Repaired abandoned ships problem

[Chris21wen]

I'm using the latest patch v1.06 but I noticed the problem with an earlier version.

I was happily repairing a large number of abandoned ships in a system that I control (1 planet with space port and defense base) plus a fleet with 8 ships. I sent the fleet away to threaten another empire when suddenly the constructorships doing the repair had no mission. On inspection they had repaired the ships there were working on BUT the ships repaired did not belong to me. They belonged to an empire that had a military ship at the location.

I reloaded to a point before I moved the fleet away but that did no good.

I then sent the fleet to the area where the abandoned ships are and now the ships do belong to me when they are repaired.

Is this by design or a bug?

[Tophat1815]

I'd look at it more but if it was not by design I like the result.You had an unarmed constructor basically taken as a prize with all the damaged ships.Then you sent armed ships back and you regained your lost ships.people screamed for a tougher AI looks like its arrived.

[WoodMan]

Military ships claim wrecks faster than Constructors (I think this is something to do with a Sensor Array component but not sure).  The wreck can not be claimed until it is repaired, so as soon as the ship is repaired it is claimed.  If you have no military ships in the area and the opponent does, they will get the ship, as they claim it faster than your Constructor.

Similarly, if you see an AI Constructor repairing a wreck without a military escort, you can move your military ships next to it and when it finishes repairing the wreck, you will claim it for your Empire.

[Equendil]

I gifted a bunch of capital ships and cruisers that way to the AI who eventually used them to take my capital.[:@]

[adecoy95]

i have had this happen alot in my last game, its really annoying. i am 100% certain its a bug.

in the meantime, however, you can use the editor to give yourself the ships after they "steal" them

[Florestan]

This has already been debated a lot before. Simply add detector arrays to your constructor ship, or guard the ship debris field with military vessels to avoid this.

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

i have had this happen alot in my last game, its really annoying. i am 100% certain its a bug.

in the meantime, however, you can use the editor to give yourself the ships after they "steal" them

If you don't protect your constructor or the salvaged ships vs AI warships how is this a bug? Simple rule send an escort or escorts with the constructor. How many people have suggested this in the thread? Sheesh,a bug.

[LeonTheNeon]

In my view, it is a bug in that the constructor crew while in the process of repairing the ship almost certainly has a crew on board the ship under repair. The moment the ship becomes active the ship's crew would claim control of it for your empire. If the opposing Empire wishes to claim it they should have to fire on the constructor and send thier own constuctor to finish repairs.

This is particularly a problem because the AI doesn't guard its constructors when repairing debris (generally speaking, I saw one ship drop by for a moment once out of dozens of debris fields), so it is trivial to simply park an escort in the debris field and have the AI do all the work for you.

So if the ship's being captured isn't a bug, then the AI not protecting them is a bug.

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: LeonTheNeon

In my view, it is a bug in that the constructor crew while in the process of repairing the ship almost certainly has a crew on board the ship under repair. The moment the ship becomes active the ship's crew would claim control of it for your empire. If the opposing Empire wishes to claim it they should have to fire on the constructor and send thier own constuctor to finish repairs.

This is particularly a problem because the AI doesn't guard its constructors when repairing debris (generally speaking, I saw one ship drop by for a moment once out of dozens of debris fields), so it is trivial to simply park an escort in the debris field and have the AI do all the work for you.

So if the ship's being captured isn't a bug, then the AI not protecting them is a bug.

How does an unarmed commercial ship protect a newly repaired ship,even newly repaired warship,safe from a real warship? Send an armed escort..........old adage: Proper planning prevents poor performance.

[adecoy95]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

ORIGINAL: LeonTheNeon

In my view, it is a bug in that the constructor crew while in the process of repairing the ship almost certainly has a crew on board the ship under repair. The moment the ship becomes active the ship's crew would claim control of it for your empire. If the opposing Empire wishes to claim it they should have to fire on the constructor and send thier own constuctor to finish repairs.

This is particularly a problem because the AI doesn't guard its constructors when repairing debris (generally speaking, I saw one ship drop by for a moment once out of dozens of debris fields), so it is trivial to simply park an escort in the debris field and have the AI do all the work for you.

So if the ship's being captured isn't a bug, then the AI not protecting them is a bug.

How does an unarmed commercial ship protect a newly repaired ship,even newly repaired warship,safe from a real warship? Send an armed escort..........old adage: Proper planning prevents poor performance.

your making it more complicated than it really is... the constructor repairs a ship and gives it to your enemy. thats a bug

[Equendil]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812 If you don't protect your constructor or the salvaged ships vs AI warships how is this a bug?

Unless he was at war with that AI, that's entirely irrelevant.

[WoodMan]

your making it more complicated than it really is... the constructor repairs a ship and gives it to your enemy. thats a bug

To be honest in my opinion the Constructor that completes the repair should claim the ship yes.

If you don't protect your constructor or the salvaged ships vs AI warships how is this a bug? Simple rule send an escort or escorts with the constructor. How many people have suggested this in the thread? Sheesh,a bug.

Yes you should have to send an escort, to stop the enemy blowing up your Constructor and stealing the wreck with their own Constructor, but not because your constructor crew who are aboard the wreck ready to return it home for fuelling suddenly decide to switch sides [:D]   

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

ORIGINAL: LeonTheNeon

In my view, it is a bug in that the constructor crew while in the process of repairing the ship almost certainly has a crew on board the ship under repair. The moment the ship becomes active the ship's crew would claim control of it for your empire. If the opposing Empire wishes to claim it they should have to fire on the constructor and send thier own constuctor to finish repairs.

This is particularly a problem because the AI doesn't guard its constructors when repairing debris (generally speaking, I saw one ship drop by for a moment once out of dozens of debris fields), so it is trivial to simply park an escort in the debris field and have the AI do all the work for you.

So if the ship's being captured isn't a bug, then the AI not protecting them is a bug.

How does an unarmed commercial ship protect a newly repaired ship,even newly repaired warship,safe from a real warship? Send an armed escort..........old adage: Proper planning prevents poor performance.

your making it more complicated than it really is... the constructor repairs a ship and gives it to your enemy. thats a bug

In the situation specified another empires warship shows up and claims the repaired ship from the unarmed constructor.If your own warship is present it precludes that happening.

[dpazuk]

From my perspective, I see this as being by design, rather then a bug. Only the devs know for sure and perhaps they can shed a little light on this for us?

I had the same thing happen to me. Once I had a fleet in the area guarding my constructor, all ships repaired by my constructor immediately became mine.

Now, here is something really interesting to which I do not know if it was of my own doing or not. I found another large alien capital ship, which looked similar to the World Destroyer, and I began repairing it. I had a small fleet parked by it for claiming.

The AI sent in a repair ship to work on it, as well as a few of their own warships.

Now, here is the interesting part. It appears that, the AI knowing I was going to claim a potentially potent weapon, decided to take their own warship and blow up the wreck my constructor was working on!

Now, again, it only appears that this occurred, at least to me. It maybe that a constructor working on an alien wreck of unknown design has a small chance of destroying the wreck. I would like to think the AI was that smart and not a result of my own repair engineers messing up. [:D]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

I'm using the latest patch v1.06 but I noticed the problem with an earlier version.

I was happily repairing a large number of abandoned ships in a system that I control (1 planet with space port and defense base) plus a fleet with 8 ships. I sent the fleet away to threaten another empire when suddenly the constructorships doing the repair had no mission. On inspection they had repaired the ships there were working on BUT the ships repaired did not belong to me. They belonged to an empire that had a military ship at the location.

I reloaded to a point before I moved the fleet away but that did no good.

I then sent the fleet to the area where the abandoned ships are and now the ships do belong to me when they are repaired.

Is this by design or a bug?

[Tophat1815]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

I'm using the latest patch v1.06 but I noticed the problem with an earlier version.

I was happily repairing a large number of abandoned ships in a system that I control (1 planet with space port and defense base) plus a fleet with 8 ships. I sent the fleet away to threaten another empire when suddenly the constructorships doing the repair had no mission. On inspection they had repaired the ships there were working on BUT the ships repaired did not belong to me. They belonged to an empire that had a military ship at the location.

I reloaded to a point before I moved the fleet away but that did no good.

I then sent the fleet to the area where the abandoned ships are and now the ships do belong to me when they are repaired.

Is this by design or a bug?

Here is the situation we were discussing when the thread started. I had a similar situation happen to me and it was an ai empire I had trade and map exchange with. Between this the random fatal Giant Kaltor encounter and pirates I always send escorts.And i always post a guard over discovered abandoned ships to prevent interlopers.It seems to work hunky dori for me.

[Chris21wen]

Personnally I think it's a bug. As soon as a constructorship starts working to repair a ship that ship should then become part of your empire, not after it's repaired. As some one said you would have a crew on board.

[WoodMan]

Personnally I think it's a bug. As soon as a constructorship starts working to repair a ship that ship should then become part of your empire, not after it's repaired. As some one said you would have a crew on board.

Not as soon as they start work, as soon as they finish work, otherwise you could use one Constructor to repair slightly each ship in a debris field without finishing any of them to claim the field.  Other than that, I agree [;)]

Edit: However, if the AI also knows how to do the above tactic, it wouldn't really matter if it worked that way.

[LeonTheNeon]

Who says the constructor ship is unarmed? I have weapons on my constructor ships so I don't have to send escorts.

Again, even if you argue that the warship sitting nearby somehow claims the ship against the poor defenseless constructor ship, even though the warship that is repaired is obviously manned at completion and ready to fight, and even if you argue that it is simple to overcome by simply having your own escort nearby your left with two problems:

1 - I've had escorts in system and STILL lost the ship because the other guy saw it first

2 - The AI generally speaking does not defend its constructor ships while defending debris fields

3 - It doesn't make a lick of sense when dealing with allies. Would a close personal friend claim a ship I'm repairing because his warship saw it first?

No matter how you slice it there is a bug with abandoned ships under repair.

To me the fact that the ship is war-ready upon repair completion implies that a combat capable crew is onboard. Assuming no other ships nearby, just a constructor and the ship to be repaired, the crew must have come from the constructor. Therefore, in the instance, where another ship is nearby the crew still would have come from the constuctor, which says to me, the ship is secured by the empire repairing it as it is being repaired.

To me the fix should be that while under repair a ship is owned by the empire repairing it, if the constructor stops repairing it before repairs are completed it toggles back to be abandonded. Then if you really really want the ship, you have to open fire on the constructor and drive him off. As a side effect this also removes the bug that you can destroy the abandoned ship being repaired without diplomatic repercussion.

[dpazuk]

ORIGINAL: As a side effect this also removes the bug that you can destroy the abandoned ship being repaired without diplomatic repercussion.

I agree with your reasoning on this and you make valid points.

It also helps to answer the question as to what had happened me during my current game, which I covered in my post.

[Pipewrench]

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Personnally I think it's a bug. As soon as a constructorship starts working to repair a ship that ship should then become part of your empire, not after it's repaired. As some one said you would have a crew on board.

Not as soon as they start work, as soon as they finish work, otherwise you could use one Constructor to repair slightly each ship in a debris field without finishing any of them to claim the field.  Other than that, I agree [;)]

Edit: However, if the AI also knows how to do the above tactic, it wouldn't really matter if it worked that way.

+1,

and as a huge abstraction into reasoning....

with a constructor ship losing military escort and not having weapons strong enough to defend itself against another empires intrusion, it seems to me the engineers would retreat back to the constructor and ceed the ship. Even to throw out the logic as to how in the heck can a engineer run an advanced design immediatly upon repairing the ship.[:)]

3 mechanics who fix spitfires find a f-18 in the mud and get to work pumping up the tires and fixing the windshield wipers. after a short nap they read the manual and decide with the skill they learned to take it for a spin and see what mach 1 feels like.

still I love the game and what people are posting makes one think....