Bwheatley vs abulbulian GC 1.5.18 beta (no abulbulian)

[Encircled]

In March '42, he will walk right through your front line, and encircle a lot of troops, and then he will do it again throughout June-Dec

You haven't anywhere enough troops to survive that, unless you plan a really, really, really deep defence and pull right back.

If you do that, then you probably can't win, but at least you will last '42

[randallw]

That artillery deficit is awfully bad.

[bwheatley]

We're playing the new beta the offensive won't start until May. But yea i'm working on the gorky line now. I am sure even if i did hold the kerch strait i'd lose it from the north when he takes rostov again.

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

bwheatley, you are underestimating the strength of the German 1942 offensive. It begins in the first week of March and doesn't stop until the end of December, and there is even a late winter surge in 42/43. Only by that stage can you turn it around. It's also stronger because the rail heads are closer, and you don't have as far back to fall.

Your army has been reduced to about 3.6 million men, by this stage of the war it needs to be about a million more, maybe 1.5 million. You'll gain about a million over the winter, and lose about 2 million next summer. So you need to be holding shortened lines, not the entire front.

You're not going to hold the Don line or the Kerch straits in '42, nor are you going to hold Moscow or Stalingrad. You do need to look at fortifying that Volga line back between Yaroslavl and Gorky, and the lines north of Baku. You need to start on that now or you won't get time to do them in 1942, and fortifications build much more slowly in the winter & mud seasons, especially mud.

I wouldn't be bothering using 20+ RR brigades repairing the lines into Moscow, you need at least half of those back in the Yaroslavl/Ivanovo area to hold off the attacks there. I assume your rail network has most of your factories out, but you need to protect them -- if he starts overrunning places like Magnitogorsk or Zlaoust your game is over, and it's similarly over if he takes Baku.

[bwheatley]

T25

Turn 1 of the blizzard resulted in a victory in almost every battle.


We've ended up getting 2 german divisions encircled so far. Hopefully more to come.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

bwheatley, you are underestimating the strength of the German 1942 offensive. It begins in the first week of March and doesn't stop until the end of December, and there is even a late winter surge in 42/43. Only by that stage can you turn it around. It's also stronger because the rail heads are closer, and you don't have as far back to fall.

Your army has been reduced to about 3.6 million men, by this stage of the war it needs to be about a million more, maybe 1.5 million. You'll gain about a million over the winter, and lose about 2 million next summer. So you need to be holding shortened lines, not the entire front.

You're not going to hold the Don line or the Kerch straits in '42, nor are you going to hold Moscow or Stalingrad. You do need to look at fortifying that Volga line back between Yaroslavl and Gorky, and the lines north of Baku. You need to start on that now or you won't get time to do them in 1942, and fortifications build much more slowly in the winter & mud seasons, especially mud.

I wouldn't be bothering using 20+ RR brigades repairing the lines into Moscow, you need at least half of those back in the Yaroslavl/Ivanovo area to hold off the attacks there. I assume your rail network has most of your factories out, but you need to protect them -- if he starts overrunning places like Magnitogorsk or Zlaoust your game is over, and it's similarly over if he takes Baku.

In regards to the RR units unless i missed something you can't control them. The HQ's dispatch them where they want to. If there is a way to control where they go now i'd be glad to hear about it.

[delatbabel]

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

In regards to the RR units unless i missed something you can't control them. The HQ's dispatch them where they want to. If there is a way to control where they go now i'd be glad to hear about it.

By "control" I mean move them to a more appropriate HQ. You should probably move about half of the ones you have back to Stavka (and lock) and then next turn move them to HQs that are in command of forts along the line you want to dig, plus add some more (and lock). 5 RR construction brigades per HQ in the rear area line is not too many, you can always disband the excess in 43 (although I find that building surplus in 41 and keeping them just means I don't use the NKPS units as much).

Right now, your best defensive weapon is the shovel.

I think it's been pointed out earlier that you can put a fortified region unit every 3 hexes along the line you want to fortify. Those FRs shouldn't be under Stavka control, they should report to an HQ chock full of RR construction brigades (there are also construction batallions, but they aren't as good and nobody ever seems to build them, they cost the same number of APs). You can go to fort level 3 in every hex then (see the notes below) and up to level 4 in the hexes occupied by the FRs (but you'll want rifle corps with attached sappers to be able to dig that fast). Once you've reached fort level 3 in the hexes in and either side of the FR you can disband it.

Also, what is this "new beta" you refer to? I thought I had the latest beta which is 1.05.53 and the Axis offensive definitely starts in the first week of March. If it had started in May I may have held Moscow in my current game, but that's just not possible in 1.05.53.

--

20) Changes to Fortification Rules
a. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 5 - Only will be built in port hexes that have a fort unit. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in a swamp hex.
b. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 4 - Must have a fort unit in the hex. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in swamp hex.
c. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 3 - Must be adjacent to an enemy hex, be an urban or city hex, or be in or adjacent to a fort unit. Once the level 3 is reached, the condition does not have to continue to be met to keep the level 3 fort.
d. Fort levels that have reached their maximum fort level for the hex may continue to build up to 10% towards the next fort level.
e. Building forts in mud now uses a .25 modifier (instead of .33).
f. Level 4 and 5 forts do not decay.
g. There is no fort decay on turn 1 of any scenario.
h. Doubled the rate of fort decay.
i. Increased decay rate of low level forts, based on the weather.
Extra decay percentage:
Fort Weather
Level clear snow mud/blizzard
0 20 40 80
1 12 24 48
2 4 8 16
g. Added supply cost for fort construction as follows:
fort 0->1 1 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 1->2 2 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 2->3 20 tons per fort points
fort 3->4 200 tons per fort points
fort 4->5 2000 tons per fort points
*note each fort point represents 2% toward the next fort level

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

In March '42, he will walk right through your front line, and encircle a lot of troops, and then he will do it again throughout June-Dec

You haven't anywhere enough troops to survive that, unless you plan a really, really, really deep defence and pull right back.

If you do that, then you probably can't win, but at least you will last '42

One of my favorite saying in football. When you have one team that is almost certainly going to win and then winds up losing they say "That's why they play the games".

Guess we'll see where we end up heh.

[jzardos]

Bill you might want to update the title of this AAR and include the version of WitE you guys are on? Doesn't seem like you're still on v1.05.18? Or put in post when a new version is being used?

Thanks

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: Schmart

ORIGINAL: bwheatley
Thanks for the tip with the hq's for forts i didn't even think of that! I typically use RR brigades instead of construction brigades since the RR was a twofer (rr repair and construction value). Has that changed in a patch since launch day? I don't recall if it has.

Actually, I meant to say RR Const Bdes. There aren't any non-RR Const units. Only Sapper and RR Construction. The Const Bdes are cheaper (in armaments) to build, so I only build those in 1941. HQs give construction boosts of any Const or Sapper units to attached units, including forts. You can also attach Const or Sapper units directly to forts, but that's a bit expensive in admin pts to manage. I just keep them in the HQs.

I try to keep my digger armies as static as possible, as re-assigning forts costs admin pts after the first one (from STAVKA).

Cool thank you for the tip i appreciate it. I didn't know that.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: delatbabel


By "control" I mean move them to a more appropriate HQ. You should probably move about half of the ones you have back to Stavka (and lock) and then next turn move them to HQs that are in command of forts along the line you want to dig, plus add some more (and lock). 5 RR construction brigades per HQ in the rear area line is not too many, you can always disband the excess in 43 (although I find that building surplus in 41 and keeping them just means I don't use the NKPS units as much).

Cool thanks for the tips. Yea i used to just keeps forts hq'd to stavka until recently. Now i have all the forts around moscow linked to the Moscow defense zone hq.

I typically give stavka 6 RR units. And each hq i give 3 RR units, 3 arty units, 3 AT units.
Currently into the 3rd turn of the blizzard and i've got no spare arm points anymore. Guess equipping these dozens of new divisions and brigade takes it's toll. Though with the arm points being my bottleneck now at least my manpower is starting to stockpile.

I'll have more pictures later when i get home. We destroyed 3 german units so far. 7th Flieger and two ID were destroyed. We also encircled the 1st mountain division last turn. Ara got cocky and left too much space between that division and everything else. He said he broke free in his turn but i have another few cav divisions to help widen the envelopment. Ara said due to me unhinging the line around the mountain division he's going to have to give up rostov.

In the crimea we've cleared the last bottleneck to retaking the whole peninsula.

Ara had 220k in losses & attrition last turn so hopefully we're putting a dent in him.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

In regards to the RR units unless i missed something you can't control them. The HQ's dispatch them where they want to. If there is a way to control where they go now i'd be glad to hear about it.

By "control" I mean move them to a more appropriate HQ. You should probably move about half of the ones you have back to Stavka (and lock) and then next turn move them to HQs that are in command of forts along the line you want to dig, plus add some more (and lock). 5 RR construction brigades per HQ in the rear area line is not too many, you can always disband the excess in 43 (although I find that building surplus in 41 and keeping them just means I don't use the NKPS units as much).

Right now, your best defensive weapon is the shovel.

I think it's been pointed out earlier that you can put a fortified region unit every 3 hexes along the line you want to fortify. Those FRs shouldn't be under Stavka control, they should report to an HQ chock full of RR construction brigades (there are also construction batallions, but they aren't as good and nobody ever seems to build them, they cost the same number of APs). You can go to fort level 3 in every hex then (see the notes below) and up to level 4 in the hexes occupied by the FRs (but you'll want rifle corps with attached sappers to be able to dig that fast). Once you've reached fort level 3 in the hexes in and either side of the FR you can disband it.

Also, what is this "new beta" you refer to? I thought I had the latest beta which is 1.05.53 and the Axis offensive definitely starts in the first week of March. If it had started in May I may have held Moscow in my current game, but that's just not possible in 1.05.53.

--

20) Changes to Fortification Rules
a. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 5 - Only will be built in port hexes that have a fort unit. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in a swamp hex.
b. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 4 - Must have a fort unit in the hex. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in swamp hex.
c. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 3 - Must be adjacent to an enemy hex, be an urban or city hex, or be in or adjacent to a fort unit. Once the level 3 is reached, the condition does not have to continue to be met to keep the level 3 fort.
d. Fort levels that have reached their maximum fort level for the hex may continue to build up to 10% towards the next fort level.
e. Building forts in mud now uses a .25 modifier (instead of .33).
f. Level 4 and 5 forts do not decay.
g. There is no fort decay on turn 1 of any scenario.
h. Doubled the rate of fort decay.
i. Increased decay rate of low level forts, based on the weather.
Extra decay percentage:
Fort Weather
Level clear snow mud/blizzard
0 20 40 80
1 12 24 48
2 4 8 16
g. Added supply cost for fort construction as follows:
fort 0->1 1 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 1->2 2 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 2->3 20 tons per fort points
fort 3->4 200 tons per fort points
fort 4->5 2000 tons per fort points
*note each fort point represents 2% toward the next fort level

Ahh cool yea i didn't know if sappers were ever useful i was always attaching separate tank battalions to my RC's. But sappers make a lot of sense.

It's a beta tester patch we're testing.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: jzardos

Bill you might want to update the title of this AAR and include the version of WitE you guys are on? Doesn't seem like you're still on v1.05.18? Or put in post when a new version is being used?

Thanks

There we go
Ara and I are both testers so we're working with the latest beta patches to make sure they are kosher.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

In regards to the RR units unless i missed something you can't control them. The HQ's dispatch them where they want to. If there is a way to control where they go now i'd be glad to hear about it.

By "control" I mean move them to a more appropriate HQ. You should probably move about half of the ones you have back to Stavka (and lock) and then next turn move them to HQs that are in command of forts along the line you want to dig, plus add some more (and lock). 5 RR construction brigades per HQ in the rear area line is not too many, you can always disband the excess in 43 (although I find that building surplus in 41 and keeping them just means I don't use the NKPS units as much).

Right now, your best defensive weapon is the shovel.

I think it's been pointed out earlier that you can put a fortified region unit every 3 hexes along the line you want to fortify. Those FRs shouldn't be under Stavka control, they should report to an HQ chock full of RR construction brigades (there are also construction batallions, but they aren't as good and nobody ever seems to build them, they cost the same number of APs). You can go to fort level 3 in every hex then (see the notes below) and up to level 4 in the hexes occupied by the FRs (but you'll want rifle corps with attached sappers to be able to dig that fast). Once you've reached fort level 3 in the hexes in and either side of the FR you can disband it.

Also, what is this "new beta" you refer to? I thought I had the latest beta which is 1.05.53 and the Axis offensive definitely starts in the first week of March. If it had started in May I may have held Moscow in my current game, but that's just not possible in 1.05.53.

--

20) Changes to Fortification Rules
a. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 5 - Only will be built in port hexes that have a fort unit. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in a swamp hex.
b. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 4 - Must have a fort unit in the hex. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in swamp hex.
c. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 3 - Must be adjacent to an enemy hex, be an urban or city hex, or be in or adjacent to a fort unit. Once the level 3 is reached, the condition does not have to continue to be met to keep the level 3 fort.
d. Fort levels that have reached their maximum fort level for the hex may continue to build up to 10% towards the next fort level.
e. Building forts in mud now uses a .25 modifier (instead of .33).
f. Level 4 and 5 forts do not decay.
g. There is no fort decay on turn 1 of any scenario.
h. Doubled the rate of fort decay.
i. Increased decay rate of low level forts, based on the weather.
Extra decay percentage:
Fort Weather
Level clear snow mud/blizzard
0 20 40 80
1 12 24 48
2 4 8 16
g. Added supply cost for fort construction as follows:
fort 0->1 1 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 1->2 2 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 2->3 20 tons per fort points
fort 3->4 200 tons per fort points
fort 4->5 2000 tons per fort points
*note each fort point represents 2% toward the next fort level

What's the distance a hq can be from the forts to help them with their building? Does it use the "support range" for construction help?

[delatbabel]

ORIGINAL: bwheatley
What's the distance a hq can be from the forts to help them with their building? Does it use the "support range" for construction help?

You have an updated s3kr1t beta the rest of us can't see and you're asking me?

5 hexes.

[bwheatley]

T25 OOB



T28 OOB

[bwheatley]

T28 - Losses



Production


Moscow Area


Central


Voronezh


Southern
Rostov has been liberated


Crimea
The last bottleneck to retaking the whole peninsula has fallen.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

ORIGINAL: bwheatley
What's the distance a hq can be from the forts to help them with their building? Does it use the "support range" for construction help?

You have an updated s3kr1t beta the rest of us can't see and you're asking me?

5 hexes.

I just meant normally. It's using the "support range" listed in the manual right.

[bwheatley]

T34 OOB

Our army is growing but we also see the axis are not taking a ton of casualties about 300k in disabled since T25.

[bwheatley]

T34 production

[bwheatley]

t34 - north



Central



South



Crimea