To all who love me here [&:] I have a question, where in the 4 billion posts here is strategy covered, not so much individual strategy [which is important] but a general consenus strategy. eg: 3rd Reich had several pages of strategy for different countries. In WIF do you think about the 2nd world war time line such as France may 1940, Russia june 1941 etc. or what happens just happens. Mostly played the SC series and England was easy to defeat in 1940, of course that was against a not so adequate AI, I am sure a good Allied player could have made it much tougher to capture England in Pbem or hot seat, the problem of taking England in SC would mean to all intents and purposes the game was over, so I refrained from taking England and went after Russia and then take on the US and English invasion of France. In WIF can a good German player invade England and defeat a competent English player defending England and does it come down to strategy or the roll of the dice or both, and is this invasion a not so good thing, like it might upset the time line in getting ready to take on Russia kind of strategy. Also what are the most important units for the Axis to build in 1940. Thank you in advace.
Bo
Strategy
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
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SamuraiProgrmmr
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:15 am
- Location: NW Tennessee
RE: Strategy
There are some discussions about the AI strategy that might be helpful to you. I think that is the best you will find here.
I would suggest going to the wifdiscussion group on yahoo. They have enough reading material to keep you busy for a few years.
As for timeline, I can give you my opinion. The entire game is predicated on doing things however you like. However, since reality is modelled, you will find yourself confoming to reality on certain issues. Timing is one of them.
Realistically, offensives need to be run in the summer. Realistically, Germany does not want to run 2 offensives at the same time. So this puts Germany in the situation where it is France or Russa in 1940 followed by the other in 1941. (France First or Russa First)
With Russia, you must kill the bear before it can hibernate and regain its strength. That gives you one summer to conquer Russa - either 1941 or 1942.
I would suggest going to the wifdiscussion group on yahoo. They have enough reading material to keep you busy for a few years.
As for timeline, I can give you my opinion. The entire game is predicated on doing things however you like. However, since reality is modelled, you will find yourself confoming to reality on certain issues. Timing is one of them.
Realistically, offensives need to be run in the summer. Realistically, Germany does not want to run 2 offensives at the same time. So this puts Germany in the situation where it is France or Russa in 1940 followed by the other in 1941. (France First or Russa First)
With Russia, you must kill the bear before it can hibernate and regain its strength. That gives you one summer to conquer Russa - either 1941 or 1942.
Bridge is the best wargame going .. Where else can you find a tournament every weekend?
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Cheesehead
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
RE: Strategy
There are several pages of strategy in the scenario book that offer some basic ideas of WiF strategy. To answer your question about successful Sea Lion's and WiF... yes, it is very much feasible for GE to invade and conquer England. I'm sad to say that I lost a game after seeing Britain conquered. I wrote up a game report on the WiF list back a few years ago after it happened, but good luck finding it. To summarize, here is how the Axis pull it off.
1. GE and IT build TRS and AMPH right away away as well as all their MTN, MAR and PARA units.
2. GE and IT also build up as much of their air as possible, especially NAVs and 2 box fighters. This means that they will not be able to build many ground units. Rommel is out of the question. Maybe the GE can afford one MECH or MECHdiv, but that is all. It also isn't a bad idea to finish the Tirpitz and the CV.
3. Proceed through the battle for France as if you are going after Spain. It is also not a bad idea for Italy to go hard after Egypt. JP should also be prepared to suspend the War in China in mid 1940 in order to make an early declaration on CW to go after India and or Australia. They can also threaten South Africa. The idea is to spread the CW as thin as possible.
4. After France falls, consider what forces CW has in England. If they 5 corps or less, it is a go. The Axis should be able to flip half of these and get ashore with PARA/Invasions quite easily. The follow up forces come slowly as the GE usually have only 3 or 4 TRS by this time, but they can use HQ and ATR to reorg one or two and get double duty out of them in a turn. Of course this all assumes that the Axis can control one sea zone (usually the north Sea) with massive amounts of fighter and NAV in the 2 box.
5. A really nasty trick is to invade Ireland with a Div or Marine. They can walk into a minor port on a surprise impulse and if the CW doesn't have any land units in Belfast can threaten that hex as well. Taking a major port on the Faeroes sea zone and then rebasing a NAV or two to that hex will spread CW fighters even more. If the Axis can clear the Faeroes and Biscay of CP, the CW is in big trouble.
If the CW plays it safe and manages to match you with fighter strength while keeping most of their land units in England, you may have to alter your plans. But then Egypt should fall easily and Spain may also be a tempting target. If JP can take out India and australia because the CW was so intent on defending the home island, mores the better. So it is good to be flexible, but if you really want to do a Sea Lion you have to have massive advantage in air power so don't skim on the planes and pilots.
cheers
John
1. GE and IT build TRS and AMPH right away away as well as all their MTN, MAR and PARA units.
2. GE and IT also build up as much of their air as possible, especially NAVs and 2 box fighters. This means that they will not be able to build many ground units. Rommel is out of the question. Maybe the GE can afford one MECH or MECHdiv, but that is all. It also isn't a bad idea to finish the Tirpitz and the CV.
3. Proceed through the battle for France as if you are going after Spain. It is also not a bad idea for Italy to go hard after Egypt. JP should also be prepared to suspend the War in China in mid 1940 in order to make an early declaration on CW to go after India and or Australia. They can also threaten South Africa. The idea is to spread the CW as thin as possible.
4. After France falls, consider what forces CW has in England. If they 5 corps or less, it is a go. The Axis should be able to flip half of these and get ashore with PARA/Invasions quite easily. The follow up forces come slowly as the GE usually have only 3 or 4 TRS by this time, but they can use HQ and ATR to reorg one or two and get double duty out of them in a turn. Of course this all assumes that the Axis can control one sea zone (usually the north Sea) with massive amounts of fighter and NAV in the 2 box.
5. A really nasty trick is to invade Ireland with a Div or Marine. They can walk into a minor port on a surprise impulse and if the CW doesn't have any land units in Belfast can threaten that hex as well. Taking a major port on the Faeroes sea zone and then rebasing a NAV or two to that hex will spread CW fighters even more. If the Axis can clear the Faeroes and Biscay of CP, the CW is in big trouble.
If the CW plays it safe and manages to match you with fighter strength while keeping most of their land units in England, you may have to alter your plans. But then Egypt should fall easily and Spain may also be a tempting target. If JP can take out India and australia because the CW was so intent on defending the home island, mores the better. So it is good to be flexible, but if you really want to do a Sea Lion you have to have massive advantage in air power so don't skim on the planes and pilots.
cheers
John
You can't fight in here...this is the war room!
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composer99
- Posts: 2931
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:00 am
- Location: Ottawa, Canada
- Contact:
RE: Strategy
Bo,
In terms of grand strategy, I think the choices facing each major power can be summarized thusly:
Germany
German strategy is perhaps the most flexible, as Germany holds all the initiative at the start of the game. In general, Germany's only restriction is that it must fight the Polish in 1939 (in theory, one could screen Poland and go after France; weather tends to make a mess of this strategy).
France/Low Countries
In general, Germany deals with France and the Low Countries in 1940. Later campaigns can be attempted; however France must be dispatched before US entry into the war or Germany is in very big trouble.
Barbarossa
Germany generally attempts an invasion of the USSR in 1940 (most likely this means screening against France), 1941, or 1942; the latter year is typically the invasion after a campaign in the UK or Spain. Later attacks are not likely to result in decisive victory for Germany, although a spoiler attack may be a good idea to destroy USSR forces in East Poland. Germany can usually get 1-2 good years in the USSR, after which the Red Army has usually recovered enough to make a come back.
Sealion
Germany can attempt an invasion of the UK in 1940 (France is screened and then dispatched after the front stabilizes in UK) or 1941, dependent upon German preparedness and lack of CW defences. Usually an invasion after 1941 is not possible due to American entry into the war. Conquest of the UK is rarely requried for Sealion to succeed; capture of >50% of English factories (say, up to the city line south of the central mountains) will usually hamper CW production sufficiently, especially if the convoy lines can be subsequently severed.
Mediterranean Campaign
In 1940 (if France falls very quickly) or 1941 Germany can usually take charge of this theatre in an attempt to secure Gibraltar (either overland via invading Spain or overseas based out of Portugal and/or Algeria) along with the Italian offensive/defensive objectives (see Italian grand strategy, below).
The Balkans
The question at the heart of this area is Yugoslavia: Germany & Italy must decide whether they want to conquer or align Yugoslavia. Alignment requires a particular set of circumstances to occur; conquest is much easier. Whatever course taken, the Balkan strategy is a secondary theatre compared to the above principal strategic directions.
Battle of the Atlantic
The commitment that Germany makes to this depends largely on the German grand strategy and on the production Germany is willing to put into submarines or surface raiders, and must be pursued with consideration to Germany's principal strategic aims.
In 1942 (unless the US is very unlucky in terms of entry and the Japanese are willing to put up with a boring mid-game) the initiative will pass from Germany to the Allies.
Japan
Japanese strategy is also relatively flexible; however strategies taking it into conflict against the CW early will result in earlier US entry, to the detriment of the Axis powers.
Early-War Strategy
Before going to war with the CW/US, Japan can choose to:
- Focus on China, in an attempt to secure as many resources and push the Chinese back to slow down their potential comeback late in the game. Outright conquest or crippling of China is unlikely but possible.
- Attack the USSR
- Attack the CW while it is very sparsely defended; this accelerates US entry into the war but may give Japan more time to conquer somewhere important before facing the Allied counter-attack
Mid-War Strategy
Japan has two phases of its mid-war strategy:
- First, securing the southern resource zone (Malaya, NEI, Philippines) and perimeter (Rabaul, Singapore, island bases and maybe Ceylon).
- Second, Japan can attempt to attack either India, Australia, or Pearl Harbour (Japanese players who are both skilled and fortunate may be able to secure two or three of these) - depending on the mass of Allied forces it may be the case that none of these can be secured.
- If Japan has not fought the USSR at this time, it may be conceivable to launch an attack to secure Vladivostok and some resources if the USSR is occupied fighting Germany.
After this point, usually by mid-to-late 1942, Japan is firmly on the defensive against the Allies.
Italy
Italy's strategic options are much more limited compared to the other Axis powers due to its weaker forces, weaker production, and being bottled in by Allied control of the entrance/exit points of the Med.
Meditteranean Strategy
Irrespective of German overall strategy, and with or without (better with) German aid, Italy can pursue either an aggressive campaign in the Med (attempt to secure Egypt, the Middle East, Malta, and Algeria/Morocco) or a more passive strategy. Capturing Malta is usually very valuable no matter what Italy's Med strategy is to deny the Allies this key base.
Otherwise, Italy is usually assisting Germany in its major and minor strategies.
Allied Strategy
The Allies are, early on in the game, mainly reacting to the Axis strategy, in an effort to blunt or mitigate their offensives.
In the mid-game and following, the Allies have to seize the initiative and go on the offensive.
Allied Asia-Pacific Strategy
- The CW has to decide how much effort to put into fighting Japan, usually in terms of how many assets will be redeployed from the European theatre to fight here
- The US has to decide on its axes of advance into Japanese territory
- China has to decide where to bring its resources (Nationalist/Communist) to bear against the Japanese defenders
- USSR has to decide whether and when to commit to an offensive/counter-offensive against Japan
Allied European Strategy
- The Western Allies have to decide to what extent they will proceed with the strategic air offensive
- The Western Allies have to come up with their timetable/strategy for Mediterranean campaigns (Spain/North Africa/Italy) and the invasion of NW Europe (France/Low Countries)
- USSR has to come up with way to make come back against German invasion or plan attack against Germany if Germans instead stuffed the border
Incidental Strategies
- Western Allies have to decide whether to pursue a Baltic campaign (Denmark/Norway/Finland)
- USSR or Western Allies have to decide whether to conquer netural Middle Eastern countries to prevent them falling into the hands of the Axis & get their resources for their own use
I hope that is both a clear and concise summary of the strategic picture for both sides.
In terms of grand strategy, I think the choices facing each major power can be summarized thusly:
Germany
German strategy is perhaps the most flexible, as Germany holds all the initiative at the start of the game. In general, Germany's only restriction is that it must fight the Polish in 1939 (in theory, one could screen Poland and go after France; weather tends to make a mess of this strategy).
France/Low Countries
In general, Germany deals with France and the Low Countries in 1940. Later campaigns can be attempted; however France must be dispatched before US entry into the war or Germany is in very big trouble.
Barbarossa
Germany generally attempts an invasion of the USSR in 1940 (most likely this means screening against France), 1941, or 1942; the latter year is typically the invasion after a campaign in the UK or Spain. Later attacks are not likely to result in decisive victory for Germany, although a spoiler attack may be a good idea to destroy USSR forces in East Poland. Germany can usually get 1-2 good years in the USSR, after which the Red Army has usually recovered enough to make a come back.
Sealion
Germany can attempt an invasion of the UK in 1940 (France is screened and then dispatched after the front stabilizes in UK) or 1941, dependent upon German preparedness and lack of CW defences. Usually an invasion after 1941 is not possible due to American entry into the war. Conquest of the UK is rarely requried for Sealion to succeed; capture of >50% of English factories (say, up to the city line south of the central mountains) will usually hamper CW production sufficiently, especially if the convoy lines can be subsequently severed.
Mediterranean Campaign
In 1940 (if France falls very quickly) or 1941 Germany can usually take charge of this theatre in an attempt to secure Gibraltar (either overland via invading Spain or overseas based out of Portugal and/or Algeria) along with the Italian offensive/defensive objectives (see Italian grand strategy, below).
The Balkans
The question at the heart of this area is Yugoslavia: Germany & Italy must decide whether they want to conquer or align Yugoslavia. Alignment requires a particular set of circumstances to occur; conquest is much easier. Whatever course taken, the Balkan strategy is a secondary theatre compared to the above principal strategic directions.
Battle of the Atlantic
The commitment that Germany makes to this depends largely on the German grand strategy and on the production Germany is willing to put into submarines or surface raiders, and must be pursued with consideration to Germany's principal strategic aims.
In 1942 (unless the US is very unlucky in terms of entry and the Japanese are willing to put up with a boring mid-game) the initiative will pass from Germany to the Allies.
Japan
Japanese strategy is also relatively flexible; however strategies taking it into conflict against the CW early will result in earlier US entry, to the detriment of the Axis powers.
Early-War Strategy
Before going to war with the CW/US, Japan can choose to:
- Focus on China, in an attempt to secure as many resources and push the Chinese back to slow down their potential comeback late in the game. Outright conquest or crippling of China is unlikely but possible.
- Attack the USSR
- Attack the CW while it is very sparsely defended; this accelerates US entry into the war but may give Japan more time to conquer somewhere important before facing the Allied counter-attack
Mid-War Strategy
Japan has two phases of its mid-war strategy:
- First, securing the southern resource zone (Malaya, NEI, Philippines) and perimeter (Rabaul, Singapore, island bases and maybe Ceylon).
- Second, Japan can attempt to attack either India, Australia, or Pearl Harbour (Japanese players who are both skilled and fortunate may be able to secure two or three of these) - depending on the mass of Allied forces it may be the case that none of these can be secured.
- If Japan has not fought the USSR at this time, it may be conceivable to launch an attack to secure Vladivostok and some resources if the USSR is occupied fighting Germany.
After this point, usually by mid-to-late 1942, Japan is firmly on the defensive against the Allies.
Italy
Italy's strategic options are much more limited compared to the other Axis powers due to its weaker forces, weaker production, and being bottled in by Allied control of the entrance/exit points of the Med.
Meditteranean Strategy
Irrespective of German overall strategy, and with or without (better with) German aid, Italy can pursue either an aggressive campaign in the Med (attempt to secure Egypt, the Middle East, Malta, and Algeria/Morocco) or a more passive strategy. Capturing Malta is usually very valuable no matter what Italy's Med strategy is to deny the Allies this key base.
Otherwise, Italy is usually assisting Germany in its major and minor strategies.
Allied Strategy
The Allies are, early on in the game, mainly reacting to the Axis strategy, in an effort to blunt or mitigate their offensives.
In the mid-game and following, the Allies have to seize the initiative and go on the offensive.
Allied Asia-Pacific Strategy
- The CW has to decide how much effort to put into fighting Japan, usually in terms of how many assets will be redeployed from the European theatre to fight here
- The US has to decide on its axes of advance into Japanese territory
- China has to decide where to bring its resources (Nationalist/Communist) to bear against the Japanese defenders
- USSR has to decide whether and when to commit to an offensive/counter-offensive against Japan
Allied European Strategy
- The Western Allies have to decide to what extent they will proceed with the strategic air offensive
- The Western Allies have to come up with their timetable/strategy for Mediterranean campaigns (Spain/North Africa/Italy) and the invasion of NW Europe (France/Low Countries)
- USSR has to come up with way to make come back against German invasion or plan attack against Germany if Germans instead stuffed the border
Incidental Strategies
- Western Allies have to decide whether to pursue a Baltic campaign (Denmark/Norway/Finland)
- USSR or Western Allies have to decide whether to conquer netural Middle Eastern countries to prevent them falling into the hands of the Axis & get their resources for their own use
I hope that is both a clear and concise summary of the strategic picture for both sides.
~ Composer99
RE: Strategy
ORIGINAL: Cheesehead
There are several pages of strategy in the scenario book that offer some basic ideas of WiF strategy. To answer your question about successful Sea Lion's and WiF... yes, it is very much feasible for GE to invade and conquer England. I'm sad to say that I lost a game after seeing Britain conquered. I wrote up a game report on the WiF list back a few years ago after it happened, but good luck finding it. To summarize, here is how the Axis pull it off.
Do you still have the game report near? Can you post it again here or on the WiF list?
Michel Desjardins,
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"History is a set of lies agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte after the battle of Waterloo, june 18th, 1815
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"History is a set of lies agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte after the battle of Waterloo, june 18th, 1815
RE: Strategy
Bo,
Just sent you a bunch of LOC and the 98 Annual. Enjoy!
[:)]
Just sent you a bunch of LOC and the 98 Annual. Enjoy!
[:)]
"Time is the greatest teacher... Unfortunately she kills all her students."
RE: Strategy
Whew you guys can be my general anytime [&o] Patience I received all of them but cant open 98 annual any suggestions?
Bo
Bo
RE: Strategy
You can down load WINRAR at http://download.cnet.com/WinRAR-32-bit/ ... html. I sent you the PDF but its a huge 12 megs
"Time is the greatest teacher... Unfortunately she kills all her students."
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Extraneous
- Posts: 1810
- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:58 am
RE: Strategy
ORIGINAL: Patience
You can down load WINRAR at http://download.cnet.com/WinRAR-32-bit/ ... 07677.html. I sent you the PDF but its a huge 12 megs
Did you include a copy of "the "Sceanarios Booklet (RAW7scenario.pdf)" ?
The "Sceanarios Booklet" has good tips on basic stratagies.
University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)
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composer99
- Posts: 2931
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:00 am
- Location: Ottawa, Canada
- Contact:
RE: Strategy
The scenario booklet is available for download on ADGs website (www.a-d-g.com.au), and since Extraneous brought it up, the player's and designer's notes are worth reading through as well. Some of the player's notes are more than a few years old, though, so take tactical hints with a grain of salt.
~ Composer99
RE: Strategy
Thank you all, I had not sent that to him. [:)]
"Time is the greatest teacher... Unfortunately she kills all her students."