Refit Questions

[Q-Ball]

1. How do you set Refit % at the Army Group Level? Couldn't find it in the manual, and I understand you can specify a %.

2. For WITHDRAWING units, it has to be at 75% of TOE to withdraw, I get that. But is that 75% for every element, or just 75% overall? And when you set a unit to "75%", that commands it to get every element to 75%, not just the whole unit, correct?

Often, post-winter German Infantry has 30% Rifles, but nearly 100% of heavy equipment, which will show a higher TOE.

[gradenko2k]

First off, we have a little confusion in terms: "Refit %" does not actually exist. Either a unit is in refit mode, or it isn't.

Refit mode means it gets priority on all replacements, but on the same relative priority as all other units under refit.

What you're looking for is Max TOE. You can set this by right-clicking on the unit's right-hand side details, then clicking the MAX 100 entry in the unit details (just above the Morale).

Or, you can set Max TOE (and other settings) in bulk, as below:

===

If you go to the Commander's Report, there's a bar labeled "___ Functions___"

This bar has three options:
1. Refit / Reserve - Set all displayed units to either Ready, Refit, Reserve
2. MAX TOE % - Set the Max TOE of all displayed units to the specified percentage
3. Support Level - Set the support level of all displayed units to the specified priority

You can then use the "UNIT DISPLAY FILTERS" at the bottom of the Commander's Report to drill down who is displayed.

A quick example would be to click the Combat Ready filter to "UnReady", then use the _Functions_ bar to set all of those units to Refit status.
Another example would be to click the Unit Formation Type Filters to "Inf" to select only all infantry units, then use the _Functions_ bar to set all of their Max TOEs to 75%

===

For your second question, I'm not so sure, although I believe it uses overall TOE to determine withdrawals.

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000
If you go to the Commander's Report, there's a bar labeled "___ Functions___"

This bar has three options:
1. Refit / Reserve - Set all displayed units to either Ready, Refit, Reserve
2. MAX TOE % - Set the Max TOE of all displayed units to the specified percentage
3. Support Level - Set the support level of all displayed units to the specified priority

You can then use the "UNIT DISPLAY FILTERS" at the bottom of the Commander's Report to drill down who is displayed.

A quick example would be to click the Combat Ready filter to "UnReady", then use the _Functions_ bar to set all of those units to Refit status.
Another example would be to click the Unit Formation Type Filters to "Inf" to select only all infantry units, then use the _Functions_ bar to set all of their Max TOEs to 75%

===

For your second question, I'm not so sure, although I believe it uses overall TOE to determine withdrawals.

I either didn't notice this feature or I have forgotten about it [:D]
Thanks for the info [;)]

[Q-Ball]

I thought of this, because for the Summer of 1942, the Germans probably want to fiddle with their refits, because there isn't enough stuff to go around for everyone to get to 100%.

Defensive Groups should be set to 50-60% or so, maybe?[&:] I still don't know what that means though; if they are already at 60% overall, but Rifle strength is only 30%, does that mean they will not take replacements? OR, will they fill-out the Rifle Squads to 60%, and stop? This is critical, because post-winter German Infantry Divisions (at least mine), really need Rifles, but not much else.

Offensive Groups should be at 100%, including most Panzers. Looking at the numbers though, there are definitely not enough tanks to get all the Panzer Regts to 100% TOE by June, so you have to decide if they will be evenly spread, or stuffed into a spearhead.

If the Summer Offensive is in the South, all Infantry Divisions, though, in 6th, 17th, and 11th Armies should be set to 100%.

[karonagames]

I thought of this, because for the Summer of 1942, the Germans probably want to fiddle with their refits,

The second the Blizzard is over, I switch AGN to 50%(pretty much what was done historically), and then adjust the other AGs according to whether I am going for a Moscow or Oil option in 1942.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

I thought of this, because for the Summer of 1942, the Germans probably want to fiddle with their refits,

The second the Blizzard is over, I switch AGN to 50%(pretty much what was done historically), and then adjust the other AGs according to whether I am going for a Moscow or Oil option in 1942.

Thanks, good feedback!

Couple follow-on questions:

1. Does that mean UNITS are fixed at 50%, or just that every ELEMENT within the units are topped at 50%?

2. If you set AGN to 50%, can you then go back and override it within a sub-unit? For example, set AGN to 50%, but set a Panzer Division in AGN, afterward, to 100%. Will that change to the Panzers take, or will it keep getting overridden by the AGN 50% setting, until you take the Panzers out of AGN?

[karonagames]

Each element will be fixed at 50%.

Each unit' TOE% is set individually, higher HQs do not override the setting.

[janbak]

Could you explain more in details what are di effect/advantages of changing (reducing) the TOE % and what are the conditions in which do you generally do that?

For example ...

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak
The second the Blizzard is over, I switch AGN to 50%(pretty much what was done historically), and then adjust the other AGs according to whether I am going for a Moscow or Oil option in 1942.

why do you change the TOE % when the Blizzard is over?


Thx

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: janbak

Could you explain more in details what are di effect/advantages of changing (reducing) the TOE % and what are the conditions in which do you generally do that?

For example ...

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak
The second the Blizzard is over, I switch AGN to 50%(pretty much what was done historically), and then adjust the other AGs according to whether I am going for a Moscow or Oil option in 1942.

why do you change the TOE % when the Blizzard is over?


Thx

I think BigAnorak is talking about the units staying on the defensive. These should have a lower TOE percentage so your assault corps can buff up their numbers since there is not enough to go around for everyone.

[Zovs]

Essentially (from the manual light version page 248 or section 18.3)

All ground units in refit mode will have the first opportunity to receive replacements during the refit sub-segment. Refit mode allows the player to set up two groups of units, those that will receive replacements first, and those that will receive replacements only after those in the refit group have received as much as they can get given their distance from the nearest rail head.

Units in refit mode are normally the only units to receive upgraded equipment, unless the pool of older equipment runs out, at which point units without refit enabled would upgrade if there is newer equipment available.

All newly created and previously destroyed rebuilding units will appear on the map in refit mode. Units arriving as reinforcements will not be in refit mode.

[karonagames]

CarnageINC is correct, during the Blizzard, you need every warm body (literally) at the front, so I usually switch every front line unit to refit mode, but once the blizzard ends and the extra attrition stops you need to focus resources where they are needed, and as happened historically, you can only get one Army group up to reasonable condition for a 1942 offensive during the 13 weeks of mud from April to June.

Once you move to the defensive, you can even things out a bit, and then look to "buff up" sectors of the front where you see enemy buildups.

[janbak]

Thank you for yr replies

Now, please let me chack if I have understood weel

Refit mode is used to set set an higher priority for replacements/upgrades/supply/fuel

TOE % is used to reduce the capacity a unit at a level lower than 100%, in this way we reduce the request for replacements/upgrades/supply/fuel from the involved unit ... I mean that units I consider more critical will receive replacements/upgrades/supply/fuel faster

Am I right?

I've two addition questiona:
- when is it wiase to change the refit mode and the TOE%? AT the end or the beginning of each turn?
- what are the impact on CV of reducing the TOW %?

Finally, Is there a place where I can see the total availability of replacements/upgrades/supply/fuel and the need of each unit to decide how to distribute my total pool of replacements/upgrades/supply/fuel?

Thx

[gradenko2k]

Refit mode is used to set set an higher priority for replacements/upgrades/supply/fuel

Only for replacements, but otherwise correct. Note that if you have a lot of units set to refit, the replacement assignment is still going to be diluted. Setting everything to refit is the same as setting everything to ready/non-refit.

TOE % is used to reduce the capacity a unit at a level lower than 100%, in this way we reduce the request for replacements/upgrades/supply/fuel from the involved unit ... I mean that units I consider more critical will receive replacements/upgrades/supply/fuel faster

Again, only for replacements, but also mostly correct.

However, setting TOE to lower levels only really speeds up the replacement of everyone else if those lower-TOE units are already at the desired Max TOE. If not, they'll still demand replacements and still dilute your replacement pool.

For example, if you have 5 units, all at 50% TOE and all at non-refit (or all at refit), and their max TOE is all set to 100%, setting the first unit to 75% max TOE will NOT cause the other 4 units to gain replacements ahead of the first unit until the first reaches its own 75% max.

- when is it wiase to change the refit mode and the TOE%? AT the end or the beginning of each turn?

As long as you make your changes before ending your turn, you should be ok. I expect most of us would have our own styles, although logically it should be one of the last things you would do, after examining which forces have been depleted by recent attacks, etc. etc.

- what are the impact on CV of reducing the TOW %?

I would expect that lower TOW units will have lower CV, but I wouldn't know the exact workings.

Finally, Is there a place where I can see the total availability of replacements/upgrades/supply/fuel and the need of each unit to decide how to distribute my total pool of replacements/upgrades/supply/fuel?

I haven't tried sussing this out for myself yet, but the Production screen should give you an idea of what you're producing and how many replacements you can support

[CarnageINC]

I've recently thought of a new refit question.  If units that have 'refit' recieve priority for replacements, does this mean that the rest of the Army recieves nothing until all the refits have met their needs?  Or is there a percentage based system, the majority go to 'refits' the rest to 'ready' forces?

[karonagames]

Or is there a percentage based system, the majority go to 'refits' the rest to 'ready' forces?

It is a percentage system, but I don't think I have seen the precise numbers quoted anywhere in the manual or the development forums. When looking at the logistics reports, I can't see a definite pattern, as the number of men available to return to the front depends on the numbers being "damaged" in the previous turns.

As a very rough rule of thumb, an axis infantry division in the front line in ready state will get about a company (100-120) men back each turn, in refit it will get 2-3x that depending on the total number of units in refit. If the unit is sitting on a rail head, away from the front line in refit mode, it can get back to full strength in 2 weeks, sometimes a week, if the number of re-fitting units is low.

I don't have any numbers for the SU.

[heliodorus04]

The manual says something (loosely paraphrasing) about units in Refit mode drawing replacements before all non-refit units 'up to their capacity based on distance to railhead/HQ.

So yes, no one gets anything until the refit units get "All they can" that turn.

Utter newb here, but that's what the manual says.  Don't ask me to find what page, LOL!  I'm still learning my way around it.

[gradenko2k]

I've recently thought of a new refit question.  If units that have 'refit' recieve priority for replacements, does this mean that the rest of the Army recieves nothing until all the refits have met their needs?  Or is there a percentage based system, the majority go to 'refits' the rest to 'ready' forces?

As heliodorus said, the amount of replacements a unit will draw is limited by its railhead / HQ capacity.

This means that if you have 5 units on refit, and 5 units on ready, and your replacement rate is only enough to sustain your 5 refit units, your ready MIGHT still get replacements if the refit units are too far out to draw as much as they want to or need.

Otherwise, yes, this does mean that your ready units will not get anything, if you set enough units to refit.

[usecase]

Do 'Shift-E' and you can see the two phases clearly. Here's an example -as you'll see, it's slim pickings for the non-refit boys:

Logistic Phase Event Log
_____________________________________________________________________

21 Partisan squads recruited from the countryside
1 Partisan cadres formed in the countryside

14100K Soviet population has migrated

__________________________________________
REFIT REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
15452 men were returned to Soviet Union's manpower pool
181735 men are added to Soviet Union's front line units
67 support elements were converted to infantry squads
42 damaged AFVs were returned to the pool
13 damaged AFVs were not repairable
__________________________________________
NORMAL REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
6283 men were returned to Soviet Union's manpower pool
33668 men are added to Soviet Union's front line units
173 support elements were converted to infantry squads
57 damaged AFVs were returned to the pool
18 damaged AFVs were not repairable

[randallw]

A side feature of refit mode is that it may help increase morale of a unit under 50.