Shameful Library

[Templer_12]

ORIGINAL: MikeGER

on Bridgepionieers

proposal for the next patch:

The intuitive way and fitting to the nice art-design of the execellent! game would be, if the pioneers enter a river hex the icon just changes into a 'layed WW2-style pontoon bridge'. So it would be clear without any explanations, even for new players. that the bridge-laying-equipment gets auto-deployed.

Another approach for the farer future cloud be, that the disembark button gets highligted too and the players can change the stance manually loosing a turn, the icon switch from pontoon to a improvised wooden bridge with better defensive stats for the pioneers maintaining it...


Regards
Mike

That's an excellent idea!!!

I vote for that! +1

[paco.g]

I agree with the idea of changing the symbol or maybe a little icon in the right corner of the unit, which shows that the pionier can now be used as a bridge.

@ Iain McNeil
If you need some help to translate the library into german, ask me It should be no problem.

[IainMcNeil]

Thanks - we actually are looking for volunteers in all languages except German unfortuantely as we have that covered, but may need help with proof reading later. Here is where you can find out more http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26007

If anyone else is interested please let us know!

[Greybriar]

The manual for Panzer General is 76 pages long and the one for Panzer General II is 127 pages long. Both have Keyboard Shortcuts on the back covers. I am not advocating copyright infringement, but due to the similarities of the games couldn't you compare either of them to Panzer Corps's to insure you didn't leave something out? That seems to me to be an easy way to go about it.

ORIGINAL: MikeGER

on Bridgepionieers

proposal for the next patch:

The intuitive way and fitting to the nice art-design of the execellent! game would be, if the pioneers enter a river hex the icon just changes into a 'layed WW2-style pontoon bridge'. So it would be clear without any explanations, even for new players. that the bridge-laying-equipment gets auto-deployed....

That is the way it works in Panzer General II. I just checked it out by playing the Suomussalmi scenario and the Bridging unit turned into a bridge when I placed it on a river hex.

I have enjoyed playing Panzer Corps thus far. Thank you for your efforts.

[Obsolete]

Can you read back your initial post....

It is possible English is not his first language.

As for the manuals, I remember the PG2 manual was done very good. Looked very professionally laid out, and written. However, it was seriously lacking many of the in-depth details of mechanics in various areas. Things of this nature had to be worked out, even reverse engineered, and then tested on the PG forums over the many years to get the whole complete understanding.

I do know however from other wargames, if the publishers try to make an in-depth manual, then people start to complain that the manual is too big, and its somehow the developers fault that the game is too complex to understand now. You simply will never please everyone.

[IainMcNeil]

We deliberately tried to cut out any excessive detail to make it appeal to the wider audience. We'll have to look for ways to get the detail in for the guys who want it.

[Javolenus]

My first impression of the game is a good one: nice graphics, interface, and a great scenario editor. That said, considering the cost of the product (I paid over £30 inc. VAT), I'd expect all essential info to be included in the manual. Having read the above posts, looks like I'll be revisiting this forum for additional info (for example, I, too, was baffled by the pontoon units in tutorial 3).

Meanwhile, if any dev teams out there need a proof reader and/or copy editor (English language only), I'm a freelance professional with (I think) reasonable rates. I mention this because, in general, games are sometimes spoiled by spelling errors and stylistic inconsistencies in the ingame text and/or manual.

Finally, I'm looking forward to playing this game some more - still working through the tutorials . . .

[Lord Zimoa]

I'd expect all essential info to be included in the manual.

There is some misunderstanding here it seems the manual and tutorial messages are complimentary, so that way we could keep the manual lighter and tried to put as much tips and tutorial messages within the game, out side the tutorial campaign, you also get tutorial tips and messages through out the whole game, tool-tips on almost every button...

We may have missed some like the bridge pioneer and we will try and correct that in future patches and add possible a Manual Errata tab in the Library.

But we really tried to get a system in for newcomers to the genre to start playing, that never played PG before, and without reading a 100 page manual.

All in all I believe we managed pretty well. And we will add things like an explanation for bridge etc... in some extra tutorial messages and/or in the manual.

Of course for the veterans who really want to dig into the game mechanics we tried to add at least those menu`s in the game, but it is hard to please both.

In my opinion, if you play through the tutorial campaign, leave the tutorial messages on and have a read through the manual that is not that thick, have a look at the Library, you will understand more than enough to enjoy and play the game.

If you want to dig deep, we are here at your service.


Cheers,

Tim aka LZ

[HansHafen]

Thanks for a great game guys. This is a scenario where you thought of 9,999 things and maybe missed one or two. Really appreciate y'all being so available to speak with and help us out etc. I hope y'all make lots of money and keep making more games! Pacific Corps, Star Corps, Fantasy Corps, Allied Corps, Peoples Corps!

[Greybriar]

ORIGINAL: Lord Zimoa

There is some misunderstanding here it seems the manual and tutorial messages are complimentary, so that way we could keep the manual lighter and tried to put as much tips and tutorial messages within the game, out side the tutorial campaign, you also get tutorial tips and messages through out the whole game, tool-tips on almost every button...

We may have missed some like the bridge pioneer and we will try and correct that in future patches and add possible a Manual Errata tab in the Library.

But we really tried to get a system in for newcomers to the genre to start playing, that never played PG before, and without reading a 100 page manual.

All in all I believe we managed pretty well. And we will add things like an explanation for bridge etc... in some extra tutorial messages and/or in the manual.

Of course for the veterans who really want to dig into the game mechanics we tried to add at least those menu`s in the game, but it is hard to please both.

In my opinion, if you play through the tutorial campaign, leave the tutorial messages on and have a read through the manual that is not that thick, have a look at the Library, you will understand more than enough to enjoy and play the game....

Perhaps I am an exception to the general rule but I don't remember reading either the Panzer General or Panzer General II manuals I mentioned above. Over 90% of the time I never read a game's manual and even then I only consult it when necessary as I would a reference book. I like to jump right into a game and learn it as I go and Panzer Corps is a game whose features will permit me to do exactly that.

Even so, I believe a game manual should contain everything about a game. Just because information is available in other forms either as a game aid or within the game itself, a game's manual is the primary source for a game and should be all-inclusive. If nothing else, that prevents someone from falling through the cracks.

[papajack]

Just want say , this game is meant to be simple and fun to play which currently I am playing almost non stop both single and multiplayer

and please do not make any adjustment that will take the FUN away


If you guys want a high detailed historical/complex there are many out there   

[mgarnett]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the tutorial text tell you that you just need to put the pioneers on a river hex? It all seemed pretty clear to me, but im going from memory so I could be wrong.

[JudgeDredd]

I have to say - it kind of confused me if I'm honest. The tutorial text did tell you what to do from what I recall - but (also from what I recall) it didn't quite work how I expected it to...in fact I found them pretty useless in the scenario

Perhaps it was something like (and I'm trying to remember) that you couldn't move them ON to a water hex - the same as other units - but had to move them TO the water hex - then the next turn move them ON to the water hex - and then they were useful...maybe I expected to move them ON to a water hex right away...now THAT would be the bonus to having such a unit...but I do think you had to move them TO the water hex...then the next turn move them ON the water hex.

It all seemed kind of pointles to me as I could just move my units next to the water hex on one turn and then move them across the next turn...there didn't seem an incredible need for the unit...there was no significant and immediate advantage - from what I recall [&:]

[mgarnett]

ORIGINAL: Hankston

Really ticked off at such a cheap library,plus in tute 3 you do not explain what to do with that bridge making unit and no talk of it in library.Sad , as you guys say you want new wargamers to play

Hi Hankston,

Generally, the tone of a response if proportional to the tone of a question or comment. From what I can tell, these Devs are only too happy to take criticism and suggestions on board. I am no Grog but if you need help, I'm happy to try to lend a hand. Remember you catch more flies with honey than you do with s%*t.

Cheers

Mark

[mgarnett]

I think it might come down to movement points. If you have enough to get on the river in one turn or only enough to get beside it and then on it the turn after. Like you, my memory is hazy, but I do remember using them.

[Toby42]

He (The Op) was just calling their kid "UGLY"!!!

[Filthy Pierre]

I said earlier that an expanded library would be good, but I realised that I misspoke. I wonder how many other people are too.

I don't really need a library. If I am really curious about how much crew or top speeds I can google it.

What I need is a glossary of units. Just a place where I can look up the relavent game stats all of the units in the game. I don't need pretty pictures or historical text. I remember Pacific General had a decent one.

I think a glossary of units would be much more helpful than a library and would not take near as much time or resources to create.

[rich12545]

I think the library is cool and well done.

[Greybriar]

ORIGINAL: mgarnett

I think it might come down to movement points. If you have enough to get on the river in one turn or only enough to get beside it and then on it the turn after. Like you, my memory is hazy, but I do remember using them.

Actually it works like this:

First turn: The Brückenpioniere is moved to a hex adjacent to the river hex. Then its turn ends.
Second turn: The Brückenpioniere moves onto the river hex. Then its turn ends. Other units can move across the bridge
Third turn: [s]After all the other units are moved across the bridge,[/s] the Brückenpioniere moves.

As you can it is a long process. It worked the same way in Panzer General and Panzer General II.

[Rudankort]

ORIGINAL: Greybriar
Actually it works like this:

First turn: The Brückenpioniere is moved to a hex adjacent to the river hex. Then its turn ends.
Second turn: The Brückenpioniere moves onto the river hex. Then its turn ends.
Third turn: After all the other units are moved across the bridge, the Brückenpioniere moves.

As you can it is a long process. It worked the same way in Panzer General and Panzer General II.

Just a small correction: other units are able to cross the river already on the second turn, as soon as the bridging unit is positioned on the river.