new things about 1.04.10 patch beta

[kevini1000]

The first thing I notice was that the 1 Russian airfield just west of Leningrad and the 2 airfields just to the South east of Smolensk were now out of range. When hitting airfields it seemed as though I could only strike airfields with about 50 bombers per hit even when I assigned everyone.

Sath

[Joel Billings]

Probably has to do with the change that makes mixing of aircraft from different organizations no longer allowed (item 3 on the readme). This has major consequences regarding the use of staging bases as well as reducing the ability to concentrate massive amounts of airpower in any particular raid.

[carnifex]

Hopefully this change will still allow the German player to achieve at least the 4000 historical kills the first turn.

[wac29]

I got a little over 5100 on a newly started game

[Helpless]

at least the 4000 historical kills the first turn

This is not historical, but still possible.

[kevini1000]

How many planes did the Germans gett historically and how many did they really loose doing it. I could see where numbers could greatly varry depending on how you did the game or what time frame your looking at.

Sath

[marty_01]

From Glantz "Clash of Titans" page 49:

"...to hit 66 Soviet airfields in the forward areas. The Red Air Force lost over 1,200 aircraft in the first morning of the war. Throught the next few days, the Luftwaffe had undisputed air supremacy, and all Soviet Troop and rail movements received relentless attention"

Glantz footnotes the above as: Van Hardesty, "Red Pheonix: The Rise of Soviet Airpower, 1941-1945"

Apparently there is some controversy over some of the research conducted by Van Hardesty...so take the above with a grain...

[marty_01]

Within "Stumbling Colossus" (see pages 194 to 203) Glantz described air losses suffered within the Western Military District. These are apparently the losses described by the Western Front Air Force Commander Lt. General of Aviation N.F. Naumenko in a report dated 31 December 1941:

"On 22.6.41 at our airfields and in the air, the enemy destroyed 538 of our aircraft at a cost of 143 aircraft lost by the enemy. On the following day, the losses of the two sides were 125 and 124, respectively, and by the end of June, that is after eight days of war, our losses totaled 1,163 aircraft and enemy losses were 422."

glantz follows the section on the Western Front Airforce with snippets from a report by Lt General of Aviation F.A. Astakhov who disscussed losses suffered by the Southwestern Front during the opening phase of the war -- report dated 21 August 1941.

"As a result, from 22 through 24 June, the Germans destroyed 237 Soviet aircraft on the overly vulnerable airfields. Faulty equipment and poor training led to the loss of another 242 aircraft due to accidents during the period from 22 June through 10 August which constituted 13 percent of the total aircraft losses (1861 planes) during this period"

So according to the F.A. Astakhov Report the total Soviet air losses from 22 Jun to 10 August were 1861 Aircraft. Or at least that's how I am reading this section from Glantz.

[kevini1000]

I would almost bet that the Russian's are underplaying there losses. They actually seem light. The main thing is in WITE do we see a disruption of Soviet troop and rail movement and I almost have to say no. You see some interdiction of troop movement but almost no rail disruption unless that is built into the game. Can a unit moving by rail be interdicted. I played 5 or 6 turns as the Russian and I don't remember it ever happening. I was railing stuff everywhere and upto the front.

Sath

[randallw]

As said before, the chance of interdiction partially depends on detection level; ground units being railed to the front may not even be detected by the enemy, if they begin way in the rear, and may not be detected until they are adjacent to the enemy ( after detraining and moving of course ).

[marty_01]

ORIGINAL: sath

I would almost bet that the Russian's are underplaying there losses. They actually seem light.

Maybe. But you asked so one assumes from your question that you had nothing to go on. So on what basis do you think the loses are under-reported?

[kevini1000]

My reasoning is that as a commander if I reported higher losses even if acurrate then I might end up being arrested and executed or worse. For this reason I might fudge the numbers to be a little lower.


Sath

[runyan99]

ORIGINAL: randallw

As said before, the chance of interdiction partially depends on detection level; ground units being railed to the front may not even be detected by the enemy, if they begin way in the rear, and may not be detected until they are adjacent to the enemy ( after detraining and moving of course ).

Of course, in real life the above is exactly what does NOT happen when moving by rail against an enemy with air superiority. The trains get spotted by Jabos and shot up in route.

It needs addressed.

[Mynok]

Played through the first turn of GC41 a couple times last night.

Has something changed about port bombing? I cannot seem to get Kuressare down? 19% and still blocking sea transport to Riga?

[Joel Billings]

There were some changes to the city bombing routines, but the readme lists an increase, not decrease in damage. Are you bombing it with the same number of bombers (other changes tend to make it harder to concentrate air).

There are turn 1 (or turn 1 and 2) movement and rail capacity restrictions on the Soviets.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Played through the first turn of GC41 a couple times last night.

Has something changed about port bombing? I cannot seem to get Kuressare down? 19% and still blocking sea transport to Riga?

Are you clicking directly on Riga to make the move? I was able to move into Riga with Kuressare having only 1% damage in my game. Have you taken both Ventspils and Liepaja?

There was a change in 1.04 regarding the FOW at sea, so are you sure that you're not just misinterpreting the tile coloration?

[kevini1000]

Do units gain no moral when they win a battle now?

I'm still waiting to see a unit gain a moral point with a victory.

[Sabre21]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Played through the first turn of GC41 a couple times last night.

Has something changed about port bombing? I cannot seem to get Kuressare down? 19% and still blocking sea transport to Riga?

Are you clicking directly on Riga to make the move? I was able to move into Riga with Kuressare having only 1% damage in my game. Have you taken both Ventspils and Liepaja?

There was a change in 1.04 regarding the FOW at sea, so are you sure that you're not just misinterpreting the tile coloration?

I just checked too. I can still move into Riga after bombing that port.

[Mynok]

Yikes. Yes, I took the small ports on the coast of Latvia. I'm not even looking at tile coloration, just hitting F3 and selecting my unit in Konigsberg. When I right click on Riga...nothing happens.

I'm trying again.

[Mynok]

Ah...it's about land MPs left. My SEC divs can get to Riga fine. L corps cannot. That's who I was trying to get there.