Some Things About SP WaW

jaro · Post by **jaro** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 4:05 pm

I found some new info about german WW2 firecontrol systems so:
Panther D used binocular Turmzielfenrohr 12b and Panther A had monocular version of Turmzielfenrohr 12 witch was by my meaning much better.
For example:
PzKpfw VIE Tiger used binocular Turmzielfenrohr 9b, but in april 1944 it was replaced with modern Turmzielfenrohr 9D witch was a monocular.
PzKpfw VIB King Tiger used in Porshe Turret version binocular Turmzielfenrohr 9b.Henschel version was equiped with monocular D version and all old Porshe models were later reequiped with this new version.
I found bugs in SP WaW.In Preparing the Way (Utah to the Rhine too) when i have destroyed Truck with loaded infantry, escaped infantry deploys as a halftrack.All French vehicles when are destroyed didnt show wreckages,just the fire.

About Para and Glider Deploing.Why we can't assign route as for other aircraft?
What about Infiltration time set up?I thing that Commandos action wasn't executed when they arrive at the place, but they knows a time when the action begins and they starts at this time.(You set time at 3.Turn and units witch made it, will arive at this turn.)

What do you think about this: German Sniper destroyed T-34/76 M41 in close attack with sniper rifle.I could not believe my eyes.(It happend to me two or three times in Long Campaign).

Displayng Messages in lower pannel is very good idea, but what about displaying info about penetration of weapons and accuracy too.I always play WaW with message delay set on 0,00 seconds for speed up game, but sometimes informations about penetrations and accuracy may comes very usefull.

Bonzo · Post by **Bonzo** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 6:24 pm

you probably want to upgrade your OOB's to the latest version. These are available at Tankhead's site at:
[url="http://tankhead__1.tripod.com/"]http://tankhead__1.tripod.com/[/url]

This might fix up your squad to halftrack problem. What version of the game are you running?

Being able to forcast, to within a few minutes, when your Commandos will arrive is not particularly realistic. While it would be nice to have a "Do not arrive before turn X" with a slight probability of an early arrival & no garantee of when they would arrive after that point, it probably isn't possible to do in v4.6.

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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
Main http://nwbattalion.tripod.com
Mirror http://dreadnaught.home.icq.com
E-mail nwbattalion@icqmail.com

jaro · Post by **jaro** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 6:41 pm

I'm running 4.5 version.
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Jaro Jakubov
Jameson@Post.sk

Bonzo · Post by **Bonzo** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 7:09 pm

The OOB problems (squad to halftrank, French tanks - no wrecks) could be caused by the older set of OOB's that came with v4.5, or could be a result of changes in the OOB's since the campaign was last updated. You could update your OOB's now, or wait for the v4.6 patch which is expected soon, perhaps this week. Either way, the OOB's are the same.

As the upcoming version 4.6 is anticipated to be the last one for a while, I would expect that the creators of the various scenarios and campaigns will gradually get arround to making any needed adjustments. Given the sheer volume of Wild Bill's work, and his myriad duties, it probably won't happen overnight.

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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
Main http://nwbattalion.tripod.com
E-mail nwbattalion@icqmail.com

Kluckenbill · Post by **Kluckenbill** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 7:19 pm

jaro, your coments on the German fire control systems brings up a question I've had ever since playing 'Panzer Commander'.
Did any WW2 tanks have coincidence or stereoscopic range finders?

I had always thought that none had them, but I've seen pictures of German TC's using a device that looks like a miniature version of an artillery range finder. However, I would think that any range finder with only a few inches between the two optical elements would be rather innacurate. The coincidence range finders on our old M60A1's spanned the entire turret.

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Target, Cease Fire !

jaro · Post by **jaro** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 7:29 pm

No they didn't.Just Command or Artylery FO tanks have a Rangefinders.
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Jaro

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 7:34 pm

Originally posted by Kluckenbill:
jaro, your coments on the German fire control systems brings up a question I've had ever since playing 'Panzer Commander'.
Did any WW2 tanks have coincidence or stereoscopic range finders?

I had always thought that none had them, but I've seen pictures of German TC's using a device that looks like a miniature version of an artillery range finder. However, I would think that any range finder with only a few inches between the two optical elements would be rather innacurate. The coincidence range finders on our old M60A1's spanned the entire turret.

The Sturms were part of the artillery and they had a real emphasis on accurate fire. They were equipped with arty type binocular range finders. See: http://rkka.domainvalet.com/h-tacts.htm and follow the links for Stugs.

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An old soldier but not yet a faded one.
OK, maybe just a bit faded.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 7:40 pm

Originally posted by jaro:
...
I found bugs in SP WaW....
What do you think about this: German Sniper destroyed T-34/76 M41 in close attack with sniper rifle.I could not believe my eyes.(It happend to me two or three times in Long Campaign).

It has been mentioned before by Matrix (Paul V. I think) that sometimes soldiers "acquire things" like grenades, etc. on the battlefield that are not on the standard weapons list. Human ingeuinity is limitless, perhaps the sniper rammed a log into the tracks then fired into the hatch when it opened. Agreed that this kind of thing should be rare but it is possible. That's what medals are for.

Displayng Messages in lower pannel is very good idea, but what about displaying info about penetration of weapons and accuracy too.I always play WaW with message delay set on 0,00 seconds for speed up game, but sometimes informations about penetrations and accuracy may comes very usefull.

I'd like to seem them written to a log also (tee that output?) for review.

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An old soldier but not yet a faded one.
OK, maybe just a bit faded.

jaro · Post by **jaro** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 7:55 pm

I had lost two T-34/76 M41 tanks due to sniper close attack in one battle.

Kluckenbill · Post by **Kluckenbill** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 8:30 pm

Originally posted by Larry Holt:

The Sturms were part of the artillery and they had a real emphasis on accurate fire. They were equipped with arty type binocular range finders. See: http://rkka.domainvalet.com/h-tacts.htm and follow the links for Stugs.

Now that you mention it, it was a picture of a STUG with the range finder sticking out of the commander's hatch.

I also remember reading somewhere that the Panther 2 was going to have an 88 L71 gun with an integrated rangefinder (much like in the M60) anyone know if this is correct?

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Target, Cease Fire !

jaro · Post by **jaro** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 8:55 pm

Yes Panther II has a rangefinder,but just as a plan for serial models.Only one Panther II was build but with turret from Panther G ver.(i think it is somewhere as exponate in USA)

jaro

Toey · Post by **Toey** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 2:21 am

"About Para and Glider Deploing.Why we can't assign route as for other aircraft?
What about Infiltration time set up?"

You can! Just like you assign an air attack. You can select the entry and exit direction of the Gliders/Transport Aircraft.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 5:34 am

my info (Handbook of the German Army, LSU press) lists the T.Z.F12 hAsa 29 degree field of view and light and dark filters, the T.Z.F12a has only a 19 degree field of view and by being monocular tends to be more susceptable to eye strain (having been an old DDG director officer, staring through a binocular dvice is far more plesant than having to cover one eye or defocus...gives you a headache after a short bit...

My experince may not be appicable, but that was my rational ... If you have a better rationale for the other being better I'm open to it!

Don Doom · Post by **Don Doom** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 5:42 am

Which DDG?

Don

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 11:33 am

"Have Warship - Will Travel - Wire Waddell, San Diego " USS Waddell..Durable, Dependable Greyhound #24

Named for the Confederate Captain of the commerce raider CSS Shenendoah, and also the inventor of "Westpac"cruises

After the war instead of surrendering, he decided to jaunt on down to Australia and allow his ship to be interned there, and hung out for a while

I think we sold it the Greeks 10 years or so ago.

[This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited January 09, 2001).]

jaro · Post by **jaro** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 3:06 pm

Ok But why Panther G, PzKpfw VIB KingTiger
(all with monocular) has FC better than Panther D(binocular)?

frank1970 · Post by **frank1970** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 4:30 pm

I am a scientist and work a lot with microscopes. I would prefer a binocluar, too.
It is much better for your eyes.

jaro · Post by **jaro** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 7:09 pm

Ok, But simplest thing when you shoot from handgun or rifle is close one of your eyes for better aiming.

If binoculars are better why KingTiger has
FC 7?(all Henshell ver. has monocular Turmzielfenrohr 9D)

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 11:30 pm

I would GUESS that a monocular scope is easier to design and build than binocular. As for range finding, the aiming triangles in the sight itself are fairly useful for QUICKLY determining range, and angle-off "lead" for moving targets. Much more so than the standard cross-hairs of western vehicles (and i believe russian).

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 11:52 pm

I've read that the average tank to tank engagement in WWII was under 500 meters (at least for the west front). I believe that this was in the Notes accompaning the West Front Board game (West front version of PanzerBlitz). If this is so, how important is the range finder at all, relative to battle sight firing of the tank?

The concept is that you set the sights to coincide with a target at some distance. If you shoot straight at it, without determining range and elevating the gun for longer ranges, you will hit the target as the projectile will drop some but not less than the standard target height (e.g. height of a T-72 at 1200 meters for the current US Army, unknown by me for WWII armies). Tankers is this still correct?

So if WWII tanks used the battle sight concept their accuracy for targets out to the designated distance would be a function of the accuracy of the barrel, speed and aerodynamics of the projectile and would be independent of the accuracy of any rangefinder.

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An old soldier but not yet a faded one.
OK, maybe just a bit faded.