The siege at Leningrad... any advice?

[*Lava*]

Hey...

So as the Axis player I have gone hell for leather in an attempt to get to Leningrad as fast as possible and take it by direct assault. It has been tough.

Now I am about to occupy Kolpino and that will leave me with two hex stacks facing off against one Soviet stack in Leningrad itself. I realize that I have cut off land supply to Leningrad and that Soviet supply to the city has to come in by port at Pavlovo and then be trucked in. So I would expect a far reduced flow of supplies into the area.

Nevertheless, while taking down level 4 forts with 3 hexes worth of troops has been quite a battle, I know that assaulting a level 5 fort with 2 is going to be even tougher, possibly impossible. I have also transfered loads of pioneers regiments to my forces there to help with the siege.

So... as I prepare to occupy Kolpino, can anybody give me some advice as how to proceed with this attack?

Should it be an infantry only assault? 18th army still needs a bunch of support troops which I can ship in but will eat up a turn.

Should I wait a turn or two? I could get all my stuff in place and use a HQ buildup to make sure my assaulters are fully ready.

Should I be trying to take Pavlovo first so I can get a 3 to 1 hex advantage on the city?

Any advice would certainly be welcome as I have never take Leningrad before and it looks like a tough nut to crack.

Here is a shot of the situation:

[*Lava*]

It is turn 15 BTW.. so not a lot of time before the mud sets in.

[heliodorus04]

I've not faced this situation, but here's my take:
Your odds are better of taking Leningrad by 2-hex attack than they are of forcing yourself across that river...

I don't know that the reduction in supply will be anywhere near as significant as you are hoping it will be.  I think they get pretty full service from the port supply.

If you're right about supply being reduced, then you should wait a turn or two to get your assaulters the proper support and reduced fatigue/increased supply.

Obviously, what does the war look like east of there?  Leningrad collapses once you get all 3 ports that can supply it over-water.  If you have a couple turns before mud, what can your armor do to get to Tikhvin and Lodeynoe Pole?  Always the better combination to pick the Leningrad lock...

[Klydon]

Hmm.. what version of the game are you guys playing? There should not be a level 4 entrenchment in the swamp at Shlisselburg if I remember correctly (max level 3 in swamps).

I think you have to secure the area better before you can think about taking Leningrad proper. The 3 stacks on the level 4 forts south of the Neva need to go. Even if you take the hex you propose, your attack on the city will be done at that point because I don't think there is any way you are attacking from 2 hexes across a major river into a urban hex and kicking the defenders out and taking that hex is not the one that gets the Finns in anyway.

I would get the Russians back east across the Volkov to secure your flank and set up to try to hit the clear hex (2 hex attack to the west of the urban area of Leningrad to get across the river and set up from there. You likely won't have time before mud to do all this, but if you can get a lot of the preliminary stuff done before mud, you will have the three turns during snow before the blizzard to work with as well.

One of the things I have tried to do with assaulting Leningrad in the past the hard way is to have two different assault groups to use. The first set tries the big attack (and usually fails) and I move them out and bring in fresh troops to try again. This keeps me from grinding my troops down too far in terms of losses, fatigue, and supplies, but does grind the defenders down with multiple attacks since the Russians typically don't have fresh troops to put in the hex on their turn. It is a lot of power tied up assaulting the city, but then it is a big prize to grab and the Russians are going to do everything they can to defend it.

[*Lava*]

Okay... I'm using version 1.02 I believe.

And now I understand that I need to approach Pavlovo from the hex just to the east so as to get a 3 to 1 hex set-up to isolate the rest of Leningrad.

EDIT: Do you think a 2 v 1 attack directly at Pavlovo would work, using the system of changing out forces and double attacking it in the same move???

Don't know if I can do it though, that is a lot of fighting with my forces biased a bit too far to the west. But now at least I think I understand how to "storm the city" by taking the two major ports.

Here is a pitifully bad illustration:

[*Lava*]

And here is a shot of the rest of the front.

That is a triple envelopment going on in the center/south... [;)]

[CharonJr]

Use infantry in city fights, armor will be worse there, but I have no idea how mech/mot units are handled, likey like armor.

[*Lava*]

ORIGINAL: CharonJr
Use infantry in city fights, armor will be worse there, but I have no idea how mech/mot units are handled, likey like armor.

I imagine they are almost as bad as tanks, but you get sucked into using them because the area commanders give out the battalions mostly to the armored corps. To get the pioneers to 18th Army elements I have to transfer them out of my armored corps first which costs me one turn and then to the infantry corps which will cost me another. DAMN!

Nevertheless, the more I have thought about it the more I believe I have errored by committing anything other than infantry into this fight and obviously not prepared properly beforehand for a fight I knew I was going to get into.

Thanks for confirming that belief.