MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: composer99

I didn't think to mention it earlier but IMO the Japanese are too late to be starting new sealift in mid-1941. Usually the sealift they start with plus another AMPH and 2-3 TRS are enough to get by for the rest of the game.

I don't mean this to sound critical, because I'm not certain I'm right about this, but I'm building with the 1948 ending date in mind, not a 1945 finish. That means I'm probably going to want some extra flexibility when the USA finally has its fleets in position to pester the daylights out of Japan.

[composer99]

Once the built-up US fleet and US land-based air have penetrated to the China Sea (say, in 1944-45), all those extra sealift units are sunk boats sailing.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Here is how things look in the Middle-East now. HQ-I Balbo is set to rail to Persia. I might even make the next impulse a Combined, so that I can fly a FTR over here and also reorganize the MTN unit for an attack later this turn . . . maybe. I'm fully committed now, so Japan has to hold the Arabian Sea.
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Updated pictures of the evaporating front lines for the Soviets are coming up soon.

Can we please put Zhukov back in the front lines now? The desire to swap HQ's has resulted in a breakthrough on this front. That would never have happened if Zhukov's 16 defensive factors had been in the line.

And no, I have zero interest in counter-attacking here.[:-] Oooo isolated and disorganized German armor units![X(] But they are still worth 10 factors and there are 5 Italian Tact factors available to help out. Putting all your eggs in one basket to attempt a brilliant counterattack would be the quickest way to lose as the USSR.

Use all available units for a 3 hex defense: straight across from west to east starting where the 7-4 currently is. You should not hold Tabriz or you will have trouble holding the end point of the line (i.e., the 4th hex) next impulse if Guderian reorganizes the armor group.

The hexes should have 12, 12, and 7 strength point each, for a defensive line of 24, 24, and 15. We'll worry about how to spread this group out into 4 hexes next impulse.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Orm


Since US still has plenty of units to build I think it was to early to add these units to the Force Pool.

I would never add them and consider this a bad mistake (although understandable for a noob). This is even more true for a build startegy like the US has used in this game, which does not concentrate on sea lift. You're going to move the US units first and even when/if you are built out in TRS and Amphs, it's difficult to divert any to move these practically useless units. You will rue this decision every time you build one of these poor units while good US Mech, Mot and Inf sits in the force pool.

Don't forget to "harvest" their pilots. They do a lot better flying US planes that can cooperate with the CW and FF than flying lower range, lower combat factor planes that cannot. The same cooperation issue applies to their land forces and thus makes them an impediment. They can't go to the home country of another allied major power, nor to any aligned (by any ally, including the US) minor. (You harvest them by taking the at-start plane off from a home city of theirs and increasing the US pilot marker by one. Then in a subsequent turn, they man a US plane.)

Occasionally you can use at-start Mexicans to garrison places in the Pacific (if on anti-partisan duty in Japan, you are doing real well). And occasionally you can put at start Brazillians in Italy (but usually not because they can't stack with CW units).

I don't think it's really a mistake. There are no current units from any of these countries in the Force Pools, and there are exactly 2 x FTR-2 popping up in 1942, when the USA will have 68 BP to spend each turn, and 2 x MECH to arrive in 1943, when they'll have 79 BP to spend per turn. I think that over those 2 years, they can probably afford the "lost" 18 BP by building these units. That is just about 2% of the 12-turn total expected BP produced. That isn't really a big deal.

What you should have built was regular infantry for the US. They take longer to arrive but are actually a threat to perform invasions. Invading with divisions and HQ's isn't going to be a serious threat. But plunk down a 6-4 and 7-4 with a division and the Axis has to pay attention.

The US and Commonwealth invading Europe is a fantasy at this point. The USSR is on its own for this turn and the next - probably for the rest of the year.

The US and Commonwealth builds should be looking 3-4 turns ahead, instead of trying a desperate move immediately which fritters away the few units they currently have on the board.

Strategic bombing is the only option, and that won't do very much damage.

[Centuur]

Looking at the USSR, I've come to the conclusion that there isn't any reasonable defensive position available for the Russians at all. To stand and fight means the total elimination of the Russian army.

In the north the USSR can gather a small army around Moscow. However: it is too small to be able to stop the Germans there. It can only stall them for an impulse.After gaining those impulses, the Moscow army should slowly retreat towards the Pacific map.

In the south, things are even worse. Three stacks can retreat towards Kursk and that's it. That means Timoshenko is now in the frontlines. I would railmove him out towards the Caucasus. Also: I would start moving all other fast moving units towards that area too. The INF will remain there as speed bumps and are going to get killed.

If the Russians stay and fight, they will be surrounded in pockets and be eliminated...

[composer99]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: composer99

Instead of invading around Bordeaux I would invade at La Rochelle (where the Yugo cavalry is); you face at best a 3-factor defence (CAV + 1-factor notional). Or invade south of it to face a 2-factor notional only.

Then work to isolate the coastal sector from Bordeaux to Bilbao and mop up any OOS defenders.

That ought to get the Germans' attention.

Also, this is a stronger play than expanding the Danish beachhead (although you should do that as time & units permit) because it's areas that are good defence for the Allies (who can keep supply easily by sea and bring reinforcements from UK & US) and force a very strong commitment from the Axis.

I'd like to do what you all ask, but there isn't anything to use to get the job done.

Below you can see the entire invasion force available to the USA and CW. This includes all of the Marine units and AMPHs they have right now. There are also 4 American, 7 Commonwealth, and 1 Spanish TRS on the map.

Arriving in S/O '41: 2 x TRS for the USA, and 1 x AMPH for the CW
Arriving in N/D '41: 2 x TRS, 2 x AMPH for the USA
Arriving in J/F '41: 1 x Marine Engineer for the USA

Remember, we are just starting Turn #12 and until last turn, the USA had very little production. The best I could do this turn is try to invade against a 2-factor Notional by using 3 American divisions . . . to get a 1:1 attack that I might be able to push up to 3:1 using Shore Bombardment and Ground Support. The problem after that, though, is that even the "weak units" that are holding the coast can probably take care of those invaders before the next impulse, so I wouldn't be able to land an HQ unit or other support.

I don't see the point in invading if you can't hang on to the territory until the end of the turn, particularly during a potentially long turn. I might be able to get the Philly Marine into an invasion sometime this turn, but that AMPH isn't going to be landing anyone else. Yes, the Soviet Union is crumbling, but patience is required here. If I can only mount a single invasion for the entire turn, all Germany has to do is get that unit locked off from advancing. It doesn't need to bring back any forces from the Soviet Front . . . what good would they do anyway? They wouldn't be able to move until next turn, and the Germans have a fresh HQ coming in next turn. Where do you think he'll be heading?

If you have the TRS, bring the 6-4 MAR to the UK. If you have 2 TRS there, invade once the Marines are over with the 6-4 MAR and 2 divisions. Indeed- invade the hex east of Bordeaux (it appears to be invadeable). That hex is too far south for the Rumanians to reinforce in one impulse, and it looks like the Allies can expand the beachhead somehwere.

If you can get 20 factors (8 invading, 8 shore bombardment & 4 ground support) you are golden; if not you should be fine against a 2-factor notional.

If you don't have the forces to expand the beachead (namely, a spare HQ), you will probably have to wait till next turn.

[composer99]

If the Axis blitz stack in Persia that attacked is disorganized, the USSR has time to reform the line all the way from the Turkish border to the Caspian.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Here is how things look in the Middle-East now. HQ-I Balbo is set to rail to Persia. I might even make the next impulse a Combined, so that I can fly a FTR over here and also reorganize the MTN unit for an attack later this turn . . . maybe. I'm fully committed now, so Japan has to hold the Arabian Sea.
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Updated pictures of the evaporating front lines for the Soviets are coming up soon.

Can we please put Zhukov back in the front lines now? The desire to swap HQ's has resulted in a breakthrough on this front. That would never have happened if Zhukov's 16 defensive factors had been in the line.

And no, I have zero interest in counter-attacking here.[:-] Oooo isolated and disorganized German armor units![X(] But they are still worth 10 factors and there are 5 Italian Tact factors available to help out. Putting all your eggs in one basket to attempt a brilliant counterattack would be the quickest way to lose as the USSR.

Use all available units for a 3 hex defense: straight across from west to east starting where the 7-4 currently is. You should not hold Tabriz or you will have trouble holding the end point of the line (i.e., the 4th hex) next impulse if Guderian reorganizes the armor group.

The hexes should have 12, 12, and 7 strength point each, for a defensive line of 24, 24, and 15. We'll worry about how to spread this group out into 4 hexes next impulse.

Agreed. However: for Zhukov it is to late to railmove to the front. If you railmove him there so early in a long turn, he might get into a position where he will be killed, being immobile. I'm against that. Let him stay where he is, or move him towards the northern mountain ranges of the Caucasus. Later in the turn (if the turn is about to end, this might be useful, but now it is dangerous).

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Here is how things look in the Middle-East now. HQ-I Balbo is set to rail to Persia. I might even make the next impulse a Combined, so that I can fly a FTR over here and also reorganize the MTN unit for an attack later this turn . . . maybe. I'm fully committed now, so Japan has to hold the Arabian Sea.
-----
Updated pictures of the evaporating front lines for the Soviets are coming up soon.

Can we please put Zhukov back in the front lines now? The desire to swap HQ's has resulted in a breakthrough on this front. That would never have happened if Zhukov's 16 defensive factors had been in the line.

And no, I have zero interest in counter-attacking here.[:-] Oooo isolated and disorganized German armor units![X(] But they are still worth 10 factors and there are 5 Italian Tact factors available to help out. Putting all your eggs in one basket to attempt a brilliant counterattack would be the quickest way to lose as the USSR.

Use all available units for a 3 hex defense: straight across from west to east starting where the 7-4 currently is. You should not hold Tabriz or you will have trouble holding the end point of the line (i.e., the 4th hex) next impulse if Guderian reorganizes the armor group.

The hexes should have 12, 12, and 7 strength point each, for a defensive line of 24, 24, and 15. We'll worry about how to spread this group out into 4 hexes next impulse.

Agreed. However: for Zhukov it is to late to railmove to the front. If you railmove him there so early in a long turn, he might get into a position where he will be killed, being immobile. I'm against that. Let him stay where he is, or move him towards the northern mountain ranges of the Caucasus. Later in the turn (if the turn is about to end, this might be useful, but now it is dangerous).

Well, that was the idea last turn, but it ended early and the Axis got a double-impulse. It happens. He was off the front line for a single impulse at the end of last turn. That's all. Bad luck for Mother Russia.
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Edit: By the way, who would have suggested a counter-attack? Certainly not me.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: composer99

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: composer99

Instead of invading around Bordeaux I would invade at La Rochelle (where the Yugo cavalry is); you face at best a 3-factor defence (CAV + 1-factor notional). Or invade south of it to face a 2-factor notional only.

Then work to isolate the coastal sector from Bordeaux to Bilbao and mop up any OOS defenders.

That ought to get the Germans' attention.

Also, this is a stronger play than expanding the Danish beachhead (although you should do that as time & units permit) because it's areas that are good defence for the Allies (who can keep supply easily by sea and bring reinforcements from UK & US) and force a very strong commitment from the Axis.

I'd like to do what you all ask, but there isn't anything to use to get the job done.

Below you can see the entire invasion force available to the USA and CW. This includes all of the Marine units and AMPHs they have right now. There are also 4 American, 7 Commonwealth, and 1 Spanish TRS on the map.

Arriving in S/O '41: 2 x TRS for the USA, and 1 x AMPH for the CW
Arriving in N/D '41: 2 x TRS, 2 x AMPH for the USA
Arriving in J/F '41: 1 x Marine Engineer for the USA

Remember, we are just starting Turn #12 and until last turn, the USA had very little production. The best I could do this turn is try to invade against a 2-factor Notional by using 3 American divisions . . . to get a 1:1 attack that I might be able to push up to 3:1 using Shore Bombardment and Ground Support. The problem after that, though, is that even the "weak units" that are holding the coast can probably take care of those invaders before the next impulse, so I wouldn't be able to land an HQ unit or other support.

I don't see the point in invading if you can't hang on to the territory until the end of the turn, particularly during a potentially long turn. I might be able to get the Philly Marine into an invasion sometime this turn, but that AMPH isn't going to be landing anyone else. Yes, the Soviet Union is crumbling, but patience is required here. If I can only mount a single invasion for the entire turn, all Germany has to do is get that unit locked off from advancing. It doesn't need to bring back any forces from the Soviet Front . . . what good would they do anyway? They wouldn't be able to move until next turn, and the Germans have a fresh HQ coming in next turn. Where do you think he'll be heading?

If you have the TRS, bring the 6-4 MAR to the UK. If you have 2 TRS there, invade once the Marines are over with the 6-4 MAR and 2 divisions. Indeed- invade the hex east of Bordeaux (it appears to be invadeable). That hex is too far south for the Rumanians to reinforce in one impulse, and it looks like the Allies can expand the beachhead somehwere.

If you can get 20 factors (8 invading, 8 shore bombardment & 4 ground support) you are golden; if not you should be fine against a 2-factor notional.

If you don't have the forces to expand the beachead (namely, a spare HQ), you will probably have to wait till next turn.

I agree. You should put pressure on the Axis. There aren't enough Axis units in range to attack you, so all it really takes are two Div and the MAR. If a third TRS is available, you can put the HQ in the hex in the next impulse. It is dangerous, but I think doing nothing to make the Germans nervous, is going to be far more dangerous. You are looking at a possible conquest of the USSR next year, if the Germans succeed in eliminating the Russian army this turn. Therefore you have to put so much pressure on the German assets, that they really need to extract units from the Russian front. And by units I mean the high factor combat units. Also: those units will not be able to attack you this turn, since they need to be railed and will be disorganised. They cannot counterattack you until nex turn. Imagine four high factor units leaving Russia for France. That's a lot less factors to eliminate USSR units.

[Red Prince]

I'll look into the possibilities. I do have HQ and TRS to spare for the USA/CW. It's just a matter of seeing if I can get them to the right places all at once. It might be possible around the 3rd and 4th Allied Impulses

[composer99]

One thing to note is that if carried out, this invasion is not meant to be a permanent, strategic invasion of Europe, unless of course the Germans ignore it.

Once the Germans start sending over real units, ideally the Allies will have ports to fall back on to evacuate their good units, leaving Brazilians & US MIL units (they may have a use after all!) as a rearguard/nuisance - while invading somewhere else to start it all over again.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Here's the cleaner image. You can see that the Russians are going to have a lot of ZOCs to deal with in trying to pull back. It can be done, though . . . sort of. The 2 isolated units northwest of Bryansk should even be able to pull back a hex without getting disorganized.

As the Germans, I decided to let some of my army catch up in the North. To make this work, I had to create as many ZOC situations as I could. If the Russians really wanted to try it, they could probably take out a few of the units that have pushed forward as bait. Some are even very good units, but they would require at least 2 stacks to kill. If the Russians stick that much of there force in a single place to make an attack, it can only help Germany get through the lines.

Something to note: the Southern Front is going to have a 9-5 ARM and a 9-5 MECH rushing in to reinforce it in 2 impulses.

While it isn't on this map below, I think the attack in Persia was worthwhile. If I waited an impulse, the Soviets would have a unit in each of the 5 hexes, and this was the best attack I was going to be able to get, since all but one of those hexes can only be attacked from a single hexside. Now the Russians have to abandon Tabriz if they want a contiguous line, and they will no longer have the luxury of having a full line that can be attacked from only 1 hexside each.

Please tell me that you haven't made your rail moves yet.

Yeremenko (near Moscow) rails to Krasnodar; he is joined by the Para via air transport. The 40th Garr moves into Novorossiysk. This limits the Germans to 1 hex from which to attack (for the moment). 16:5 or 16:11 in a city.

The units in Rostov stay there.

The Dnep. Mil rails to Stavropol. He defends the Caucasus.[;)] Hopefully the remnants of the defenders on the Kerch straits will be able to join him.

The 1st Mot Div and the 3-2 in Stalino die there alone.

Going to the north, ...
The Gorki Mil dies in Talinin.

The 51st Inf and Moscow Mil move to the hex SW of Moscow (they can only be attacked from 1 hex). Next impulse they retreat into Moscow.

The 2nd Siberian and 2nd Mech move 2 hexes SE (they will only be attackable from 1 hex). The Kiev Mil moves one hex east (disorganizes) and the the 4th Siberian moves 1 hex SE (stays organized). The 4th GD Div moves into Vitebsk. The 39th Inf move to the hex west of Vitebsk.

The 2nd Mot moves to the hex east of Gomel and is joined by the 3rd Mech.

The Stalino Mil moves 1 hex west. He is going to die there but he interferes with the Axis movement.

The 4th Mech and 13th Mech move NE. The 2nd Armor joins them (14 factors).

The 1st Armor moves to the hex NW of Kharkov. It is joined by the 8-5 GD Mech (15 factors).

The AA moves 2 hexes NW. Its purpose is to prevent the Germans from charging through the hole in the line. The Germans do not have units capable of attacking him there on the blitz table.

Timoshenko moves into Kharkov and Koniev moves into the hex where Timoshenko was sitting.

The goal here it to sacrifice 6 weak units and escape with the best units through the center of the line. The HQ's are too far forward here but there is nothing to be done about that.

[Red Prince]

Don't worry. I got tired and haven't even chosen my Actions yet for the impulse, Steve. [:)] Too much to think about, and a lot of thoughts to consider from others.

The 2nd Siberian and 2nd Mech move 2 hexes SE (they will only be attackable from 1 hex). The Kiev Mil moves one hex east (disorganizes) and the the 4th Siberian moves 1 hex SE (stays organized). The 4th GD Div moves into Vitebsk. The 39th Inf move to the hex west of Vitebsk.

Isn't Vitebsk already behind the Germans? Do you mean Bryansk? Kursk?

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Use the Mexicans for garrison duty in the Pacific and send the Brazilians to Senagal to begin the build-up for the Moroccan campaign.

Instead of invading around Bordeaux I would invade at La Rochelle (where the Yugo cavalry is); you face at best a 3-factor defence (CAV + 1-factor notional). Or invade south of it to face a 2-factor notional only.

Then work to isolate the coastal sector from Bordeaux to Bilbao and mop up any OOS defenders.

That ought to get the Germans' attention.

Also, this is a stronger play than expanding the Danish beachhead (although you should do that as time & units permit) because it's areas that are good defence for the Allies (who can keep supply easily by sea and bring reinforcements from UK & US) and force a very strong commitment from the Axis.

Unless Senegal is conquered, the Brazillians can't go there without FTC and since there is no Brazillian HQ....

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

The Allies desperately need the first move next turn. If not, the CW risks having 2 of its TRS trapped in India . . . unless they can dislodge the Japanese fleet that is going to try to take the Arabian Sea. The Americans have Battleships and CVs on the way, but they won't be able to reach a high sea box next turn.

This is not a huge problem, as you can take a naval with the US or CW and put something in the sea zone which instantly puts all the rest in supply.

Unless it is killed in an interception by the Japanese . . .

Idealy you use one in a port already in the sea zone. So it flips - BFD, it still provides supply for the other units. The JP can't search until after the Allies are done searching (and moving). Now if the JP fleet is so superior, you risk a lot just venturing out, than the units in question shouldn't have RTB'd there in the first place.

[Red Prince]

I was too brain-tired to try to set anything up for the Allies, so I did some brainless work instead, searching through my notes to see if the die rolls were evening out over the course of the game. So, through the first impulse of Turn #12, here's what I found:

I recorded 476 die rollls on a 1 D10, and they averaged out to 5.655, which is 0.155 over what you would expect (5.5)
I recorded 58 die rolls on a 2D10, and they averaged out to 11.07, which is almost dead on what you would expect (10.5)
I recorded 75 Fractional Odds rolls, and they averaged out to .503, which is again very close to what you would expect (.4995)
There were 47 weather rolls, and not including the modifiers, the average wearther roll was 5.68, which is again, just over the average (5.5)

What this tells me is that while the rolls do average out over the course of a game, "luck" can be defined by how often a particular roll shows up when it actually matters. The dice (simulator) has no idea if the attack or search roll matters. That's an emotional response we place on the needs of the moment. And, in this game, the luck has been favoring the Axis, I suppose, to a fairly large extent. Early on it was favoring the Allies in terms of USE chits drawn. The more active a side is, the more "luck" it is bound to see, I expect.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Orm


Since US still has plenty of units to build I think it was to early to add these units to the Force Pool.

I would never add them and consider this a bad mistake (although understandable for a noob). This is even more true for a build startegy like the US has used in this game, which does not concentrate on sea lift. You're going to move the US units first and even when/if you are built out in TRS and Amphs, it's difficult to divert any to move these practically useless units. You will rue this decision every time you build one of these poor units while good US Mech, Mot and Inf sits in the force pool.

Don't forget to "harvest" their pilots. They do a lot better flying US planes that can cooperate with the CW and FF than flying lower range, lower combat factor planes that cannot. The same cooperation issue applies to their land forces and thus makes them an impediment. They can't go to the home country of another allied major power, nor to any aligned (by any ally, including the US) minor. (You harvest them by taking the at-start plane off from a home city of theirs and increasing the US pilot marker by one. Then in a subsequent turn, they man a US plane.)

Occasionally you can use at-start Mexicans to garrison places in the Pacific (if on anti-partisan duty in Japan, you are doing real well). And occasionally you can put at start Brazillians in Italy (but usually not because they can't stack with CW units).

I don't think it's really a mistake. There are no current units from any of these countries in the Force Pools, and there are exactly 2 x FTR-2 popping up in 1942, when the USA will have 68 BP to spend each turn, and 2 x MECH to arrive in 1943, when they'll have 79 BP to spend per turn. I think that over those 2 years, they can probably afford the "lost" 18 BP by building these units. That is just about 2% of the 12-turn total expected BP produced. That isn't really a big deal.

We may differ on the impact but it really is a mistake. The BPs spent when you draw them are basically a complete waste. Saying you have a surfeit of BPs is a poor rationale indeed. The wondeful thing (and the curse) about the US is that there's always good stuff to build. Plus by '43 you'll want an O-chit every turn so you can get the stuff to where it needs to go. (Super - Combined)

Would you ever do it again after considering the downsides (and lack of any upside except a few pilots, Edit: which you normally get anyway when going to war at the usual time in '42)?

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: paulderynck



This is not a huge problem, as you can take a naval with the US or CW and put something in the sea zone which instantly puts all the rest in supply.

Unless it is killed in an interception by the Japanese . . .

Idealy you use one in a port already in the sea zone. So it flips - BFD, it still provides supply for the other units. The JP can't search until after the Allies are done searching (and moving). Now if the JP fleet is so superior, you risk a lot just venturing out, than the units in question shouldn't have RTB'd there in the first place.

I missed a step, forgetting that you don't have to fight and can simply stop in the sea area . . . you're right.

As to the ships returning to that particular port, perhaps they should have returned to Bombay instead, since it was the only other Major Port within good striking distance. Truth be known, I was just so used to using Aden as a base of operations that I didn't think about it.

[paulderynck]

Vulnerability-wise they are equal. It is only the supply consideration that favors Bombay.