Platoon Orders?

[Grim.Reaper]

I personally am OK with the fact the game allows you to give orders at the platoon level instead of having to micro-managing every unit, but I have some questions/concerns.

1) I order my platoon of half-tracks (by ordering the lead) to take cover in the woods. However, only 2 of my units went into the woods, leaving the third exposed. There was plenty of space in the woods for the unit to make it in. Shouldn't they all try to seek cover roughly in the same terrain as the lead?

2) In one of my games, I ordered the platoon of tanks to take cover behind some building/fences by ordering the platoon lead. The platoon lead found some great cover, but the rest of the platoon seemed to stick out like a sore thumb. Shouldn't the units find the best cover possible under the circumstances? Or do I have to micro manage each unit to make that happen?

Maybe I am not understanding the control system enough and giving the wrong orders, so any help would be appreciated.

[junk2drive]

The units do not have brains. They do not seek anything. Make sure that you have turned on the movement and target lines with the U key. When you order the commander unit to move to somewhere, you see the blue line that goes to that point. The other units in the platoon will also have blue lines to the point where they will go. If the sub unit lines aren't ending where you want them to, click that unit and give the same order then place the blue line where you want it to go.

[Grim.Reaper]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

The units do not have brains. They do not seek anything. Make sure that you have turned on the movement and target lines with the U key. When you order the commander unit to move to somewhere, you see the blue line that goes to that point. The other units in the platoon will also have blue lines to the point where they will go. If the sub unit lines aren't ending where you want them to, click that unit and give the same order then place the blue line where you want it to go.

Thanks JD. I guess what I don't understand is why have orders at a platoon level, but then still have to micro-manage all the units into a good position? Don't get me wrong, love the game, I was just thinking the platoon orders might be smarter since that is the main system to issue orders in the game.


I am sure I am just missing the concept

[junk2drive]

Platoon orders concerns the Engage or Defend stance(base orders). Move or Stay or Hold or Target is the sub order. The whole platoon must follow the base order then you can micromanage the sub order if desired.

Most of the time I don't click each unit and adjust the final destination point. You will also find that trees and woods are not walls. You will get shot at from the other side of the woods. The enemy can see through gaps in the trees.

[Gerry4321]

Hello:

What would be very nice in future releases is if you could click on the blue line of the sub-unit and tweak its destination, rather than issuing them an order for themselves. Just a thought.

Gerry

ORIGINAL: junk2drive
... If the sub unit lines aren't ending where you want them to, click that unit and give the same order then place the blue line where you want it to go.

[junk2drive]

You can click the unit, click the floating icon, click the HUD icon, or use the > key to cycle. It might be difficult to click on the line itself.

[Redmarkus5]

I think he means, click on the blue line to adjust the line - edit the route, way point or whatever. If I recall correctly, you could do that in CMBB?

[junk2drive]

In CM IIRC there was a cube at the end of a line and you could click it to reposition the line. Waypoints mid line were pyramids and could be moved the same way.

Play the game a while and see if you think that fine tuning end points will really make a difference in playing the game.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Gerry

Hello:

What would be very nice in future releases is if you could click on the blue line of the sub-unit and tweak its destination, rather than issuing them an order for themselves. Just a thought.

Gerry

ORIGINAL: junk2drive
... If the sub unit lines aren't ending where you want them to, click that unit and give the same order then place the blue line where you want it to go.

That's a good idea. we looked at a few other things that might make it into the next game in the series to make it even easier to issue platoon orders.

thanks
Rick

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

In CM IIRC there was a cube at the end of a line and you could click it to reposition the line. Waypoints mid line were pyramids and could be moved the same way.

Play the game a while and see if you think that fine tuning end points will really make a difference in playing the game.

It wasn't me asking for the feature although I think it's a 'nice to have'. I would be more interested in a change to the platoon orders mechanism so that all of my units don't match the platoon leader's move by default. Maybe an order+ctrl key option for 'all to obey' and no control key for single unit orders?

Also, It would be really good if I could order units to follow in road column.

[junk2drive]

There is an order for formation and the choices are line, column and wedge.

We get a lot of requests to get rid of the PCO order system and make it like CM order system. This isn't CM.

[Pillar]

So anything CM gets right you need to avoid?

His comment was reasonable.  Why have a platoon order system that doesn't do anything other than the one CM has?  All it does is force the player to create a platoon movement order to set unit stance (i.e.,Advance, Engage, Defend) and almost all the time, that will be a movement order that needs to be canceled for all the units one at a time.  I think he has a point. 

I found myself having the same thought while playing the demo.  Why not have a stance toggle rather than require movement orders to be issued to the entire platoon? 

It's not a major issue.   The best player friendly UI is should be worth talking about.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Pillar

So anything CM gets right you need to avoid?

His comment was reasonable.  Why have a platoon order system that doesn't do anything other than the one CM has?  All it does is force the player to create a platoon movement order to set unit stance (i.e.,Advance, Engage, Defend) and almost all the time, that will be a movement order that needs to be canceled for all the units one at a time.  I think he has a point. 

I found myself having the same thought while playing the demo.  Why not have a stance toggle rather than require movement orders to be issued to the entire platoon? 

It's not a major issue.   The best player friendly UI is should be worth talking about.

No, I don't think that's what J2D meant. He is/was quite a fan of CMx1 as I recall.

It's more of a point of view, the game was originally conceived to be played at a company level, giving orders to platoons, and being able to tweak things at the squad level. It's evolved since that, but it still has a slighlty higher formation focus I think.

That said, we are planning on redoing and significantly improving the command/order structure for the next game in the series. And we welcome comments on things that might improve the experience.

Thanks!
Rick

[Erik Rutins]

Hi guys,

Making platoon orders "smarter" and easier is definitely on our to do list for the next major release. I hear you on that. For the time being, the vehicles and squads try to keep to the same spacing and formation, so with all the target and movement lines on, if you know that you can work out where they will end up based on the movement order you give. Adjustable waypoints and rubberbands as in CM would be a nice addition, but not easy.

Regards,

- Erik

[Mad Russian]

Let's think about what platoon orders mean.

It means the platoon will move forward in the same formation it's in now. So if your units are in line abreast they will advance in line abreast to a point equal in the formation to how they started the move.

You can use the "U" hotkey to get the platoon orders to display and see where everyone will end up. If you don't like the end result of the orders set then simply give an amended order to the squad/weapons team/vehicle that's not going to end up where you want them.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Pillar]

I think he knows how to get around it by adjusting the orders each turn, but is suggesting that there might be a better way to design the UI than that.

Anyhow, didn't I see something about editing the xml and forcing CM style orders?

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Pillar

I think he knows how to get around it by adjusting the orders each turn, but is suggesting that there might be a better way to design the UI than that.

Anyhow, didn't I see something about editing the xml and forcing CM style orders?

Exactly - the existing work-around is clear. The problem is as follows:

- The default AI decision about how sub-units should execute a platoon order currently ends up taking one or more of your sub-units too far or just short of where a reasonably well trained tank crew would go.

- Since you can't just adjust the way points or end points by selecting and dragging them, you have to re-issue the order to each sub-unit.

- If the sub-unit friendly AI was better at giving platoon orders, that would be great.

- In the short term, as an alternative to working on the AI, how about giving the human player an easier to use system of fine control?

Reinventing the wheel in this regard is fine by me, as long as we get a better wheel at the end of the process. I only referred to CM because their model works reasonably well.

Constructive criticism - only your friends supply it

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

Making platoon orders "smarter" and easier is definitely on our to do list for the next major release. I hear you on that. For the time being, the vehicles and squads try to keep to the same spacing and formation, so with all the target and movement lines on, if you know that you can work out where they will end up based on the movement order you give. Adjustable waypoints and rubberbands as in CM would be a nice addition, but not easy.

Regards,

- Erik

Thanks - noted and will wait patiently

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
- Since you can't just adjust the way points or end points by selecting and dragging them, you have to re-issue the order to each sub-unit.

That's not a bad idea. While all your platoon unit's blue rubber bands were visible you could better choreograph their movement.

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
- Since you can't just adjust the way points or end points by selecting and dragging them, you have to re-issue the order to each sub-unit.

That's not a bad idea. While all your platoon unit's blue rubber bands were visible you could better choreograph their movement.

Exactamente [:D]

It would just be a matter of +U to get all the blue lines up, drag the end points, drag the way points and click Next Turn...