Three Questions

[Lion9]

Hi Vic and everyone,

Long time hex-gamer, since Avalon Hill's "D-Day" and I am considering the purchase of ATG. I have a few questions that will help me decide if this game will work for me and fit my limited budget.

[btw Vic -- I was on your original site for 3 or 4 weeks -- back in '04 I think it was when you introduced your first game. Good to see that you are as friendly and accessible now as you ever were then! [8D] ]

1) I have read through many of the threads on your WW2 module, and wonder if ALL of the features -- especially WRT those unique WW2 graphics and scenarios, will be included with ATG? Or, should I buy the "AT WW2 module" game separately?

2) Has anyone made a mod for WW2 ETO grand strategy that has a scale of ~ 50 miles per hex? One that will work in ATG? For one instance, similar to SSI's old dos classic -- "Clash of Steel?" I haven't YET found a really good computer HEX game made at that scale. Though, good to see that Matrix is yet faithful to the WiF-FE project!

3) I am assuming that any scenario -- either included with ATG or in "the bank" -- that is labeled "human vs human only," could also be played as HOTSEAT? True or not true?

Thanks in advance for any assistance on these 3 questions.

[Jeffrey H.]

#3 is a yes. You'll have to run a PBEM type game and use the same passwords. It might be a bit klutzy, having to load and unload the file everytime. Never tried it myself.

[Lion9]

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

#3 is a yes. You'll have to run a PBEM type game and use the same passwords. It might be a bit klutzy, having to load and unload the file everytime. Never tried it myself.

Thanks for the reply, but are you saying that I would have to send EM's to myself? That there is no "hotseat" choice on the start-game menu? [&:]

[Jeffrey H.]

AT-WWII, not ATG, has no "hotseat" option. There isn't any intrinsic email function either. You need to have a game file. The way it wouldwork is you would need to "save and close" at the end of your turn and then reload immediately and use the file you just saved to your HD. A bit klutzy but possible.

I'm not sure if ATG will be any different.

[Ande]

wait what?
In AT-WWII you can start a game with two or any number of human players. Each player submits a password before their first turn. At the end of each turn there is the option "save & quit" for saving files for pbem games. There is also the option of "start turn". Selecting that option will prompt for the subsequent players password and upon recieving this that player can do his turn. By any definition of hotseat I know, this is it.

[Tac2i]

And if your playing hotseat, you can dispense with passwords if you wish.

[Jeffrey H.]

ORIGINAL: Ande

wait what?
In AT-WWII you can start a game with two or any number of human players. Each player submits a password before their first turn. At the end of each turn there is the option "save & quit" for saving files for pbem games. There is also the option of "start turn". Selecting that option will prompt for the subsequent players password and upon recieving this that player can do his turn. By any definition of hotseat I know, this is it.

Yep, that sounds like it to me. I haven't tried it myself.

[Lion9]

ORIGINAL: Webizen

And if your playing hotseat, you can dispense with passwords if you wish.

Thanks to you and Ande for the clarifications. I will presume -- unless eventually told O/W -- that ATG will ALSO have this same ease of hotseat play.

Reason it is one of the main deciding purchase-factors for me is simply this: my son will come over every couple weeks or so and our respective wives will go out for a Ladies "mad-money" Day, and he and I will spend 4 or 5 hours playing one of the many computer wargames that I have -- hotseat.

When he was younger, we would play chess and also board war-games together -- we started early and with an easy one (... AH's "War at Sea") and graduated to the tougher encounters as he got older. At last we even managed to complete a full game of "Advanced Third Reich." Gave us then, and gives us now a great opportunity to re-establish old kinship. Fathers and sons have enough trouble bridging the "generation gap" as is, so having a shared common interest is ideal. Can't do much better than war-gaming, IMO. [8D]

And too, I like to occasionally play a scenario where I seriously play both sides, same way I would have to do it with A3R or WiF-FE when there were no easily apprehended human opponents. Really, it's one good way to learn the best possible strategies & tactics -- from both sides and simultaneously.

However, it does seem as though Vic might? Wish to actually put a selector button on the start-game UI? Would not apply to many scenarios, especially those that are random generated, but for all of the "HvsH" type scenarios, well, wouldn't that make it easier all around? IDK, maybe not.

[Lion9]

And so, we are left with 2 other questions, well, I am anyhow. If anyone knows something about these next 2, I would really appreciate further clarification.

1) Will those cool WW2-and-People-specific unit graphics be bundled with ATG? I would hope so, say, as an option that can be simply selected -- maybe in a drop down, one-click choice. Or might they be available later as an easily installed update?

2) Does anyone know if there is a WW2 ETO GS (... ~40-50 mile per hex) scenario? Again, I am thinking of something like SSI's old COS comptuer game. Since I don't own the first AT game, I can't DL any of those WW2 strategic scenarios to check for myself. Would if I could! [:)]

Side note for Vic: I wonder if it would be a good idea to include the SCALE on each individual scenario descriptor? You can take any map, even if no scale is provided and simply calculate distance between cities and come up with a fairly accurate hex-scale, I would guess. I wouldn't mind also seeing each scenario-creator provide a short and concise description, sort of a brief "designer's notes" so that all of us could better estimate playability.

[Grymme]

1) dont know what graphics you mean, but if it the ones included in the ATG previews they should be there.
 
2) Here is a list of more or less all known scenarios for AT & some known for ATG. There are at least a couple of ETO scenarios, one of them an official scenario included in AT. Dont know the exact scale.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2759761
 

[Vic]

ORIGINAL: Lion9

2) Does anyone know if there is a WW2 ETO GS (... ~40-50 mile per hex) scenario? Again, I am thinking of something like SSI's old COS comptuer game. Since I don't own the first AT game, I can't DL any of those WW2 strategic scenarios to check for myself. Would if I could! [:)]

hi there,

I think tom webers europe 1939 (included in AT(Gold)) and world at war scenarios (several versions on scenariobank and revamp packed with AT Gold) come very close to that scale.

Sadly i have no time to categorize user made scenarios on scale and stuff, basicly if you want to play scenarios that conform to strict scales and unit sizes and are very well documented and explained you might try Decisive Campaigns: Warsaw to Paris.

best,
Vic

[Lion9]

ORIGINAL: Vic

ORIGINAL: Lion9

2) Does anyone know if there is a WW2 ETO GS (... ~40-50 mile per hex) scenario? Again, I am thinking of something like SSI's old COS comptuer game. Since I don't own the first AT game, I can't DL any of those WW2 strategic scenarios to check for myself. Would if I could! [:)]

hi there,

I think tom webers europe 1939 (included in AT(Gold)) and world at war scenarios (several versions on scenariobank and revamp packed with AT Gold) come very close to that scale.

Sadly i have no time to categorize user made scenarios on scale and stuff, basicly if you want to play scenarios that conform to strict scales and unit sizes and are very well documented and explained you might try Decisive Campaigns: Warsaw to Paris.

best,
Vic

Thanks Vic (and everyone) for the responses. [:)]

1) The graphics are fine. No, better than only fine -- they are deftly done.

2) I can play any ATG game, whether "random" or a scenario -- "hotseat," so that concern is completely solved.

3) There is an ETO GS scenario included that is ~ 50 miles per hex (~ 90 km) I gather, so I am very glad to "officially" hear that. [8D]

All criteria mentioned in this thread -- satisfied? Check.

Having now had sufficient time to read through very many of the pertinent threads (especially helpful was Webizen's "concepts & tips" and "reference guide" -- thanks for those), and having visited the other VR sites, I am quite satisified that this game will prove to be great fun for years to come and I will most cetainly buy it and try it! Too and FWIW, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to any other long-time hex-game player either. Like everyone else equally interested, I am merely awaiting the official release.

Later today would be nice! [8D]

I will surely take a long look at your other game Vic, and will also look forward to whatever comes next. My preference would be for an elaborate game that would "magnify" the Mediterranean -- air, land and naval wars, to include a complete North Afrika campaign and perhaps encompassing -- Yugo, Greece and the AB assualt on Crete (the original Avalon Hill game was excellent) and the US invasion of Rik's Place there in Casablanca. Maybe even the complete Italian campaigns, to include Anzio and Monte Cassino?

IMHO, "War in the East" has been done so many times (most recently by Grigsby, and not to omit the scenario included with ATG) that maybe it might be saved for later? Well, that decision is well beyond my pay-grade, so I'll just have to wait and see what... develops.

[MemoryLeak]

I don't have AT. I had intended to purchase ATG but I was reading the threads about AT and the lack of a decent manual. I ws going thru the supply guide for Newbies and about how the manualis severly lacking necessary information. And I was reading this thread about some "concepts and tips and tricks". I tried searching but no results. Can you tell me where that post is located?
I really dislike trying to muddle thru game mechanics without any useful reference manual. Historically I have always had great difficulty in comprehending game supply rules. They usually are not consistent in what they name a certain item from one screen to another, or the terms they use are confusing or down-right misleading.

DOH! I was looking in the wrong section. I just spotted the tips and tricks.

[Tac2i]

ATG: Key Concepts and Tips
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2756292

[MemoryLeak]

Do you believe since ATG is an improved version of AT that I should wait for ATG to be released or is AT a very good product that I would use in addition to ATG? I just have a feeling that ATG is mainly a correction of defecienies or a fixing of problems, so that I would immediately shelve AT after playing ATG.

[Tac2i]

I would definitely recommend that you wait. ATG should be released very soon and it is backward compatible with AT.

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

Do you believe since ATG is an improved version of AT that I should wait for ATG to be released or is AT a very good product that I would use in addition to ATG? I just have a feeling that ATG is mainly a correction of defecienies or a fixing of problems, so that I would immediately shelve AT after playing ATG.

[tweber]

ORIGINAL: Vic

hi there,

I think tom webers europe 1939 (included in AT(Gold)) and world at war scenarios (several versions on scenariobank and revamp packed with AT Gold) come very close to that scale.

Sadly i have no time to categorize user made scenarios on scale and stuff, basicly if you want to play scenarios that conform to strict scales and unit sizes and are very well documented and explained you might try Decisive Campaigns: Warsaw to Paris.

best,
Vic

WAW uses two scales. The European scale just under 40 miles per hex (e.g., 20 hexes from Warsaw to Moscow which is about 750 miles). I found a nice application call google tile maps that puts together maps for any sets of lats and longs at a variety of scales.

[Lion9]

ORIGINAL: tweber

ORIGINAL: Vic

hi there,

I think tom webers europe 1939 (included in AT(Gold)) and world at war scenarios (several versions on scenariobank and revamp packed with AT Gold) come very close to that scale.

Sadly i have no time to categorize user made scenarios on scale and stuff, basicly if you want to play scenarios that conform to strict scales and unit sizes and are very well documented and explained you might try Decisive Campaigns: Warsaw to Paris.

best,
Vic

WAW uses two scales. The European scale just under 40 miles per hex (e.g., 20 hexes from Warsaw to Moscow which is about 750 miles). I found a nice application call google tile maps that puts together maps for any sets of lats and longs at a variety of scales.

I have had a look at your WAW in the Mod thread, tweber, and it looks quite accomplished. [8D]

Vic has mentioned that another of your scenarios -- Europe 39 -- will also be included. Couple of questions for you:

1) What is the scale for Europe 39, and

2) Does it have an AI? Or can it only be played HvsH or hotseat?

[TPM]

ORIGINAL: Lion9

2) Does anyone know if there is a WW2 ETO GS (... ~40-50 mile per hex) scenario? Again, I am thinking of something like SSI's old COS comptuer game. Since I don't own the first AT game, I can't DL any of those WW2 strategic scenarios to check for myself. Would if I could! [:)]

Jus want to chime in and say that I would like to see something like this as well...I loved Clash of Steel!

Sorry, just read the other posts...guess we've got it with tweber's scenarios. Thanks.

[GrumpyMel]

Lion9,

Welcome aboard. You'll find a very freindly community of users here for Vic's excellent game and plenty of potential opponents if you ever feel like flexing your PBEM muscles.

I would definately reccomend browsing through the AT scenerio bank, if you have the interest. One of the amazing things about the AT series is the flexibilty of the engine and the editor. I think you'll find a wide variety of scenerio's available covering many periods and scales. As I understand it, the scenerio's designed for classic AT should be playable under ATG.

Pretty much the only scale AT doesn't handle well (ironicaly enough) is tactical...as there is no facility LOS and a few other things that really only come into play on the tactical level. But you should have no problems finding a plethora of strategic and operational scenerio's.