Since I started playing DW all designing of ships and bases I have left to AI. Now I'm getting more into designing my own ships and bases and I'm loving it.
However, I'm pretty sure some of the designs are not the most efficient ones.
What specs would you recommend for following designs:
1. Constructor
2. Small/Medium/Large Port (do you include research/armed/resort designs?)
3. Gas/Mining stations (both armed ones and cheap ones)
4. Freighters
Building blue-prints
RE: Building blue-prints
An innocent question with such a loaded answer...
In the end there are many factors weighting in each design.
So the question is, in which phase of the game, how is your revenue, what tech do you have available.
But there are a few general rules for me.
1. Constructors... I have actually 3 different designs running. Each for its own mission type.
The "standard" constructor, that is (for my usual style) lightly armed with 5-10 torps.
5 Armor, 5 shields, 4 energy collectors. If available repair bots.
That is the "main stay" of my constructors. The automatic ones. These are the ones that react when you order a station build somewhere-
The weapons are there to defend the station it is just building in a pinch.
This ship has 2 docks, 2-4 of each manufacture plant, and the obligatory single construction port.
They are just fast enough to flee from a Kraltor, and thats all.
The second variant is an escort in constructor configuration.
2 Weapons, 2 shields, 2 armor, 1 fab of each type, one construction slip, and many many engines.
That is my Fast Fleet Repair. Designed for the cases where a single ship gets its hyper drive and the repair bots destroyed but still survives.
Thanks to the escort declaration I can build them at a station, and don't have to wait until either a slot on a major planet opens up or to wait until it is build at a minor colony with a sixth of the normal construction speed and without a dependable supply on the strategic resources.
Obviously you only need 3 or 4 of them but when..., well better have them and use them manually for every job (they still can repair derelicts or build stations, they just aren't integrated into the auto mission list).
Very useful when you need 5 or 10 constructors in a hurry and can't draw a regular one away from its job.
The third variant is my mobile fleet yard, again an Escort on constructor duty (I use escorts as I don't use them for the fleets anymore. Frigates have taken over this duty for me).
This baby has 4 construction slips, a massive cargo bay, 6 docks, 4 of each fabber, and just enough speed to escape the Kraltors.
The 2 I have build of them are used to either build a small space station directly in or by the ship grave yards (I have found a system with 4 or 5 interconnecting grave yards, easily a hundred capitals and many many small fry. Boy talk about a nerds wet dream).
In this system I have 5 FFR's up and running repairing the ships.
This ships will be immediately retired for the tech.
Well, I send them to explicitly retire at my MFY, so that this ship gets the resources, and can use them for building the station without running and getting them, repeatedly disrupting the work.
But the original work I designed this class was the nearby World Destroyer. I saw that there was a graveyard in the neighborhood, and decided to use that, accelerating the rebuild of the WD.
That the system with the WD had as sole habitable Planet Korobbia made the decision only so much easier (just for the one of us who rarely see them, Korobbian Spice is one of the super luxuries, and guess how one of the planets you get it is named...).
I now have 2 of them in service, and one works still in the graveyard, while the other still works on the WD.
The ports are... more complicated.
I personally find the distinction between small, medium and large a bit lacking.
But thats life.
A small port has (as a rule) a light armament, 2 of each lab, 6 docks, 2 yards, 2 of each fabber, a resort and a hospital.
It is cheap to build, has all a small colony needs, offers 2 yard spaces in the case somebody needs a new ship or has to repair/refit an already build one.
I have my policies designed such that every new colony builds one of them first.
My medium ports have 4 of each labs, 12 docks, 4 yards, 4 of each fabber, a LR, a ship scanner and enough weapons and defenses to give a destroyer a big chunk to chew.
These puppy's replace the SSPs on colonies that begin to positively contribute to the empires income.
There are 2 variations. The medium fortress one for outlying colonies at the edge of my space, that are in a pinch far away from help.
These can stop a destroyer cold, and even fight 2 of them or a cruiser to a stand still.
The medium trade port instead gets a bit more docks (16) and less weapons. These are installed in civilized regions, dead center in my empire.
LSPs also come in two flavors.
The bigger variant of the medium fortress (roughly the same firepower and defenses, but double the docks and the yards, the research and the production) placed above mature worlds that contribute big way to my income. These systems are as a rule well supported with strategic resources, enabling major ship building (such the 8 yards), they increase the trade of these systems and so on.
Also I use a construction ship to build them above new colonies with something really important (like my 5 super luxury worlds) or the tech nexus these things.
These are the back bone of my civilian industry.
And then I have the citadels. These monsters are only build at my capital and my sector capitals.
Technically the 3 of my worlds that together have a higher revenue than the next 15 combined. (in a 89 colony empire).
Think Kuat for Star Wars (for those who can't place it, Kuat is the system where the Empire builds nearly all their fancy star destroyers, and 99% of their super star destroyers).
A citadel has a firepower of 16k or more.
It has 36 yard places.
It has 72 docks.
It has 8 of each labs.
It has a fabber of each type for each yard.
It has (of course) a LR.
A gravity well projector.
You name it, the citadel got it.
These 3 stations are the beating heart of the galactic trade.
It is rare that a yard is empty. The docks, it can happen, but seldom.
These are obviously rather expensive, but they defend my most valuable possessions.
Together with the fleet of 15-20 capital ships stationed there (all right I am a tad paranoid in this regard, but hey, thanks to being the top most researcher, the only one trading with every empire except the ancient guardians and the one with the biggest trade fleet, I can afford it).
So nobody will ever get one of these 3 worlds alive. Each of them has 20 Torak build troops, so you are welcome to try landing troops...
A citadel should be able to withstand everything below a world destroyer.
My resorts are usually either combined with a research platform (2 labs of each kind) or resource extractors (gas, mining and luxury).
They are as a rule rather strong armed and protected (stronger than the medium fortress MSPs). This is because resorts are often not in one of my systems.
They are around black holes or neutron stars.
It can happen that my war ships are operating else where when an attack comes.
So they have to be able to stand up to anything that could launch a surprise attack.
My resource extractors, well I did leave them mostly as they where given from the beginning.
Only upgrading regularly via automatics.
Then came a phase where I was victim of a dozen pirate attacks against my mining stations.
Normally not so big a thing, but the pirates attacked with multiple destroyers and my mobile defense in the region where only frigates.
Cruisers where send immediately in the area, but until they arrived I had lost 8 stations.
So I began designing my resource stations for war zone.
5-10 shields, 5 armor and of course 5 torpedo's where enough to discourage the pirates after the first try.
Even persistent pirates had a hard time to break through the defenses before my cruisers (and later capitals) arrived.
At the same time I designed a secondary large freighter, where I added a devastator pulse (including the reactor it uses mostly alone).
To not force my civilians to buy a super weapon, I then upgraded the normal large freighter, and gave the civs the choice.
Interestingly the variant without the DP has not sold even once...
After that I actually wanted the pirates to attack my large freighter for the very first time.
To bad I could see it only once.
That was the last time a pirate attacked one of my civilians.
In the end there are many factors weighting in each design.
So the question is, in which phase of the game, how is your revenue, what tech do you have available.
But there are a few general rules for me.
1. Constructors... I have actually 3 different designs running. Each for its own mission type.
The "standard" constructor, that is (for my usual style) lightly armed with 5-10 torps.
5 Armor, 5 shields, 4 energy collectors. If available repair bots.
That is the "main stay" of my constructors. The automatic ones. These are the ones that react when you order a station build somewhere-
The weapons are there to defend the station it is just building in a pinch.
This ship has 2 docks, 2-4 of each manufacture plant, and the obligatory single construction port.
They are just fast enough to flee from a Kraltor, and thats all.
The second variant is an escort in constructor configuration.
2 Weapons, 2 shields, 2 armor, 1 fab of each type, one construction slip, and many many engines.
That is my Fast Fleet Repair. Designed for the cases where a single ship gets its hyper drive and the repair bots destroyed but still survives.
Thanks to the escort declaration I can build them at a station, and don't have to wait until either a slot on a major planet opens up or to wait until it is build at a minor colony with a sixth of the normal construction speed and without a dependable supply on the strategic resources.
Obviously you only need 3 or 4 of them but when..., well better have them and use them manually for every job (they still can repair derelicts or build stations, they just aren't integrated into the auto mission list).
Very useful when you need 5 or 10 constructors in a hurry and can't draw a regular one away from its job.
The third variant is my mobile fleet yard, again an Escort on constructor duty (I use escorts as I don't use them for the fleets anymore. Frigates have taken over this duty for me).
This baby has 4 construction slips, a massive cargo bay, 6 docks, 4 of each fabber, and just enough speed to escape the Kraltors.
The 2 I have build of them are used to either build a small space station directly in or by the ship grave yards (I have found a system with 4 or 5 interconnecting grave yards, easily a hundred capitals and many many small fry. Boy talk about a nerds wet dream).
In this system I have 5 FFR's up and running repairing the ships.
This ships will be immediately retired for the tech.
Well, I send them to explicitly retire at my MFY, so that this ship gets the resources, and can use them for building the station without running and getting them, repeatedly disrupting the work.
But the original work I designed this class was the nearby World Destroyer. I saw that there was a graveyard in the neighborhood, and decided to use that, accelerating the rebuild of the WD.
That the system with the WD had as sole habitable Planet Korobbia made the decision only so much easier (just for the one of us who rarely see them, Korobbian Spice is one of the super luxuries, and guess how one of the planets you get it is named...).
I now have 2 of them in service, and one works still in the graveyard, while the other still works on the WD.
The ports are... more complicated.
I personally find the distinction between small, medium and large a bit lacking.
But thats life.
A small port has (as a rule) a light armament, 2 of each lab, 6 docks, 2 yards, 2 of each fabber, a resort and a hospital.
It is cheap to build, has all a small colony needs, offers 2 yard spaces in the case somebody needs a new ship or has to repair/refit an already build one.
I have my policies designed such that every new colony builds one of them first.
My medium ports have 4 of each labs, 12 docks, 4 yards, 4 of each fabber, a LR, a ship scanner and enough weapons and defenses to give a destroyer a big chunk to chew.
These puppy's replace the SSPs on colonies that begin to positively contribute to the empires income.
There are 2 variations. The medium fortress one for outlying colonies at the edge of my space, that are in a pinch far away from help.
These can stop a destroyer cold, and even fight 2 of them or a cruiser to a stand still.
The medium trade port instead gets a bit more docks (16) and less weapons. These are installed in civilized regions, dead center in my empire.
LSPs also come in two flavors.
The bigger variant of the medium fortress (roughly the same firepower and defenses, but double the docks and the yards, the research and the production) placed above mature worlds that contribute big way to my income. These systems are as a rule well supported with strategic resources, enabling major ship building (such the 8 yards), they increase the trade of these systems and so on.
Also I use a construction ship to build them above new colonies with something really important (like my 5 super luxury worlds) or the tech nexus these things.
These are the back bone of my civilian industry.
And then I have the citadels. These monsters are only build at my capital and my sector capitals.
Technically the 3 of my worlds that together have a higher revenue than the next 15 combined. (in a 89 colony empire).
Think Kuat for Star Wars (for those who can't place it, Kuat is the system where the Empire builds nearly all their fancy star destroyers, and 99% of their super star destroyers).
A citadel has a firepower of 16k or more.
It has 36 yard places.
It has 72 docks.
It has 8 of each labs.
It has a fabber of each type for each yard.
It has (of course) a LR.
A gravity well projector.
You name it, the citadel got it.
These 3 stations are the beating heart of the galactic trade.
It is rare that a yard is empty. The docks, it can happen, but seldom.
These are obviously rather expensive, but they defend my most valuable possessions.
Together with the fleet of 15-20 capital ships stationed there (all right I am a tad paranoid in this regard, but hey, thanks to being the top most researcher, the only one trading with every empire except the ancient guardians and the one with the biggest trade fleet, I can afford it).
So nobody will ever get one of these 3 worlds alive. Each of them has 20 Torak build troops, so you are welcome to try landing troops...
A citadel should be able to withstand everything below a world destroyer.
My resorts are usually either combined with a research platform (2 labs of each kind) or resource extractors (gas, mining and luxury).
They are as a rule rather strong armed and protected (stronger than the medium fortress MSPs). This is because resorts are often not in one of my systems.
They are around black holes or neutron stars.
It can happen that my war ships are operating else where when an attack comes.
So they have to be able to stand up to anything that could launch a surprise attack.
My resource extractors, well I did leave them mostly as they where given from the beginning.
Only upgrading regularly via automatics.
Then came a phase where I was victim of a dozen pirate attacks against my mining stations.
Normally not so big a thing, but the pirates attacked with multiple destroyers and my mobile defense in the region where only frigates.
Cruisers where send immediately in the area, but until they arrived I had lost 8 stations.
So I began designing my resource stations for war zone.
5-10 shields, 5 armor and of course 5 torpedo's where enough to discourage the pirates after the first try.
Even persistent pirates had a hard time to break through the defenses before my cruisers (and later capitals) arrived.
At the same time I designed a secondary large freighter, where I added a devastator pulse (including the reactor it uses mostly alone).
To not force my civilians to buy a super weapon, I then upgraded the normal large freighter, and gave the civs the choice.
Interestingly the variant without the DP has not sold even once...
After that I actually wanted the pirates to attack my large freighter for the very first time.
To bad I could see it only once.
That was the last time a pirate attacked one of my civilians.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
-
feelotraveller
- Posts: 1040
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:08 am
RE: Building blue-prints
ORIGINAL: MadMcAl
An innocent question with such a loaded answer...
In the end there are many factors weighting in each design.
So the question is, in which phase of the game, how is your revenue, what tech do you have available.
snip
So true.
There is also your play style and strategic approach. I never put any armour/shields/weapons on a colony ship (waste of time, money, resources, IMO) but that means that I have to be very careful to protect and manage them. Other players load them up so that they can function as warships. I know what I like/think, so do the other players... what approach do you reckon works (for you)? I'm not sure there is a best here since we do not do mulitiplayer, and if we did I would take a very different approach...
Really I recommend you play around and find out what works with your style of game. Every game I try something different and sometimes designs I thought would last forever get discarded. As an example: I had a start of game (beginning tech) explorer which I thought was the bees knees until last game where I realized that although it was good I was really using it to fulfill dual roles and hence that a lot of the time I was paying for components I was not using. Now I have two different early game explorer designs and save myself some much needed (at that time of the game) money. I very much doubt that this is the end of my early game explorer evolution...
-
Gelatinous Cube
- Posts: 696
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:34 am
RE: Building blue-prints
Maybe I'm playing the wrong way, but it seems rather easy to slip your colony ships in without escorts, armor/armament, or even paying too much attention. Expansion Planner + Quick response times whenever something does come up seems to work fine.
I also, however, tend to colonize very fast. My first priority most games (depends on what I'm going for) is to bum-rush marshy swamp/continental/desert/ocean and grab every peice of habitable land I can. It'd be easy to take the whole galaxy this way, and numbers would probably overcome the lack of control, but I usually just want a very specific corner of the galaxy, and don't like sharing any of my living space with other colors. [8D]
I also, however, tend to colonize very fast. My first priority most games (depends on what I'm going for) is to bum-rush marshy swamp/continental/desert/ocean and grab every peice of habitable land I can. It'd be easy to take the whole galaxy this way, and numbers would probably overcome the lack of control, but I usually just want a very specific corner of the galaxy, and don't like sharing any of my living space with other colors. [8D]
-
MartialDoctor
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:01 am
RE: Building blue-prints
I personally don't put any arms on my mining stations at all. The only thing they'd be able to hold off are small pirate raids and you can just buy off the pirates if they attack an undefended station. Any sort of attack by an opposing empire is not going to be stopped by an armed mining station (unless you were to really beef it up; which I'm not even sure is possible as I haven't tried).
For stations, I tend to make variants. Medium and Large stations are all pretty high up defense wise as I only put them at more important planets; they all include research stations and all the works. Thus far, I have used two variants for small stations. One has everything and has a decent amount of defense. The other lacks research stations and the defense is much lower. The latter is for less important worlds but ones in which I still want to be able to trade and keep the population happy.
But, yes, money is very important in determining how nice you can make your stations.
For stations, I tend to make variants. Medium and Large stations are all pretty high up defense wise as I only put them at more important planets; they all include research stations and all the works. Thus far, I have used two variants for small stations. One has everything and has a decent amount of defense. The other lacks research stations and the defense is much lower. The latter is for less important worlds but ones in which I still want to be able to trade and keep the population happy.
But, yes, money is very important in determining how nice you can make your stations.
RE: Building blue-prints
Hm, you can build space ports with construction ships? Never thought of that. What size can the designs be? It would be very handy to get space ports on new colonies a bit outside good supply range.ORIGINAL: MadMcAl
LSPs also come in two flavors.
The bigger variant of the medium fortress (roughly the same firepower and defenses, but double the docks and the yards, the research and the production) placed above mature worlds that contribute big way to my income. These systems are as a rule well supported with strategic resources, enabling major ship building (such the 8 yards), they increase the trade of these systems and so on.
Also I use a construction ship to build them above new colonies with something really important (like my 5 super luxury worlds) or the tech nexus these things.
If I run manual design, I am a bit more simple.
Some standard construction ship. Upgrade the default with new tech or something. Let the AI run them, grab one if critical need arises. Damaged military ships are either dropped from fleet and left for the AI to repair if it feels like it, or scrapped to avoid the AI from wasting time on them. Damaged explorers in dangerous lands are always scrapped.
MSP and LSP are mostly like the AI makes them. But maybe more pain. I don't design often and have not bothered to make the low/high arms version to serve trade. LSP for the big guys with lots of revenue, MSP for the somewhat big guys. Always long range scanner.
Small space ports are made a bit smaller. I could imagine making a more armed one for exposed colonies, but I would probably just drop a medium instead. I can keep two versions around, one with and one without a long range scanner. Some colonies need a scanner to cover its surrounding, other colonies are well covered by other scanners.
The fun thing is that you can do this so many ways, as advanced and optimized as you want. It is all about what you think is most fun.
As for lots of docks? I usually fail to see long queues outside my colonies, so more docks don't seem important. A rare resource colony may have that issue, but I build a spaceport way over its status for protection anyways.
RE: Building blue-prints
When you build them on a planet there is no size limit (I actually build one of my citadels that way, and these suckers scratch the 6k size units).
Also, the number of docks is important especially in the early phases.
And when you prepare for war.
Well, any time you need to build massive amounts of ships.
A freighter transports one resource most of the time.
2 sometimes, 3 rarely.
So to get all 16 strategic resources into your port you need 8 to 16 ships.
Also often when they carry more than one resource, one of them is a luxury.
And if you build a capital ship or two (especially after you have reached the 1.5k size limit) needs massive amounts of resources.
A single capital can take the transport capacity of dozens of freighters.
Also think about it that the ports not only supply the planet they are build on.
They form a trade network.
Often the ships from a different region or empire come to your port and buy the resources.
That effectively ties up 2 docks (at different times).
/Edit
Forgot another important factor for many docks.
To refuel a ship has to dock.
So you should design your gas mining stations with many docks as well, as they allow your fleets to refuel way faster (it makes quite a difference for a 15-ship fleet with attached 10 troop transports) if there are 2 docks they can use to refuel or 6, or 10.
Also, the number of docks is important especially in the early phases.
And when you prepare for war.
Well, any time you need to build massive amounts of ships.
A freighter transports one resource most of the time.
2 sometimes, 3 rarely.
So to get all 16 strategic resources into your port you need 8 to 16 ships.
Also often when they carry more than one resource, one of them is a luxury.
And if you build a capital ship or two (especially after you have reached the 1.5k size limit) needs massive amounts of resources.
A single capital can take the transport capacity of dozens of freighters.
Also think about it that the ports not only supply the planet they are build on.
They form a trade network.
Often the ships from a different region or empire come to your port and buy the resources.
That effectively ties up 2 docks (at different times).
/Edit
Forgot another important factor for many docks.
To refuel a ship has to dock.
So you should design your gas mining stations with many docks as well, as they allow your fleets to refuel way faster (it makes quite a difference for a 15-ship fleet with attached 10 troop transports) if there are 2 docks they can use to refuel or 6, or 10.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
-
feelotraveller
- Posts: 1040
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:08 am
RE: Building blue-prints
@ GelatinousCube. You don't find pirates at independent worlds? Or space creatures in the system (oh ardilus I love you...)?
It is pretty infrequent but a colony ship is a major investment, and its cargo is very important.
@ MadMcAl. Are you sure you are not confusing star bases with space ports? Assuming you are not, how do I get a constructor to build a spaceport? They never appear in the build menu for me.
It is pretty infrequent but a colony ship is a major investment, and its cargo is very important.
@ MadMcAl. Are you sure you are not confusing star bases with space ports? Assuming you are not, how do I get a constructor to build a spaceport? They never appear in the build menu for me.
RE: Building blue-prints
I agree on the refueling problem. Once I get large fleets, I usually use resupply ships, though. In multiples once I wield many proper fleets.
But 15 ship fleets, with 10 attached troop transports? We got different fleet philosophy
My troop transports are in their own fleets, and arrive after the fighting ships. When I muster for war, they can refuel in a different system than the fighters.
And I don't think I ever used a 15 ship fleet... Apart from some special cases with silly AI designer only making underpowered destroyers available. And in those games custom designs are not available anyways.
I seem to like 10 ship fighting fleets. That are beefed up as tech and wealth is available.
6 cruisers
8 cruisers
10 cruisers
8 cruisers, 2 capitals
6 cruisers, 4 capitals
4 cruisers, 6 capitals
You get my drift? Sometimes I need to kill something too big for such a fleet. At this stage resupply ships are in action, and the fleets can prepare at separate fuel points, and gather in a system nearby to target when done. Multi select the bunch - attack.
I have said I want two levels of fleet organization - at least. I guess you can see why
The silly AI designer. No torpedoes on destroyers, no cruisers, powerful Zenox fleet with shields that 20 destroyers could not scratch. One wrong calculation of firepower. And 167 destroyers split in two fleets, refueling on two resupply ships in the same cloud.
My computer and Distant Worlds was not capable of handling that scenario, they could not scratch anything [:D]
But 15 ship fleets, with 10 attached troop transports? We got different fleet philosophy
My troop transports are in their own fleets, and arrive after the fighting ships. When I muster for war, they can refuel in a different system than the fighters.
And I don't think I ever used a 15 ship fleet... Apart from some special cases with silly AI designer only making underpowered destroyers available. And in those games custom designs are not available anyways.
I seem to like 10 ship fighting fleets. That are beefed up as tech and wealth is available.
6 cruisers
8 cruisers
10 cruisers
8 cruisers, 2 capitals
6 cruisers, 4 capitals
4 cruisers, 6 capitals
You get my drift? Sometimes I need to kill something too big for such a fleet. At this stage resupply ships are in action, and the fleets can prepare at separate fuel points, and gather in a system nearby to target when done. Multi select the bunch - attack.
I have said I want two levels of fleet organization - at least. I guess you can see why
The silly AI designer. No torpedoes on destroyers, no cruisers, powerful Zenox fleet with shields that 20 destroyers could not scratch. One wrong calculation of firepower. And 167 destroyers split in two fleets, refueling on two resupply ships in the same cloud.
My computer and Distant Worlds was not capable of handling that scenario, they could not scratch anything [:D]
-
Gelatinous Cube
- Posts: 696
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:34 am
RE: Building blue-prints
ORIGINAL: feelotraveller
@ GelatinousCube. You don't find pirates at independent worlds? Or space creatures in the system (oh ardilus I love you...)?
All the time. The best solution is to make sure you have a large cash reserve before colonization, and to colonize as many nearby worlds as feasibly possible. Pirates are paid off easily-- just double click the message and look at the pirate ship to see which faction is attacking you. Then pay them off. Only once or twice have pirates still attacked anyway.
Space monsters are another story. I build lots of escorts and frigates and leave them on auto, and let them auto-form small strike forces. They tend to escort colonizers effectively, and if the monster doesn't kill the colony ship and there are no escorts, the ship almost always gets away, and then the AI fleets go secure the system, and then I either get a pop-up suggestion to send the now "spare" ship to colonize that or another world, or I use the expansion planner to send that ship or a new one into the now secured system.
Colonizing is very easy in this game. Through fast and effective colonization and careful diplomacy, you can get a massive edge on all your neighbors. The only reason I think it's fair is that I'm hopeless at war, and rarely get to effectively take advantage of the large empires I build.
RE: Building blue-prints
If you make some harsh setup options, you can't afford a lot of colonizers early, and you have no spare cash to buy off pirates at a whim...
Not that you can't colonize, but you need to prioritize. If you have multiple colonies that can build colony ships, it is not early game anymore. Just early-ish.
Independent colonies can have swarms of pirates present. In early game I send fleets to help, late game I just send colonizers and try to pay some attention to whether they succeeded or not. Mostly they are just fire and forget. A lot will fail because the AI got there first, and such things.
Not that you can't colonize, but you need to prioritize. If you have multiple colonies that can build colony ships, it is not early game anymore. Just early-ish.
Independent colonies can have swarms of pirates present. In early game I send fleets to help, late game I just send colonizers and try to pay some attention to whether they succeeded or not. Mostly they are just fire and forget. A lot will fail because the AI got there first, and such things.
-
Gelatinous Cube
- Posts: 696
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:34 am
RE: Building blue-prints
ORIGINAL: Bingeling
If you make some harsh setup options, you can't afford a lot of colonizers early, and you have no spare cash to buy off pirates at a whim...
Not that you can't colonize, but you need to prioritize. If you have multiple colonies that can build colony ships, it is not early game anymore. Just early-ish.
Independent colonies can have swarms of pirates present. In early game I send fleets to help, late game I just send colonizers and try to pay some attention to whether they succeeded or not. Mostly they are just fire and forget. A lot will fail because the AI got there first, and such things.
You are right, I'm speaking mostly of early-ish. When only my homeworld can build colony ships, I'm pretty methodical. But considering that once you get your second one (which can be anywhere from five minutes to an hour, honestly) you've doubled your rate of expansion, that's when I take off with it.
But regarding very early expansion, you don't need to go for the gusto right away. If you sit on your thumbs for a little bit and save up some cash, and build up as many ships as you can afford, you can generally still muscle your way through the first 10 colonies whether you have two planets making colony ships or just one.
This is all for normal settings, though. Obviously harsher settings are gonna make it harder. I fear i'm not one of those people having THAT easy of a time though, lol.
RE: Building blue-prints
I have not played _that_ much. And the game is not that very early, either.
Once you start you are alone. Then you expand a bit and run into others which have expanded a bit, and you head for war as bases get contested.
This first wave of wars can be quite epic and very fun. But after while you realize that you kept them back, and conquered some nice colonies. And that they are no threat anymore. At this point you have already won. Of course, if the first thing you do is to send a fleet with some cannon fodder and a swarm of troop ships to their capitals, the first wave of wars can be very short.
You also learn how to fight the AI in war, so you after a while learn what you need to defend the most. This makes the game much easier, of course.
I think I may wreck the AI in wars. That does nothing good for long term challenge. How would my empire look if some AI killed most of my mining bases, all of my space ports, and almost all military ships? Not good at all, I figure. After that treatment the AI may fail to reestablish fuel supply. It may have cash on hand, but never get space ports up, or build constructors if the old ones died. Maybe it feels it lacks money to build the mine too.
However, I tend to have cash on hand, so I would not hesitate to buy constructors, space ports, military ships... If I got resources enough, that is. I understand that negative cashflow of 20k means nothing if resort income is 40k and I got a million on hand. The AI does not. And if I see that attack incoming, I would bunch my military ships with my large space port and defensive bases, and wait for the epic struggle.
Once you start you are alone. Then you expand a bit and run into others which have expanded a bit, and you head for war as bases get contested.
This first wave of wars can be quite epic and very fun. But after while you realize that you kept them back, and conquered some nice colonies. And that they are no threat anymore. At this point you have already won. Of course, if the first thing you do is to send a fleet with some cannon fodder and a swarm of troop ships to their capitals, the first wave of wars can be very short.
You also learn how to fight the AI in war, so you after a while learn what you need to defend the most. This makes the game much easier, of course.
I think I may wreck the AI in wars. That does nothing good for long term challenge. How would my empire look if some AI killed most of my mining bases, all of my space ports, and almost all military ships? Not good at all, I figure. After that treatment the AI may fail to reestablish fuel supply. It may have cash on hand, but never get space ports up, or build constructors if the old ones died. Maybe it feels it lacks money to build the mine too.
However, I tend to have cash on hand, so I would not hesitate to buy constructors, space ports, military ships... If I got resources enough, that is. I understand that negative cashflow of 20k means nothing if resort income is 40k and I got a million on hand. The AI does not. And if I see that attack incoming, I would bunch my military ships with my large space port and defensive bases, and wait for the epic struggle.
RE: Building blue-prints
ORIGINAL: feelotraveller
@ GelatinousCube. You don't find pirates at independent worlds? Or space creatures in the system (oh ardilus I love you...)?
It is pretty infrequent but a colony ship is a major investment, and its cargo is very important.
@ MadMcAl. Are you sure you are not confusing star bases with space ports? Assuming you are not, how do I get a constructor to build a spaceport? They never appear in the build menu for me.
Not anymore it seems.
I forgot a long time to update, and did that after I started my last game.
So I have to say that it was possible. But sadly it is not anymore.
@Bingeling
Well, in my last game I maintained 2 or 3 omega fleets (very strong fleets) of up to 25 capitals.
And not the early 500 - 850 size Battle Cruisers but the whopping 1500 size Super Dreadnoughts.
Guess witch 3 systems had them stationed...
The average fleet for me is 12-15 for the fleets (a mix of cruisers and battle cruisers, the occasional SD thrown in, but seldom), and 4-8 destroyers or cruisers for strike forces.
My troop transports are, too in their own fleets, but when I prepare to invade the capital of the 40-colony Boskara empire I don't want to wait month for the battle to finish.
So I send an omega fleet to smash anything in the way to space dust, and attach the troop fleet.
So in preparation of the invasion I have to fuel up to 40 ships.
At once.
I learned the hard way that the war could be over if you have 50% of your navy lurking in front of the space ports, waiting for fuel.
So my policy. Of course if you use supply ships then you can actually reduce the needed number of them by adding additional docks (a supply ship is in essence just a semi mobile base).
The more docks, the more ships can refuel at the same moment.
I have to say I rarely use them anymore, as I design my attack ships with enough fuel cells to cross the whole galaxy, fight for 6 month and come back before they need to refuel (again, in a pinch you can use ships with only a quarter full fuel cells for fast reaction).
Just to make it clear, I am not talking about early game, not even middle game.
In this game I make roughly 20 to 30 million each year by research trading.
Even with high maintenance costs (and reading about my designs and fleet numbers you can guess the costs are up through the roof, even with Gizzers in the empire), but I still have a cash reserve of 70 million.
You can't support such a massive fleet and base policy without such an income.
About colonization, in my experience it actually pays to buy the positions of independent colonies from the pirates.
Get the position of 5 or 10 such planets. Build colonizers for them (look out for problems. Some you can't colonize with your native race) and run.
You practically get halfway developed colonies for roughly 80% higher costs (the 5k for the pirates) and a bit slower colonizing, that can build colonizers of their own from the beginning, and, much more important, give you an taxable revenue from the start.
These colonies are instant commerce centers, with each bringing up your civilian economy by an extreme.
Or in other words, including the costs for the info a colony costs me somewhere arround 15k (including maintenance and fuel and such) compared to the 8-9k for the next raw world.
It takes me half a year longer to actually reach the planet instead to the nice barely habitable swamp next door.
But as soon as I land the colony said colony brings me 50k a year in taxes.
As soon as the SSP is build it brings me 100-200k a year income.
The raw world next door brings me exactly nothing for 3 or 4 years.
To reach the 200k they need 5-10 years, if they are well integrated in your trade network.
So, which is the better way?
Si vis pacem, para bellum
RE: Building blue-prints
The better way is to have fun. Maybe in a world with higher difficulty settings.
I have never seen a fight that 10 capitals of high tech would not probably win. If I don't pay attention some may die though, but at that point it hardly matters. Buy some more.
The game you describe is not one I have played. Maybe after expansion [8D]
I have find that I have the best tech when the game matures, and that makes it easy to stomp the AI. Maybe if another empire is large enough and also near tech limit your scenarios could appear. The current solution is maybe to start at high tech, or at least with the AI at high tech.
When I approach a colony, I start the troop transports a bit later than the battle fleet. They don't have to come from the same direction. The theory is that they should arrive once things are dead, but much later. It has happened that incoming troop transports have had urgent orders to turn around when battle has not gone according to plan.
And of course, if my fleets are too small, I make them bigger...
I have never seen a fight that 10 capitals of high tech would not probably win. If I don't pay attention some may die though, but at that point it hardly matters. Buy some more.
The game you describe is not one I have played. Maybe after expansion [8D]
I have find that I have the best tech when the game matures, and that makes it easy to stomp the AI. Maybe if another empire is large enough and also near tech limit your scenarios could appear. The current solution is maybe to start at high tech, or at least with the AI at high tech.
When I approach a colony, I start the troop transports a bit later than the battle fleet. They don't have to come from the same direction. The theory is that they should arrive once things are dead, but much later. It has happened that incoming troop transports have had urgent orders to turn around when battle has not gone according to plan.
And of course, if my fleets are too small, I make them bigger...
-
Gelatinous Cube
- Posts: 696
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:34 am
RE: Building blue-prints
ORIGINAL: Bingeling
I have not played _that_ much. And the game is not that very early, either.
Once you start you are alone. Then you expand a bit and run into others which have expanded a bit, and you head for war as bases get contested.
This first wave of wars can be quite epic and very fun. But after while you realize that you kept them back, and conquered some nice colonies. And that they are no threat anymore. At this point you have already won. Of course, if the first thing you do is to send a fleet with some cannon fodder and a swarm of troop ships to their capitals, the first wave of wars can be very short.
You also learn how to fight the AI in war, so you after a while learn what you need to defend the most. This makes the game much easier, of course.
I think I may wreck the AI in wars. That does nothing good for long term challenge. How would my empire look if some AI killed most of my mining bases, all of my space ports, and almost all military ships? Not good at all, I figure. After that treatment the AI may fail to reestablish fuel supply. It may have cash on hand, but never get space ports up, or build constructors if the old ones died. Maybe it feels it lacks money to build the mine too.
However, I tend to have cash on hand, so I would not hesitate to buy constructors, space ports, military ships... If I got resources enough, that is. I understand that negative cashflow of 20k means nothing if resort income is 40k and I got a million on hand. The AI does not. And if I see that attack incoming, I would bunch my military ships with my large space port and defensive bases, and wait for the epic struggle.
I've yet to have a war over a disputed base. I'm usually able to buy them, if their in my systems. If their in the other person's system I'll sell them if they're not important or just keep them if they are. So far nobody's attacked me over it.
RE: Building blue-prints
ORIGINAL: Bingeling
The better way is to have fun. Maybe in a world with higher difficulty settings.
I have never seen a fight that 10 capitals of high tech would not probably win. If I don't pay attention some may die though, but at that point it hardly matters. Buy some more.
The game you describe is not one I have played. Maybe after expansion [8D]
I have find that I have the best tech when the game matures, and that makes it easy to stomp the AI. Maybe if another empire is large enough and also near tech limit your scenarios could appear. The current solution is maybe to start at high tech, or at least with the AI at high tech.
When I approach a colony, I start the troop transports a bit later than the battle fleet. They don't have to come from the same direction. The theory is that they should arrive once things are dead, but much later. It has happened that incoming troop transports have had urgent orders to turn around when battle has not gone according to plan.
And of course, if my fleets are too small, I make them bigger...
Usually one of my Super Dreadnoughts can kill an pirate base alone faster than I can hit pause button.
3 or 4 would probably be enough to overwhelm most defenses.
My omega fleets are not to simply overwhelm the enemy but to completely destroy everything he has in the shortest possible amount of time.
They can reduce a capital system to wreckage in a matter of seconds.
And the main point why I use them and not more reasonably sized fleets and ships?
Because I can.
I can afford this ships. I can afford this fleets. So what? And I like to picture the enemies military commander needing new pants when he sees what comes up to him.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
RE: Building blue-prints
I think my "Because I can" moment was in a game where I controlled most myself...
I ended with making heavily armored troop ships carrying 60 troops each, and taking out a 15 system empire in one swoop. I gathered them in the middle. Orderd single ones to attack a colony each, with 2-3 to some of the bigger colonies.
At that point there is not much need to play
I ended with making heavily armored troop ships carrying 60 troops each, and taking out a 15 system empire in one swoop. I gathered them in the middle. Orderd single ones to attack a colony each, with 2-3 to some of the bigger colonies.
At that point there is not much need to play
-
Gelatinous Cube
- Posts: 696
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:34 am
RE: Building blue-prints
ORIGINAL: Bingeling
I think my "Because I can" moment was in a game where I controlled most myself...
I ended with making heavily armored troop ships carrying 60 troops each, and taking out a 15 system empire in one swoop. I gathered them in the middle. Orderd single ones to attack a colony each, with 2-3 to some of the bigger colonies.
At that point there is not much need to play
It would be cool if the AIs could recognize when a human player has reached the "kill this guy or he'll be unstoppable" phase, and form some kind of galactic coalition to cut you down to size.
RE: Building blue-prints
That is so overdone in games.
You can try this one for that:
http://www.gamedesign.jp/flash/dice/dice.html
I have spent almost as much time at that one as DW...
When you are dominant, it would not matter what the AI does as long as they don't all build into bankruptcy and attack you no matter what you do. It would just look silly. And even if they did that, I would probably win quite easily. More money, more tech, better ships... And a few friends that had little or no reason to attack me, as I try to keep some buddies.
You can try this one for that:
http://www.gamedesign.jp/flash/dice/dice.html
I have spent almost as much time at that one as DW...
When you are dominant, it would not matter what the AI does as long as they don't all build into bankruptcy and attack you no matter what you do. It would just look silly. And even if they did that, I would probably win quite easily. More money, more tech, better ships... And a few friends that had little or no reason to attack me, as I try to keep some buddies.