Expansion Discussion - Borders/Territory

[J HG T]

+1 from me to leaders (or race statistics) affecting bonuses inside your borders.

Oxenshtrudel makes a good point about border growth. I'm quite sure the devs have something similar in mind.

@Data
If I'm reading this correctly, it was the Yor collective. Machine race with super isolationists ability.

[Data]

Spot on, J.

[Seath]

@Data I think this slowing down was not overpowerd in CalCiv. The only OP super ability in the game was this super fast population growing by the race wich once was slaved by the Drengin ... i forgot the name of them -.-

[Data]

Making extensive use of the warp inhibitor in MOO2, any type of similar tech / ability makes me think it's OP.....I guess it's a matter of taste but it's a minor point

[ASHBERY76]

Galciv just lobbed stuff like the Yor ablility into the game just for gameplay without actaully explaining why such a thing would happen,same with many aspects of that game.I do not like that type of design in space 4X games.

[Data]

iirc i think you can configure the game so that no one can use this ability (or any other ability) if you'd like.
My question now is how much do we have to derail this thread before Erik caves in and throws us some more bones to chew? [:)]

[Evil Steve]

i was wondering whether sensor tech can define a boundary or border: in areas you dominate, your chatter is the one everyone needs to access (like flight control). If you take this a step further, free-trade agreements = access to commercial chatter (ie wherabouts of civilian craft etc), and mutual pact = access to civilian and military chatter (ie whereabouts of all craft)

advantages: adds a strategic angle to an often under-utilised tech. borders are 'tech-based' and competitive

battle of the sensors, as empires compete to control the chatter in open space? (assuming superior sensor tech can "push back" or neutralise the sensor tech of other empires)

[Data]

What happens when a base remains without the power to supply the sensors and they go down. This is not as temporary as it seems given how freighters work atm.
The same applies to ships, we'd have moving borders and even no borders when a fuel shortage occurs.
Mind you, I'd like to see chatter in this game just as I like it in SR2 but maybe instead of sensors we'd need a new component for this; a command and comm thingy maybe.

[AlPhi]

Then we get into a cypher and espionage element. Tech developments lead to improving military net encryption (even current military allies don't get to see all your military traffic) and then as a result improving decryption capabilities. Espionage is targetted on getting cypher keys, examining new communications materiel, or even comparing open comms with actual fleet movements. Abandoned ships and bases may result in new comms, cypher, and decryption technology. New roles for cheap decoy ships passing false fleet composition and intention information. All very devious - I like it!

[Data]

Excellent ideas, this should go on the wishlist AlPhi.
+1

[flap]

Hello,

Here is an example of the way an application for the game "stars!" calculated the borders (it was a third party program, so did not have any impact on gameplay). I think that is was based on population density and firepower. With the colour intensity, you can see how strong the empire is controlling the area. And the line shows where one empire gets stronger than another.
So it is based on presence, not who claimed the place first.


http://wiki.starsautohost.org/wiki/Xtreme_Borders

[Data]

Given how a normal DW game goes with colonies all over the place I think we'd see a cubistic / surreal painting [:)]

[tjhkkr]

Yeah, I am curious to see how Code Force will work this bit of sprite manipulation out, and what difference it actually makes in game play. I am all for it, but, this should be interesting.

[Gareth_Bryne]

It isn't all about sprite manipulation[:)]. Consider the ramifications borders have for trade (legal and black market) and diplomacy. For example, how far a foreign scout or warship can penetrate your borders without causing a diplomatic incident?

[Cheese]

Sorry, but was a feature list for the upcoming expansion released or something? If so can I get a link? Or is this just a discussion of a possible feature?

[Data]

The only consistent info we've got is the below from Erik

"Ok, here's something to get you started. One of the many new things in the next expansion will be some new space "creatures". This is a relatively minor, but fun part of the game to add to (and of course for those of you that don't like them, you can still turn them off). Some are organic to the galaxy, others will only appear as part of certain variable events. The basic theme with these is that they live, they move, they eat stuff (with all of those varying to some degree by creature). As part of the promotion for the expansion, we'll be running a contest to ask gamers to design a new space creature for us and the best entry (in our opinion) will get the professional treatment and be made part of the expansion release.

So feel free to get thinking so that you have a head start once that contest starts.

Ok, a few more things to think about and discuss:

- Territory / Borders
- Unique Faction / Species characteristics and abilities, including victory conditions
- Leaders / Characters for each Faction, of various types and abilities, with the ability to improve

All of these will of course be open to modders.

Regards,

- Erik "

[tjhkkr]

ORIGINAL: Gareth_Bryne
It isn't all about sprite manipulation[:)]. Consider the ramifications borders have for trade (legal and black market) and diplomacy. For example, how far a foreign scout or warship can penetrate your borders without causing a diplomatic incident?

I do not disagree with you. There is a lot of neat ramification to to having borders. And it makes having a good solid cloaking device have so many more beneficial attributes...

AND if you can steal another race's ships or even have PIRATES/Privateers go in and do the dirty work and scout out an enemy...

There are lots of neat things that can be considered here.
The sprites are an interesting programming issue with a game as fluid as DW, but game mechanics are where it is at.[8D]

[flap]

ORIGINAL: Data

Given how a normal DW game goes with colonies all over the place I think we'd see a cubistic / surreal painting [:)]

That could be quiet funky indeed...
However, the idea behind borders would be to limit that chaotic colonies spreading, isn't it ?

[Data]

Right, that would be good.

[Dhanun_slith]

I like the idea of borders, but I think it should be something more solid then some other games. I don't like the border system from Civilization and Galactic Civilization, its to organic IMO.
Borders should be established not only by the colonies, but as part of treaties with other empires too, generating areas that legitimately belongs to that civ, and not something that you can build a colony nearby and alter the entire face of the frontier.