1.04.11 Klydon (Axis) vs Hfarrish (Soviet) No Hfarrish please

[Klydon]

It has been a busy RL week for me, so I have not made much progress on the turn at this point. (First time I have had a chance to load the game up in several days and I have to go run some errands before getting back to work).

News flash from Berlin!! Leningrad has fallen!!

The corpse of General-Mayor Tolbukhin was found in the overrun HQ of the 7th Independent army.

Finnish troops have been seen marching through the square. German reports that some Russian troops continue to hold out along the coast, but expect them to surrender in the next week or so.

Reports of Finnish troops attacking Russians south of the Svir river came as a surprise to most neutral observers who thought that Finland's limited war aims prevented them from engaging Russian troops this far south. When questioned, the Finnish government had no comment.

[TulliusDetritus]

Now go for Moscow [:)] From the screenshots he is leaving a lot of space between your forces and his [&:] Maybe because of the new buildup rule thing? As if that was going to save the Red Army!

So, will you try to grab Moscow as well?

Tolbukhin is a top ace. It's a good thing your assassins terminated him

[Klydon]

Ask and ye shall receive! [:)]

This screen shot is a combined AGN/AGC shot because both are becoming intertwined.

Leningrad falls this turn (I was really surprised because I thought it would take another turn to clean it out). The assault started with a 5 division attack (2 divisions on the same side of the river, 3 across) against Pavlovo from the 18th army. Next, an attack was made into Kolpino, finishing the tank division there. Some infantry advanced and a attack was made on Leningrad itself which carried the day. Next, an attack was made into the port hex, clearing the way for LVI panzer corps. An infantry unit moved up and displaced 7th Independent HQ, killing the General. LVI panzer moved in and proceeded to take North Leningrad. A weak attack was made against Pushkin, but it worked. The Finns cleaned up the border troops and joined the Germans in the celebration of capturing Leningrad. (I hope I got the order correct on all that. [;)] ).

The Finns south of the Svir river punt some Russian rearguards and get next to the railroad to at least keep these divisions from leaving so soon. Unfortunately, I can't do much about the guys in the middle and I am sure they will get railed out this turn to go defend Moscow or some other more important place.

16th Army streams SE towards Vyshny Volochek. I don't get much done with attacks, but enough to get the thin line of defenders out of the way, including off the rough hex. (There is a small bottle neck here, but after that, its not too bad). 2 panzer corps also move up as well. 3rd Motor division comes down from the north from the port and flips most of the territory close to the Russian line that will allow infantry to close up next turn if the Russians stick around. XXXXI panzer uses HQ buildup to gas up for the next phase. LVI panzer moves down from the Leningrad area to back up the other two panzer corps headed SE. Elements of 18th army also move SE for the next phase of the campaign.

In the center, the Smolensk pocket is liquidated. With the Russians giving ground and being so close to Moscow, the German General staff has decided to at the very least put some serious pressure in the direction of Moscow. Infantry from 4th army, 9th army, 2nd panzer and 3rd panzer all move towards the line between Rzhev and Vyazma. 2nd Army infantry also cuts around to flip territory and move up. 2nd Panzer group moves its panzers to the NE up by Rzhev. XXXXVII panzer uses HQ buildup this turn as the tanks are almost empty. This sets up an obvious pincer move to meet between AGN and AGC to the north and west of Moscow. It is not certain the Germans will do this since the Russians have been retreating and with such an obvious move, the German High Command expects the Russians to pull back in this area. Vyazma is captured and some holes punched in the fort line in the direction of Moscow.

Further south, the Germans go with more of a picket line and flip as much territory as they can. Nothing really important here and both sides appear to have weak forces.

[Klydon]

Turn 11 end AGS.

AGS was not able to match the success of the other two army groups this turn, but progress was made. In the area east of Kiev, as much territory was converted as possible and a few surprises missed by air recon found. The general action here was movement along the river to the east. It was hoped a pocket could be formed to trap the Russians along the river and just behind D town, but just too many Russians and not enough gas. That and III panzer corps is fairly ineffective at the moment due to losses and fatigue. XXXXVI panzer and 6th army are close enough to support a renewal of the drive, but I expect the Russians along the river to be long gone.

East of D and Z Town, holes are punched in the Russian river/fort line for future exploitation. Additional infantry gets over the river this turn to help out for next turn, but the Axis forces in this area are fairly weak.

Not shown in the screen shot is the capture of Kerch. Elements of XXX corps are headed back up north to support the drive along the shores of the Sea of Azov.

[Klydon]

Turn 11 end losses.

In terms of creating losses, this was one of my best turns in a long time with the liquidation of the Leningrad pocket. The number of units destroyed is inflated because of a good number of support units were included in the count. Still, I will take inflicting 200K casualties a turn all day long. To this point, Russian artillery casualties have been nearly 50%. Both sides have been hammered in the tank department.

I still need to continue to create pockets where I can. I also am getting to the point of pressuring a lot of Russian industry again be it in the south (not as much pressure) or Moscow. I won't be getting either one in a turn or two, but both are absolutely threatened before the bad weather sets in. Getting them is another thing. [:D]

[Klydon]

Turn 12 start. September has arrived.

Have a good turn and then have the Russians screw it up. Hfarrish launched 5 counter attacks this turn, exclusively against mech type units. All were successful and caused varying amounts of casualties against already hurting units. Way it goes and I knew it was a matter of time, but at this stage of the game, not much a German is going to do about it if they are trying to catch an enemy that is retreating in most places. The battle sites are cut and paste in, so it doesn't show recon activity, etc.

This shot is the AGN/C area after recon but before anything else has moved. Shocker that he moved units out of the Valdi hills for the most part. As much as I reconned, still hard to believe he got every single unit out up by the Finns, but that is what appears to be the case. The big T-34 factory in Kharkov got moved out this turn. The armaments and aircraft plant are still there. Stalino area is still loaded as is Moscow. Even more curious is that the Kalinin industry is still there and the rail lines going into Kalinin are very vulnerable. The northern line is already cut and the southern one is not very far. The town NE of Bryansk still has a heavy industry in it.

[Klydon]

AGS turn 12 start. Well, I got him off the rest of the river. Just piles of Russians everywhere it seems like. My infantry isn't in good shape and the panzers are in worse shape for the most part. Still, opportunity abounds. No real chances for an encirclement this turn I think. I will sort of play it by ear and perhaps rest the panzers. The troops will likely start perking up with the rail heads getting closer. I should almost be to the river south of Kiev this turn and will be SE of Krivoi Rog.

[Klydon]

Production and OOB for turn 12 start. Manpower and armaments are still doing ok for the most part. Tanks? [:D]

[Klydon]

I went back and looked into the industry. So far, the tally is 24 Heavy Industry and 21 Armaments. The Heavy industry is not terrible, representing 10% of what the Russians start with. Armaments is about 6%. Obviously if I want to hurt the Russians bad long term, I will need a couple of good turns here to bag some more industry because there is no way he is getting everything out that I threaten at the moment. Just need to make good on some of the threats. [:)]

[Klydon]

Turn 12 end. AGN and AGC area. 16th army with some help from 18th army and 2nd army, break open the front for PG4 to advance. The two PG3 panzer corps were more of a decoy than anything to make sure the Russians pulled back. I had no intention at all of sending them north since I am trying to get PG4 down to the Moscow area. PG3 panzers do some attacking, but retire down towards Vyazma to await developments (and potentially provide the southern part of a pincer movement either to link up with PG4 or PG1/2). In the mean time, the infantry grinds forward and Rzhev falls as well. The Finns go as far as they can. If he wants to give me all this territory, fine with me. More to give back later (or more for him to take later as the case may be). Unfortunately I did not get to the Kalnin rail line, so he can evac it if he wants. Vyshny, Torhzok, and Kalinin appear to be fairly well defended and they are all on the target list for the Germans to take.

[Klydon]

Turn 12 AGS end.

Not exactly the results I am looking for to a point. Small pocket that probably won't hold and will result in my panzers getting smacked around some more, but it will take out the bulge in the line to a point and I should be able to reseal it and then clean it up. D Town is isolated and progress is made towards Stalino, although there isn't a lot of steam behind it. The rail heads are starting to catch up.

I do some reorganizing of HQs and such. 4th and 9th army are now at the limit (instead of 9th being over by a fair amount). I have also made room in the south for the two panzer divisions coming in. They will be joining PG3 and hopefully provide a needed shot in the arm for the panzers in this area. This should bring the panzer strength back up to 5 corps worth.

I also made an error leaving the 22nd air landing division in the Crimea. Stupid to send it towards Kerch in the first place. I need all the elite divisions I can get up facing the Russians, so I am in the process of exchanging it with another division, but in the mean time, a turn has been lost.

Russians lose another 100k worth of troops this turn. Closing in on the 2.5 million mark, but it needs to be higher. I need that closer to 4 million, but the way Hfarrish is going about his business, it isn't going to happen before winter.

[Klydon]

Turn 13 Start. Hfarrish is quick to get the turn back to me as usual. Nothing really shocking. He went 4-5 on counter attacks in the south to break open the small pocket I had made (Attacks not shown because I forgot to mark them). Maps shown are after most recon is done.

Where do I start at this point? I think the Germans just can't afford to make very many mistakes and unfortunately, I have been making them lately. Nothing perhaps huge at face value, but it adds up. My panzer forces are pretty battered at this point. The issue I run into is with Hfarrish's tactics. Essentially, I get a wall of Russians, which the infantry tries to wack and then the panzers go in. The issue is I can't get any depth to the penetration and meet up with another pincer for the most part. Even if I do, there are always plenty of Russians around to wack most anything I try. Overall, I am just shocked at the amount of Russian units in play. I know they have a lot (I should know, but when I play the Russians, it never seems like I have this many). At any rate, I can have cheese with my wine later.

This turns feature sees two of AGN's panzer corps with just nothing in the tanks and of course, they are beyond where I could do a HQ build up to fill them up. I will move them towards the SE as I can and plan on flying nothing out of the Luftwaffe AGN stuff. After that, its going to be load up with as much gas as the planes can carry and hope for the best. If I can get them down by Torzhok or VV along with some trailing infantry, I can perhaps scare him with a threatened encirclement meeting with a drive from the SW. The terrain sucks in the area, but oh well. As you can also see, my opponent has been running for the hills away from the Finns. I think he is on the line he intends to hold and to be honest, I don't blame him for giving up the ground. I will flip as much of it as possible, but I don't really see the Finns playing much of a role at this point.

What I should have done instead of moving up LVI panzer corps is to rail it around to AGC. I did that with a corps of infantry from the 18th army, so they will be joining in the drive on Moscow soon. Will have to chalk this one up as a "should have", especially given the gas situation.

Some of the Kaluga industry got moved out, but the Kalinin industry is still there. I will have to give it some consideration, but I may try to get there. 8 Armaments points are a lot and that should put Germans uncomfortably close to Tula as well with its huge pile of armaments. If nothing else, I need him to move those plants out so it will at least affect his production.

Getting most of the Valdi hills to flip without a fight was nice I have to admit.

*Edit* The Germans lose their first commander. General Felber of the 13th Corps in 9th Army. Solid commander, but nothing special.

[Klydon]

Turn 13 AGS.

He broke the pocket and I expected that. The good news is the retreats saw the panzer corps stay together on their respective "sides" of the pocket, so none are really sucking on movement points compared to the rest. Just endless Russians here for as far as the eye can see with little hope of doing anything earth shattering, although I get closer to Stalino and Kharkov. I am tempted to send my reserve panzer corps here to help spice up the action. The other spot to send them would be AGC since the rail head is very close to the front. Down here, I have CC issues as it is if I were to put them with any AGS units. I did set up two spots in the second panzer corps I have down here from PG2 (It currently has 1 infantry and 1 cav unit in it)

[Peltonx]

Looks like you have time for one more good push,your infantry are at the front. Not sure I would push for Moscow. I consider straightening your lines and digging in so you have atleast 3 rows deep of level 3 forts.

Hes only got 4 million which is ok, not sure what you forsed him to pull and what you have bagged. Even if you don't get allot of industry, if hes forsed to move it it be off line most of the winter anyways. He is low on guns and tanks so winter shouldn't be to bad.

You seem low on tanks, no big deal as long as you only use mech units for plugging holes.

Pelton

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Overall, I am just shocked at the amount of Russian units in play. I know they have a lot (I should know, but when I play the Russians, it never seems like I have this many).

Hehe, I have exactly the same feeling! [;)]

[saygame]

At long last, other than Leningrad, he has offered you a bigger pocket opportunity around Sumy from his pocket breaking counterattack. Here's when you may be able to create an even bigger pocket as he lunges forward and has thined out his flanks. As you observed, your panzers have sufficient movement to accomplish this. Do they and the infantry have the strength after you bring forward your infantry?

Or you may want to stay focused on industrial destruction. Tough choices.

[Klydon]

Its sort of tough to go for the pocket in the south, although that was sort of the plan when I did this. Kharkov only has the SU-2 factory left in it, so it is not nearly the priority it was. The Stalino area is still loaded however. RL has been busy lately, so I am still in the planning stages of the turn plus I have some extra considerations to plan for over the next couple turns since mud is coming up soon. I will try to get some stuff posted on what I consider some of my options and have a discussion on it.

I know I never really posted the overall campaign strategy at the start, but basically most of this has been planned (some good and bad has come of it). One of the things I have mentioned is German players seem to play without much of a plan for most of the 41 campaign. What are their main objectives? What happens as things go along, etc? The drive to the SE of Leningrad was planned from the start of the campaign if I had sufficient time before mud. (A pincers movement was planned to go behind the Valdi Hills and meet AGC in order to clean out the Valdi Hills). If there had not been time, PG4 would have been pulled out to rest and refit in Germany. Same for 18th army. 16th Army would come in the line between the Finns and 2nd Army. I had originally planned on a "battle for Moscow" for 1942, because I never dreamed I would get this far in the center with just two panzer corps. I have and Moscow is close at hand. I don't even care if I hold it through the winter. The important thing is to trash it for the manpower damage, force the rail hit and also either knock out industry or cause it to be moved and taken off line.

In retrospect, I would have tried to do less damage with the panzers earlier (fewer attacks), cracked the Dnepr in the south sooner rather than trying for a big encirclement in the river bend that took a couple of turns to clean out and also continue attacking east with the panzer corps in the south instead of sending most of it into the Crimea. (I still would have sent one unit down to flip territory to Sevastopol as it took far fewer turns to take out the Crimea than if I had tried it with infantry alone). Not to say the Crimea won't be a pita for me over the winter, but I like my situation better than what may Germans face with attacks coming out of the Crimea and having to deal with the Crimea in 1942. In theory, my lines should be shorter, but we shall see.

Overall, I am fairly happy with what is compared to my campaign plan and I am ahead of schedule territory wise in the north and center. I am behind on inflicting casualties, killing industry and my panzers are beat up more than I care to see, but things could be worse probably.

[Klydon]

Turn 13 end. Another not very good turn for the Germans. Troops are tired and most of the panzers in the south are combat ineffective except for XIV panzer east of D-Town. The AGC and AGN panzers are in not quite as bad of shape, but they are close.

The grind continues in the middle for Moscow. Issue is I am going to run out of turns before I get to Moscow before the mud shows up. Good pressure on the flanks just north and south of Moscow however. Kaluga is still loaded with industry and XXXXI made good progress getting into position between Moscow and Kalinin. More infantry has moved up to put pressure in the middle. 16th Army swings into position below the Finns while the Finns advance forward. I need to figure out what to do with the infantry armies long term. 2nd Army needs to be transferred to AGN. Originally, I was going to go 16th army, 2nd Army, 18th army and I still may. What I need to do is figure out what I am going to do to help 4th Army which isn't doing much but making minor gains here and there and it will get slaughtered as is in the winter.

I probably caught an oversight by Hfarrish as he loses a HI just NE of Bryansk. Either way, I will take it.

The panzers are set up fairly well and a lot of resupply missions were flown, so hopefully Hfarrish is having some nightmares on just where the panzers are going.

[Klydon]

Turn 13 AGS

Pocket resealed. Infantry is in not very good shape and panzers are in worse shape. I don't think he will get it broken this time, so we will clean up the pocket. I will look to pull at least 1 panzer corp back to the rail head likely next turn to rehab. The two panzer divisions and motorized division coming in are headed here. I almost debated in leaving them in Germany because they will barely get to the front and mud will be here.

Pressure going towards Stalino is not as heavy as I would like, but it just isn't in the cards. There is no way I am getting there in 1941, but we will keep wrecking Russians for as long as we can. The Rumanians line up to start on the fort line for winter. I will likely look to swing the panzers north in some encirclement in order to straighten the line up at some point, but we shall see. The issue for me is Kharkov doesn't have as much value because the industry is gone, but there is the matter of putting it out of action from a population standpoint of view and a place to winter some units. Lot of resupply missions flown this turn as well. The panzers may be tired, but they have gas at least.

I may also be looking to do a little encirclement on the salient at the AGC/AGS boundry. He has a long line of troops there, so will see what happens.

I will be looking to pull the mountain divisions out soon to rehab and be ready for winter duty. Already tossing Stugs their way.

[Klydon]

Some turn 13 end info. Fair amount of losses inflicted on the Russians this turn for only 3 divisions that surrendered. That will improve next turn with the 9 division pocket and a few other divisions that I have cut off elsewhere.

As you can see from the commanders report, the tanks are fairly shot from a CV standpoint of view. The other issue is most have gone below 85 moral, so they are not going to be as fast through enemy territory. The motorized stuff is in much better shape for the most part in the moral department. I managed to knock the Russians below 4 million again, but sooner or later, they will go over to stay.

Command points are low at the moment (been moving around some support units and divisions along with moving security units to OKH). I need to start creating some forts as well. I disbanded the last of the security HQ's. Manpower looks ok, but a spread between that and armaments is starting to appear. I will look to disband some AA company SU's to help out.

Air losses, especially transports, have been heavy, but ok considering how aggressive Hfarrish has been with the Red Airforce.