Moved to another Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108p3 updated 10 July

[Nemo121]

Wonder what the tunnel might have been used for?

Hide and seek?

Chuck Norris' secret lair?

Storing Chuck Norris' shoe collection? Yes, he DOES wear steam locomotives as shoes. Makes you fear the roundhouse kick doesn't it?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Nice pic, but that part of things I can not help with. Neither can Michael in this Patch Thread, because it's part of the map. You might try posting an appeal in the "Map, Base, Economic Issues" thread in the main AE forum where it will catch Andrew's attention and perhaps the attention of scenario modders too.

+1

[CV 2]

ORIGINAL: hades1001

ORIGINAL: CV 2

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You are missing the fact that I provided him information about supply and, more importantly, there is nothing specific about "no problem" as it provides no information about how much supply got there over how much time. Also he continues to miss the significance of the road, which moves supplies much faster.

I missed nothing.

What you seem to miss is that supply goes to units out in the middle of nowhere before it goes to units in bases. This is ass-backwards from my point of view. The supplies SHOULD move like they did, and still do in the modern world of global logistics. Distribution center to distribution center. In other words, base to base. A unit in the jungle north of Mandalay should NOT be getting supplies from Rangoon before the base at Mandalay itself does. The unit in the jungle can sit there, at full or near full supply and units in Mandalay will die as they watch the supply moving out into the jungle. Which is EXACTLY what is happening right now.

IMHO, the way it SHOULD work is a unit not in a base draws supply from the closest base. PERIOD. (ed. Closest base being defined as in supply movement points not raw distance - wanted to clarify that). If there arent supplies at that base, then someone (the player) or someTHING (the program) had better move some there. The unit in the bush should die BEFORE the unit in the base does, and the closer a unit is to a given base, the more likely it should be to get supplies from that base vs a unit further away does. In other words supplies passing through 1 unit are likely to get commadeered or outright plundered by the unit it is passing through. If you are out of ammo and/or out of food and starving, you are not going to just sit there and watch ammo trucks or sacks of rice walk right by you.

Kinda like REMFs and GRUNTs back in my day. the REMFs had all the goodies, and we got whatever they'd send us. Worked the same in WWII, I promise you.

I agree with you. The supply system is a little broke here. My troops sitting in the jungle in China and Burma are fully supplied while the closest base has no supplies at all.

Anyway, is this the problem of AE or the patch?

No its the game. It is better than it was in the beta. In early forms supply would be traced through enemy bases even, so it has gotten better. But still needs a lot of work IMHO. Never seen the code so I cant say how big a deal this would be to fix. But supply is currently being traced somehow to units outside bases in theory anyways. Could be they just said screw it and gave any unit not in a base hex max supply. (Im kidding about that btw.) Since there is a supply path currently being checked, I cant believe it would be that hard to limit the supply options to the closest base. I can see where it would be hard if not outright impossible for a base to know how much supply is needed for units outside its physical location. Also, if something like this is put in place (which I hope it is), then it should also display somewhere on the ground unit screen what the units supply base is. And if it isnt that hard for the base "to know" what units are linked to it for supply purposes, it would be nice if those units showed up on the "units at this base" display, maybe in either green (for in supply) or red (for not so much). Just my .02

[championzhao]

This is a China Sichuan 1939 map~~

[PaxMondo]

Nice map.  Where did you find it?  How about other provinces from the same time period?  Available?
 
Thanks.

[gradenko2k]

I've been thinking of reinstalling WITP-AE again, and I noticed several changes to handling the pilot pool/cap in the 1108 series of builds. Does that get rid of the bugs with pilot overflow? (or am I even thinking of the right game? Was that WITP-Original?)

[CV 2]

It was the original, but apparently it has also appeared in AE as well, although I have never gotten that far in AE to notice.

[Sardaukar]

You can now remove pilots in latest betas and free "slots". Also automatic removal of KIA pilots etc. when reaching close to pilot limit will help.

[Mistmatz]

I lost a bit track of the patching business and I'm too lazy to read through almost 30 pages of this thread.

So what's the plan for the near future? Will we see another official patch or has official support stopped and the unofficial, nevertheless highly acclaimed, ones are the route to go?

If there will be another official patch whats the ETA? Are we talking months, or are we closer than that?

[witpqs]

Michael has said that it will become official at some point, and also that he keeps finding stuff to fix. That's a process I don't want to interrupt! [:)]

A bunch of us are using the patch already (in Beta), and it is wonderful. Give it some serious consideration. The latest is called 1108m7.

[Rainer]

m7a with all due respect [;)] post #836

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Would you please tell me how fast should a Jap inf div go in this particular hex I highlighted in the pic?
And how do you do the math?

Thanks!

I think your first problem is you are confusing the AE- Secondary Road with the WitP- Trail. The screen shot shows a hex with a secondary road.

IIRC movement rates from one hex to the next is an average of the two hexes.

So assuming the other screen shot above is accurate and the movement was due west...then the movement rate per day would be 4 for the current hex + 15 for the cultivated hex = 19 /2 = 9.5 miles per day modified by disruption and fatigue among other things ...assuming move mode.

Yes that is a secondary road. The only place trails exist in the AE map data are along railway lines, where there are no adjacent roads (these "trails" represent the ability to move along the rail bed). No other trails are present in the map data, just secondary and main roads.

Just some additional info regarding movement rates: it is not be calculated as an average (at least I hope not, after providing the AE coders with the algorithms required). Movement between two hexes is the combination of two, separate, "half hex" moves. Consider the above example (half a hex of jungle then half a hex of road) to show how these approaches differ:

1) As a combination of two half hex moves, a unit moving 4 miles/day in jungle and 15 miles/day on a road would take 6 days to traverse the jungle "half hex" (23 miles of jungle) and 2 days to traverse the road "half hex" (23 miles of road) for a total of 8 days of travel. That is the correct time span.

2) If a simple average of the two movement rates were to be used instead, the average of the two movement rates, 15 and 4, would be 9.5 miles/day, and the time to cover the 46 miles (1 hex) of half jungle and half road would be 5 days instead of 8 days. Not correct.

Andrew

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: CV 2
IMHO, the way it SHOULD work is a unit not in a base draws supply from the closest base. PERIOD. (ed. Closest base being defined as in supply movement points not raw distance - wanted to clarify that). If there arent supplies at that base, then someone (the player) or someTHING (the program) had better move some there. The unit in the bush should die BEFORE the unit in the base does, and the closer a unit is to a given base, the more likely it should be to get supplies from that base vs a unit further away does.

FWIW I agree with this. There should also be limits on how much supply can move between adjacent bases, based on the supply cost of the move.

Andrew

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Rainer

m7a with all due respect [;)] post #836

Oops - thanks for catching my error! [8D]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

FWIW I agree with this. There should also be limits on how much supply can move between adjacent bases, based on the supply cost of the move.

Andrew

Andrew, basing supply solely on the closest base does not make sense, and here is why. Units moving toward the front lines or behind the front lines by any appreciable distance are certainly, IRL, going to be supplied from the base to their rear. The alternative is for supplies to move all the way forward, and then backward. In cases where units are close to the forward base that makes sense. But in cases where the unit is only a little closer, or somewhat closer to the forward base this does not make sense. The problem of course is how is the programmer to sort out which base is which in many situations. I think switching over to that motif would make things worse, not better. [8D]

BTW, with the recent Betas I have noticed that supplies flow more slowly in general, and seemingly somewhat smoother with less in the way of dead spaces (meaning bases that are starved while all nearby bases are flush).

[championzhao]

http://ishare.iask.sina.com.cn/f/11974021.html

1939 China maps

[;)]

[CV 2]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

FWIW I agree with this. There should also be limits on how much supply can move between adjacent bases, based on the supply cost of the move.

Andrew

Andrew, basing supply solely on the closest base does not make sense, and here is why. Units moving toward the front lines or behind the front lines by any appreciable distance are certainly, IRL, going to be supplied from the base to their rear. The alternative is for supplies to move all the way forward, and then backward. In cases where units are close to the forward base that makes sense. But in cases where the unit is only a little closer, or somewhat closer to the forward base this does not make sense. The problem of course is how is the programmer to sort out which base is which in many situations. I think switching over to that motif would make things worse, not better. [8D]

BTW, with the recent Betas I have noticed that supplies flow more slowly in general, and seemingly somewhat smoother with less in the way of dead spaces (meaning bases that are starved while all nearby bases are flush).

Units coming out of supplied bases have a months worth of supply within the unit itself (in the game), so "feeding" the unit is a non-issue. I dont see what your problem is with it.

If you are talking about if the unit engages in combat "as its moving toward the front" (lets say the "front" it is moving to is the India boarder near Imphal and it engages in combat in the hex north east of Mandalay). You are saying that the bullets should come from Rangoon because thats where the unit started it move weeks ago? Rather than Mandalay where it got off the trains and started moving forward?

I just want to be clear. Is this what you are saying?

Or are you saying that a unit moving to say Akyab from points south should not get their supply from Akyab until they actually get there? Again, because the unit carries enough supply with it to last a month if not in combat, I see this as a non-issue. If it does engage, then clearly the bullets it needs are going to come from the closest source, wouldnt you agree?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: championzhao

http://ishare.iask.sina.com.cn/f/11974021.html

1939 China maps

[;)]

THANKS. Great stuff.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: CV 2

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

FWIW I agree with this. There should also be limits on how much supply can move between adjacent bases, based on the supply cost of the move.

Andrew

Andrew, basing supply solely on the closest base does not make sense, and here is why. Units moving toward the front lines or behind the front lines by any appreciable distance are certainly, IRL, going to be supplied from the base to their rear. The alternative is for supplies to move all the way forward, and then backward. In cases where units are close to the forward base that makes sense. But in cases where the unit is only a little closer, or somewhat closer to the forward base this does not make sense. The problem of course is how is the programmer to sort out which base is which in many situations. I think switching over to that motif would make things worse, not better. [8D]

BTW, with the recent Betas I have noticed that supplies flow more slowly in general, and seemingly somewhat smoother with less in the way of dead spaces (meaning bases that are starved while all nearby bases are flush).

Units coming out of supplied bases have a months worth of supply within the unit itself (in the game), so "feeding" the unit is a non-issue. I dont see what your problem is with it.

If you are talking about if the unit engages in combat "as its moving toward the front" (lets say the "front" it is moving to is the India boarder near Imphal and it engages in combat in the hex north east of Mandalay). You are saying that the bullets should come from Rangoon because thats where the unit started it move weeks ago? Rather than Mandalay where it got off the trains and started moving forward?

I just want to be clear. Is this what you are saying?

Or are you saying that a unit moving to say Akyab from points south should not get their supply from Akyab until they actually get there? Again, because the unit carries enough supply with it to last a month if not in combat, I see this as a non-issue. If it does engage, then clearly the bullets it needs are going to come from the closest source, wouldnt you agree?

Best to take any discussions about design issues to a separate thread, I think.

Andrew

[asdicus]

Using 1108m7 beta in my pbm game vs japs.

if you right click on pilots in the aircraft squadron screen you used to get a list of damaged aircraft repair times etc - with this new m7 beta it just displays the list of squadron pilots same as if you left click on pilots. This was working ok up to m6 beta.