SU - Arty

[glvaca]

Hey guys,

In my bid for Leningrad in the GC, I've tried to maximize the offensive capabilities of I & II Corps by consolidating the best infantry divisions in those 2 Corps. Subsequently, I attached 3 SU to all 8 infantry divisions in the 2 Corps (I & II)
In addition, I have several more ground SU attached to the 2 Corps, together with plenty of the heavy arty I have found. I've assigned pretty good leaders to both Corps (mostly 7 or 8's) Here's what I see, of the 10+ arty available to the each Corps, seldom more than 1 is included in the list of supporting SU in an attack. Corps are within 5 hexes, often within 1-2 hexes of the combat. The question: how come? Is there a limit on how much arty can support one attack? I see this both in Hasty and normal attacks although I have performed many more hasties than normal.

Any clue? Thanks!
Cheers,
Glenn

As a side note: High morale infantry ROCKS!
Note 2: SU re-attachment, use OKH (like the Sovs use Stavka) as a intermediary step and move the HQ where you need it if the HQ you want to send it too is not in the list. Everything you don't want attached (ie the reserve) leave at OKH. this works very well for me.

[ComradeP]

For every support unit that's committed from a HQ, there's a reduced chance more will be committed, so you might be failing the rolls for additional support units.

Artillery in HQ's is where you really feel like being handicapped as the Axis: you're using battalions, so you get about 12 guns for one support "slot" and the Soviets get 36 to 48 as they're using regiments.

The problem can be pretty bad. For instance, during testing attacks on Sevastopol only 2 artillery units were committed out of the huge amount that was available, so it's difficult for the Axis to concentrate artillery. There's 0 chance you can concentrate the historical amount of artillery at Sevastopol and expect the historical result, as most of the artillery won't do anything as they'll never be committed. The developers are aware of this, but I'm not sure about the status of any changes/solution to the issue.

That's also one of the reasons why I intend to disband the Axis medium artillery battalions: mimimal value, and they can take up a support "slot" in a battle that could also be used by a better unit.

[glvaca]

Thanks for the clarification ComradeP.
I hope they fix this soon. Not a game breaker but slightly dissapointing.
I'm not sure I follow the rationale of not being ably to attach arty SU's to divisions. There are plenty of occassions when this was done historically.

Cheers,
Glenn

[ComradeP]

Given that the Axis are using battalions, you could indeed say it might be preferable if the Axis could attach artillery to divisions. That would make their artillery much more useful. Although it has been talked about often, I'll suggest it again on the tester forum.

[glvaca]

Great!
Thanks!

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Given that the Axis are using battalions, you could indeed say it might be preferable if the Axis could attach artillery to divisions. That would make their artillery much more useful. Although it has been talked about often, I'll suggest it again on the tester forum.

So they cannot? Only AA? I've not tried really as I'm still learning, but my first thought upon reading your prior post was "why not put the artillery in the divisions?".

I could almost swear I remember seeing SPA in Pz divisions, but I could be wrong.

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: Mynok

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Given that the Axis are using battalions, you could indeed say it might be preferable if the Axis could attach artillery to divisions. That would make their artillery much more useful. Although it has been talked about often, I'll suggest it again on the tester forum.

So they cannot? Only AA? I've not tried really as I'm still learning, but my first thought upon reading your prior post was "why not put the artillery in the divisions?".

I could almost swear I remember seeing SPA in Pz divisions, but I could be wrong.

Well as you know, you can attach up to 3 SU's which represent specialized ground units. That's cool. Some type of AAA, others not. They also seem to be stuck at Corps or higher. then ther's arty, only corps or higher. So no direct attach to Divs.
SP Arty is definitely in Pz Divs., well should be, haven't checked in game. But that's the organic arty, not Corps assets. I'll have to look it up but if memory serves Corps Arty was attached to the divisions with the most heavy fighting and was not kept at Corps level. Command & control was critical, and adding an extra level of command did not improve effectiveness.

I can accept that this may have been done as a game balancing mechanism but that's way to early for me to comment on. If not, then it is a strange decision. Or maybe it was done to keep a balanced Corps composition? I have been pillaging other HQ's to mass 10+ batteries in a few curcial Corps.

[ComradeP]

I could almost swear I remember seeing SPA in Pz divisions, but I could be wrong.

You might be referring to the sIG33-on-tracks units, but those are assault weapons and not regular artillery.

[James Ward]

There was definately divisional artillery for both side.

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

I could almost swear I remember seeing SPA in Pz divisions, but I could be wrong.

You might be referring to the sIG33-on-tracks units, but those are assault weapons and not regular artillery.

Could very well be, especially if they are listed as SPA type. Or maybe I'm remembering organic SPA that occurs there.

[ComradeP]

There was definately divisional artillery for both side.

There is, but in standard TOE's. I'm purely talking about support units.

Mynok: the Germans gets Hummels and Wespes in the TOE's, but I believe the only artillery you can add would be StuGs and the sIG33 on tracks units, as they're assault guns.

[FredSanford3]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Given that the Axis are using battalions, you could indeed say it might be preferable if the Axis could attach artillery to divisions. That would make their artillery much more useful. Although it has been talked about often, I'll suggest it again on the tester forum.

Didn't the Germans also group their corps/army artillery into Arkos (Artillery Kommandos) and Harkos (Heer Artillery Kommandos)? I think that's what they were called. These were regt/bde-level HQ's that controlled groups of nominally independent artillery battalions and batteries to support the manuever elements. Couldn't you use these in the scenario editor to gather the arty battalions, and thus allow the Germans to mimic the Soviet ability to support divisions with multiple battalions? Trouble is, they didn't have formal TOE's, they just grouped whatever arty assets a corps/army may have had.

[ComradeP]

If the Axis can attach artillery battalions to divisions, those temporary artillery commands/groupings would be modelled by the fact that you would decide what kind of artillery to group in a division.

Currently, it feels a bit odd that we can attach what comes down to a pionier or Panzer regiment (3 battalions of each) to a division but no artillery. I understand why we can't attach regiments, and I'm fine with that, but battalions are a different matter in my opinion.

[MechFO]

I agree. Like in many other cases the Germans task organized artillery. Having synthetic Art "Regiments" or Art Kdo's would model this, though by nature their size and composition would vary in reality. Otherwise attaching Art Abt directly to Divisions would be the alternative solution. The fact that the Germans are unable to support Divisions with more than 1 or 2 Art Abt is a bit of a joke, especially in mid war when the ability to concentrate becomes vital.