Designing a new game

danscan · Post by **danscan** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:07 pm

I have programming experience. Albeit all business applications. I have made my own board games and I have worked out logic flow charts for various things including A.I.

So where do we begin and what is the concept. Email me at Danscan@danscan.net.

What is the scope of the A.I. path finding to descion making.

See my post in this forum for my Idea on a game. Basicly a Global war game. If we build the A.I in segments so that one person can make the high up A.I. president and one A.I. (like TOAOW) could control the generals. The top A.I. could make descion based on the big picture and then when small pictures come in to play(battles) the lower A.I. would conduct the battle.

Four Battles per Month Global turn. Each battle would be fought in half day turns for a total of 14 turns. At the end of the 14th turn the A.I. would declare a winner based on total hexes controlled or important hexes. At the end of a week turn the Winner can choose to advance to the next hex or counterattack. A maximum of four Global hexes can be caputred in each month. Global hexes can have control split between them. control of the hex will be a percentage then when another battle erupts for that GHex(global hex) the layout of battle will be determined based on the percentage of ground caputred before(85% 15%)

Ok its still a work in progress.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:11 pm

LOL - To be honest its taken pretty much from the Mil-Std for software design!

I was being a bit sarcastic - hoping someone like you would point this out! Basically saying that the problem is not following a formalized process (whether one for business software or a military simulator). They want to immediately write "game rules" rather than design an appropriately bounded framwork within which a game develops.

A small group with one programmer can get away with "seat of your pants" software development to some extent (CMM level 1 "heroics" if you believe teh capability maturity model) but a an "open source" project by definition involves many folks, and so the process for development is the key to being able to get anything done.

VictorH · Post by **VictorH** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 5:43 am

I need to see some code to figure out how to do this.

Duane · Post by **Duane** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 6:15 am

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
The key to a successful "open source" development project is to create 3 "reference design documents" before the first line of code is written.

The Interface design document describes how you wat the player to interact with the game, what controls the player uses to do that and what information will be presented where in what situations.

The Data Dictionary defines teh data structures that are used to represent the entities that exist in the game and environmental factors that affect them. Every "number' the game uses should be defined here.

The Software design document is the "rules" for the game, or the way in which the data elements in the data dictionary interact with each other.

These three documents ensure that everybody contributing to the game understands the "design intent" for the game. ALl teh "open source" efforts I have seen to date very rapidly become excercises in making the game "all things to all people" this dooms teh project form the start.

A good year (or more) devoted to the group development (and most importantly agreement on) the contents of those three docs should be done before any body starts to code anything. Its like painting a house, the prep work is the hard part and takes much longer than applying the paint, but makes the difference between a good and terrible result.

I've yet to see an "open source" group put the necessary prep work in. That is why all to date have yet to yield a product.

In my "real life", I design clinical interface applications so I do know the work required in designing, planning and bringing a project to conclusion. We don't do it quite the same way but the steps listed above make sence. OK, I will get to work on some prelims.

VictorH · Post by **VictorH** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 7:37 am

Originally posted by Duane:

In my "real life", I design clinical interface applications so I do know the work required in designing, planning and bringing a project to conclusion. We don't do it quite the same way but the steps listed above make sence. OK, I will get to work on some prelims.

Keep me in the loop, I will help review and add to whatever you come up with.

Jeffery · Post by **Jeffery** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:47 pm

What we need first before anything else is someone skilled in software project management. I agree that with large scale software development the coordination becomes more important than the actual coding.

So why don't we first see if we can work out a framework from which to develop a game (sort of like making the team before making the game) before we start doing concepts. Have a structure organized so we know what resources we have and who can do what. This way no matter what final concept we decide to work on, the project won't get bogged down in disorganization.

Duane · Post by **Duane** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:11 pm

Originally posted by Jeffery:
What we need first before anything else is someone skilled in software project management. I agree that with large scale software development the coordination becomes more important than the actual coding.

So why don't we first see if we can work out a framework from which to develop a game (sort of like making the team before making the game) before we start doing concepts. Have a structure organized so we know what resources we have and who can do what. This way no matter what final concept we decide to work on, the project won't get bogged down in disorganization.

I agree with Jeff's statements. I had no idea that I would get more than one person really interested. I will start...other than myself, let's first see who is interested in actively participating. Please replay here and I will generate a list. PLease include all contact info and skills/experience, etc.

VictorH · Post by **VictorH** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 1:42 am

Originally posted by Duane:

I agree with Jeff's statements. I had no idea that I would get more than one person really interested. I will start...other than myself, let's first see who is interested in actively participating. Please replay here and I will generate a list. PLease include all contact info and skills/experience, etc.

I have sent you an email with the above information.

<img src="cool.gif" border="0">

Sgt Wilson · Post by **Sgt Wilson** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 2:15 am

Hi

Jeffery is this what you mean when you refer to rotating\scrolling 2d graphics ?

(borrowed from Eastern Front II)

Or the way Close Combat does it, by physicly rotating a single 2D image?

Victor, tile based game interfaces are pretty straight forward. IMHO go for books on C++ & DirectX.

Add my name to the petition for an additional forum.

[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Sgt Wilson ]</p>

VictorH · Post by **VictorH** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:46 am

Originally posted by Sgt Wilson:
Hi

Jeffery is this what you mean when you refer to rotating\scrolling 2d graphics ?

(borrowed from Eastern Front II)

Or the way Close Combat does it, by physicly rotating a single 2D image?

Victor, tile based game interfaces are pretty straight forward. IMHO go for books on C++ & DirectX.

Add my name to the petition for an additional forum.

[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Sgt Wilson ]

Hi,

Are pallets available for different terrain types and unit counter types? If so where?

Jeffery · Post by **Jeffery** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 7:09 am

no I mean more what they did in Alpha Centauri. They had several images from different angles and used software to rotate a stiched together composite to make it look like it's rotating.

I'll join in a week or so. I'm very busy curently

danscan · Post by **danscan** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 8:58 pm

I have made board games (personal use)and I currently program for a living. i pretty good with sketching out concepts and flow charts. I am really good with VB so I don't know how much programming use I can be if you end up doing this in C++.

Sgt Wilson · Post by **Sgt Wilson** » Fri Nov 02, 2001 12:33 am

Hi,

Jeffery, they sound a bit like QuickTime VR objects?

QuickTime Development Resources - Tools

Victor, if you have Eastern Front II all the graphics are in bmp format.

I don't know if there is any copyright free game clipart, but to get a non-comercial demo up and running. You could always beg, borrow or steal from exsiting sources ?

Danscan, there are plenty of ways to share code. Dll's and intel obj's e.t.c

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Nov 04, 2001 6:50 pm

I just came across this thread. This is a great idea. I have experience in programming and project management. I too have thought about developing games, but came up against the fact that 1 person has many BIG problems. I would like to help if possible.

VictorH · Post by **VictorH** » Sun Nov 04, 2001 9:55 pm

I'm waiting to hear back from Duane. All of us should send him an email with our skills.

Duane · Post by **Duane** » Sun Nov 04, 2001 11:17 pm

Originally posted by VictorH:
I'm waiting to hear back from Duane. All of us should send him an email with our skills.

Victor,

Yes, I received your mail. I have been waiting to hear from others who are interested. I will give us one more week (11-9-01) and will then post the names I have received here. I will then email a contact list to everyone on the list so we can start discussing the next step.
I look forward to hearing from everyone.

By the way, if any of you are the least bit interested, let me know. As time goes on and we start working out the structure of the team workng together we will all know better what kind of time and effort will be required. If you do not feel that you can participate then (I will provide a "last call" opportunity, then that's the time to say.

Duane

axrael · Post by **axrael** » Mon Nov 05, 2001 12:04 am

Try using Network54 for a free forum:

www.Network54.com

challenge · Post by **challenge** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:31 am

The two lists posted by Paul and Ludovic are excellent, but before you start setting up the standards and conventions needed to keep an open source development project uniform, you still need a game concept.

The preliminary concept staement does not need to be drastically detailed, but if you don't know what you're trying to build, you won't know what parts you need. To refer to Duane's earlier statement of not needing to be a mechanic to design a car: if you think you're building a race car, and someone else thinks you're building a railway car, the wheels ain't gonna fit.

One the primary tools of game design is the concept statement. When planning a source book for an existing RPG, for example, the game company I worked for required an outline of intended material, how the material and information would be integrated into the existing game, and a sample chapter so editors could get a feel for the presentation of the material.

the same, modified for the medium, is probably a useful tool for the open source format.

Jeffery · Post by **Jeffery** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 6:34 am

Duane, just sent you an email.

Duane · Post by **Duane** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 8:16 am

Jeffrey has a good point. At this time, however, we are trying to see who is interested in even working on a project. I have a game design I will submit myself and I hope others who are interested do the same. We can then, as a team decide on the chosen game concept. But I want to wait until we hear from the interested parties first and move from there.

Duane