The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[Grfin Zeppelin]

Maybe I know a workaround. Stand all your bombers/fighters down and then target the hex again. I remember having the same issue a while ago and this worked.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Maybe I know a workaround. Stand all your bombers/fighters down and then target the hex again. I remember having the same issue a while ago and this worked.

Done that...didn't matter...Michealm confirmed it's a bug and he's working on it...


I've asked Rader his opinion about re-playing the Hachinoe attack turn...what's your opinion about it?

[Itdepends]

Stupid question time- I assume you're still reconning the heck out of Hachinoe?

[paullus99]

I would hope that Rader would do the honest / right thing here & allow for a fixing of the bug - then replay the turn. Bugs aren't the fault of the players and they shouldn't be victimized for them.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Itdepends

Stupid question time- I assume you're still reconning the heck out of Hachinoe?

Yes, DL levels are always at max...i have several recon squadrons bound for Hachinoe every day God sends

[obvert]

Could help disrupt the IJA units and save you some disruption, give him more injury, and get a better idea of what you can do here with proper coordination of forces. Also it could save a few of those 155mm from the turn after if his troops are more disrupted.

[GreyJoy]

I could even achieve an 1-1 in that deliberate attack....

[beppi]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I could even achieve an 1-1 in that deliberate attack....

Yes it could be possible, but not because of the missing bombers.
With such large stacks it is possible that even some slight roll misses can cause quite a large change in the adjusted AV. Especially if important rolls (like the HQs) roll different.

I conducted some tests with around 5k AV late war US troops assaulting 3k AV in open terrain with around 40 different units (some divisions, lot of artillery and some small units in each army) and the combat ration ranged from 1-6 to 2-1 when the same turn was completely redone.

In addition heavy air to ground bombardment mainly disabled/kills troops and only adds a small amount of disruption on such large stacks as the attack gets distributed between so many units.

In addition adjusted AV do not really influence the combat losses and you brought the forts 1 lvl down which is ok for a deliberate attack. You need very good modifiers to bring more forts down with a deliberate attack if it is even possible (i never really looked for it). If you want to grind them down faster you need a shock attack. If Reader does not bring any more troops even your currently landed units could capture the base (but it will take quite a lot of time to recover the disrupted squads between each attack).

Main problem with completely redoing a turn is always the big random factor. You could even achieve only 1-3 or 1-4 odds, or lose more units during the combat. Or you could achieve 1-1 odds. In the end there will always be a "discussion" about it.

It is always good to have the engine to blame.

[GreyJoy]

Beppi, i completely agree. 100%. You are a wise man and i find your commenta always "spotted"! Thanks again.

Won't ask for a redo....don't wanna risk to create an "argument" between me amd andrew...this game is too good to be ruined!

Let's carry on!

Time for important decisions....

[JeffroK]

Only 2 Divs at Ominato???

Or are they hiding from your bombers?

[GreyJoy]

Ok guys...the second wave is loaded...
 
...orders are being issued...
 
...holding my breath....
 
...may God be with our sailors, gunners, pilots, GIs...all of them will need luck in order to survive this day...
 
...da day that may well become decisive...towards victory or final defeat...

[castor troy]

now way you will ever going to break through 7000+ enemy av sitting behind forts, no matter how many air attacks you fly (which prove to be useless due to high forts anyway with only a dozen combat squads disabled from a huge airstrike) or how many more units you bring.

To me, totally senseless to even try to attack. The first attack may well suffer 2000 combat squads disabled, if not more, if you would get a 1:1 because then you would attack twice in a row with two day turns. No Allied Army on the map can break through here IMO:

Defending force 258200 troops, 4620 guns, 4152 vehicles, Assault Value = 7372

besides this, the engine is just not capable of handling this well. I sure will be interested in the result.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

now way you will ever going to break through 7000+ enemy av sitting behind forts, no matter how many air attacks you fly (which prove to be useless due to high forts anyway with only a dozen combat squads disabled from a huge airstrike) or how many more units you bring.

To me, totally senseless to even try to attack. The first attack may well suffer 2000 combat squads disabled, if not more, if you would get a 1:1 because then you would attack twice in a row with two day turns. No Allied Army on the map can break through here IMO:

Defending force 258200 troops, 4620 guns, 4152 vehicles, Assault Value = 7372

besides this, the engine is just not capable of handling this well. I sure will be interested in the result.

Well....somebody must try![:'(]

[CaptBeefheart]

Perhaps land the second wave at Ominato? Sure, a lot of disruption, but...

Cheers,
CC

[GreyJoy]

...now that i've attracted Rader's attention at Hachinoe...(he reinforced with a HUGE AA force and lots of CD guns after the first landings)...i'll try my luck and land the second wave at Aikita, while a blocking force composed of 3 reinforced divisions will land at Aomori (if you look at the road and railroad system you'll understand why i needed this blocking force).
 
My bombers will hit Aikita, while 3000 fighters will LRCAP over my fleet....if my calculations are right...Rader's combined fleet should be waiting at Tokyo for my second wave...right at the other side of Japan...
 
Finger crossed

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: castor troy

now way you will ever going to break through 7000+ enemy av sitting behind forts, no matter how many air attacks you fly (which prove to be useless due to high forts anyway with only a dozen combat squads disabled from a huge airstrike) or how many more units you bring.

To me, totally senseless to even try to attack. The first attack may well suffer 2000 combat squads disabled, if not more, if you would get a 1:1 because then you would attack twice in a row with two day turns. No Allied Army on the map can break through here IMO:

Defending force 258200 troops, 4620 guns, 4152 vehicles, Assault Value = 7372

besides this, the engine is just not capable of handling this well. I sure will be interested in the result.

Well....somebody must try![:'(]

yeah, unfortunately the US Army isn't comparable to the Soviet Army because you got far less US Army forces than the Japanese got so even if you would inflict 1:1 LOSSES, the enemy would still win. Problem here is you take twice as many losses as the enemy, even if only disabled so far, which also goes for the enemy.

[Canoerebel]

Aha!  GJ is at it again!  No second wave for Hachinoe.  Instead, two new invasions after rader has committed 3,000 AV reinforcements to the first beachhead.  If successful, GJ catches rader by surprise and cuts off northern Honshu.  Meanwhile, the Imperial Navy can't be defending both the east coast beaches and the west coast beaches at the same time.  Looks very interesting.  Good luck, GJ!

[obvert]

Now this is going to cause some problems. I'm sure he's still got a lot there, but the other question is can he ever dislodge YOU from these bases? I'm thinking it will be hard to do. Maybe then over time you can edge your way forward.

Either way, fun times!

[jeffk3510]

I find it interesting how Rader has 7k+ av at the EXACT landing spot...[8|]

GJ, are you sure you want to land at that spot and not Ominato or whatever...make a quick attack and capture the airbase there for frontline support..

[beppi]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: castor troy

now way you will ever going to break through 7000+ enemy av sitting behind forts, no matter how many air attacks you fly (which prove to be useless due to high forts anyway with only a dozen combat squads disabled from a huge airstrike) or how many more units you bring.

To me, totally senseless to even try to attack. The first attack may well suffer 2000 combat squads disabled, if not more, if you would get a 1:1 because then you would attack twice in a row with two day turns. No Allied Army on the map can break through here IMO:

Defending force 258200 troops, 4620 guns, 4152 vehicles, Assault Value = 7372

besides this, the engine is just not capable of handling this well. I sure will be interested in the result.

Well....somebody must try![:'(]

yeah, unfortunately the US Army isn't comparable to the Soviet Army because you got far less US Army forces than the Japanese got so even if you would inflict 1:1 LOSSES, the enemy would still win. Problem here is you take twice as many losses as the enemy, even if only disabled so far, which also goes for the enemy.

It is possible to cap that hex as long as Raeder does not shift enough troops there. Take at look at the adjusted odds. Remove the potential lvl 7 forts and calculate a parashock. It may take quite a lot of time bring the forts to lvl 0, which is currently not a problem, to recover the disabled squads but it is possible. Every week an attack to bring the forts a lvl down in combination with air attacks to prevent rebuilding the forts. As soon as the forts are at level 0 -> parashock -> gg. The lack of terrain there has a drastic influence.

Yesterday i did a parashock @ Prome with around 5,5k unajdusted AV against 2k unajdusted defender AV. Had a lot of arty (which made the difference) and got an adjusted attacker AV of close to 16k and shocked the enemy out of the hex against lvl 6 forts in the first turn. And the attacker troops were mainly Brithis/Australian/Chinese ones.

Still some landings somewhere else to distribute the forces is always better than breaking a heavy defense.

Btw. just take a look at the bombardment round result, calculate it for 60 days (two month) and the allies have almost killed the entire existing Japanese artillery. And it is just the arty of the first wave.