Training effects on Pilot Skills

[Chris21wen]

First, this was easy task all-be-it laborious as there is no way too extract pilot skills from the game nor create them with the scenario editor. This does not include experience.

Observations at scenario start
Each scenario has a number of pilots already assigned to groups but how many and which groups varies considerably. For the majority groups this means that the remaining pilots are randomly generated dependent upon the group’s ready+unready values. For instance if an a/c group had two pilots assigned and the ready+unready value was 4 then you would see 4 pilots in the list, the two assigned and two random one.

The overall factor governing the skills of the pilots is experience. If a groups experience is set at 30 then the average Exp for the group will be around 30. The remaining pilot skills are generated from this, with Defn and the default mission skill around the same. (For fighter groups the default mission skills Air and Staf, for level bombers it’s GrdB, etc). All other skills are approx. half this figure. Fat appears to be completely random but less than 3.

The Training Test Set Up
The tests were carried out on 26 (8 Japan/18 Allied) groups over a period of 89 day. (Supposed to have been 90 days but I found out you cannot save the game when the scenario ends). Other than new units arriving the was no other activity (i.e. TFs sent back to base, other air groups set to stand down, LCU set to rest etc.). The game was set to run continually Head-to-Head until the time limit was reached using version 11.06i

All the groups had the following in common:
• 20 a/c all ready with two assigned pilots and 18 random pilots.
• 30 avg Exp with one Exp 70 pilot and one Exp 50 pilot.
• Morale 99
• Pilot replacements set to manual.
• Aircraft replacements set to allowed.
• Group leader stats all set to 50 (except for one Allied group).
• Assigned to the same air HQ (dependent on nationality).
• Air HQ leader stats all set to 50.
• Bases well stocked (Tokyo and SF).

The following did vary:
• Training type mission
• Patrol (Training) levels
• Range
• Altitude
• Aircraft type

Results
I have not included the individual pilot skill level all values are based on the Avg, Max or Min for each group.

Test observations
• In all tests carried out I have seen no pilot skills larger than 74 and this was the due to Mission training. The Default Mission skills improve most, but using Mission training does it quicker, reaching 70 in around 70-90 days.
• General training will improve all stats dependent upon altitude. (see NavT below).
• Training above 5000ft has no effect upon the low altitude skills of LowN and LowG.
• Training at or below 5000ft improves LowN and LowG.
• At 100% general training the default mission skill and Defn increase by around 100%. All other skills increase by approx. 50%
• Mission training only improves those skills associated with the mission type plus Exp and Defn. In my tests I used Air, Ground, Port, Search and Naval and the skills improved were the mission skills of GrdB, GrdB, GrdB, NavS and NavB respectively plus Exp and Defn.
• In Mission training tests, mission skills reached approx. 60 after only 30 days, it took another 40-60 days to get to 70. The percentage increase on general training varies considerably 40-300% depending upon the initial skill level and type of aircraft. The downside to mission training is a reduce Defn gain by approx. -30%. There was no significant change to EXP gain compared with general training..
• Staf training only occurs for fighter or fighter bombers at 100ft. This is a Mission skill so the only other skills affected are Exp and Defn. See above.
• NavT training only occurs if the aircraft is actually carrying torpedoes. Height is irrelevant but you do have to use either General training or Naval Attack with corresponding levels of improvement to both. Torpedo capable aircraft that carry bombs trains LowN or NavB.
• Using a training level of less than 100% does have an effect but it seems to be less than you might think. I used a training level of 60 and the difference was between 10-30%. The advantage being less fatigue.
• The higher the training level the more pilots fly and the higher fatigue will be. The figures also indicate that the greater the experience of the pilot the less they fly training missions. In 100% training tests fatigue was between 24-30. At 60% training it was less than half this figure.
• Range also affects fatigue, it increases anywhere between 5-15% dependent upon the training level.

If anyone is interested in the actually figures I’ll attempt to put them up as a Excel Spreadsheet.

[pacificbetta]

Yes, please post the spreadsheet. TY for the grunt work.

[LoBaron]

Good summary. [:)]

You probably meant "at or below 5000ft its LowN or LowG" in point 3 of your test observations.
Sweep reaining at 100 increases def skill better than general training.

[pacificbetta]

Sweep reaining at 100 increases def skill better than general training.

Now that is news to me. Does this mean that for a "balanced" inprovement in skill set for fighter pilots, one can consider training "sweep" at 100 ft, so the pilot largely improve on AA and def?

<grumble> been training sweeps at 10k altitude all the time LOL

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Good summary. [:)]

You probably meant "at or below 5000ft its LowN or LowG" in point 3 of your test observations.
Sweep reaining at 100 increases def skill better than general training.

I hate double negatives, the answer was based on the previous question and yes it should say that.

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Sweep reaining at 100 increases def skill better than general training.

I didn't notice that but I might have missed it so I'll run the tests again.

[LoBaron]

I&nbsp;rarely&nbsp;use general training so I am really interested in the outcome.
Your tests might result that general and sweep @&nbsp;100 both increases def skill at the same speed.
&nbsp;
The advantage of sweep @ 100 is that you increase&nbsp;2 of the premier fighter pilot skills at once:
def and strafe (plus one or the other additional air skill point)
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
pacificbetta, yes, in my opinion the training circle a fighter pilot should go through is escort (at any alt) and sweep.
Naturally depends on the time available.

[CaptBeefheart]

Chris H: Thanks for your important work. Any chance of doing some tests while shifting variables such as (in descending order of importance):

1. Air HQ within range vs. not in range
2. One Exp 70 pilot in squadron vs. all rookies
3. One Exp 50 pilot in squadron vs. all rookies
4. Different leadership attributes of squadron leaders (I know, this would be onerous)
5. Airfield Size 9 vs. Airfield Size 4 or thereabouts
6. Mission of Training with Escort (100% active) vs. mission of Escort with 100% Training selected

Advice is all over the map on pilot training so it would be great to get some empirical data.

Cheers,
CC

[Chris21wen]

I carried out more tests and have had to make&nbsp;changes to the test observations previosly posted.&nbsp; These affect Staf and NavT mainly.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Chris H: Thanks for your important work. Any chance of doing some tests while shifting variables such as (in descending order of importance):

1. Air HQ within range vs. not in range
2. One Exp 70 pilot in squadron vs. all rookies
3. One Exp 50 pilot in squadron vs. all rookies
4. Different leadership attributes of squadron leaders (I know, this would be onerous)
5. Airfield Size 9 vs. Airfield Size 4 or thereabouts
6. Mission of Training with Escort (100% active) vs. mission of Escort with 100% Training selected

Advice is all over the map on pilot training so it would be great to get some empirical data.

Cheers,
CC

I can but it will take a while.

[pacificbetta]

pacificbetta, yes, in my opinion the training circle a fighter pilot should go through is escort (at any alt) and sweep.
Naturally depends on the time available.

Ah, I misread, I thought you meant that training sweep at 100' will improve AA and def. That would almost 1/2 the training cycle of the fighter pilot!

[witpqs]

Are you guys basing this on the current official patch or on the Beta? I think the Beta made some adjustments, but I'm not solid on what they are.

[CaptBeefheart]

Anything you do would be appreciated. I may take a look this weekend and see if I can figure this kind of thing out myself.

Cheers,
CC

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Are you guys basing this on the current official patch or on the Beta? I think the Beta made some adjustments, but I'm not solid on what they are.

Yes

[pacificbetta]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Chris H: Thanks for your important work. Any chance of doing some tests while shifting variables such as (in descending order of importance):

1. Air HQ within range vs. not in range
2. One Exp 70 pilot in squadron vs. all rookies
3. One Exp 50 pilot in squadron vs. all rookies
4. Different leadership attributes of squadron leaders (I know, this would be onerous)
5. Airfield Size 9 vs. Airfield Size 4 or thereabouts
6. Mission of Training with Escort (100% active) vs. mission of Escort with 100% Training selected

Advice is all over the map on pilot training so it would be great to get some empirical data.

Cheers,
CC

I can but it will take a while.

While we are at this, may I also request a comparison of 35XP/35 Air to Air versus 60XP/35 Air to Air. tia.

[crsutton]

Thanks,

After playing for a while I sort of had a feel for all of this but you tests help confirm it. Basically, all my pilots get trianed up in one skill and then traine up or partially trained up on another. For example SBDs and Avenger pilots I like to have ASW as a secondary skill. I find that the second skill training will pull the defensive skill up to where you need it.

Some pilots have three skills but the time invested vs the time it takes for me to kill off one of my pilots makes it foolish to waste the effort.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Some pilots have three skills but the time invested vs the time it takes for me to kill off one of my pilots makes it foolish to waste the effort.

+1

[inqistor]

Great tests!
I have also noticed, that replacement pilots have starting skill appropriate for plane type, slightly higher.

ORIGINAL: Chris H
• In Mission training tests, mission skills reached approx. 60 after only 30 days, it took another 40-60 days to get to 70. The percentage increase on general training varies considerably 40-300% depending upon the initial skill level and type of aircraft. The downside to mission training is a reduce Defn gain by approx. -30%. There was no significant change to EXP gain compared with general training..

So, it seems, that training above 60 is complete waste of time, as you can train another bunch of pilots in time, those get to 70.

• The higher the training level the more pilots fly and the higher fatigue will be. The figures also indicate that the greater the experience of the pilot the less they fly training missions. In 100% training tests fatigue was between 24-30. At 60% training it was less than half this figure.

Well, that is interesting. What happens, when there is no enough planes (or even 0 planes)? I see that units with only 1 plane, or 0, still train at 100%, without noticeable fatigue. That could suggest, that without enough planes training is slower.

• Range also affects fatigue, it increases anywhere between 5-15% dependent upon the training level.

Is increasing range helping in any way, during training? Is there a difference, between 1 hex, and much longer range?

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Is increasing range helping in any way, during training? Is there a difference, between 1 hex, and much longer range?

Appears not to be. The only effect is fatique.

[Chris21wen]

[font=arial]Effects of Inspiration and HQ Range on Pilot Skills[/font]
[font=arial]The Training Test Set Up[/font]
[font="times new roman"]The tests were carried out on 6 Japanese fighter groups over a period of 90 day.&nbsp; Other than new units arriving there was no other activity.&nbsp; The game was set to run continually Head-to-Head until the time limit was reached using version 11.06i[/font]
[font="times new roman"]&nbsp;[/font]
[font="times new roman"]All the groups had the following in common:[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]20 a/c all ready with an 30 avg Exp[/i].[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Morale 99[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Pilot replacements set to manual.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Aircraft replacements set to allowed.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Group leader stats set to 50 except for inspiration.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Air HQ leader stats all set to 50 base at Shimizu.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Assigned to the same 11th Air Flotilla air HQ (command range 1).[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Three Bases were used, Shimizu (range 0), Yokohama (range 1) and Tokyo (range 1) with two Nate Sentai based at each one.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Escort training was used so only Fat, Exp, Air and Defn[/i] were affected.&nbsp; (see the earlier notes for mission training).[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Training set at 100%, altitude 15000ft, max range 0.[/font]
[font="times new roman"]&nbsp;[/font]
[font="times new roman"]The following did vary:[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Group leader inspiration was set to either 10 or 90.&nbsp; This meant that each base and one group with leader Insp[/i] set to 10 and one set to 90.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Range from Air HQ.&nbsp; At a range of 2 Tokyo was outside of the HQ command range.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Reading where taken after 30, 60 and 90 days.[/font]
[font=arial]Results[/font]
[font="times new roman"]I have not included the individual pilot skill level all values are based on the Avg, Max or Min for each group. &nbsp;I ran them twice with strange and confusing results on both occasions![/b][/font]
[font=arial]Test observations[/font]
[font="times new roman"]In all the tests below figures are quoted for total percentage increase for 30, 60, and 90 days respectively.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]In all tests carried out there were no aircraft lost. (This was also true for the earlier tests).[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]None of the pilot skills (Fat, Exp, Air, Defn[/i]) were larger than 73.&nbsp; As usual the Default Mission skills (air[/i]) improve most.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Air[/i] increased the most which confirms the test results from earlier (Mission training).&nbsp; On average then these increases were 102-116%, 11-13% and 3-4%. &nbsp;The rate of increase difference is marked and is almost certain to have to do with pilots reaching an Air[/i] skill of 60 some were around 30 days.&nbsp; Range and inspiration had negligible effect after 30days but up to then they did.&nbsp; The higher inspiration is the quicker Air[/i] will reach 60.&nbsp; The shorter the range to the Air HQ the quicker Air[/i] will reach 60.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Experience increased on average by 26-28% during the first 30 days, 12-17% between 30-60 days and 10-16% for the 3rd period. &nbsp;Range to Air HQ had negligible effect.&nbsp; Inspiration did, but not what you might think.&nbsp; As inspiration increased Exp[/i] gain tended to get smaller, using the lower end figure.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Defn[/i] is tied closely to Air[/i] and once Air[/i] reaches 60 then training slows.&nbsp; On average then these increases were 43-63%, 13-18% and 3-6%.&nbsp; Range and inspiration had negligible effect after 30days. Before then the shorter the range to the Air HQ is the less the increase in Defn[/i] but this was probably due to less flying again.&nbsp; Increasing inspiration increased the Defn[/i] gain BUT only for groups within the command range.&nbsp; These last figures might have been a quirk.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Range from the air HQ affects fatigue.&nbsp; The closer to the air HQ there are less fatigue.&nbsp; Probably due to the HQ putting more a/c up in the air, resulting in quicker skill gain so less flying needed overall if that makes sense. [/font]
[font=arial]Conclusions[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Don’t bother training any primary mission skill once they reach 60.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Use a high Inspiration and short range to Air HQ for the quickest training of primary mission skills but the effects are not that great.[/font]
·&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [font="times new roman"]Once pilots reach 60 they will fly much less.&nbsp; This reduces fatigue and produces the Fat[/i] figures for the later training days.[/font]
[font="times new roman"]&nbsp;[/font]
[font="times new roman"]I have also found out that pilots will trickle train even though they are set to 0 training.[/font]
[font="times new roman"]&nbsp;[/font]I have not run the test but I would expect general training to be similar except that general mission skills will be trained.&nbsp; One advantage to using general training for mission training is Defn[/i] quicker.

[inqistor]

Thanks! Excellent tests!

It is interesting that they actually fly rarely with higher skill. I have also noticed, that manually putting pilots into group reserve put them away from training, but when AI do this, they train (or it rotates them).

I actually see, that somewhere over early 50s pilots seems to get experience really slow. Heck, I just made all-map-pilot-draw, and quite a lot of mid-50s did not get ANY gain during whole month, despite 100% training for the whole time!

Actually, now, it would be nice, to get tests with fewer planes. I would say 0, 1, half of full, and full, with full reserve.
Even without planes, pilots seems to train without problems.