Price

[parusski]

It really is pointless to point out how pointless my point was.[;)]

[LarryP]

This is getting good now! [;)]

[sabre1]

Point taken Parusski!

[JudgeDredd]

ok - now we've got some flow. (<---how pointless was that?)

[sabre1]

I would respond JD to your point JD, but you would have to counterpoint my point the the point I was making about Parusski.

[JudgeDredd]

lol

Ok - I will apologise for saying the thread was all whining. Everyone has their price point and for absolutely sure people should tell Matrix why they are not going to buy a game. That way Matrix know the reason for it. Maybe help them do some maths and re-think.

So I apologise.

I do know I will get my monies worth from the game, as I did with Kharkov. How can I be sure? Because Kharkov has less units, less turns and is a smaller map. seems pretty obvious (being as the same great engine is being used) that those factors should alone increase my enjoyment per £.

[jhdeerslayer]

I'm playing the Russians with German AI +. I'm on Turn 5 now and glad I purchased this one for sure. More flavor than the orginal ATD I think. The AO's add to this for sure. Each turn as the Russians for me takes about 45 minutes plus AI turn resolution. Of course experiences will vary but the map is big and much to review and check. Filing holes in my line is challenging too. [:D]

[parusski]

Dredd, Sabre, I need to stop this wonderful conversation. I am leading the point of an attack in ATD2. My son thinks my plain is aimless, or even pointless. See ya.

[V22 Osprey]

It was pointless to start this thread to begin with.[8|]

[TargAK]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

It was pointless to start this thread to begin with.[8|]

“Yeah well, that’s just, ya know, like, your opinion, man.”

[JudgeDredd]

I disagree V22 - I think it is important to let developers know why your not buying a game...if you don't then they don't know what to do to remedy that. What was pointless was the inane head banging (myself included).

Targ - that is an awesome film.

[papajack]

ORIGINAL: DBeves

Well - I bought it ...

But I have to say - that is expensive for a one scenario expansion.

This is the very first post and I will like to end it by saying

" Well I just bought it too and NO , it is not expensive

Thank you

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Jalla

As I've bought all the SSG previous titles (Korsun, AtD, BiN, BiI, Battlefront, Kharkov etc.)...

Jas you bought every SSG title but you only purchased Kharkov because you would get a discount on AtD2 some day as you claimed in your original post? [8|] You've also never had a need to post a question or comment and Matrix before either? [8|]


Operation Konrad Comment

Someone needs to re-do the map and take out roughly 90% of the town labels. The map unfortunately is pretty much unplayable as is with the labels on and though the scenario designer has commented somewhere that he could not use the standard SSG map pallete, the look of the map is just not up to publisher-grade.

Being free it really doesn't matter all that much but imo despite all the undoubtedly hard work put inside it should not have been included with the same "official" add-on as Husky. It's like putting a DTP map inside a bona fide board wargame box.

PS: In the scenario selection screen Operation Konrad is spelled with a small (k)onrad. FYI for the patch.

[Pete AU]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

ORIGINAL: Jalla

As I've bought all the SSG previous titles (Korsun, AtD, BiN, BiI, Battlefront, Kharkov etc.)...

Jas you bought every SSG title but you only purchased Kharkov because you would get a discount on AtD2 some day as you claimed in your original post? [8|] You've also never had a need to post a question or comment and Matrix before either? [8|]


Operation Konrad Comment

Someone needs to re-do the map and take out roughly 90% of the town labels. The map unfortunately is pretty much unplayable as is with the labels on and though the scenario designer has commented somewhere that he could not use the standard SSG map pallete, the look of the map is just not up to publisher-grade.

Being free it really doesn't matter all that much but imo despite all the undoubtedly hard work put inside it should not have been included with the same "official" add-on as Husky. It's like putting a DTP map inside a bona fide board wargame box.

PS: In the scenario selection screen Operation Konrad is spelled with a small (k)onrad. FYI for the patch.

Well, at least you know why there are only a few user made scenarios.

[jjdenver]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Operation Konrad Comment

Someone needs to re-do the map and take out roughly 90% of the town labels. The map unfortunately is pretty much unplayable as is with the labels on and though the scenario designer has commented somewhere that he could not use the standard SSG map pallete, the look of the map is just not up to publisher-grade.

Being free it really doesn't matter all that much but imo despite all the undoubtedly hard work put inside it should not have been included with the same "official" add-on as Husky. It's like putting a DTP map inside a bona fide board wargame box.

re: map unplayable w/ names on. That's the beauty of map options built into the game. You can easily turn off all town names and leave on only important map names, which removes the problem you describe. You're also left with some nice extra info about town names viewable by right clicking on the hex to see town details including name. Problem solved and extra historical info to boot. There ya go.

As for whether the scenario should have been included w/ the add on - I think it's a great idea to include it as it avoids players having to go search for and download the scenario. I'd favor including every single scenario to avoid having to search them out. SSG is pretty bad about updating the scenario downloads on their site so as time goes on you end up having to search lots of threads to find the latest version of a scenario. I guess that's an aside, but bottom line is that not having to find scenarios on the web and having them delivered in a bundle download is great imo.

Whether you want to play the scenario or not (I think it's a scenario I'd like to play, and from talking to other players who have played it, it's a lot of fun), there's no reason not to include it other than some feeling on your part that the scenario isn't exactly as you'd like it? You can feel free to mod the scenario I would guess or create your own scenario.

Thank again for the scenario.

[Noakesy]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker Being free it really doesn't matter all that much but imo despite all the undoubtedly hard work put inside it should not have been included with the same "official" add-on as Husky. It's like putting a DTP map inside a bona fide board wargame box.

Sorry don't agree with this, I think the map and counter artwork are excellent. It's different in some respects from the other main maps, but I think it looks very good. Without the Custom(er) Made Scenarios we would have very few ready made games to play.

As per JJs comment, it also means we are playing with the same version. There are a number of really good Custom(er) Made Scenarios on the Run5 site which are detracted from somewhat by the fact that updates are in the forums themselves.

[DBeves]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

ORIGINAL: Jalla

As I've bought all the SSG previous titles (Korsun, AtD, BiN, BiI, Battlefront, Kharkov etc.)...

Jas you bought every SSG title but you only purchased Kharkov because you would get a discount on AtD2 some day as you claimed in your original post? [8|] You've also never had a need to post a question or comment and Matrix before either? [8|]


Operation Konrad Comment

Someone needs to re-do the map and take out roughly 90% of the town labels. The map unfortunately is pretty much unplayable as is with the labels on and though the scenario designer has commented somewhere that he could not use the standard SSG map pallete, the look of the map is just not up to publisher-grade.

Being free it really doesn't matter all that much but imo despite all the undoubtedly hard work put inside it should not have been included with the same "official" add-on as Husky. It's like putting a DTP map inside a bona fide board wargame box.

PS: In the scenario selection screen Operation Konrad is spelled with a small (k)onrad. FYI for the patch.

comment, it also means

Yes - Disagree with that entirely - Have no problem with the map artwork at all - in fact all the stuff done by this guy is excellent. Dont like the labels then turn them off.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL:

Whether you want to play the scenario or not (I think it's a scenario I'd like to play, and from talking to other players who have played it, it's a lot of fun),...

Have you even looked at it?


Re Interface Advice

Thanks for the interface advice folks but I've played this series since The Ardennes Offensive 1 way back in the 90's. I bought my copy of Kharkov to help SSG with its testing btw.

It's good that we can have differing opinions but the advice to "turn off the map labels" is the same pathetic advice that's been offered for nearly 2 decades now (in this and other games) but game design has matured and become more sophisiticated since then. What about smaller and smoother map label fonting? What about taking the time to make everything consistent out of the box than appearing to look lazy? That's the perception it leaves me. I'd never have sanctioned Konrad's inclusion in this way. Again, a lot of work has gone into it but to me it just isn't "SSG Commericial Standard".

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Operation Konrad Comment

Someone needs to re-do the map and take out roughly 90% of the town labels.

Hit the shortcut "C". This removes 90% of the town labels.

Hit "C" again and it removes 100% of the town labels.

Hot "C" again and all labels are restored.

-

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I disagree V22 - I think it is important to let developers know why your not buying a game...if you don't then they don't know what to do to remedy that. What was pointless was the inane head banging (myself included).

Targ - that is an awesome film.

Well Judge, let quote the original post:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

Well - I bought it ...

But I have to say - that is expensive for a one scenario expansion.

I think the first part was definitly a little pointless, and as for second part, well everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it's funny how he doesn't get a post like this from TARG:

ORIGINAL: TARG

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

It was pointless to start this thread to begin with.[8|]

“Yeah well, that’s just, ya know, like, your opinion, man.”