War Weariness... too much?

[forsaken1111]

I have to ask... why is war weariness such a large modifier on colony happiness?

Its fine on well developed colonies, but smaller colonies go into rebellion almost instantly if I have a war which lasts more than a year. I would think that a colony belonging to a warrior race would relish the war, especially if I am winning and they have never been attacked. It doesn't make much sense to me, especially with the way the warrior races are presented, that the people of your empire hate war so much that they will rebel during a war you are winning easily.

This is magnified even more if you are in a war you cannot win, but cannot END either. You are doomed to have parts of your empire split off because your enemy will not end the war and has fought you to a stalemate. I had a game like this where my standing with another empire was too low to buy off and our war had no progress in several years. Unhappiness from war weariness eventually caused a split of my empire, despite the fact that none of my colonies were ever threatened by the enemy. You see, they were so far away that we only ever had border skirmishes, but they would not end the war (which they started anyway) because they didn't like me. We hadn't even been attacked by them in over a year, so the war wasn't even affecting the civilian sector and we lost more ships to pirates each month than during the entire war.

[Wicky]

I agree, the effects from war weariness start with less happy colonists, then the tax goes down to keep them happy. Then you don't have enough money to win the war, then the enemy notices you can't win and denies all request for peace, then your colonies split off and the rest is conquered. You loose!

The effect of war weariness is like a fire, self-feeding and growing exponentially, jumping over to the next nearest thing. It starts with a small match lighting a cigarette and like in a fast chain-reaction consumes everything until all has burnt down, without doing anything!

What shall we do with war weariness then? If one race declares war on me, then we both are in state of war. But that's plain wrong. The enemy can't FORCE me to declare war on them!
If you would agree with me, then the solution would be that you don't have to declare war automatically on every race who declares war on you!
For example the insectoids declare war on you! So what, you don't declare war on them, you just keep playing and defend. Problem solved, you are not at war so there won't be any war weariness.
But if you actively declare war on somebody, then war weariness would kick in normally! That's my idea, hope you find it interesting.

[Gertjan]

I dont have too many problems with it at the moment. I'm now in a game in which I'm currently at war with at least 2 empires at the same time. My race dislikes wars a lot. However at the same time many of may colonies are well developed, so things even out and I manage quite well.

[BigWolfChris]

I believe, war weariness should have little effect

That is, until you either
a) Start Loosing
b) Enemies are close to colonies

At that point, it ramps up, accordingly
So, if you start loosing ships, it ramps up based on how many (but still a low factor if you still have plenty of ships)
Or, if Enemies are close, it only ramps up with the colonies that have enemies near, and then only based on number of you ships vs. their ships in proximity to those colonies... so, single vessels shouldn't make much difference unless they are really powerful

Citizens on colonies far from conflict zones or any enemies fleets should have minimal weariness to a war, or none if you're a race that likes war

[Duckfang]

ORIGINAL: Wicky
For example the insectoids declare war on you! So what, you don't declare war on them, you just keep playing and defend. Problem solved, you are not at war so there won't be any war weariness.
But if you actively declare war on somebody, then war weariness would kick in normally! That's my idea, hope you find it interesting.

Pretty sure your people would still get sick of the fighting. Possibly even moreso if you weren't doing anything to try and end it (like striking back).

[Storper]

Perhaps it could be toned down if you are fighting a defensive war if others declare on you and be counteracted by ....I dunno patriotism or whatever if you are taking their colonies right and left?

[PDiFolco]

To me war weariness should pop up if ships are lost, planets get attacked or worse invaded, not only because war is declared in itself... A race shouldn"t be weary of a war that goes well or a "phoney" war where nothing happens.

[Duckfang]

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
A race shouldn"t be weary of a war that goes well

This happens all the time irl. People get sick of fighting eventually, regardless of whether they're winning. Sometimes you just want to settle down and have kids. [;)]

[frugaldude]

When you set the aggression slider in the game start up screen, does that affect War Weariness?  If it is set as peaceful, does that increase the effects of WW to shorten the length of wars?  Conversely, does setting aggression to chaotic lessen the effects of WW allowing longer wars before WW takes it toll?

Haven't involved myself in wars yet,  just easing myself into the game to prolong the enjoyment. 

[Titanwarrior89]

SPeaking of war. I was at war with two alien empires. Then I checked later and we were at peace. I think their should be at least a pop up or am I missing something? If it was in the message scroll at the top-its so small I can barely read it. So I am not sure if it was posted there either.

[Fishman]

ORIGINAL: Duckfang
This happens all the time irl. People get sick of fighting eventually, regardless of whether they're winning. Sometimes you just want to settle down and have kids. [;)]

That also assumes that you are actively fighting in a war, as opposed to it being a phony war that is characterized by an absence of fighting. Also, the main problem with it is that it tends to immediately kill any new colonies first: Your larger colonies are mostly unaffected, it's the small colonies that take the biggest hit because they have no means of generating positive morale.

[Wicky]

War weariness is a problem because you automatically declare war back on somebody who has declared war on you.
I mean, this is my war minister. He declares war when I want to. However, everytime some insect on the other end of the galaxy decides to declare war on me, and I have no chance to beg for peace, my war minister automatically stands up and says: "Ok, and we declare war back on you!"

What ever happened to the option B:
"Fine, your race has declared war on me. I opt to do nothing, I will just sit around and defend my colonies."
Then the enemy race would be at war with me and suffer war weariness. However, mine doesn't. I can't attack him, only defend, because officially I didn't declare war back on them!

If this isn't fixed, then I will soon exterminate a whole 20 advanced alien species just with 1 colony ship. How? I build a colony ship, send it to the border of the galaxy where it cant be found. Then I declare war on everyone! They can't find me, yet the more time passes the more unhappy their colonists become. They can't just stop the war because I refuse to give peace! It's just as simple as that. Sooner or later the WW grows to inacceptable levels, everyone of their planets will have 0% tax and still rebell. Even the most advanced planets will bail out after 20 years of war weariness. They can't pay maintenance for their ships and bases anymore. When they are 1 Million credits into debt, their civs all collapse, what will they do against this exploit? LOL. Looking back on the events 30 years later, my colony ship goes to the next nearest planet and starts to build an empire without anyone left. You win!

That's what happens when somebody can control what your own military minister says.

[freeboy]

well, war weariness is affected by type of Gov, and perhaps by race too?

[Duckfang]

ORIGINAL: Wicky

War weariness is a problem because you automatically declare war back on somebody who has declared war on you.
I mean, this is my war minister. He declares war when I want to. However, everytime some insect on the other end of the galaxy decides to declare war on me, and I have no chance to beg for peace, my war minister automatically stands up and says: "Ok, and we declare war back on you!"

What ever happened to the option B:
"Fine, your race has declared war on me. I opt to do nothing, I will just sit around and defend my colonies."
Then the enemy race would be at war with me and suffer war weariness. However, mine doesn't. I can't attack him, only defend, because officially I didn't declare war back on them!

If this isn't fixed, then I will soon exterminate a whole 20 advanced alien species just with 1 colony ship. How? I build a colony ship, send it to the border of the galaxy where it cant be found. Then I declare war on everyone! They can't find me, yet the more time passes the more unhappy their colonists become. They can't just stop the war because I refuse to give peace! It's just as simple as that. Sooner or later the WW grows to inacceptable levels, everyone of their planets will have 0% tax and still rebell. Even the most advanced planets will bail out after 20 years of war weariness. They can't pay maintenance for their ships and bases anymore. When they are 1 Million credits into debt, their civs all collapse, what will they do against this exploit? LOL. Looking back on the events 30 years later, my colony ship goes to the next nearest planet and starts to build an empire without anyone left. You win!

That's what happens when somebody can control what your own military minister says.

Try it; you'll lose your colony long before that happens.

If someone declares war on you; you aren't declaring war on them. They declare war against you, so now a state of War exists between you whether you like it or not.

I'm lots of countries throughout history would've loved it if they could ignore the negative effects on a population of being at war purely because they were defending themselves. [8|] Sooner or later people get sick of being bombed and of losing their families in the fighting and just want to get on with life.

You can sue for peace immediately the war starts if you like and the diplomacy screen will show you what kind of value you need to be offering before the race that just started a war with you will consider a ceasefire. Although considering you're being a bit of a pushover, the price for peace might be quite high.

[HsojVvad]

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

To me war weariness should pop up if ships are lost, planets get attacked or worse invaded, not only because war is declared in itself... A race shouldn"t be weary of a war that goes well or a "phoney" war where nothing happens.

I agree. In the game Star Trek The Birth of the Federation. If you loose in combat, the citizens get displeased. If they win, they get a bit happy. If you loose a colony they really get unhappy. Maybe there is a way to impliment this? If not in a patch, an expansion pack.

I hope we really get a good expansion pack that has alot of our ideas.

[Wicky]

In real life, war weariness happens when the military is operating in foreign countries, attacking somebody. People complain about their losses and demand to stop the war.
Mind, that it is within their leaders power at any time to stop the offensive war.

Unlike the "real life", war weariness happens in DW when somebody declares war on you. So ANYONE in the whole galaxy can impose the negative and ever-growing effects of war weariness upon you, as if your opinion didn't matter at all. Like the thread-starter mentioned, he never got into any battles for over a year, yet the enemy race would not agree to peace. Then his colonies all split up and he lost.

ORIGINAL: Duckfang
If someone declares war on you; you aren't declaring war on them. They declare war against you, so now a state of War exists between you whether you like it or not.

Nop, there's a gargantuan mistake in your logical pattern!
If some bully punches me in the stomach, I can either fight back or stand still and have the Option B to do nothing. As stupid as it sounds, but I can just stand still and wait for more punches. For example Ghandi, when the English were at war with the Indians, but the Indians were not at war with them. They just refused to engage in any resistance.

[HsojVvad]

ORIGINAL: Wicky

In real life, war weariness happens when the military is operating in foreign countries, attacking somebody. People complain about their losses and demand to stop the war.
Mind, that it is within their leaders power at any time to stop the offensive war.

Unlike the "real life", war weariness happens in DW when somebody declares war on you. So ANYONE in the whole galaxy can impose the negative and ever-growing effects of war weariness upon you, as if your opinion didn't matter at all. Like the thread-starter mentioned, he never got into any battles for over a year, yet the enemy race would not agree to peace. Then his colonies all split up and he lost.

Hhhmmmm...... So can this be put in reverse? By that I mean declare war on a race that you will know that can't really do you any harm, and hope their War Weariness will cause them to revolt and join your empire then?

[Wicky]

ORIGINAL: Davor
Hhhmmmm...... So can this be put in reverse? By that I mean declare war on a race that you will know that can't really do you any harm, and hope their War Weariness will cause them to revolt and join your empire then?

Of course this works! That was very, very smart of you Davor, seems like you are the only one who understood. Pick an aggressive race with -70% war weariness and declare war on a democratic empire. OMG! They may capture one of your planets, but in the process their WW will cause 20 of their colonies to rebell, split off from the empire!!

[PDiFolco]

ORIGINAL: Wicky

In real life, war weariness happens when the military is operating in foreign countries, attacking somebody. People complain about their losses and demand to stop the war.
Mind, that it is within their leaders power at any time to stop the offensive war.

That's US-style war weariness, which is much less than for the guys at the other end of the stick ! [X(]

[Wicky]

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
That's US-style war weariness, which is much less than for the guys at the other end of the stick!

Hm, you could be right. So what now? See ya!