Generals getting killed

[turska]

Just started to wonder what are the odds for corps/army commanders to get killed as i seem to lose plenty of generals. Im in turn 18 and i think i have lost 8 or 9 generals so far.

Last turn Von Kluge got killed while being army commander and some 5-6 hex'es away from the enemy zones. Plus those zones were some empty corners of the almost cleared pocket wich havent had turned to me yet.

This turn i lost Von Thoma while commanding a panzer corps.

[Banzan]

It seems to be a bit strange sometimes. I already stopped a game where i lost 2-3 commanders each round from turn one onward. Most of them died in save areas (lost 3 commanders in AGN and AGC in the first 2 turns, with all of them at starting point and not moved at all).
I don't really belive in "bad luck" anymore as it seems to be borked once started - you lose serveral commanders in one turn, great chance to lose serveral commanders every turn from now onward.

So, i guess there is a bug, but i guess it will be very hard to track down.

[turska]

Okay and now one turn forward and one German infantry corps commander is dead and one Rumanian general is dead.

<edit>
Also checked location for both hq's and they werent in front line. Friendly unit beetween the hq and the enemy.

[Joel Billings]

I don't think it's a bug, it just may be that the percent chance of getting killed based on distance to the enemy may be too high and will need adjusting downward.

[karonagames]

Joel has noted this issue in the development forums, so it is being looked at. It is the same on both sides.

[MengJiao]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Joel has noted this issue in the development forums, so it is being looked at. It is the same on both sides.

Can you add some code that keeps Vatutin alive more often?

[karonagames]

As long as I can have Manstein![:)]

[MengJiao]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

As long as I can have Manstein![:)]

Did he get shot? Or run over?

[joey]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I don't think it's a bug, it just may be that the percent chance of getting killed based on distance to the enemy may be too high and will need adjusting downward.

I agree. I doubt the death rate of leaders was statistically anywhere near as high as the game protrays. I do think it needs tweeking down by a reasonable factor - perhaps by a factor of 5 or 10.

[paullus99]

I read somewhere that the Germans lost, on average, a general a week during the war - commanding troops at all levels seemed to have been extremely hazardous to their health.

[ComradeP]

The proximity to the front resulting in leader death feature was recently added and is at least theoretically based on the real number of deaths (I know because I posted those). However, I have no idea how the proximity check formula works in practice. It seems results can vary extremely wildly.

Keep in mind that the game doesn't include divisional commanders, so solely higher ranking general officers are included.

Previously, leader casualties were much too low as they could essentially only die through displacements or in battle.

[Grouchy]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

I read somewhere that the Germans lost, on average, a general a week during the war - commanding troops at all levels seemed to have been extremely hazardous to their health.

From the internet:

# Germany lost 136 Generals, which averages out to be 1 dead General every 2 weeks
# Germany lost 110 Division Commanders in combat
# Air attacks caused 1/3 of German Generals' deaths
# 84 German Generals were executed by Hitler

[joey]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

I read somewhere that the Germans lost, on average, a general a week during the war - commanding troops at all levels seemed to have been extremely hazardous to their health.

I read that also, but I wonder if the facts bear this out. Many low level divisional commanders did die, but few generals of higher commands did. They were too far from the front. Somethings you cannot take things at face value.

[joey]

ORIGINAL: Grouchy

ORIGINAL: paullus99

I read somewhere that the Germans lost, on average, a general a week during the war - commanding troops at all levels seemed to have been extremely hazardous to their health.

From the internet:

# Germany lost 136 Generals, which averages out to be 1 dead General every 2 weeks
# Germany lost 110 Division Commanders in combat
# Air attacks caused 1/3 of German Generals' deaths
# 84 German Generals were executed by Hitler

Based on these numbers, it appears then that the death ratio is statistically set 4 to 8 times too high.

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: Grouchy


From the internet:

# Germany lost 136 Generals, which averages out to be 1 dead General every 2 weeks
# Germany lost 110 Division Commanders in combat
# Air attacks caused 1/3 of German Generals' deaths
# 84 German Generals were executed by Hitler

Lately i've seen alot of dead generals too. If above is correct only 26 corps+ commanders died assuming they all be generals. Ofc this is only combat deaths, but non the less. For example some was captured that wouldnt be included in the above figurs.
I'd say i at leased have 15 if not 20 killed by end of first winter. Including axis allied tho.
So it does seem the latest tweeks might have gone a bit overboard.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[ComradeP]

Based on these numbers, it appears then that the death ratio is statistically set 4 to 8 times too high.

The problem is that it isn't "set". It can vary widely. My leader losses have never been as high as those reported by some of the people here.

I believe the chance a leader dies when he has to make a proximity to the front check is simply 100 divided by the distance in hexes, which would lead to a rather high chance of death most of the time. As said I have no idea what makes the actual check happen/what determines whether a leader will be checked.

[amatteucci]

Hmmm... didn't got many leaders killed.
Mainly generals shot for "incompetence" (but Pavlov always managed to survive) and some commander lost because of enemy action (i.e. HQ forced relocation after being in contact with enemy units).

So I'm amazed at the leaders loss rates some players get. BTW, I presume that German leaders should have a bonus against ending up being executed, or if they do, they should be based on a random basis (maybe after 20 June 1944) since, IIRC, many were shot for conspiracy and treason but no one because of incompetence on the field.

[Klydon]

It does seem Generals are getting wacked at a pretty high rate.

One note on tying this to where the HQ is at. Especially in the case of many German commanders, they are almost never at the HQ except first thing in the mourning and late in the evening overnight. Other than that, they are typically out among the troops where they think the critical spots are to get a first hand look. I have seen books comment on how Rommel had a knack of being right where the action was at and able to often rally his troops and/or personally direct the battle. Guderian led from the front in France (no reason to think he didn't do the same thing in Russia). V Manstien's book talks about being out among the lower commands, even when he was commander of 11th Army.

Something probably just needs to be tweaked a bit.

[Joel Billings]

Captured have to be considered the same as KIA for game purposes. I would really like to see numbers on corps and above leaders killed/captured or incapacitated during the war. I agree it is too much at the moment, just trying to figure out by how much.

[Anonymous]

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