Challenge factor

[jomni]

Given that the Germans clobbered the Allies historically in these campaigns, how does the game make things interesting when playing both the German and Allied sides?

[WilliePete]

there are what the game calls "variants," several for each scenario that can alter what happened historicaly. The historical game is considered to be the easiest to play. Varients can be a change in the weather or Britain sending troops to aid Poland, Russian sending aid, ect.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: jomni

Given that the Germans clobbered the Allies historically in these campaigns, how does the game make things interesting when playing both the German and Allied sides?

It took over a month to conquer Poland, almost as long as it took to conquer France. Osprey records a loss of 674 panzers with 16000 German KIA. Case White was not a push over.

Case Yellow hinged heavily on fate - and the strategic decision making of both sides. Don't forget, in terms of armor that of France was superior. Will they know how to use it this time?

And of course, we have no idea of the effect of Captain Manwaring on the invasion of Walmington-on-Sea.

[WilliePete]

Adam, maybe you can help me. What do the numbers on front of the map counters represent? Im not talking about the Divisional numbers either. There are another set of numbers infantry seems to 50, atry 21, ect. What exactly do they represent? cant find a direct answer in the manual. thanks

[Adam Parker]

Hi Willie, I haven't bought this game yet so can't help you right now. I'm waiting for someone to post some gameplay before deciding.

Have you started your own thread on this? Maybe give that a go. Would enjoy hearing how you're finding the game too!

[D.Ilse]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

ORIGINAL: jomni

Given that the Germans clobbered the Allies historically in these campaigns, how does the game make things interesting when playing both the German and Allied sides?

It took over a month to conquer Poland, almost as long as it took to conquer France. Osprey records a loss of 674 panzers with 16000 German KIA. Case White was not a push over.

Case Yellow hinged heavily on fate - and the strategic decision making of both sides. Don't forget, in terms of armor that of France was superior. Will they know how to use it this time?

And of course, we have no idea of the effect of Captain Manwaring on the invasion of Walmington-on-Sea.

yep. 4.Panzer got the bad end of the stick several times in Poland.

4th Panzer Division was one of the first to cross into Poland to take part in the
invasion of that country. The 4th PD was equipped with 183 Panzer I, 130 Panzer II, 12
Panzer IV and 16 PzBef. In an attempt to capture one town the 4th lost 80 tanks when it
drove down the main entrance to the town that had been soaked with turpentine and set
ablaze

.

[Duck Doc]

"The collapse of France before the German onslaught of 1940 was not, as many historians have argued, the result of the Wehrmacht's absolute superiority or the terrible fury of blitzkrieg. Indeed, writes Ernest May in Strange Victory, France had more soldiers in the field than did Germany, their arms were evenly matched in many categories and superior in many others, and the German army was far from fearless." - from amazon.com's review.

In the case of France (the Poles commited suicide) the outcome was not pre-determined at all. What has been boring & unchallenging has been the previous wargame treatments of this campaign which provide only the Manstein variant to play. If you allow variable set-ups & give the Allies a fair chance it becomes very difficult for the Germans to win. Their doctrine & their operational flexibilty were superior but it may not have been enough without the surprise factor of the Ardennes gateway for strong panzer forces.

I am eager to play & test out the variants. Vic has provided exactly what a wargame should when doing this campaign. Should be fun!

[Barthheart]

Even with the game set to completely historical setups and all, the game can be a challenge.
In all scenarios the Germans are on pretty tight timetables. They need to be very aggressive to advance fast enough while being careful not to lose too many troops. The Allies get to try different things than their historical counter parts - Poles can trade men for tiem and land, teh Allies in France can try and not use the Dyle Plan.

Operation Sealion is probably the hardest for the Germans, even against the British AI I lose this scenario more often than win it.

The victory condition are setup well to give both sides a chance at winning.

[Vic]

ORIGINAL: Barthheart
Operation Sealion is probably the hardest for the Germans, even against the British AI I lose this scenario more often than win it.

Yes and the standard variant setting for Sealion is not historical but more in favour of the Germans to make the scenario more balanced.