Ocean of (Allied) Blood.

[Yakface]

I don't think anyone could hold it against you Geoff.  If it was Scn 1 or 2 then you would still get carrier superiority back in mid-late 43.  Only getting parity in march 44 severely reduces anything you could do with the rest of the game.
 
Sorry to see it end, but it's probably the right move.

[Canoerebel]

Yubari, don't give up yet. Your morale is through the floor. Take a few days. Then work up enough determination to do at least another turn or two. If you do that, the clouds will begin to lift, you will sense the seed of a desire to see things through, and you will come back and win the game.

[janh]

Well, too bad, this was really a very exciting AAR.  And I think despite the debacle near Ceylon, you really had managed to maneuver FatR into a very precarious situation.  I suppose for a good 1-1.5 game years you'd have had make up with skill and tricks until you'd have enough carriers back online to challenge KB.  But you already had evaporated a lot of his light carriers and surely would have come out front once the Hellcats, the Corsairs and the Thuds would have made their appearance. Already now FatR has been bleeding badly fighting your LBA on the Adamans, and risking KB there would be a quick loss of some CV.

I suppose both Pearl and the Adamans will not be an option for FatR to (re)take, and if you would have managed to sneak in some supply to the former, you could really have turned this game into an LBA nightmare for him.  I was too curious to see the outcome of it, but I would say you really managed to corner FatR up with your Adamans campaign.  I think you want to throw the towel to early, despite the losses.  Things don't look good from Nippon either, in fact I think worse by the day...!

[bigred]

Hornet reacts towards the enemy.

Halsey must be in command.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yubari, misery not only loves company, it needs it.

Bro, I've been just where you are and worse. Most other Allied players have too. It really, really stinks. It's demoralizing. It's horrifying.

Probably one in four Allied players toss in the towel at this point. Those who soldier on make a surprising discovery: the Allies can come back and defeat Japan. It's challenging and it will make you a better player...and man is it sweet!

So stick in there and do it!

Dan speaks good and wise words here. It would be good to at least think on it some. If you still want to throw in the towel, let someone else soldier on if they want.

Good thoughts and spirit to you Sir!

[yubari]

Well the good news is that Bigred has sent me a PM saying that he wants to continue as the allies, good luck to him.

As soon as I sent the surrender notice I read the FatR AAR and it was very interesting, I never realised how desperate things were on his side. If I had kept up the night bombing attacks then I think that I would almost certainly have won that battle. At the very least I would have kept the KB around the Hawaiian Islands for another month or two which would have allowed me to perform my plan how I originally wanted to do it; namely a landing on West Sumatra in mid to late June followed a couple of weeks later by the landings in the Andamans. As I suspected it appears that the IJAAF in particular was seriously short of planes, something that I was trying to achieve since the start of the game.

Some words about the mod.

I think the first thing to say is that this mod is absolutely vicious. The three Japanese CVLs placed in a high speed task force at Palau can overwhelm anything that the Dutch or British can send at the start of the game, as evidenced in this game by the landings at Palembang on about turn 4. Two additional CVEs at Palau mean that practically nothing can escape from the Philippines if the Japanese player chooses to strangle them. I am not certain if that improves the playability of the game in the very early stages.

I have noticed that FatR complained a lot about the hugely increased Chinese troops in this mod. While certainly they were not a hindrance for the allies I am not certain how useful they are. After 6 months there is now mass starvation in Chinese units. Nearly all of my units in the field were short of supplies and a considerable number were completely out of supplies and starving. The only cities with any supplies at all were Chungking and another city nearby, Wuchow and Changsha. Certainly China would never have been able to perform any offensives due to supply.

Just the small increase in speed for the Zeroes and Oscars made a huge difference in the combat performance; none of the allied fighters, with the exception of the Hurricane, stood a chance against sweeping Japanese planes. I think that this speed increase has been taken out of the latest version.

The Japanese navy has been hugely boosted with the three Shokaku Kai carriers, even without the losses I suffered I would not have reached carrier equality until 1944. All in all I think that this makes the mod a considerably greater challenge than scenario 2 for the allied player.


Some words about the final battle.

Even nearly two weeks later, I cannot believe how stupid and complacent I was in assuming that the Japanese carriers were in Japan upgrading. I would like to have seen the result of the battle if I had not set all of my bombers on 50 percent ASW. The strategic plan was excellent, my operation of it imbecilic.

In many ways the crucial battle happened (or actually didnt happen) about a month earlier, at the end of May. I was one turn away from inflicting a similar ambush on FatR, when 5 US carriers appeared about 10 hexes away from the mini KB. Such a battle there would I think have been a similar massacre in reverse and would have left me with carrier superiority for the rest of the game. It also made me call off the Sumatra invasion, with the Japanese carriers known to be deep in the Pacific at the time, I should have proceeded with the invasion.

Anyway, time for me to disappear in shame and for bigred to take over the good fight.

[John 3rd]

Yubari:

I would like more details on your Allied perspective on the Mod.

Thoughts/Questions:
1. With the recently released 2E Version we brought the Zero back into historical speeds (don't really know how its speed got increased since FatR, Juan, and myself don't remember touching it). That change would not have impacted your game since it was so far along.

2. The forward deployment of the Imperial Fleet does make life much more difficult (if not impossible). No doubt about that. Do you think starting the CVLs in Cam Rahn Bay or even Nagasaki without the speed bonus would help? They would still get into it but a few days AFTER hostilities began.

3. The only changes applied to the Imperial Fleet and Air Arm. Did you feel like the army was any different? I mean to ask did the changes to the Fleet make the Army SEEM more powerful?

4. Did the addition of the Allied Convoys at the start of the game in Pago Pago and moving towards Port Moresby make any difference or change anything from your perspective? Have strongly thought about adding a few more warships to the Pago Pago TF and add the Lexington TF covering the Operation.

5. Did you consider conversion of the AOs to CVEs allowed for in this Mod?

My experiences with Lew haven't been quite as marked as yours but I have seen some of the above points.

I am always looking for ways to make the Mod fun for BOTH sides. Any helpful suggestions would be well-received. Thanks for the AAR and your commentary.

Have been making notes about an eventual 3.0 Version where the expansion remains but the Fleet pilot's experience is DROPPED about 10-15% to reflect a last minute attempt to expand the Imperial Air Arm. There are more planes and they are more modern, however, less pilot starting experience might really serve to balance that some.

John

[FatR]

Now that I can look here...

First overall comments.

The Allied counterattack plan was strong, unexpected and put me in very precarious situation. Even though I tried to avoid the ghost of RL Solomons campaign, the development of events eventually resembled Solomons squared. I also was, as Yubari correctly noted, quite close to sending a reduced Mini-KB to its death in Andamans. I guess my cauitiousness kicked right in time. I also must admit that I suffered from unfortunate target fixation on Hawaii, and failed to give proper attention to finishing things in DEI/Burma. I also failed to give a proper consideration to Allied options, instead allowing my own preferences to color my strategic calculations.

Unfortunately for Allies, in parallel to RL Battle of Midway, making assumptions about enemy's behavior and splitting the forces, plus a stroke of luck (mainly before the battle, in torpedoing Enterprise), allowed me to make a comeback. Such is the reality of naval war, than even the strong strategy can sometimes be undone by a tactical blunder. I already told my thoughs on Allied situation after the battle, and they are even reposted here, so I won't repeat them.

As about China, it's news to me that Allied supply situation already was crippling. In a few last battles in June, Chinese troops seemed to perform decently. So, I was still rather worried about the theatre.


Now about the mod.

ORIGINAL: yubari
I think the first thing to say is that this mod is absolutely vicious. The three Japanese CVLs placed in a high speed task force at Palau can overwhelm anything that the Dutch or British can send at the start of the game, as evidenced in this game by the landings at Palembang on about turn 4. Two additional CVEs at Palau mean that practically nothing can escape from the Philippines if the Japanese player chooses to strangle them. I am not certain if that improves the playability of the game in the very early stages.

I thought so too. Now, I'm not so sure. At least in scen 2, and probably in scen 1, you can land in Palemang within 10 days of the start of the game. I know that in my new game against Itdepends (Scen 2) I was there with over 300 AV on December 17th. I expected a heavy surface battle, but with four battleships and four heavy cruisers, never mind a bunch of smaller ships, was almost sure to win. And was willing to lose some majorwarships for this prize. But Force Z attacked (and died) in Eastern DEI instead.

ORIGINAL: yubari
The Japanese navy has been hugely boosted with the three Shokaku Kai carriers, even without the losses I suffered I would not have reached carrier equality until 1944. All in all I think that this makes the mod a considerably greater challenge than scenario 2 for the allied player.

Again, now that I've seen in scenario 2... not believing this. The 10-EXP/skill boost across most of the starting airforce might be worth one extra carrier (Shinano is a Taiho-class CV in Scen 2, so Scen 70 gives Japan only one extra flight deck) by itself.

I'll post a few more comments later, if I have the time.

[FatR]

A note on KB deployment, that wasn't stated in my own AAR: I always tried to give my carriers a few days at base before every new mission. This, and strongly avoiding full speed was enough to keep sys damage down, except at the very beginning of the war, when Kaga briefly accumulated enough to drop in speed. Directly before deploying to Andamans, the main KB was resting at Kwajalein, fully repaired and rearmed - I stopped believing in a serious attempt to save Hawaii by that point, but couldn't discount the possibility of this option getting back on the table if the main Japanese carrier force is obviously committed elsewhere. So it sailed immediately after USN carriers appeared. Mini-KB, meanwhile, had time to rest and repair in Soerabaja, while the main KB was making its way to Indian Ocean (with a stop for refuel and a day of repairs at Kendari).

[John 3rd]

I concur on the Fleet front. For the three Sho-Kai the Japanese player loses Taiho. Shinano is nowhere around but that is no big loss for Japan. The net gain for the Japanese is two large flightdecks in Scen 70 AND that they come in in 1943--not 1944 when little can be done.

[FatR]

On the second thought, and after looking at the Allied side, it is probably still better for gameplay to put some of the battleships and Mini-KB carriers back at Home Islands at the beginning of the game. It is very hard for Allies to stop early Palembang gambit if the Japanese player is serious about this, but with Mini-KB closing the sealanes on second-third day, they won't even really get to try.

[vettim89]

I wanted to chime in here and commend both players. I also wanted to add a note to support Yubari's decision to surrender. This mod is an AFB worse night mare from the get go. So to lose such an overwhelming battle at this point in the war is a far greater defeat than a similar result in Scenario 1 or even 2.

I hate to put words into John 3's mouth but I think the desired goal of the mod was to make the fun part of the game last longer. Giving the Japanese some advantages early in the war and especially mid war should change the nature of the game.

My only criticism for Yubari may be that your thinking was constructed around Scenario 1 OOB and force limitations. I understand the desire to do something but I have to wonder if you acted too soon and too boldly. This type of operation would have been a good idea in a non-Enhanced Japan scenario but probably was out of place here.

If I were to ever do a scenario, my goal would also be to extend the fun part of the game but I think I would focus more on reducing Allied capabilities rather than enhancing Japan's. Still I do like the idea of a game where late 1943 and early 1944 plays more like late 1942 and early 1943 does in most Scenario 1 games

[bigred]

One turn into Yubari's game.

1. 2/3rds of fleet Air wing landed at Columbo.
2. Columbo safe from invasion.
3. Andaman islands are in a strong position.
4. India should still be safe from any amphibious attack.
5. No rules game will allow Kwangtung arm to go on the move--probably burma.
6. Sopac has been neglected, but in a good position for advance under allied LBA.
7. High probablility of Pearl attack increases w/ the Bay of Bengal loss.
8. No rules game puts DEI and India (from a Burma attack) at risk early.
9. FatR has withdrawn the KB. Before this turn he offered a 10 day cease fire. I refused.

From a pure gaming view I wanted to see what I could do w/ a difficult situation going into 45.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: vettim89

I wanted to chime in here and commend both players. I also wanted to add a note to support Yubari's decision to surrender. This mod is an AFB worse night mare from the get go. So to lose such an overwhelming battle at this point in the war is a far greater defeat than a similar result in Scenario 1 or even 2.

I hate to put words into John 3's mouth but I think the desired goal of the mod was to make the fun part of the game last longer. Giving the Japanese some advantages early in the war and especially mid war should change the nature of the game.

My only criticism for Yubari may be that your thinking was constructed around Scenario 1 OOB and force limitations. I understand the desire to do something but I have to wonder if you acted too soon and too boldly. This type of operation would have been a good idea in a non-Enhanced Japan scenario but probably was out of place here.

If I were to ever do a scenario, my goal would also be to extend the fun part of the game but I think I would focus more on reducing Allied capabilities rather than enhancing Japan's. Still I do like the idea of a game where late 1943 and early 1944 plays more like late 1942 and early 1943 does in most Scenario 1 games

That is well said Vettim.

[vicberg]

I started scen 70 with another and unfortunately, we both had to stop.  I can say that scen 70 is not more powerful for the japs than scen 2.  The initial force dispositions in scen 70 are smart and not overwhelming. 
 
I'm in a scen 1 (da big babes, so scen 1 - minus) and a scen 2.  Scen 2 bumps more things than I believe people realize.  In scen 2, there's a number of classes of jap DDs that start at asw level 4.  In scen 1, these start at ASW 2 or 0!  In other words, they pretty much doubled japanese ASW capabilitites early war.   
 
In addition, with scen 2, there's a bunch more troops, garrisons for china, higher qualitiy leaders (land, air and sea), higher quality troops, and of course higher quality pilots.  The pilots are the biggest difference.  In my scen 2 PBEM, I didn't feel like wasting tracom quality pilots on inexperienced allies.  I have 400+ pilots now in tracom and growing.  My base for replacements is 42 for navy and 34 for army.  In my da big babes, it's 30 and 20 and I have maybe 10 tracom pilots right now.  In my scen 2, there's another 300 70 exp quality pilots, and growing.  I'm not bothering to pull out the 60s or 50s yet.  Why waste time...plenty of reserves. 
 
And let's not forget the economy.  Scen 2 doesn't even think about checking resources, etc, for at least a few months.  There's about double of everything.  In my scen 1 (da babes), I'm chewing my nails every turn already.
 
IMO, there's not comparison.  Scen 2 is the japanese dream.  Scen 70 gives some more air and carrier capabilitites, which is nice mid to late game, but the george or nick can make up for zero limitations at that time.  Extending fun is scen 2 for the japs. 

[yubari]

To try to answer the questions.

John 3.
1. That is probably a good thing.

2. I might be tempted to either move one or two of the small carriers back to Nagasaki, or as an alternative leave one or two of them with Claudes instead of Zeroes. With that arrangement the Japanese would probably still be able to force an early Mersing, and maybe even an ultra-early Palembang but it would make it a much more risky affair. Starting all of the battleships at the front is very interesting.

3. No real difference noticed.

4. I was playing with the earliest version which didn`t have those convoys. If those units existed then I would probably put all of the troops a long way backwards, probably on Pago Pago, Port Moresby is a death trap even in scenario 1. The theoretical Lexington TF could get up to mischief in the DEI if used well, possibly threatening a reduced mini KB.

5. [X(] I guess that that wasn`t in the version I was using, doing that would be a no-brainer. If that is to be an option then it should be restricted to a maximum of 1 or 2 CVEs.

I agree with you Vettim, this is a great mod and giving the Japanese at least equality into late 1943 is a great challenge.

Well, FatR has sent me the Japanese password so I shall finally be able to see what is going on in the Japanese side. Bigred is welcome to take over the AAR if he wants.

[John 3rd]

Thanks for the comments guys. Anything else you can come up with would be great.

It is ALLLLL about feedback.

[FatR]

As the game is starting to continue I'm withdrawing from this AAR. Even resisted the temptation of reading it carefully to check real Allied losses earlier in the war[:)].

Before I do, though, I want to say to Bigred, that he really should take note of what my previous esteemed opponent did related to air war and ASW war/convoy routing. These are areas, where Japanese force got outmaneuvered most often so far (in fact, the air war in this game was the hardest and most frustrating for Japanese I've experienced).
Also (I spotted your notes while scrolling down), remember, that Kwantung Army cannot get to Burma without opening a land road through China. I can move them across the borders now, but I still must unrestrict any units I want to load on ships.

I also want to note that I bear no ill will against Yubari for his decision to quit. The game, above all, should not be a chore.

[BBfanboy]

Just wanted to thank Yubari for an excellent scenario that had me wondering which way the knife would fall. [X(]
I think you had a large dose of bad luck at the end and should not feel all of it was due to your error in judgement.

I cannot disagree with your decision not to continue - it would be a long hard grind before you could feel the rush of being in control again and if you do not have the time and stubborness to play the game into 1946 then withdrawing is the correct decision for you.

I hope you will post another AAR in the near future so we can see what new strategies you come up with! Thanks again!

[bigred]

Stats from the game. Not to sure it is appropriate to take over someone's AAR. Seems half of IJ air losses is from ops. My other game experience indicates jap pilot loss runs about 1/3 of total frame losses.