How-To Fleet Posture

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Gelatinous Cube
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RE: Fleet Posture

Post by Gelatinous Cube »

Oh, it's a ton of fun. The biggest thing to remember is that at this scale the game becomes more of a Hearts of Iron pace instead of an EU3 pace, so it is a totally different mindset. I use tons of automation for my fleets and designs, but I'm not really using it for anything else. It's currently taking me about an hour to play through a year, and it's not even war yet--although to be fair, Legendary Pirates are absolutely rampant right now, and the Orange Shandar empire is being eaten from the inside by silvermists... it's Abundant colonies, so whenever those things get to me, it will be very painful. Beyond that, tech is on Very Expensive, so even though I have this massive empire, my tech still is very basic. I don't even have advanced ion weapons yet. Fortunately, killing Legendary Pirates gives you lots of free tech--I have nearly maxed out phasers right now, which is the main thing keeping me alive despite the pokes and prods coming from all directions. The AI might not be a whiz at war, but it certainly knows how to be passive-aggressive.
I'm curious: Which tab do you mean? The lower-left-corner of the screen, the one that shows a picture of the ship/world/base you have selected? How do you monitor construction progress from that panel?


Easy! Just select the item you want to monitor, and keep an eye on the box. You don't need to worry about getting lost in the shuffle if you use the forward/back buttons at the top of the tab. Very useful! It's like having bookmarks for stuff you wanted to keep an eye on. Also infinitely useful in battle, where hitting the back button is much easier than finding my fleet again.
And a further question. How do you defend all the mining bases and whatnot in your territory? Do you put a couple of warship on patrol around each base, or do you use fleets in defense mode, with overlapping circles? Or both?


It's very situational. In this case I lucked out and got close proximity to four different gas fields. The easiest way to make sure your little picket fleets don't become out-of-gas and useless is to put them right on top of a gas mine. Don't use a really big fleet for something far away, unless you really mean business and will keep an eye on that fleet. The first consideration when setting up your defensive network should be "What can I reasonably supply?" The Second should be "What needs to be defended?" Only then do I ask "How many ships?"

*As I said a few posts up, I also use the main construction screen to create a surplus of automated ships that are not part of any fleet. I make as many of these as I can reasonably afford to build, maintain, and fuel. That way when I need a fleet for part of my defensive network, I just pick from my military ships screen (filtered to fleets, looking for (none) and the ship type I want, and distance from the objective). There's no reason not to use posturing with every fleet, even the ones that are just patrolling a planet. At the very least, it will give you a visual marker on the overlay screen so you can check on things at a glance.
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Grotius
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RE: Fleet Posture

Post by Grotius »

Glad you're having so much fun. I'm already thinking about the settings to use for my next game. (My current AAR will wind up fairly soon, I believe....) I'm debating between huge and tiny, scarce and plentiful. I like the idea of a galaxy with few resources and colonies, but I also like the idea of an epic game like yours.

Ah, the back/forward buttons. I do indeed use those to track stuff like construction, so I guess I'd been doing the same thing. But I wish there were a "bookmark" function instead of just back/front. I guess there are ctl-plus-number markers one can use; I haven't tried those yet.

Incidentally, is there a quick way to select & zoom in on something, particularly your home colony's starport? I know P and C cycle through them, but is there a way to hit one button that takes me immediately to my zoomed-in starport? Maybe the ctl-# thing?
That way when I need a fleet for part of my defensive network, I just pick from my military ships screen (filtered to fleets, looking for (none) and the ship type I want, and distance from the objective).
Hmm, I'll have to try that. I always end up floundering on the main map, picking ships out individually by eyeballing what's closest. You mean the F10 screen, filtered for military ships?
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Gelatinous Cube
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RE: Fleet Posture

Post by Gelatinous Cube »

Man, I'm bad at quoting stuff. Alright, take three:

If you have something selected, there are a number of methods you can use to zoom right to it. Clicking on the name in the context box will center your view. Also the lock button. Double-clicking the name in the context box will open up F10 screen with the pertinent details.

For creating fleets, I find my method to be the easiest of many that i've tried. There's no wrong way to queue up your fleets and organize them, truly there isn't. Just "plucking" them out from a pool of already-built and semi-productive ships seems the best way to do it. And yes, from the F10 menu just like you said.
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Keston
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RE: Fleet Posture

Post by Keston »

Reposting due to stale connection - location, task and hotkey number for fleet names is quite useful.


I have some findings on trying to control fleets in enemy systems but I'll post in the posture problems thread to leave this free for AARing.

Thanks.


P.S. Hate it when it's been too long and I get an error when posting, losing the text. After that, of course, I can post.
hewwo
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RE: Fleet Posture

Post by hewwo »

This is an awesome guide. The system was somewhat incomprehensible before. Thank you very much!
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Grotius
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RE: Fleet Posture

Post by Grotius »

Thanks for the reply, Cube. I'm wondering, though, whether I can select AND zoom with one keystroke. If I'm off looking at some gas cloud, sometimes I want to hit one key and be back at my home starport, zoomed in. I suppose I can use the Ctl-number keys for that?
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Gelatinous Cube
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RE: Fleet Posture

Post by Gelatinous Cube »

ORIGINAL: Keston

Reposting due to stale connection - location, task and hotkey number for fleet names is quite useful.


I have some findings on trying to control fleets in enemy systems but I'll post in the posture problems thread to leave this free for AARing.

Thanks.


P.S. Hate it when it's been too long and I get an error when posting, losing the text. After that, of course, I can post.
(

Oh no you are more than welcome to post any solid findings in this thread. This is a guide, first and foremost. [8D]
I suppose I can use the Ctl-number keys for that?

I think so. I'm pretty sure that pressing the assinged number button twice quickly would either center the view or open up the F10 ledger.
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BletchleyGeek
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RE: Fleet Posture

Post by BletchleyGeek »

Excellent post Cube. I'm starting to get into DW and this has clarified quite a few of my doubts :)
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Grisha
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by Grisha »

Excellent thread, GC! I've been using defensive posture correctly, it seems, but got the attack posture totally wrong. It seemed that attack and defense postures were just flip sides of the same coin, almost redundant in a way. Not so after your thread here. Now it all makes sense. Thanks for that!
Best regards,
Greg Guerrero
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Gelatinous Cube
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by Gelatinous Cube »

ORIGINAL: Grisha

Excellent thread, GC! I've been using defensive posture correctly, it seems, but got the attack posture totally wrong. It seemed that attack and defense postures were just flip sides of the same coin, almost redundant in a way. Not so after your thread here. Now it all makes sense. Thanks for that!

Yep! No problem, man. Personally I find the postures are most useful for the following two reasons (on the attack):

1.) Allows you to do MASSIVE multi-front assaults without having to micro-manage everything.

2.) Gives you a visual reference for what is going on. This is maybe more important than number one.
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Bentley264
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by Bentley264 »

I wanted to thank you for your post, it has been very helpful, and I have used your suggestions to good effect, I am winning too easily on normal, and must now progress to hard.

I do design my own ships and bases. It is not quite as tedious as you think. Once you have made your initial modifications (no, I don't start from scratch, but I put fighter bays on most of my ships and bases), save the designs for your next game - helps alot.
NEVER turn on automatic designs or you must start your designs over. When you research a few techs that significantly advances you, select all the designs and cilck the upgrade button. The game will upgrade any significant advances, yet keep your previous design plan. The only time you need to manually edit the ship's designs is when they get larger, or when a new component (such as damage control or ion cannon) becomes available. Everything else upgrades intuitively - such as fuel cells to dense fuel cells, or fighter bays to advanced fighter bays, or armor to Enhanced armor. You do need to maually retrofit, but this can be done one fleet at a time via the F12 screen. That works better for me anyways, so all fleets aren't down at once.

Anyway, hopes this helps if you go for your own ship designs.
Bob
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Gelatinous Cube
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by Gelatinous Cube »

It does. Thanks for that. I've been messing with some smaller games to get the hang of designing my own ships, before getting too far ahead in the Polish AAR. It introduces some challenges I didn't expect--like now, all of a sudden, I find myself caring about what order all my ships retrofit in. I never cared about that before.
mllange
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by mllange »

Everything makes sense (of a sort) however the photos are no longer available due to account space limitations. Does anyone have a cached or PDF version of this information that includes the images?
There's a simple answer to every complex question - and it's wrong.
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Gelatinous Cube
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by Gelatinous Cube »

They, and my AAR, should be back on the 10th, when my monthly photobucket bandwidth resets. If this happens again, I'll probably just pay the fee and upgrade.
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netjam99
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by netjam99 »

I would like to see the pictures, the quality of this thread/guide caused your hosting service to be swamped! But regardless I learmed a lot from your text and have implemented your system. Great stuff.
onomastikon
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by onomastikon »

I really appreciate your posts and all of the time you spent in detailing this! Thank you!
You probably won't believe it, but I am still having a bit of a problem understanding / getting it all to work. Do you mind if I post here a couple of questions?
Basically, I think it boils down to: when do I hit "automate"?

- If I want to coordinate an attack, I get my groups of fleets, set "Attack Target" for each which tells that fleet to go after that target (basically, up to here, as if I were manually telling it to attack without posturing, right?), then I set its range (which tells it what to attack AFTER it is done attacking the thing I set for "Set Attack Target"), then I hit "Attack Mode" (sword icon), which sends it on its way? Or do I need to hit "Automate" to send it on its way? Or do I need to hit "automate" after it is underway? Or do I not need to hit automate?
Basically, I am confused as to what is actually the status of my ships when they are sitting around in their fleet positions with "no mission".
- Is "Set Home Base" important for an attack fleet? (When will it go back to its home base? If they need to retreat? Refuel?)
- If I want my fleets to defend, I need to set home base, which is like a "defend target" to the attack posture's "attack target" (right?), then set range -- then hit automate? Or will they be defending if I do not hit automate?

- When I fleet is postured to defend, and set on automated, will it refuel when needed? (Or how can I tell it: when "needed" is really needed?!) When postured to attack also ditto?

- I sometimes have resupply ships which I deploy to gas clouds underway so they have a stock on fuel; is there a way to set my fleet to that ship as a home base? I can't seem to make that work.

Thanks so much!
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scotten_usa
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by scotten_usa »

I've printed the first page to PDF if anyone would like to download and save:

https://sites.google.com/site/scotten/d ... osture.pdf

Hopefully this doesn't break any rules here...
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apd1004
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by apd1004 »

I've been playing this game for a long time, on and off, and have never messed with automation for ship/base design and fleet control. I've noticed with Legends now, if I try to micromanage ships like I have always done, it doesn't work like pre-Legends and ships seem to want to go off and attack something all the time compared to before when they were a lot easier to control and if I told them to sit tight somewhere and left them on manual, they would sit tight. Now when I go to find ships that I have staged somewhere, they are usually gone off somewhere doing their own thing, even when set on manual.

I figure this is because even though they are set to manual, they still default to the new posture settings. Not 100% sure if that is really what is happening but it makes sense.

So, based on this thread, I am going to boldly go where I have never gone before, and that is to start automating my fleets. I've been getting pretty frustrated lately, like when I have a fleet of troop ships that I'm trying to stage somewhere to set up an invasion, and come to discover they have gone off chasing pirates or enemy explorations ships and now I am herding cats trying to get them back together. I will still control design because I think that is one of the most appealing things about DW.

I am making the assumption that automated fleets set on defend a base will refuel and repair on their own as necessary, and will abide by their "rules of engagement" as set by the posturing and automation settings. I am also making the assumption that they will not automatically retrofit to newer designs as long as I have design set to manual.

Thanks for the informative thread, I am anxious to see how this automation thing works.
apd1004
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onomastikon
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by onomastikon »

ORIGINAL: onomastikon

I really appreciate your posts and all of the time you spent in detailing this! Thank you!
You probably won't believe it, but I am still having a bit of a problem understanding / getting it all to work. Do you mind if I post here a couple of questions?
Basically, I think it boils down to: when do I hit "automate"?

- If I want to coordinate an attack, I get my groups of fleets, set "Attack Target" for each which tells that fleet to go after that target (basically, up to here, as if I were manually telling it to attack without posturing, right?), then I set its range (which tells it what to attack AFTER it is done attacking the thing I set for "Set Attack Target"), then I hit "Attack Mode" (sword icon), which sends it on its way? Or do I need to hit "Automate" to send it on its way? Or do I need to hit "automate" after it is underway? Or do I not need to hit automate?
Basically, I am confused as to what is actually the status of my ships when they are sitting around in their fleet positions with "no mission".
- Is "Set Home Base" important for an attack fleet? (When will it go back to its home base? If they need to retreat? Refuel?)
- If I want my fleets to defend, I need to set home base, which is like a "defend target" to the attack posture's "attack target" (right?), then set range -- then hit automate? Or will they be defending if I do not hit automate?

- When I fleet is postured to defend, and set on automated, will it refuel when needed? (Or how can I tell it: when "needed" is really needed?!) When postured to attack also ditto?

- I sometimes have resupply ships which I deploy to gas clouds underway so they have a stock on fuel; is there a way to set my fleet to that ship as a home base? I can't seem to make that work.

Thanks so much!

While I still do not know the answer to these questions, I have further confused myself in the week or so since I posted: I have noticed that the fleets I have set do "defend" --> "system" have really let me down. In a new game, still fairly early (late early game), I got into conflict with a really close neighbor, and had 4 fleets to defend my 4 colonizes near / around his. These fleets had about 4 ships each in them, each set to defend base + system. I got the warning message that an attack fleet of his was set on an attack vector to my moon X; so to make sure, I set that fleet to defend base only (to make sure it wouldnt wander around too far). About 20 minutes later, I find that fleet way out in deep space. A second fleet of mine was likewise deep in space, far away from its home system. My only guess was that they were chasing an escaping attacker or civilian ship. I really doubt that they were attempting to refuel or so, since they had lots of fuel and there was nothing out in space towards which they could go to refuel. But why? I thought "defend" + small area = they don't go wandering? What am I doing wrong?
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Gelatinous Cube
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RE: How-To Fleet Posture

Post by Gelatinous Cube »

Ah, you're not doing anything wrong. The Defend posture works, but it doesn't work perfectly. For posture to be 100% effective, it has to be used in conjunction with ships that are automated (which means that posturing is something you use primarily with ships you DONT want to keep an eye on personally). For the most part, this works as advertised--but there are still holes in the AI. It is not as effective as if you micro-managed a sector yourself, which is probably a good thing. The mantra of the game seems to be (imo at least) automate where you want, but you can awlays improve things by managing them yourself.

Posturing is most effective on large maps, where it is impossible to keep an eye on everything yourself. As such, it is important to remember that posturing is an advanced feature used best in conjunction with automated fleets and a good understanding of how best to use those fleets.
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