Sphere of Influence suggestion

[Torgrim]

Been playing legends for some time now and really love it, excellent expansion good work
Really like the idea about territory but it has a flaw.

why do the sphere of influence grow so slowly?, you expand your Empire planting colonies and wage war but still most colonies even the ones I have for long time only have a blob territory it doesn't grow that fast.

I would suggest that the sphere of influence grow faster toward your own colonies and slower out in deeps space just to fill in the gaps it looks and feels more like you are building an Empire when you actually can see a coherent border system not just blobs.

Just for the record I know the mechanics for the sphere of influence but as I sead they expand to slowly.

Or have I misted the whole point? If that's the case send me a space worm right at me and slap me [:D]

[Malevolence]

soi needs thermodynamic exchange properties so that colonies close to one another have a cumulative effect. those apart less so. see a big thread on soi a page or two down.

[ASHBERY76]

New colonies take to long to reach a population size to expand it and they stay small it seems for most of the game.I think SOI should be changed to development level as new colonies tend to expand that quicker.

As it stands SOI in my view does not really do much in the game apart from protecting your homeworld sphere..I am still getting messy borders too.

[Torgrim]

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

New colonies take to long to reach a population size to expand it and they stay small it seems for most of the game.I think SOI should be changed to development level as new colonies tend to expand that quicker.

As it stands SOI in my view does not really do much in the game apart from protecting your homeworld sphere..I am still getting messy borders too.

Yep so what's the point with borders when they are in reality no borders, just blobs?

[Canute0]

Try to get good friend with that empire, then send a troop carrier to invade the planet who block your influence !!

But beware i think at 1.704 this cause allways War now.

[Malevolence]

As far as I know soi is based on colony development score.

[Bingeling]

Not sure what the development score, is, but I am pretty sure the indicator is the "Value" on the colony selection screen. And this is probably strategic value?

I had a shared system with two powerful colonies, and the one with the higher value had the higher share of the SOI circle. It went a bit back and forth.

[ASHBERY76]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

As far as I know soi is based on colony development score.

No.I had an independent Securan colony that only had a 55 development score and had a huge sphere.The colony had a huge population.

I have lots of new colonies with 100 development score that have tiny SOI.

[Nedrear]

It is most likely calculated like the taxes. Devolopement is combined with the population. A really hard blow for the coporate nationalism which development breaks down to 50 + bonus...

[Simulation01]

SOI expansion rate needs to be fixed/increased and the mining rights treaty needs to be fixed. 


Also, does anyone else get exceptions related to .wav files?  I will click on a button and it will throw an exception about button1.wav.....and others.  It doesn't cause a crash, but the rate of exceptions is incredibly frustrating!  I get them like every few times I click a button...like when I'm viewing leaders and in diplomacy.  When I'm viewing leaders it's something like grid1.wav.  [:@]

[ASHBERY76]

I just modded the game with a migration 400% buff and ran it for a while.New colonies were getting 700+miliion people and 100 development and the SOI hardly moved.It seem only massive 10000m colonies really effect it.New colonies in a normal game are never going to reach that.I really hope this is fixed.

[Erik Rutins]

We will be taking another look at the sphere of influence, but a few other reported issues are higher priority at the moment. The sphere of influence may get another tweak for the first update, but it will definitely get a more detailed look for the second update.

Regards,

- Erik

[Harry2]

Sphere of Influence in Legends is not properly implemented IMHP. The influence radius is far too big, especially for new, undeveloped colonies. I just established a new colony in a distant cluster and was surprised to see the coloured sphere encompass almost the entire cluster!

This is ludicrous. A new colony is comcerned only with survival from one day to the next, not what is happening 20 ly away in another star system.

If it's the home empire that's concerned about influence around the new colony, they need to back that up with military power...not some arbitrary lines (spheres) drawn on a map.

So to build mines and set colonies within this SoI, you need to go to war. This all-or-nothing (peace or war) relationship with competeing neibours is not very realistic.

As it is, the SoI feature intrudes in the immersive environment that DW:Legends builds with all its other features, with an artificial, arbitray, illogical set of retsrictions.

The SoI concept is a good one but requires a lot of re-thinking.

[Harry2]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

soi needs thermodynamic exchange properties so that colonies close to one another have a cumulative effect. those apart less so. see a big thread on soi a page or two down.

Yes....and fleets should be part of this with their own SoI based on their firepower. So when the 7th Fleet, composed of 15 top end Caps, Cruisers and Carriers plus escorts, pulls into port, the port coloniy gets an appropriate boost to to their SoI

[Nedrear]

Yes I agree the SoI should start around the new system and then should expand in logical steps to neighboring star systems as the colony gets big and rich. First step 100 million, then 500 million etc. I also would like to see an influence by the amount of military BASES inside the sphere itself. But this amount - military base support to expand early as an outpost - should be caped to the third of the potential size of the future colony sphere and would need a lot of bases on it's own. Making this amount of investion into bases not only expensive, but useless in the long run.
Furthermore an enemy SoI which is baked by population should then be weighted 2:1 if not 3:1 against the military in a border clash, pushing them back. Otherwise the player would exploit this too much. And this would be more reasonable.
 
The "I can't steal land unless in war" factor with the borders is completly logical. No country would accept other nations to claim their territory, especially not if worthy ressoruces are involved. Though the Diplomacy needs a "buy land or colony" option. That is true.

[sbach2o]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We will be taking another look at the sphere of influence, but a few other reported issues are higher priority at the moment. The sphere of influence may get another tweak for the first update, but it will definitely get a more detailed look for the second update.

Regards,

- Erik

Please don't listen to them!!

Honestly: This is a feature where you simply cannot please everyone. Personally I find the idea of territory in deep space that extends beyond the boundaries of a single system ridiculous! I can live with it in its current state, but think you have almost overdone it already and either should scale it back, globally, or introduce a slider in the game setup screen that controls how prominent these spheres of influence are.

I don't really know, why there is such a clamor for such a feature here, and can only guess it comes from those who are used to WWII tactical simulations and seek to extend that sort of experience into a space setting? Well, presumptuos of me, probably. And now I come along, (desparately) trying to be louder than them...

[Webbco]

It's funny how many different views on spheres of influence there are here.

sbach2o, I think the one of the main reasons why they added this feature is because the map in DW is not (and cannot) be a 3D 'realistic' one. As an empire grows and expands, eventually mingling with other empires, the 2D map becomes messy making strategic decisions very difficult.

I personally like the concept. It may not be very realistic but I've enjoyed my games a lot more since SoI and that's what counts! I do agree with the point that the spheres (or rather circles [;)]) should expand at an increased rate as a colony grows.

[HectorOfTroy]

Yep spheres made the game much more enjoyable. Prior to it, games would get way too messy, this way we have clearly definded territories which do make game more strategic. At least that is my opinion.

[Gelatinous Cube]

Since we're all giving our opinions, I'll go with the majority: Spheres are good! Personally, I like them as-is. They are easily one of the best reasons to buy the Legends expansion.

While I applaud Codeforce for listening to its fan base, it is wise to remember that trying to please everyone will never work. Just stick with the vision, man.

[sbach2o]

ORIGINAL: Webbco

It's funny how many different views on spheres of influence there are here.

No, it is in no way funny, it is just to be expected.

ORIGINAL: Webbco

sbach2o, I think the one of the main reasons why they added this feature is because the map in DW is not (and cannot) be a 3D 'realistic' one. As an empire grows and expands, eventually mingling with other empires, the 2D map becomes messy making strategic decisions very difficult.

Messy, and then what? What is the issue there? It comes all down to play dynamics. When colonies and bases of enemies/adversaries can be freely intermingled with yours, the conflict lines are just different. Not in any way 'better' or 'worse'. It is rather a matter of taste of what one prefers or wants to live with.

ORIGINAL: Webbco

I personally like the concept. It may not be very realistic but I've enjoyed my games a lot more since SoI and that's what counts! I do agree with the point that the spheres (or rather circles [;)]) should expand at an increased rate as a colony grows.

And you are perfectly right to have your preferences. Realism is not something a game should strive for, the play dynamics, challenges and fun are the really important thing.

My personal preference I have hinted at (erm, with a sledge hammer ). Accordingly I am not very interested in whether spheres of influence grow fast or slow. I'd like a slider to control the weight to put on those spheres, so I could scale it back some and let others play at their prefered settings. Right now, the spheres look huge to me despite the increased distances between stars in the big games at 15 by 15 sectors.

The fundamental problem, btw. is that colonies tend to grow slowly at first and gain momentum late. The influence radius probably should be based on a logarithmic scale of population/strategic value/whatever to suit your needs. Although I suspect such a scale may already be employed. Maybe, if it is really based on strategic value, there's the problem. That is nailed to a low default value for a very long time, until a colony grows beyond a certain threshold (around 500 M population, typically?).

But aren't colonies with fewer people really insignificant? They are like a flag someone has planted down somewhere, but tend to contribute nothing to an empire, economy-wise. Just better mining outposts.