A question to those able to run large carrier battles without a lock-up
Moderators: Joel Billings, Tankerace, siRkid
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Basement Command
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2001 10:00 am
- Location: Boise, ID
A question to those able to run large carrier battles without a lock-up
Some of us can not engage in decisive carrier battles because the game locks-up while these battles are being resolved. Other, smaller battles seem to run fine. We're looking for a trend regarding hardware (video cards etc...) and software (for example operating systems) to help identify the cause of game lock-ups during the IJN attack phases of large carrier battles. So far, looking from the perspective of identifying common aspects of systems that do lock-up has not identified any clear trend. For those of us who HAVE NOT experienced these lock-ups while large IJN air groups are attacking Allied Task Forces, I have a question... What kind of system are you running? What OS, Processor, Video and sound cards? How Much RAM, etc... maybe if we can't identify what percipitates these lock-ups, we can start to get an idea of what works particularly well. Give a hand to those of us who can not really use this game to its potential and post your answers here. Thanks.
The only skills I have the patience to learn are those that have no practical application in real life.
I have noticed a couple (meaning exactly two) lock-ups during carrier engagements - and it occurred when I tried to exit out of the combat animations.
When I hit the exit button at the top, the game froze. It happened every single time, until I went back and just let it run.
This was the Clash of the Titans scenario as well.
I've got a P4 1.8G, 80Gig HD, 64M Video card (not sure which one, will check tonight).
When I hit the exit button at the top, the game froze. It happened every single time, until I went back and just let it run.
This was the Clash of the Titans scenario as well.
I've got a P4 1.8G, 80Gig HD, 64M Video card (not sure which one, will check tonight).
Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon.....
Lock Up's
Greetings, On my old system I never had a carrier battle lock up but I once in a while had game lock up or drop to desk top after playing many hours (and alt-tabing back and forth zipping and un zipping PBEM files and remaining on line while making turns.)
Now I usally have the game lockup once or twice a day but I am running on a differant machine. (I think the voodoo video card is the problem, since the CPU is a 800mhtz versus the 400 I used to play on (but I had a better video card.) Also I used to use win 98 this machine has win ME. All that said I have not ever!!!! had a lock up while the turn was being processed only when I was making my orders. While watching replays of turns I have locked up game on the voodoo machine by clicking done during combat (I never do this during the air attack part of carrier battles though only during land combat or the air to air.) The old machine never had a problem (I think it was a Diamond (something) video card.)Hope this helps
Now I usally have the game lockup once or twice a day but I am running on a differant machine. (I think the voodoo video card is the problem, since the CPU is a 800mhtz versus the 400 I used to play on (but I had a better video card.) Also I used to use win 98 this machine has win ME. All that said I have not ever!!!! had a lock up while the turn was being processed only when I was making my orders. While watching replays of turns I have locked up game on the voodoo machine by clicking done during combat (I never do this during the air attack part of carrier battles though only during land combat or the air to air.) The old machine never had a problem (I think it was a Diamond (something) video card.)Hope this helps
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
XP Pro SP1 & Uncommon Valor patched to 1.4
I've experienced lockups only during carrier engagements. I've also experienced this on two different computers with XP Pro. It always happens during carrier battles with animation on or off. I save very often...so the only way I can get around this lockup is if I avoid "THE" carrier battle. Kind of annoying....
Same lockups during similar situation on different systems using XP Pro:
AMD XP 1700+
ASUS A7V266E
512mb RAM
GF3 Ti200 (using latest WMD drivers 30.87)
Audigy
120GB HD
&
PII 350
old ABIT mobo
256mb RAM
old Matrox card
SB X-gamer
20 gb HD
Both DirectX 8.1
One thing I've noticed. The lockup always occurs when the JAPs are counterattacking during the same turn. Usually I cream the JAP carriers, and when the Jap strike wave comes in, it locks up before the battle report (remember this is with or without battle animation). I also noticed that the direction the attack wave is coming in from is completely wrong (you'd expect it to come from their carriers). Instead of coming from the direction of the Jap carriers it comes from a group of ships that don't have any carriers......
Always with BIG engagements, 4 US vs. 3 or 4 Jap carriers.
I've experienced lockups only during carrier engagements. I've also experienced this on two different computers with XP Pro. It always happens during carrier battles with animation on or off. I save very often...so the only way I can get around this lockup is if I avoid "THE" carrier battle. Kind of annoying....
Same lockups during similar situation on different systems using XP Pro:
AMD XP 1700+
ASUS A7V266E
512mb RAM
GF3 Ti200 (using latest WMD drivers 30.87)
Audigy
120GB HD
&
PII 350
old ABIT mobo
256mb RAM
old Matrox card
SB X-gamer
20 gb HD
Both DirectX 8.1
One thing I've noticed. The lockup always occurs when the JAPs are counterattacking during the same turn. Usually I cream the JAP carriers, and when the Jap strike wave comes in, it locks up before the battle report (remember this is with or without battle animation). I also noticed that the direction the attack wave is coming in from is completely wrong (you'd expect it to come from their carriers). Instead of coming from the direction of the Jap carriers it comes from a group of ships that don't have any carriers......
Always with BIG engagements, 4 US vs. 3 or 4 Jap carriers.
Hi!
I had this problem with a lock-up when two large CV groups swapped airstrikes.
I sent a save game to Matrix, and they were able to duplicate the problem, so I'd say it was a bug not necessarily related to my configuration.
I'm hoping they're going to fix it in the next release.
Hope this helps...
Paul
I had this problem with a lock-up when two large CV groups swapped airstrikes.
I sent a save game to Matrix, and they were able to duplicate the problem, so I'd say it was a bug not necessarily related to my configuration.
I'm hoping they're going to fix it in the next release.
Hope this helps...
Paul
no lockups
In hundreds of hours of play, both vs the AI and PBEM I have never had a lock-up or a crash to desktop. I wish I could say that about most other games!
I have v1.4, the system is a P4 1.8ghz with 256M memory, XP Home with SP1 and an Nvidia GF2 MX400 with 64 MB
I have v1.4, the system is a P4 1.8ghz with 256M memory, XP Home with SP1 and an Nvidia GF2 MX400 with 64 MB
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile- hoping it will eat him last
- Winston Churchill
- Winston Churchill
No lockups
New PC p4 1.4, Nvidia GF2 MX400 with 64 MB, 256mb RAM,
Old pc, p3 800mghz, Riva tnt2 riva with 32mb, 128mb ram,
both on windows 2000.
Old pc, p3 800mghz, Riva tnt2 riva with 32mb, 128mb ram,
both on windows 2000.
With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?
"OK all yo geezers that say you've never had a lockup.
Have you ever had a major carrier engagement???
4 or more US vs. 3 or more Jap carriers??"
Well erict,
I really wouldn't be replying to this thread unless I had (been engaged in a major carrier battle, specifically 4 on 4).
:^)
I don't really expect to have problems with any game on my box, and I like it that way.
For what it's worth, if I had to make a wild-***-guess about why folks might get lock-ups, the most likely culprit is going to be memory leaks, and thus a shortage of RAM.
Not to say that 256meg or more shouldn't be enough (or whatever it says on the box). But MOST software is riddled with subtle memory leaks. I'm not criticizing Matrix, 2by3 or anyone. It doesn't matter how good a developer you are, these buggers bite everyone.
A memory leak is where you have several processes going on at once in the program, and you no longer need some of the processes, but you don't actually terminate the process(es); or maybe you terminate it later than you should. What happens is that these extra processes are chewing up your available memory, and dragging the important ones that are actually doing things that you need. For example (and I'm just "for exampling" here!)
Carrier battle goes like this:
Spotting.
Lauch.
Intercept.
Air-to-Air.
Damage.
Air-to-Surface.
Damage.
Couterstrike etc...
Let's say for simplicity that each of those events is separate program. When everything is happy, all of the programs play well together, and you can play out a large carrier battle just fine.
But now lets say you forget to actually TERMINATE the spotting rountine. You've set the flag that the TF has been spotted, and you move on to calling the program that rolls against your leadership to see if you launch. But even tho you have the RESULT from the spotting program, you don't actually terminate the thing, so it still remains in memory, acting as a drag on resources. This is the memory leak. You've "leaking memory" because you don't actually have available all that could have, because you're dragging those unecessary resources. The worst case of a memory leak is where you run out memory (because you're at capacity with the processes that you need -and- those that you don't). At this point (depending on how things are coded), you try to hit some extra space on your hard-drive (called the cache), to relieve the burden on the RAM. When you run out of RAM and cache, you're out of luck. "Unpredictable Results May Occur", in other words, you're screwed.
Sorry for the long explanation. But simple answer is ALOT of programs (in fact, MOST) programs are riddled with memory leaks, minor as they may be. I know it sounds rather cliche' to blame lock-ups on them, but the fact is, that's the simplest explanation. However, the simplest isn't necessarily the easiest to fix. Folks with more RAM are going to be less affected by memory leaks, because they have a larger well to draw from in the first place.
(* shrug *)
Then again. I could be way wrong.
-F-
Have you ever had a major carrier engagement???
4 or more US vs. 3 or more Jap carriers??"
Well erict,
I really wouldn't be replying to this thread unless I had (been engaged in a major carrier battle, specifically 4 on 4).
:^)
I don't really expect to have problems with any game on my box, and I like it that way.
For what it's worth, if I had to make a wild-***-guess about why folks might get lock-ups, the most likely culprit is going to be memory leaks, and thus a shortage of RAM.
Not to say that 256meg or more shouldn't be enough (or whatever it says on the box). But MOST software is riddled with subtle memory leaks. I'm not criticizing Matrix, 2by3 or anyone. It doesn't matter how good a developer you are, these buggers bite everyone.
A memory leak is where you have several processes going on at once in the program, and you no longer need some of the processes, but you don't actually terminate the process(es); or maybe you terminate it later than you should. What happens is that these extra processes are chewing up your available memory, and dragging the important ones that are actually doing things that you need. For example (and I'm just "for exampling" here!)
Carrier battle goes like this:
Spotting.
Lauch.
Intercept.
Air-to-Air.
Damage.
Air-to-Surface.
Damage.
Couterstrike etc...
Let's say for simplicity that each of those events is separate program. When everything is happy, all of the programs play well together, and you can play out a large carrier battle just fine.
But now lets say you forget to actually TERMINATE the spotting rountine. You've set the flag that the TF has been spotted, and you move on to calling the program that rolls against your leadership to see if you launch. But even tho you have the RESULT from the spotting program, you don't actually terminate the thing, so it still remains in memory, acting as a drag on resources. This is the memory leak. You've "leaking memory" because you don't actually have available all that could have, because you're dragging those unecessary resources. The worst case of a memory leak is where you run out memory (because you're at capacity with the processes that you need -and- those that you don't). At this point (depending on how things are coded), you try to hit some extra space on your hard-drive (called the cache), to relieve the burden on the RAM. When you run out of RAM and cache, you're out of luck. "Unpredictable Results May Occur", in other words, you're screwed.
Sorry for the long explanation. But simple answer is ALOT of programs (in fact, MOST) programs are riddled with memory leaks, minor as they may be. I know it sounds rather cliche' to blame lock-ups on them, but the fact is, that's the simplest explanation. However, the simplest isn't necessarily the easiest to fix. Folks with more RAM are going to be less affected by memory leaks, because they have a larger well to draw from in the first place.
(* shrug *)
Then again. I could be way wrong.
-F-
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me
reboot
I'll lock up on the first turn I play each day if I don't reboot before I launch the program. Sometimes it will lock up one time even after a fresh boot, but never more than once. Then I can play for hours no problem.
I got 1.2 ath., 512 ram [133], Ge3 128mb ti, 40 gig 7200rpm HD [defraged, windows mem locked to 512 mb], win 98 se.
Check your system resources, see how much you have free. If you bleed out memory up will lock. I keep 94 to 98% free.
Good luck
I got 1.2 ath., 512 ram [133], Ge3 128mb ti, 40 gig 7200rpm HD [defraged, windows mem locked to 512 mb], win 98 se.
Check your system resources, see how much you have free. If you bleed out memory up will lock. I keep 94 to 98% free.
Good luck
Live like a King and Die like a man.
4 US vs. 3- or 4 Jap carriers
Carrier battle goes like this:
Spotting.
Lauch.
Intercept.
Air-to-Air.
Damage.
Air-to-Surface.
Damage.
Couterstrike
Spotting.
Lauch.
Intercept. <<<<------------ At this phase during the Japanese counterattack it always locks up. Before the battle report pops up. =(
Air-to-Air.
Damage.
Air-to-Surface.
Damage.
Carrier battle goes like this:
Spotting.
Lauch.
Intercept.
Air-to-Air.
Damage.
Air-to-Surface.
Damage.
Couterstrike
Spotting.
Lauch.
Intercept. <<<<------------ At this phase during the Japanese counterattack it always locks up. Before the battle report pops up. =(
Air-to-Air.
Damage.
Air-to-Surface.
Damage.
Originally posted by Feinder
A memory leak is where you have several processes going on at once in the program, and you no longer need some of the processes, but you don't actually terminate the process(es); or maybe you terminate it later than you should. What happens is that these extra processes are chewing up your available memory, and dragging the important ones that are actually doing things that you need.
Um. Err. Sorry, no. I hate to be a mean bastard here, but that's not the primary cause of memory leaks by any stretch.
Primary cause of memory leaks:
Writing programs in C, and mismatching malloc() and free().
You can do it in C++ too, and mismatch new and delete, with the additional bonus that your destructors don't get called.
Here's a decent definition
Then again. I could be way wrong.
Memory leaks are common in many applications, yes. No doubts there. However, they are very frequently misunderstood and blamed for every single slow down that happens.I love it when a plan comes together.
I don't think you're a mean bastard.
I'm quite sure that we're both very knowledgable about this sort of thing.
I was simply trying to put a (broad) defination of a memory leak into a frame that (most) everyone can understand.
Regards,
-F-
I'm quite sure that we're both very knowledgable about this sort of thing.
I was simply trying to put a (broad) defination of a memory leak into a frame that (most) everyone can understand.
Regards,
-F-
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me
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Ross Moorhouse
- Posts: 780
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 5:00 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Hey Feinder
"OK all yo geezers that say you've never had a lockup...."
I resemble that remark:)
Besides that though, no I have never had a lock up and I have had huge carrier battles with hundreds of aircraft involved not to mention land based.
My largest was where as the Jap I was making my first major push down towards Luganville after securing PM. I had 8-9 carriers in all with several other task forces and was attacked by a very aggresive AI that sent 4 US carriers and a couple hundred land based air. I thought I had cleaned out that darn pesky airfield, darn Allies scraped together everything that had a set of wings it seemed. What a huge series of air and sea battles that ensued..it was great.
I have a p4 1.7 Ghz with 512 Mb ram and use an ati 9000 pro with 128 Mb.
Sabre21
"OK all yo geezers that say you've never had a lockup...."
I resemble that remark:)
Besides that though, no I have never had a lock up and I have had huge carrier battles with hundreds of aircraft involved not to mention land based.
My largest was where as the Jap I was making my first major push down towards Luganville after securing PM. I had 8-9 carriers in all with several other task forces and was attacked by a very aggresive AI that sent 4 US carriers and a couple hundred land based air. I thought I had cleaned out that darn pesky airfield, darn Allies scraped together everything that had a set of wings it seemed. What a huge series of air and sea battles that ensued..it was great.
I have a p4 1.7 Ghz with 512 Mb ram and use an ati 9000 pro with 128 Mb.
Sabre21
Sabre...
"Old Geezers". I was quoting erict.
At 31, I'm not sure if I resemble it or not, but sometimes it sure feels that way!
Actually, wouldn't this thread normally be in the Tech Support/Solutions forum or something?
-F-
"Old Geezers". I was quoting erict.
At 31, I'm not sure if I resemble it or not, but sometimes it sure feels that way!
Actually, wouldn't this thread normally be in the Tech Support/Solutions forum or something?
-F-
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me