my ships automated, the AI create a bit fleet and just start to attack independant world.

"We have conquered world xxx" Exuse me ?

It would be usefull when automating something to tell the AI what to do ala HOI3, that means you can give objective at fleet level. For example protect sector H9, protect system XXX, invade world xxx. I manage the fleet, give them the ship they want, they can tell me what ship they think they need to achieve their objective etc... HQ management in HOI3 does not work so well but it's a great idea and if you can do it in DW it will be a great improvment to the game. I don't want to micro-manage the fleet but at least I want to tell them what to do.

Maybe it's a bit to much for a patch, but I will be buy an expansion with only that feature [&o]

[Nemo84]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Automated ships that take damage will leave the fleet to repair. If fleet automation is on, they will be pulled back into the fleet (or another replacement will be) when ready. If you are running your fleets manually, you need to keep track of their fuel and damage.

This makes manual fleet control pretty much impossible in larger empires, as players would need to constantly hunt after ships to keep their fleets intact during warfare.

Though reading this, I think many of us might be misinterpreting the fleet automation option. Can you state exactly what fleet automation AI will and will not do? Will it alter, move or disband player-created fleets? Does it treat the ships in a fleet differently whether they are automated or not? Will it create fleets containing non-automated ships? Will it create fleets to attack enemy systems, and is this dependant on the "Attacks against Enemies" option setting?

I really think many of the problems and complaints people are having with the game are because the whole automation AI, such an important and innovative feature, is simply not documented at all and people are unknowingly fighting against it instead of working with it.

[JudgeDredd]

If you have Fleet Automation on, you can create a new fleet but you will be asked if you want to turn off automation. If you say Yes, then you can create a new fleet - and more. If you say no, it will create the fleet you suggested, but remove the current fleet (or a-nother fleet).

In the example I saw, I said no to turning off automation and it created 2nd Fleet...but when I looked, 1st Fleet had gone. Kind of makes sense - if I say "No - leave automation on" then why wouldn't it get rid of my other fleet as it deems it surplus to requirement.

I'm going to leave fleet automation on for a bit and see how it manages.

As for this

I really think many of the problems and complaints people are having with the game are because the whole automation AI, such an important and innovative feature, is simply not documented at all and people are unknowingly fighting against it instead of working with it.

I agree. That was my initial thought...that I was fighting against the feature...but purely through lack of understanding of what exactly it was doing.

Again with my example, I left Fleet Automation on so it disbanded 1st Fleet - like I said, I guess it thought it was a surplus fleet.

It's probably down to my own play style. I like to be very hands on. I like knowing where everything is. I'll position fleets in strategic locations so they can zip between systems if danger appears. I don't think I've given the AI fleet control a fair crack tbh...so I will do that and see what gives.

[Nemo84]

If you have Fleet Automation on, you can create a new fleet but you will be asked if you want to turn off automation. If you say Yes, then you can create a new fleet - and more. If you say no, it will create the fleet you suggested, but remove the current fleet (or a-nother fleet).

In the example I saw, I said no to turning off automation and it created 2nd Fleet...but when I looked, 1st Fleet had gone. Kind of makes sense - if I say "No - leave automation on" then why wouldn't it get rid of my other fleet as it deems it surplus to requirement.

I'm going to leave fleet automation on for a bit and see how it manages.

In this example you give, did you create 1st Fleet yourself or was it an AI creation? And will the Fleet AI leave this player-created fleet intact even if the ships themselves are automated?

I'm really starting to hate having to spend my days at work instead of being able to experiment with this great game. So many questions, so little time. Better hope my professor doesn't read this [:D]

[sanderz]

ORIGINAL: Nemo84


This makes manual fleet control pretty much impossible in larger empires, as players would need to constantly hunt after ships to keep their fleets intact during warfare.

Though reading this, I think many of us might be misinterpreting the fleet automation option. Can you state exactly what fleet automation AI will and will not do? Will it alter, move or disband player-created fleets? Does it treat the ships in a fleet differently whether they are automated or not? Will it create fleets containing non-automated ships? Will it create fleets to attack enemy systems, and is this dependant on the "Attacks against Enemies" option setting?

I really think many of the problems and complaints people are having with the game are because the whole automation AI, such an important and innovative feature, is simply not documented at all and people are unknowingly fighting against it instead of working with it.

well said Nemo84

[playedabit]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Automated ships that take damage will leave the fleet to repair. If fleet automation is on, they will be pulled back into the fleet (or another replacement will be) when ready. If you are running your fleets manually, you need to keep track of their fuel and damage.

Please include an option to stop this behaviour. Ships left behind in this way are a pain to find and reassign. Anyway, doesn't manual control mean that I control who's in the fleet and who's not? Some level of semi-automation is always welcome (such as a 'go to and engage enemies' command would be), but - for me at least - this is a great annoyance. If they really need to do something then have ships in need of repair try to stay out of fight but remain in the fleet.

[zenryl]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

If you have Fleet Automation on, you can create a new fleet but you will be asked if you want to turn off automation. If you say Yes, then you can create a new fleet - and more. If you say no, it will create the fleet you suggested, but remove the current fleet (or a-nother fleet).

In the example I saw, I said no to turning off automation and it created 2nd Fleet...but when I looked, 1st Fleet had gone. Kind of makes sense - if I say "No - leave automation on" then why wouldn't it get rid of my other fleet as it deems it surplus to requirement.

I'm going to leave fleet automation on for a bit and see how it manages.

As for this

I really think many of the problems and complaints people are having with the game are because the whole automation AI, such an important and innovative feature, is simply not documented at all and people are unknowingly fighting against it instead of working with it.

I agree. That was my initial thought...that I was fighting against the feature...but purely through lack of understanding of what exactly it was doing.

Again with my example, I left Fleet Automation on so it disbanded 1st Fleet - like I said, I guess it thought it was a surplus fleet.

It's probably down to my own play style. I like to be very hands on. I like knowing where everything is. I'll position fleets in strategic locations so they can zip between systems if danger appears. I don't think I've given the AI fleet control a fair crack tbh...so I will do that and see what gives.

Fleet automation works well but as I said we need to be abble to create fleet, give them ships and objectives. The AI don't modify the fleet and try to do its objective with what you give to it. If it can't be done the AI ask you for more ships. It's done in HOI3 and it's a great feature.

Because as it's done now, you have no control if you don't look your ship carefully they even go to attack independant world...

[Nemo84]

Ok, I've done some experimentation with automated fleet management and I'm rather disappointed frankly. So here's what I've noticed so far when manually creating a fleet of 6 destroyers at my homeworld and giving them some orders.

- Ordered the fleet to blockade a planet: no problem, behaves as expected.
- Ordered the fleet to move into system or to empty space: no problem, behaves as expected.
- Ordered the fleet back to their home planet with the "return home" function: AI automatically adds 8 frigates to the fleet, pulling them away from their automated patrol in my outlying systems, leaving these open to attack.
- Activating individual ship AI at any point: AI automatically adds 8 frigates to the fleet, pulling them away from their automated patrol in my outlying systems, leaving these open to attack.
- Ordering the fleet to attack a passing freighter: AI automatically adds 8 frigates to the fleet, pulling them away from their automated patrol in my outlying systems, leaving these open to attack.

At this point I don't even want to know what the AI would do with this fleet if I declared war. So it seems right now we either pick no automated fleet management and ships can randomly wander away when low on fuel or damaged. Or we pick automated fleet management and ships get randomly added or removed from player created fleets. Either way the player loses way too much control to a bunch of AI routines that may or may not end up doing what the player wants.