OT: WITP-AE

[hfarrish]

I have never been a big Pacific theatre guy but given the love everyone seems to have for WITP-AE I went over to its forum to check it out - and I return terrified. You have to set up how fuel moves between multiple islands and pick the individual transports that move it?

It's obviously an extremely popular game, so should I be afraid to pick it up and take it for a test drive? NB: I don't have a lot of spare time, maybe an hour or two (at the max) per day for gaming.

[Phanatikk]

Not just fuel. You have to manage supply, oil, fuel, and resources.

It's a logistician's [wet] dream. har har

- Phan

[Flaviusx]

Definitely an acquired taste. One which I don't have. I played the original WITP back in the day a couple of times and that was good enough for me, and in any case my bias is for continental warfare. That business between Japan and the USA was kind of a sideshow from my viewpoint. [:)]

[hfarrish]

Side note for you Flavius - any thoughts on books regarding the individual Soviet fighting man other than Ivan's War (which I have...)? I know that there just isn't that much material out there given the literacy rate and reasons for caution that would have limited Soviet soldiers willing to write about their experiences...

[Footslogger]

If you are serious about becoming a follower of WitP-AE, there is a guy here know as Mike Solli and he has spreadsheets and charts of how to manage your resources. Welcome to the Madness![:D]

[hfarrish]

Ha, that is what I am reading now (a Mike Solli AAR) and it is frightening!

[usersatch]

Spreadsheets are a must, especially late in the war when ships and planes come pouring in.

[Encircled]

Most of my working life has been in the field of logistics, and I play WITE against the AI.

And its ridiculously complex, but massive fun.

The really good bit about it is that its been tweaked about as well as it can be, and the players work around the obvious problems*

*which are not that major in any case

One of the reasons I started playing it was that I couldn't commit the time to PBEM at WITE due to RL, and playing against the AI isn't any good at all. I can grab a couple of free hours here and there and meander along without feeling any pressure to get a turn out as the AI is quite a challenge.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
You have to set up how fuel moves between multiple islands and pick the individual transports that move it?

Yes [:)] There's the auto-convoy option, but no serious WitP AE player uses it (except for bases far in the rear).

The thing is everything is absolutely intermingled. First of all the ships must arrive (fuel and supplies). Then you can start building the airfield, port, fortifications. Engineers will be needed. But of course, you will then need airplanes to protect the base (fighters and then level bombers)... The airplanes will need an AA unit to protect them. They will also need infantry to protect the base... And the infantry will need support (bring support units: base units in the game)...

Then the base will need protection from the sea: mines, surface TFs...

Etc etc

That's the whole thing: it's -again-, totally intermingled... Lots of variables, options, flexibility. Logistics of the highest degree that is. In fact, you will notice most of us love -above all other things- the logistical thing of the game.

Because it is really about logistics (what professionals do, right? [8D]). And from time to time, the firecrackers: naval, land, air battles, amphibious operations...

[PaxMondo]

Scary thing is looking at the number of public AAR's here versus the number of AE AAR's ... actually a sad commentary. I don't know if the number of ongoing public AAR's correlates to games sales well, but if it does .... as old as AE is, there are still so many active AAR's going on. And this is a game that if it goes to conclusion takes +2years of RL.

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Scary thing is looking at the number of public AAR's here versus the number of AE AAR's ... actually a sad commentary. I don't know if the number of ongoing public AAR's correlates to games sales well, but if it does .... as old as AE is, there are still so many active AAR's going on. And this is a game that if it goes to conclusion takes +2years of RL.

I suspect this game is being played primarily solo, and WITP is mostly being played by PBEM. Quite frankly, this game has serious PBEM problems and the design isn't as mature as the pacific game's, so that is about what I would expect. Whereas WITPAE isn't what I would call a casual or solo friendly game. Anybody playing it is almost by definition a stone cold fanatic. The level of enthusiasm is going to be high, but not necessarily reflective of the numbers who are playing the game.

[hfarrish]

I haven't seen anything dissuading me from my terror at trying to jump into WITP-AE. I respect those who do it, but given my time constraints I can't imagine I would be able to play it in the way it deserves to be played, particularly since I am a purely PBEM guy.

[hfarrish]

Part of it, and this is not an original thought, is that everyone accepts that Japan will lose to the US, whereas there is sharp disagreement regarding whether Germany could or could not have won the war - I think this strongly influences player experience in WITE.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: hfarrish


I haven't seen anything dissuading me from my terror at trying to jump into WITP-AE. I respect those who do it, but given my time constraints I can't imagine I would be able to play it in the way it deserves to be played, particularly since I am a purely PBEM guy.

If anything, you need some historical knowledge to play the game. Why? Simply because without this knowledge the task is daunting... What do to? An inmense ocean, continents, atolls, islands... And then thousands of ships (literally to the last miserable cargo ship!) that you should be putting to good use...

If you don't have the books no need to spend money. The Hyperwar site has everything (and for free) you might need to know [8D]

[hfarrish]

Thanks TD - much appreciated...I'll start with the books...

[DivePac88]

WitP-AE is a beautiful game, and once you learn the basics yo will be hooked.

But be warned; that it is also a like very intoxicating drug, and can gobble up your life.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Scary thing is looking at the number of public AAR's here versus the number of AE AAR's ... actually a sad commentary. I don't know if the number of ongoing public AAR's correlates to games sales well, but if it does .... as old as AE is, there are still so many active AAR's going on. And this is a game that if it goes to conclusion takes +2years of RL.

I suspect this game is being played primarily solo, and WITP is mostly being played by PBEM. Quite frankly, this game has serious PBEM problems and the design isn't as mature as the pacific game's, so that is about what I would expect. Whereas WITPAE isn't what I would call a casual or solo friendly game. Anybody playing it is almost by definition a stone cold fanatic. The level of enthusiasm is going to be high, but not necessarily reflective of the numbers who are playing the game.

Flaviusx,

Good points, and I have no idea as to numbers.

I only play AI as I can't get the time to commit to a PBEM, and I would really like to. I know several other 'veteran' posters in the same boat. According to comments the AE devs have made in the past, AI players outnumber the PBEM players by a wide margin ... but does that mean there are 20 of us or 26? [:D]

[Q-Ball]

I have played both pretty extensively. I played WITE when it came out, and I think had a couple pretty popular AARs and was a frequent contributor here on this forum. And I like WITE alot still, it's a very good game.....

...but WITP_AE is better. It's much more involved, and much more complex, but has a strategic depth that WITE doesn't have at this point.

Maybe it's the nature of Eastern Front warfare, but WITE right now devovles into a WWI smashing after awhile, with some mobile breakouts, but still centered on a single line along the whole front.

WITP AE isn't about front lines.....there is a strategic depth beyond that, that centers more on supplies, the operating radius of various aircraft, and the fleet.

It took 6 years though to get WITP-AE to that level of depth. Given a couple more years of development, I think WITE and it's future iterations can get there......and will. I am just impatient and dont' want to wait.

WITE is a great game, but WITP-AE is better. That could absolutely change down the road, to the better for WITE, but that's the way it is now, IMO.

[morganbj]

AE is the best game ever designed (well, redesigned). Period.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
It's obviously an extremely popular game...

...among a miniscule niche of hard-core logistics fanatics... [:'(]

I wish I could find a game I loved so much, but it definitely doesn't sound like WitP-AE is it. The closest game for me was Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin.