The Great Patriotic AAR III (No glvaca please)

[Flaviusx]

If an HQ has poor generals, always relocate them when isolated. This is a no brainer. If they have good ones, you can either spend the APs to put a dingbat leader in there and relocate it hoping that it kills him off...or leave it in situ and wait for the Axis to displace it.

[Tarhunnas]

But won't relocation have other bad effects, on attached support units for example?

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 4 after Soviet moves.

I pull back my carpet on the landbridge in expectation of buildup here.

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 5. Map before Soviet moves. The Germans have made a pocket at Velikie Luki. That took me be surprise, I hadn't expected them to turn that way. Nicely done by my opponent!

Otherwise not much happening. The Southern front is almost suspiciously qiuet.

I note that glvaca is a little bit sloppy with pocket clearing. I have a number of isolated units wandering about behind his front. That will tie down units chasing them, and one of them might walk onto a rail line.

[Tarhunnas]

Closeup of Velikie Luki pocket. That hurts, but OTOH it will place the panzers in a bad supply situation, and poorly placed to attack towards Leningrad. This might have bought a turn for Leningrad and Moscow, at the price of most of the Reserve Front though.

[Tarhunnas]

Wandering units doing their best to make a nuisance of themselves behind the German front. One division has started the liberation of Poland!

[Zonso]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

But won't relocation have other bad effects, on attached support units for example?

Actually iirc all of the SUs get a free ride out - magic!

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Zonso

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

But won't relocation have other bad effects, on attached support units for example?

Actually iirc all of the SUs get a free ride out - magic!

Yes, you are right, it says so in the manual, but they suffer retreat attrition. I thought SUs attached to isolated HQs were destroyed when the HQ is displaced by the enemy, but according to this not when relocated? That would be extremely odd. Please enlighten me if anyone knows more about this.

[notenome]

They aren't destroyed, they just get mauled. Support units attached to an HQ is an abstraction, as those units are not actually at the HQs location (or else they'd be incapable of participating in most combats) but instead moving about between the different combat units they are supporting. So when these units dislocate out of a pocket, that's an abstraction that during the formation of the pocket these units were everywhere (along the HQs command radius) and different amounts were encircled or not.

[Tarhunnas]

So, all in all, what is the verdict of the jury? Is it better to relocate them out, probably to a silly location where they will be displaced again by the enemy next turn, or leave them in place to be displaced by the enemy just once? Intuitively, one would guess the second.

[gingerbread]

You can displace twice if you're not happy with the result of the first - more attrition, but you avoid the risk of having a Corps HQ disband while isolated.
You do not want that.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

You can displace twice if you're not happy with the result of the first - more attrition, but you avoid the risk of having a Corps HQ disband while isolated.
You do not want that.

Risk? [X(] I am happy to see them gone without having to spend AP on disbanding them!

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 6. I forgot to take a screenshot at the start of my turn (Server game... ). That was because i was so agitated that glvaca had surprised me again, this time in the South. A panzer thurst behind my front cuts down and captures Odessa, encircling most of Southern Front! Bad! I am having second thoughts about this picket and MLR thing, this sort of thing didn't happen when I was using hug the panzers. Or maybe my MLR is too far forward? Or maybe I just haven't adjusted.

With hug the panzers, you know where they are and you have your main strength there. With picket and MLR, the problem is that the panzers can hit any part of your front, not as hard, but more unexpectedly.

Map of the south after Soviet moves. As you can see, it proved possible to break the pocket by a concerted attack, retreating no less than three panzer regiments! At leat there is one advantage of the MLR - you have a ready counterattack force (if the whole MLR isn't surrounded that is).

[Tarhunnas]

A closeup of the attack sector. I also retreat a couple of infantry regiments in front of Kiev, just to blow off some steam and because I can!

Well, he will reseal the pocket, but it will take a turn, and we are still west of the Dnepr at turn 6. Always something.

[Tarhunnas]

In the north and center, not much happening. He is digesting the Velikie Luki pocket. A shot of the defenses of Leningrad. Turn 6 after Soviet moves.

[Tarhunnas]

Losses after turn 6.

[Tarhunnas]

And OOB. Glvaca is taking better care of his panzers, letting them rest and refit and not driving them so hard. 1500 operational AFV.

[Flaviusx]

An HQ that disbands while isolated won't send its manpower or elements back to the replacement pool, Tarhunnas. That's a lot of bodies.

And, yes, your MLR down south was too far forward. I would have moved it back 2-3 hexes behind the river. And you really ought to have a garrison in Odessa by turn 6.

[Klydon]

He may be doing ok with losses, etc but he isn't setting any records as far as a meaningful advance. Just now capturing Pskov? Will see how it turns out, but so far I think you are doing ok from the looks of things.

[notenome]

This is something I learned the hard way in my game vs 821, defending to the west of the Luga is a bad idea, you want to make a line running from Novgorod all the way to the outskirts of Leningrad, if not a lot of your units may get flanked and smashed against either the lake or the Baltic.

Apologies for the small picture, culled it from one of your shots. Red is where you are, Yellow is a short term pocket and black is the long term pocket threat. Blue is where I suggest you pull back to (not all at once, of course).