Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: dogancan

got it. I got three suggestions regarding the map of Turkey:

Thanks for that.
I've got 1935 & 1944 World Atlases, and I'm looking at what you've suggested compared to what the atlases show.
Bear in mind that we try not to use the localized city name, but rather English names for places, otherwise Copenhagen would be København, Warsaw would be Warszawa, Moscow would be Moskva and Cape Town would be Kaapstad.

1) For the two towns (Scudari and Panderma), old spellings are used on the map. By 1940, people were not using Panderma or Scudari anymore. So, I suggest you to change these with the contemporary spellings.
Scudari --> Uskudar 
Panderma --> Bandirma

On my 1935 & 1944 maps, Scutari is Üsküdar. From Wikipedia US article Scutari seems to be the medieval name of that place.
But from this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_exonyms, Scutari looks like it is the correct English exonym for Üsküdar. So, which one is correct, in English ?

About Panderma, on my 1935 & 1944 maps, the city is labelled Panderma, so I think I'm going to let it that way.

2) The name of a river, Kizilirmak, is shortened as Kizil. Kizilirmak means Red River, but is generally regarded a single word. So, shortening it to Kizil (i.e. red) sounds weird. Better it be Kizilirmak.

Well, we tried to write "Euphrates", and not "Euphrates River" on the river names to shorten the name. Well, in Sweden we added back "River" for "Lule River" instead of "Lule", I don't remember why, but in China I think that we did not put the Chinese word for rivers all around.
Wouldn't writing "Kizilirmak" break that rule ?
Is calling it "River Kizil" that weird ? Then, writing "Kizil" on it, being a river, is it so much weird ?

3) In Turkish spelling of Dedagach, we do not use the last 'h'.

Where is that ? Is it Dedeagach in Greece ?

Oh, and of course, in 1940, there was no ancient city of Antioch but a city very close to it: Antakya.

On my 1935 map, this city is labelled "Antioche (Antakya)", and on my 1944 map it is labelled "Antakya (Antioche)". What is best ?

[dogancan]

ORIGINAL: Froonp
On my 1935 & 1944 maps, Scutari is Üsküdar. From Wikipedia US article Scutari seems to be the medieval name of that place.
But from this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_exonyms, Scutari looks like it is the correct English exonym for Üsküdar. So, which one is correct, in English ?

Üsküdar is the correct one. I have never heard an expat to call Üsküdar as SCutari. And in most maps you will find Üsküdar not scudari.

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Well, we tried to write "Euphrates", and not "Euphrates River" on the river names to shorten the name. Well, in Sweden we added back "River" for "Lule River" instead of "Lule", I don't remember why, but in China I think that we did not put the Chinese word for rivers all around.
Wouldn't writing "Kizilirmak" break that rule ?
Is calling it "River Kizil" that weird ? Then, writing "Kizil" on it, being a river, is it so much weird ?

If it was Euphrates or any other river, it would be totally fine. No need to call it "euphrates river". But as I mentioned, the word Kizilirmak is regarded as a single word. So it is really weird to shorten the name. And more importantly, if one tries to google the word kizil to see the photos of the river, she will most probably fail to see one. So, on this point, I urge you to change the name to Kizilirmak.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

3) In Turkish spelling of Dedagach, we do not use the last 'h'.

Where is that ? Is it Dedeagach in Greece ?

It was. After the Greco-Turkish war in the early 1920s, it was given to Turkey as a war reparations. It is now a border town. But herei I am surprised the mentioning of this town on the map. Why not a big and significant city like Edirne (aka Adrianapolis) but Dedeagac?

ORIGINAL: Froonp
On my 1935 map, this city is labelled "Antioche (Antakya)", and on my 1944 map it is labelled "Antakya (Antioche)". What is best ?

I would go for the latter but it does not actually matter.

hope these comments help to your efforts.

best.

[Froonp]

From the first items, I've decided to make the following changes :

Rename Scudari as Üsküdar.
Rename Antioche as Antakya.
Rename Kizil as Kizilirmak.

ORIGINAL: dogancan

ORIGINAL: Froonp

3) In Turkish spelling of Dedagach, we do not use the last 'h'.

Where is that ? Is it Dedeagach in Greece ?

It was. After the Greco-Turkish war in the early 1920s, it was given to Turkey as a war reparations. It is now a border town. But herei I am surprised the mentioning of this town on the map. Why not a big and significant city like Edirne (aka Adrianapolis) but Dedeagac?

Well, not that I would like to lighten a Greeco-Turkish argument, but what I read tell me the the city was Greek during WW2, at least before Bulgaria invaded, and was named Alexandroupolis, so I'd rather name it like that.

As to why I did put the name on the map, it was just because it was the large town of that hex.

Edirne was put on the map, on the hex NE of there, in Turkey, on the Istanbul-Sofia railway.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here is a current screen shot (before Patrice's changes).

[dogancan]

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Well, not that I would like to lighten a Greeco-Turkish argument, but what I read tell me the the city was Greek during WW2, at least before Bulgaria invaded, and was named Alexandroupolis, so I'd rather name it like that.

As to why I did put the name on the map, it was just because it was the large town of that hex.

Edirne was put on the map, on the hex NE of there, in Turkey, on the Istanbul-Sofia railway.

You are right about dedeagac. Thanks to wikipedia, I realized that the town that was given as war reparations was karaagac (close to Edirne), not dedagac. Sorry for that.

Btw, if the town belongs to greece, it should be on the west of the Meric (Maritsa) river. So, you might consider moving the name of the town a little bit to the left so that it will look like being on the left side of the river.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: dogancan

ORIGINAL: Froonp
On my 1935 & 1944 maps, Scutari is Üsküdar. From Wikipedia US article Scutari seems to be the medieval name of that place.
But from this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_exonyms, Scutari looks like it is the correct English exonym for Üsküdar. So, which one is correct, in English ?

Üsküdar is the correct one. I have never heard an expat to call Üsküdar as SCutari. And in most maps you will find Üsküdar not scudari.

About Scutari, Harry Rowland replied to me that the naval base of Scutari was a naval base in the Crimean war and WWI.
Is he aluding to that : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scutari_Barracks
Do you know the place named as Scutari in reference for that naval base during WW2 ?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is a current screen shot (before Patrice's changes).

Here is the area after the changes.

[warspite1]

Shame to see the name Scutari go, given its significance in the Crimean War - Florence Nightingale and all that [:(]

[dogancan]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: dogancan

ORIGINAL: Froonp
On my 1935 & 1944 maps, Scutari is Üsküdar. From Wikipedia US article Scutari seems to be the medieval name of that place.
But from this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_exonyms, Scutari looks like it is the correct English exonym for Üsküdar. So, which one is correct, in English ?

Üsküdar is the correct one. I have never heard an expat to call Üsküdar as SCutari. And in most maps you will find Üsküdar not scudari.

About Scutari, Harry Rowland replied to me that the naval base of Scutari was a naval base in the Crimean war and WWI.
Is he aluding to that : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scutari_Barracks
Do you know the place named as Scutari in reference for that naval base during WW2 ?

hmm, did not know that in English 'Scutari barracks' is used as well as the 'Selimiye Barracks' ('Selimiye' for the building is initially built during the reign of sultan Selim III) to name that building.

But as is written in the wikipedia entry, in the republican period Selimiye Barracks were mostly used for non-military purposes. It has been re-used by the Turkish military only after 1950's.

Checked the web page of Turkish military forces, no info there. But relying on a few forum entries and Turkish wikipedia page of Selimiye Barracks, I am almost sure that there was no naval base in Selimiye (Scutari) Barracks during WW2.

[Extraneous]

I would like to bring to your attention the last few posts have nothing to do with "Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land".


Might I suggest moving it to one of the threads under this link.

[rkr1958]

After reading through all these in-depth unit descriptions it occurred to me that this game could also be marketed as an "encyclopedia" of the units of WW-II and to folks who have an interest in the history of WW-II but aren't, and will never be, wargamers.  Has any thought been given to that marketing slant?

[Rasputitsa]

In 'Facts about Portugal. bullet point 'Capitol' should read 'Capital'. Thanks for all the information that has been coming out about the game, you don't often see developers being this open about their work. Never played the board game, but very interested in this title. [:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

In 'Facts about Portugal. bullet point 'Capitol' should read 'Capital'. Thanks for all the information that has been coming out about the game, you don't often see developers being this open about their work. Never played the board game, but very interested in this title. [:)]

Warspite1

Isn't this the US spelling? I think the use of US or English English is dependent upon the author for that unit. The naval write-ups for example are all English English.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

In 'Facts about Portugal. bullet point 'Capitol' should read 'Capital'. Thanks for all the information that has been coming out about the game, you don't often see developers being this open about their work. Never played the board game, but very interested in this title. [:)]

Warspite1

Isn't this the US spelling? I think the use of US or English English is dependent upon the author for that unit. The naval write-ups for example are all English English.

Rob, I'm trying to standardize (standardise?) the Land Unit write-ups to American English, but sometimes I get mixed up. When I do the full proof, I'll have my dictionary open in front of me.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

In 'Facts about Portugal. bullet point 'Capitol' should read 'Capital'. Thanks for all the information that has been coming out about the game, you don't often see developers being this open about their work. Never played the board game, but very interested in this title. [:)]

Warspite1

Isn't this the US spelling? I think the use of US or English English is dependent upon the author for that unit. The naval write-ups for example are all English English.

Rob, I'm trying to standardize (standardise?) the Land Unit write-ups to American English, but sometimes I get mixed up. When I do the full proof, I'll have my dictionary open in front of me.

Warspite1

Okay Aaron. In the interests of standardisation I'm happy for you to change any Land Units that I have contributed to, in whatever way you think fit.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Warspite1

Isn't this the US spelling? I think the use of US or English English is dependent upon the author for that unit. The naval write-ups for example are all English English.

Rob, I'm trying to standardize (standardise?) the Land Unit write-ups to American English, but sometimes I get mixed up. When I do the full proof, I'll have my dictionary open in front of me.

Warspite1

Okay Aaron. In the interests of standardisation I'm happy for you to change any Land Units that I have contributed to, in whatever way you think fit.

WHAT?!?!?
You mean I'm not supposed to chop up your Naval write-ups???
But I've already done them all!!!
Just teasing. You know my rule about those. Nothing but typos get changed without talking to you first.
Actually, I don't think I've had to change any of your land write-ups. So far I've only changed headers, and mostly that means adding credit and turning abbreviations into real words (INF = Infantry), but thanks for the consent.
-----
Edit: Speaking of typos . . .

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Red Prince



Rob, I'm trying to standardize (standardise?) the Land Unit write-ups to American English, but sometimes I get mixed up. When I do the full proof, I'll have my dictionary open in front of me.

Warspite1

Okay Aaron. In the interests of standardisation I'm happy for you to change any Land Units that I have contributed to, in whatever way you think fit.

WHAT?!?!?
You mean I'm not supposed to chop up your Naval write-ups???
But I've already done them all!!!
Just teasing. You know my rule about those. Nothing but typos get changed without talking to you first.
Actually, I don't think I've had to change any of your land write-ups. So far I've only changed headers, and mostly that means adding credit and turning abbreviations into real words (INF = Infantry), but thanks for the consent.
-----
Edit: Speaking of typos . . .

Warspite1

[;)]

Aaron, where are you getting all the time for this proof reading anyway [X(] - from what I can see you are doing a ton of Beta testing, while learning the rules to the game.... and still fitting in this other stuff [&o][&o].

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Warspite1

Okay Aaron. In the interests of standardisation I'm happy for you to change any Land Units that I have contributed to, in whatever way you think fit.

WHAT?!?!?
You mean I'm not supposed to chop up your Naval write-ups???
But I've already done them all!!!
Just teasing. You know my rule about those. Nothing but typos get changed without talking to you first.
Actually, I don't think I've had to change any of your land write-ups. So far I've only changed headers, and mostly that means adding credit and turning abbreviations into real words (INF = Infantry), but thanks for the consent.
-----
Edit: Speaking of typos . . .

Warspite1

[;)]

Aaron, where are you getting all the time for this proof reading anyway [X(] - from what I can see you are doing a ton of Beta testing, while learning the rules to the game.... and still fitting in this other stuff [&o][&o].

Three answers to your question:
1. I sleep about 4-5 hours each day, no more
2. I'm on permanent disability, so I don't work a "real" job
3. It's a lot of fun for me, even the proofreading and other tasks that might seem tedious

It also helps that my closest friends are in far off lands, either due to work or doctoral field research.
-----
Edit: Also, I'm not married, and don't expect to be anytime soon. [:)]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

After reading through all these in-depth unit descriptions it occurred to me that this game could also be marketed as an "encyclopedia" of the units of WW-II and to folks who have an interest in the history of WW-II but aren't, and will never be, wargamers.  Has any thought been given to that marketing slant?

So far I have just drifted this possibility past Matrix Games. I think my last phone conversation, where I quoted Aaron's figure of 2100 pages of unit writeups, surprised them.

But really, getting the game done is just about my exclusive focus these days.

[Rasputitsa]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Red Prince


WHAT?!?!?
You mean I'm not supposed to chop up your Naval write-ups???
But I've already done them all!!!
Just teasing. You know my rule about those. Nothing but typos get changed without talking to you first.
Actually, I don't think I've had to change any of your land write-ups. So far I've only changed headers, and mostly that means adding credit and turning abbreviations into real words (INF = Infantry), but thanks for the consent.
-----
Edit: Speaking of typos . . .

Warspite1

[;)]

Aaron, where are you getting all the time for this proof reading anyway [X(] - from what I can see you are doing a ton of Beta testing, while learning the rules to the game.... and still fitting in this other stuff [&o][&o].

Three answers to your question:
1. I sleep about 4-5 hours each day, no more
2. I'm on permanent disability, so I don't work a "real" job
3. It's a lot of fun for me, even the proofreading and other tasks that might seem tedious

It also helps that my closest friends are in far off lands, either due to work or doctoral field research.
-----
Edit: Also, I'm not married, and don't expect to be anytime soon. [:)]

......................separated by a common language. [:)]