Hi all.
Here are my first questions to the forum all coming from my play of 'Preparing the Way', in which I'm up to the third scenario, with one desicive (scen 1) and one squeaky marginal (scen 2) wins.
My first couple questions come based on the OOB I purchased, so I'll list it here:
1 US HQ, 1 recon platoon. (It started as 3 jeeps each with a recon team and is now 3 Greyhounds each with a Baz team), 1 sherman platoon, 1 ranger company, and 1 Wolverine platoon. I snuck in the Woverlines by deleting the 81mm ranger mortar, and I've been way glad I did!
Question 1: Why are ranger squads so small? That 6 man size can be quite harmful in close combat, though, I'd buy them again were I to replay the campaign. They've done great so far.
Question 2: Is it my imagination, or is the Woverine much better than the Sherman? My Sherman's have been marginal against German tanks, though awesome - as they should be - vs PSW series vehicles.
Now, question three may be more of a code one. In Scen 2, I took very high vehicle casualties, and as a result, bought more Woverines with support points. That would have brought me to 8, as I bought 2 as reinforcements in Scen 2. However, in Scen 3's deploy phase, it wouldn't let me delpoy them, and on turn 1 they were listed as 'destroyed' on my clipboard. Anyone know why? And/or how to fix?
Thanks all,
Alexandra.
My first questions
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
My first questions
"Tonight a dynasty is born." Ricky Proehl, then of the Saint Louis Rams. He was right! Go Pats! Winners of Super Bowls 36, 38 and 39.
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David F. Wall
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Waltham, MA, USA
My grasp on the history of this period doesn't extend down to some of the details of Ballistics and TOE, but I can make some inspired guesses (no doubt the real scholars on the forum will correct my errors).
Q1: I believe this is to correspond to the TOE for the Rangers as originally constituted under Darby. There's a book called The Spearheaders that goes into some detail on the formation of the Rangers (it's a memoir of one of the originals) but it's been some years since I read it. Rangers that get into stand-up fights with more typical infantry formations are mean to be at a disadvantage.
Q2: I don't think it's your imagination, and I think it has to do with the Wolverine's main gun being a much higher-velocity weapon than the 75 on most of the Sherman variants, despite it only having a bore 1mm bigger. It doesn't quite match the hot-knife-through-butter qualities of the German 88, but as has been observed elsewhere, the 88 was orginally designed to shoot 10000 feet straight up.
Q3: I think, from your description, that you may be slightly off in your perception of the role of support points.
The Wolverines you bought with the support points are augmentation, not replacement, for the core forces you bought at the beginning of the campaign. If you had Wolverines from your core force damaged or destroyed in the second scenario, the only way to get those guys running again is to fix them with the repair points awarded at the end of scenario two. Otherwise, HQ is prepared to drag those hulks all over North Africa for you, but it ain't prepared to fix 'em. That's the Army for you. As it stands, you'll have those Wolverines in support for scenario three, but they'll be gone beyond that.
The manual goes into these issues in some detail. I hope this clears at least the third question up for you. And welcome to the funhouse.
DFW
Q1: I believe this is to correspond to the TOE for the Rangers as originally constituted under Darby. There's a book called The Spearheaders that goes into some detail on the formation of the Rangers (it's a memoir of one of the originals) but it's been some years since I read it. Rangers that get into stand-up fights with more typical infantry formations are mean to be at a disadvantage.
Q2: I don't think it's your imagination, and I think it has to do with the Wolverine's main gun being a much higher-velocity weapon than the 75 on most of the Sherman variants, despite it only having a bore 1mm bigger. It doesn't quite match the hot-knife-through-butter qualities of the German 88, but as has been observed elsewhere, the 88 was orginally designed to shoot 10000 feet straight up.
Q3: I think, from your description, that you may be slightly off in your perception of the role of support points.
The Wolverines you bought with the support points are augmentation, not replacement, for the core forces you bought at the beginning of the campaign. If you had Wolverines from your core force damaged or destroyed in the second scenario, the only way to get those guys running again is to fix them with the repair points awarded at the end of scenario two. Otherwise, HQ is prepared to drag those hulks all over North Africa for you, but it ain't prepared to fix 'em. That's the Army for you. As it stands, you'll have those Wolverines in support for scenario three, but they'll be gone beyond that.
The manual goes into these issues in some detail. I hope this clears at least the third question up for you. And welcome to the funhouse.
DFW
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Pantherblaster
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 10:00 am
- Location: Bilthoven, Utrecht, The Netherlands
Hi Alex.
To guestion 1: Ranger and other special forces squads are usually substatially much smaller than regular squads, because there role on the battlefield and the way they perform that asks for smaller units. They have to infiltrate there way in and perform special assignments, which asks for small specialist units who can dissapppear in the surroundings. Don't forget though that the anti-armour capacity of these units are much weaker than that of other infantry (particular arm-inf and airborne-infantry)
To question 2: you're probably wright to argue that the Wolverine is better than the standard Sherman and other 75mm Shermans but, the Shermans with the 76 high velocity barrel can be very effective if correctly employed. They have better armour to just mention onething. The Jumbo and M36 Jackson are my favourite US vehicle combination (no Pershings for me).
To question 3: I havent played this one yet. Good luck, though!!!
Regards,
PANTHERBLASTER
To guestion 1: Ranger and other special forces squads are usually substatially much smaller than regular squads, because there role on the battlefield and the way they perform that asks for smaller units. They have to infiltrate there way in and perform special assignments, which asks for small specialist units who can dissapppear in the surroundings. Don't forget though that the anti-armour capacity of these units are much weaker than that of other infantry (particular arm-inf and airborne-infantry)
To question 2: you're probably wright to argue that the Wolverine is better than the standard Sherman and other 75mm Shermans but, the Shermans with the 76 high velocity barrel can be very effective if correctly employed. They have better armour to just mention onething. The Jumbo and M36 Jackson are my favourite US vehicle combination (no Pershings for me).
To question 3: I havent played this one yet. Good luck, though!!!
Regards,
PANTHERBLASTER
"War is the continuation of politics by all other means"-Vom Kriege, Carl von Clausewitz.
I fear you will soon find the Wolverine's are too soft a target... fast, but easy to kill. Others disagree with me, but I stick with the heaviest armor I can get (the Jumbo's, when available).
As for the Rangers, thanks to Wild Bill (and probably in the manual, too, but who wants to wade through that!)I recently learned they can be set up during "human" deployment to infiltrate to a predetermined hex, where they will appear "sometime" during the scenario (look for the button on the right, it's like an initial bombardment sort of thing). That makes them a lot more valuable than as assault troops. For plain old infanty slugfests, I always choose Airborne platoons with Thompson SMG's. Each squad carries a bazooka, and with a halftrack to carry them, they're fast movers and are 12-man squads. When the lead starts flying, I want lots of guys around!
P.S. You don't need to purchase a HQ unless you want an extra, the game gives one to you. (I guess they have value if you use command and control, but I never do, so I end up parking them somewhere out of the way.)
[This message has been edited by REMF (edited December 11, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by REMF (edited December 11, 2000).]
As for the Rangers, thanks to Wild Bill (and probably in the manual, too, but who wants to wade through that!)I recently learned they can be set up during "human" deployment to infiltrate to a predetermined hex, where they will appear "sometime" during the scenario (look for the button on the right, it's like an initial bombardment sort of thing). That makes them a lot more valuable than as assault troops. For plain old infanty slugfests, I always choose Airborne platoons with Thompson SMG's. Each squad carries a bazooka, and with a halftrack to carry them, they're fast movers and are 12-man squads. When the lead starts flying, I want lots of guys around!
P.S. You don't need to purchase a HQ unless you want an extra, the game gives one to you. (I guess they have value if you use command and control, but I never do, so I end up parking them somewhere out of the way.)
[This message has been edited by REMF (edited December 11, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by REMF (edited December 11, 2000).]
Retreat is NOT an option.
Thanks all for all the answers.
I understand now about both the rangers and wolverines, from the technical standpoints. I'm guessing that later in the war the Sherman becomes a better tank killer than it was in Torch.
However, I realize, rereading it, I was unclear on my third question, and so I'm gonna clarify it.
My two non deployable, dead, Wolverines were not bought in Scen Two. They were bought in the 'pre-deployment' support points screen for Scen Three. They ate up 180 of my 300 Scen 3 support points, too, so you can understand my concern with getting them as off board hulks
Any ideas on how to make them be alive?
And, now, for a 4th question: Has anyone ever played 'Paving the Way' or other campaigns, with realistic allied forces, for example, in 'Paving' using British forces instead of US ones. I've been debating trying it with the Canadians. Does anyone know if the Candians had ground forces involved in Torch?
If I do, would people be interested in seeing post scenario reports? I wouldn't want to spam you all if there's no interest.
Thanks again for the earlier answers,
Alex
I understand now about both the rangers and wolverines, from the technical standpoints. I'm guessing that later in the war the Sherman becomes a better tank killer than it was in Torch.
However, I realize, rereading it, I was unclear on my third question, and so I'm gonna clarify it.
My two non deployable, dead, Wolverines were not bought in Scen Two. They were bought in the 'pre-deployment' support points screen for Scen Three. They ate up 180 of my 300 Scen 3 support points, too, so you can understand my concern with getting them as off board hulks
Any ideas on how to make them be alive?
And, now, for a 4th question: Has anyone ever played 'Paving the Way' or other campaigns, with realistic allied forces, for example, in 'Paving' using British forces instead of US ones. I've been debating trying it with the Canadians. Does anyone know if the Candians had ground forces involved in Torch?
If I do, would people be interested in seeing post scenario reports? I wouldn't want to spam you all if there's no interest.
Thanks again for the earlier answers,
Alex
"Tonight a dynasty is born." Ricky Proehl, then of the Saint Louis Rams. He was right! Go Pats! Winners of Super Bowls 36, 38 and 39.
Absolutely!! The M4a3(76)W mounts the identical tube to the US 76mm AT gun. What I think you will find, Alex, is that as your crews gain experience they will be racking up AFV kills much more readily. At least, that is what I am getting.Originally posted by Alexandra:
I'm guessing that later in the war the Sherman becomes a better tank killer than it was in Torch.
Alex[/B]
Even so, during play of U2R, I turned in a couple of 30 cal MG's for M10's, then upgraded those to M36 Jacksons. I will tell you the Germans do NOT like the 90mm in the M36. I just popped one, he turned tail and retreated, like real quick.
You want some real fun, take mortars for reinforcements. You'll get them for one turn. They will show up next scen. in the Fix/Change screen, but no matter what you do, they won't deploy on the map. That's a warning as to what is coming: First turn, the mortars are actually usable, even though they ought not to be "offboard", they certainly are!
I got one shoot, then next turn they showed up as having destroyed themselves. No counterbattery, the Germans don't have arty, not that I"ve seen thus far in the scen. They just self-destructed.
The fog of war!!!!!
Regards,
Bing
"For Those That Fought For It, Freedom Has a Taste And A Meaning The Protected Will Never Know. " -
From the 101st Airborne Division Association Website
From the 101st Airborne Division Association Website
Pardon me on those 4.2" mortars: The first time you select them as reinforcements, they will appear onboard and you can use them accordingly. It is during the Fix/Change phase of the NEXT scenario that the fun begins.
Sorry if I misled. And this isn't really a serious criticism, either. The game is simiply too good for me to be upset about this, I put it down as the inevitable bug we see in all computer games. There are much, much worse bugs in other games I have.
Bing
Sorry if I misled. And this isn't really a serious criticism, either. The game is simiply too good for me to be upset about this, I put it down as the inevitable bug we see in all computer games. There are much, much worse bugs in other games I have.
Bing
"For Those That Fought For It, Freedom Has a Taste And A Meaning The Protected Will Never Know. " -
From the 101st Airborne Division Association Website
From the 101st Airborne Division Association Website
The same thing has happened to me in various campaigns. I add support units (and sometimes reinforcement units), and they show as core units going into fix/repair for the next battle. Don't waste repair/change points fixing or changing them, because as has been mentioned, they won't show on the map for deployment. The SPWaW wizards know about this bug, and hopefully it will be addressed after the holidays. One thing you can always try, when in doubt, is to delete the steel.prf file and restart the game (I assume you always save the beginning and end of each scenario and battle).
Retreat is NOT an option.
The rather odd aspect of this was, I had an airborne platoon from a support phase that became "destroyed" the turn after I used it. But a couple of scenarios later, I was able to "fix" the units, they are now double-timing across a field to be ready for the Jerries.Originally posted by REMF:
The same thing has happened to me in various campaigns. I add support units (and sometimes reinforcement units ....
All of this kind of adds "flavor" to the game, if that is the appropriate terminology.
"For Those That Fought For It, Freedom Has a Taste And A Meaning The Protected Will Never Know. " -
From the 101st Airborne Division Association Website
From the 101st Airborne Division Association Website
Hi Alexandra the Wolverines are the only thing available in nov 42 that carry the 76mm L54 antitank gun and are designed to kill tanks ... the shermans available have the 75mm L38 gun which is technicaly capable of handleing german armor of the period but is less capable than the wolverine in several aspect... less high performance antitank ammo (APCR)... right click on units and look at ammo types and quanity... also look at rangefinder and sights info.. rangefinder and sights the higher the number the better makes it easier to hit the enemy... also available when you right click on the unit. However those wolverines are open top and very easy to suppress with artillery especialy mortars
as to the infantry .. the infantry in nov 42 has 1 M1 bazooka per platoon and very little ammo ..if you are going to use rangers try backing them up with with an indepentdant inf AT team of 3 bazookas each two man team carries more rounds and is less likely to be spotted than a whole squad bazookas have a fairly short range 6 hexs but are as good as the gun on a sherman . also if you are planing to pay the premium for elite forces make sure you remember to manually rally them as often as you can. Elite units rally better than regular infantry and those rangers cost twice as much as regular infantry so get what ya pay for .
some thoughts on US forces and artillery no other nation in the game gets the time on target advantage that the US does take a look at what mortars or even better and cheaper what the 75mm m1a1 pack howitzers can do when you have a forward observer and look at all the smoke they have. You should be able to engage any unit on the map from the map edge with 75mm pack hows with considerable accuracy immediately if a forward observer is calling the shots time delay 0.1 don't expect big kills but they will suppress enemy infantry and button up tanks making them easier to kill and making enemy unit significantly less effective against you.
The scheme of selecting units may need some explaining first you get somewhere around 1300 points or so to select your core units..when you press done you get an identical screen with around 300 points in this campaine... those are the support units that are for this scenario only .you play the game and get a score screen with what got killed and your score... when you click done on that screen you get a screen that lists your core units and gives you so many points to fix damaged units and/or replace/upgrade units I ALWAYS go thru and repair units i am not going to upgrade FIRST then i upgrade damaged units watching my points so i have enough points to repair what I can't afford to upgrade of my core units .. THEN when you start the next scenario in the campaigne you get to select new support units and these should be chosen based on the mission i hope this helps :}
as to the infantry .. the infantry in nov 42 has 1 M1 bazooka per platoon and very little ammo ..if you are going to use rangers try backing them up with with an indepentdant inf AT team of 3 bazookas each two man team carries more rounds and is less likely to be spotted than a whole squad bazookas have a fairly short range 6 hexs but are as good as the gun on a sherman . also if you are planing to pay the premium for elite forces make sure you remember to manually rally them as often as you can. Elite units rally better than regular infantry and those rangers cost twice as much as regular infantry so get what ya pay for .
some thoughts on US forces and artillery no other nation in the game gets the time on target advantage that the US does take a look at what mortars or even better and cheaper what the 75mm m1a1 pack howitzers can do when you have a forward observer and look at all the smoke they have. You should be able to engage any unit on the map from the map edge with 75mm pack hows with considerable accuracy immediately if a forward observer is calling the shots time delay 0.1 don't expect big kills but they will suppress enemy infantry and button up tanks making them easier to kill and making enemy unit significantly less effective against you.
The scheme of selecting units may need some explaining first you get somewhere around 1300 points or so to select your core units..when you press done you get an identical screen with around 300 points in this campaine... those are the support units that are for this scenario only .you play the game and get a score screen with what got killed and your score... when you click done on that screen you get a screen that lists your core units and gives you so many points to fix damaged units and/or replace/upgrade units I ALWAYS go thru and repair units i am not going to upgrade FIRST then i upgrade damaged units watching my points so i have enough points to repair what I can't afford to upgrade of my core units .. THEN when you start the next scenario in the campaigne you get to select new support units and these should be chosen based on the mission i hope this helps :}
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
There were no Canadian forces involved in Operation Torch, the First Canadian Division (including The Royal Canadian Regiment, Princess Patricia's Candian Light Infantry - PPCLI & the Royal 22nd Regiment - The Vandoos) saw its first action when it replaced the British 3rd division for Operation Husky - the invasion of Sicily on July 10, 1943. They started shipping out of England on June 17, 1943 (the last shipping on July 1, 1943) Some of the troop ships were sunk by submarines in the Mediteranean, with little loss of life, but a lot of lost equipment. They went straight from transport to beach assault.
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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
http://dreadnaught.home.icq.com
nwbattalion@icqmail.com
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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
http://dreadnaught.home.icq.com
nwbattalion@icqmail.com
Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Webmaster
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
Main http://www.nwbattalion.com
E-mail
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
Main http://www.nwbattalion.com
The US forces can get the M9 Bazooka in 1944 (range 7 , acc 16, pen 176 vs M1 @ range 6, acc 12, pen 115). If you feel this is bad consider the situation of the Commonwealth forces with the dreaded PIAT (Range = 2, acc = 12, pen = 138).Originally posted by AmmoSgt:
<SNIP>
as to the infantry .. the infantry in nov 42 has 1 M1 bazooka per platoon and very little ammo ..<SNIP>... bazookas have a fairly short range 6 hexs but are as good as the gun on a sherman .
Playing WB's U2R its a hard job coping with the British forces when you're used to the US with M9's.
What I'm getting at is, don't feel so hard done by having a range of ONLY 6 hexes, think of those poor disadvantaged Commonwealth forces (ok, so they can get the 17pdr and 6pdr with APDS, but the infantry sure are badly off)
[This message has been edited by kao16 (edited December 11, 2000).]