What are the different departments on a WWII Japanese Naval Ship?

[1EyedJacks]

I'm looking at the Kuma class CLs and they have a crew complement of about 450 with approximately 50 of those being officers.

I'm clueless of the way a naval ship is run. I assume 2 shifts Day/Night?

What are the different departments aboard a Japanese WWII naval Kuma Class CL?

Command
Engineering
Commo
Supply
Guns
Torpedoes
AA
Damage Control

What am I missing? How large would these departments be? I'm guessing a crew for the main guns would be 5-7 sailors? What do 42-45 officers do on a CL? What do another 400 sailirs do?

[spence]

I don't think anybody will be too surprised if I say I can not address an WWII IJN light cruiser's Watch Quarter and Station Bill directly but I did serve on a ship that still had its "WQSB" from WW2 on board and was tasked with adjusting certain aspects of it to fit with the much, much reduced manning of a late 1970s Coast Guard Cutter to deal with an increasingly demanding routine of boarding operations for fisheries/drug enforcement.

Said cutter, USCGC Bibb, was a very large (for the early WW2 time) escort vessel of 2700 tons, was armed with 2 5"/51s, 4 3"/50s, 8 20mm's, 6 K-guns (for side thrown depth charges) and twin DC rails on the stern. There may also have been some .50 and .30 cal MGs that the Chief Gunners Mate may have forgotten to give back to the Navy when the ship was in the yards. The ship carried 308 crewman and 25 officers (1 of which was a doctor). The engineering plant consisted of 2 boilers, two steam turbines, and two steam generators and could move the ship at 20-22 kts depending on last time the bottom was scraped. Standard speed was 15 kts. (NOTE: this was 1/2 of a DD's engineering plant - the ship was longer winded than a DD but not as fast - the USS Charleston "fake" Light Cruiser had the same hull and engineering plant) This class of ship also served as an AGC in the latter part of the war (Southern France, Philippines, Okinawa) but I never found any records of the Bibb's service in this capacity.

It was organized into 4 departments (each composed of Divisions led by a junior officer and some ratings concerned with the maintenance of the specific equipment mentioned):

Weapons - Main guns, AA guns and Depth Charges, Ship's Boats
Operations - Radio, Radar, Signals, Navigation, increasingly Electronics
Engineering - Engines, Boilers, Electrical, all mech systems, Damage Control
Supply - General Supply, Commissary, Medical

The ship's normal routine steaming was called Port and Starboard: half the crew on watch at a time. That was convenient in that although racks were set up everywhere there weren't enough to go around for the crew so the junior men got to "hot rack" it (share their bed with another crewman in the other watch section).

The ship was commanded by a Captain (O-6, not an O-3 like in the game). Because of its "roomy" accommodations the ship might also embark another Captain who commanded the Support Group (of escorts).

Weapons Department was concerned with the maintenance of all the ship's weapons systems and also included the Deck Force which was concerned with maintaining the general ship's structure. It was headed by a senior Lt or Lcdr. A 5" gun crew would include a Mount Captain (spots fall of shell), Gun Captain (oversees proper loading/safety around the gun), Pointer (cranks gun up or down as ship rolls and literally has his finger on the trigger), Trainer (cranks gun left or right), Shell Loader, Powder Loader, and Fuze Setter. There may also have been a Check Sight Operator who would look through an extra gun sight and make sure that the gun was engaging the enemy and not a friend - this is probably a peacetime addition). The gun crew would have a box of ready ammunition (15-20 rounds) near the gun. If the ship set General Quarters (Battle Stations) then the Upper and Lower Handling Rooms and the Magazines would be manned to keep more ammo coming. This would be where lots of bodies got involved from amongst the unrated men and those with no other critical job during a battle (cooks/stewards/clerks) The lateral movement of shells/powder to the gun would be done by hand: mechanical hoists moved the ammo up/down. In WW2 the mechanical hoists may or may not have had electrical drive (for little shells like 5"). The 300 lb depth charges were loaded on the K-guns/DC racks with just a block and tackle assist to "Norwegian Steam" however.

In the Engineering Department the mass of bodies would be taken up in Damage Control Parties. There was one forward (25-30 men led by a Junior Engineering Officer and some experienced Engineering and Deck (Carpenters Mates in those days) Petty Officers and one aft with Damage Control Central (a senior Lt Engineering Officer, some Petty Officers and a couple of reserve bodies) located midships.

NOTE: In "Shattered Sword" a major different is pointed between IJN and USN ships in this regard. In the USN every sailor was trained to participate in Damage Control parties right from the start. In the IJN training in damage control was limited to particular ratings and only those ratings were designated to participate in damage control (thus many sailors just keeping out of the way/standing around on the burning carriers at Midway).

Each Main Turbine had a Throttleman (Machinists Mate) and an unrated Oiler. A senior Machinist Mate or MMC watched over them. Also in the Engineroom were an Electrician to man the main electrical board and Boiler Tender to man the Evaporator (fresh water maker for the boilers (mostly)). An experienced officer would also be present to watch over all.

Six Boiler Tenders/unrated engineers serviced each boiler in the Boiler Room at GQ.

An experienced steersman (Quartermaster) and an experienced engineering rating would be in After Steering along with a couple of unrated persons to provide more "Norwegian Steam" on the block and tackles should the "power-steering" go out.

The Operations Department grew as electronics became more important during the war and specially trained electronics maintenance personnel were added to keep the gear working. Originally it consisted of Quartermasters (steersmen/log keepers), Signalmen (for visual/sound signal equipment)and Radiomen. Radarmen were added as radar became more important along with, as experience dictated so painfully in the Solomons and Atlantic convoys, a space was set aside to in which to collect and plot all the information, an organization of officers trained in radar/sonar data interpretation and other enlisted men to manually plot radar/sonar data and communicate that information to the Captain/Command was established. This was the genesis of the Combat Information Center. Both Radiomen and Radarmen increasingly became more equipment operators than equipment maintainers as time passed.


NOTE: The IJN never developed the Combat Information Center during the entire course of the war. They were studying the concept with a group of "unemployed" ship captains at the end of the war. Their commanders had little to no help interpreting such radar information as was developed (and relayed to them).

Ratings in the supply department would serve at General Quarters in any place having need of bodies: ammo handlers, DC parties, medical services. At other times they made sure that what was needed for the ship to function was purchased and maintained the good health and sustenance of its crew.

Hope this long winded exposition gives you some idea of how ships operate (and keep themselves operating).

[oldman45]

I would add one more department for a larger ship, Deck Department. These are the guys who paint the ship, handle the operations of entering/leaving port, anchoring the ship, and anything else that doesn't fall under the other departments listed above.

[spence]

In the Coast Guard Weapons is a Division under Deck Department. In the Navy and in the WW2 "Old Guard" Deck is a Division under the Weapons Department.

[1EyedJacks]

Wow - thanks guys - for shedding some light into the mysteries of shipboard life and ship operations.

Without radar I assume they used Mark-I eyeballs for the day/night watch? What would the watch look like during the day/night as far as placement of the watch and how many would be in this department? I assume you'ed have a couple of men in the "Bird nest" (is that the right term?) that are fore and aft on the ship. There are three stacks on a Kuma class and I see ladder rungs going up the sides. would you have anyone on the stacks as part of the watch? Would the whole watch be under one watch commander?

Was there a signal department that worked shuttered lamps and flags or is that all rolled into the radio department?

The Kuma Class are about almost 5200ft (152.4m) in length with a beam of 46ft 7" (14.2m). I'm just trying to figure out what 450ish personnel are doing and what they're daily work day would look like. My WAG is that with a day/night (or Port & Starboard?) shifts that when GQ is sounded you'd have 450 men with assigned duties so your sections/departments would actually be doubled up at GQ - right?

I spent 12 years in the California Army National Guard in an artillery unit of 155 SP Howitzers. Although Pops was in the US Navy (1957-1977) he never really talked about shipboard life. I can easily picture the process for servicing a 5" gun from my past service but a lot of the other duties/work involved with keeping a ship trimmed up in a war-time setting are just outside of my experience.

Thanks Spence & Oldman45 - for shedding some light on this form me.

[margeorg]

Hiya,

I can share some information from a german book featuring the never-completed german aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin". It has a section dealing with the crew composition, and contains detailed descriptions about the different divisions and their duties on board. I´m at work right now, can look that up later on if there´s interest.

[Gridley380]

A few things that might help:

1st, read the AAR "The little ship that could" tm.asp?m=2560960
Japanese side, with a LOT of detail of life belowdecks. An excellent view of what it takes to keep a steam plant running and to some extend what shipboard routine would be like (author wasn't in the IJN, and so must make some guesses).

2nd, take a look here: http://www.militaryresearch.org/1944%20 ... zation.pdf to get an idea of the manning of a warship of the era.

3rd, here's a gem: http://www.militaryresearch.org/1944%20 ... zation.pdf the second page is a WQSB. Admittedly for an LCT, but note who's doing what.

#2 & 3 are purely USN, of course, but while the organization of duties varied from navy to navy the work that had to be done didn't (OK, not much).

[Natali]

ORIGINAL: spence

I don't think anybody will be too surprised if I say I can not address an WWII IJN light cruiser's Watch Quarter and Station Bill directly but I did serve on a ship that still had its "WQSB" from WW2 on board and was tasked with adjusting certain aspects of it to fit with the much, much reduced manning of a late 1970s Coast Guard Cutter to deal with an increasingly demanding routine of boarding operations for fisheries/drug enforcement.

Said cutter, USCGC Bibb, was a very large (for the early WW2 time) escort vessel of 2700 tons, was armed with 2 5"/51s, 4 3"/50s, 8 20mm's, 6 K-guns (for side thrown depth charges) and twin DC rails on the stern. There may also have been some .50 and .30 cal MGs that the Chief Gunners Mate may have forgotten to give back to the Navy when the ship was in the yards. The ship carried 308 crewman and 25 officers (1 of which was a doctor). The engineering plant consisted of 2 boilers, two steam turbines, and two steam generators and could move the ship at 20-22 kts depending on last time the bottom was scraped. Standard speed was 15 kts. (NOTE: this was 1/2 of a DD's engineering plant - the ship was longer winded than a DD but not as fast - the USS Charleston "fake" Light Cruiser had the same hull and engineering plant) This class of ship also served as an AGC in the latter part of the war (Southern France, Philippines, Okinawa) but I never found any records of the Bibb's service in this capacity.

It was organized into 4 departments (each composed of Divisions led by a junior officer and some ratings concerned with the maintenance of the specific equipment mentioned):

Weapons - Main guns, AA guns and Depth Charges, Ship's Boats
Operations - Radio, Radar, Signals, Navigation, increasingly Electronics
Engineering - Engines, Boilers, Electrical, all mech systems, Damage Control
Supply - General Supply, Commissary, Medical

The ship's normal routine steaming was called Port and Starboard: half the crew on watch at a time. That was convenient in that although racks were set up everywhere there weren't enough to go around for the crew so the junior men got to "hot rack" it (share their bed with another crewman in the other watch section).

The ship was commanded by a Captain (O-6, not an O-3 like in the game). Because of its "roomy" accommodations the ship might also embark another Captain who commanded the Support Group (of escorts).

Weapons Department was concerned with the maintenance of all the ship's weapons systems and also included the Deck Force which was concerned with maintaining the general ship's structure. It was headed by a senior Lt or Lcdr. A 5" gun crew would include a Mount Captain (spots fall of shell), Gun Captain (oversees proper loading/safety around the gun), Pointer (cranks gun up or down as ship rolls and literally has his finger on the trigger), Trainer (cranks gun left or right), Shell Loader, Powder Loader, and Fuze Setter. There may also have been a Check Sight Operator who would look through an extra gun sight and make sure that the gun was engaging the enemy and not a friend - this is probably a peacetime addition). The gun crew would have a box of ready ammunition (15-20 rounds) near the gun. If the ship set General Quarters (Battle Stations) then the Upper and Lower Handling Rooms and the Magazines would be manned to keep more ammo coming. This would be where lots of bodies got involved from amongst the unrated men and those with no other critical job during a battle (cooks/stewards/clerks) The lateral movement of shells/powder to the gun would be done by hand: mechanical hoists moved the ammo up/down. In WW2 the mechanical hoists may or may not have had electrical drive (for little shells like 5"). The 300 lb depth charges were loaded on the K-guns/DC racks with just a block and tackle assist to "Norwegian Steam" however.

In the Engineering Department the mass of bodies would be taken up in Damage Control Parties. There was one forward (25-30 men led by a Junior Engineering Officer and some experienced Engineering and Deck (Carpenters Mates in those days) Petty Officers and one aft with Damage Control Central (a senior Lt Engineering Officer, some Petty Officers and a couple of reserve bodies) located midships.

NOTE: In "Shattered Sword" a major different is pointed between IJN and USN ships in this regard. In the USN every sailor was trained to participate in Damage Control parties right from the start. In the IJN training in damage control was limited to particular ratings and only those ratings were designated to participate in damage control (thus many sailors just keeping out of the way/standing around on the burning carriers at Midway).

Each Main Turbine had a Throttleman (Machinists Mate) and an unrated Oiler. A senior Machinist Mate or MMC watched over them. Also in the Engineroom were an Electrician to man the main electrical board and Boiler Tender to man the Evaporator (fresh water maker for the boilers (mostly)). An experienced officer would also be present to watch over all.

Six Boiler Tenders/unrated engineers serviced each boiler in the Boiler Room at GQ.

An experienced steersman (Quartermaster) and an experienced engineering rating would be in After Steering along with a couple of unrated persons to provide more "Norwegian Steam" on the block and tackles should the "power-steering" go out.

The Operations Department grew as electronics became more important during the war and specially trained electronics maintenance personnel were added to keep the gear working. Originally it consisted of Quartermasters (steersmen/log keepers), Signalmen (for visual/sound signal equipment)and Radiomen. Radarmen were added as radar became more important along with, as experience dictated so painfully in the Solomons and Atlantic convoys, a space was set aside to in which to collect and plot all the information, an organization of officers trained in radar/sonar data interpretation and other enlisted men to manually plot radar/sonar data and communicate that information to the Captain/Command was established. This was the genesis of the Combat Information Center. Both Radiomen and Radarmen increasingly became more equipment operators than equipment maintainers as time passed.


NOTE: The IJN never developed the Combat Information Center during the entire course of the war. They were studying the concept with a group of "unemployed" ship captains at the end of the war. Their commanders had little to no help interpreting such radar information as was developed (and relayed to them).

Ratings in the supply department would serve at General Quarters in any place having need of bodies: ammo handlers, DC parties, medical services. At other times they made sure that what was needed for the ship to function was purchased and maintained the good health and sustenance of its crew.

Hope this long winded exposition gives you some idea of how ships operate (and keep themselves operating).

Hi guy. Don't know if they have it in USCG but wouldn't there be an Air Division in USN ships that had on-board aircraft?

[Gridley380]

ORIGINAL: Natali

Hi guy. Don't know if they have it in USCG but wouldn't there be an Air Division in USN ships that had on-board aircraft?

Yes, often called the "V" division, at least on surface combatants.

http://home.comcast.net/~ok3wirebob/Catapults.html

[1EyedJacks]

ORIGINAL: margeorg

Hiya,

I can share some information from a german book featuring the never-completed german aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin". It has a section dealing with the crew composition, and contains detailed descriptions about the different divisions and their duties on board. I´m at work right now, can look that up later on if there´s interest.

Hi margorg - I'd be very interested in anything you can share on this - thanks!

[1EyedJacks]

ORIGINAL: Gridley380

A few things that might help:

1st, read the AAR "The little ship that could" tm.asp?m=2560960
Japanese side, with a LOT of detail of life belowdecks. An excellent view of what it takes to keep a steam plant running and to some extend what shipboard routine would be like (author wasn't in the IJN, and so must make some guesses).

2nd, take a look here: http://www.militaryresearch.org/1944%20 ... zation.pdf to get an idea of the manning of a warship of the era.

3rd, here's a gem: http://www.militaryresearch.org/1944%20 ... zation.pdf the second page is a WQSB. Admittedly for an LCT, but note who's doing what.

#2 & 3 are purely USN, of course, but while the organization of duties varied from navy to navy the work that had to be done didn't (OK, not much).

These are some great links. i'm also starting the AAR as you suggested. Thanks!

[margeorg]

Hi margorg - I'd be very interested in anything you can share on this - thanks!

Hello,


here we go:

the crew of "Graf Zeppelin", as planned on November should consist of:

57 officers, executives and navy employees
68 warrant officers and NCO´s with portepee ("Portepee-Unteroffizier")
30 cadets (for training) ("Faehnrich")
260 petty officers ("Unteroffizier")
934 seamen
29 civil contractors,

In total 1378 men. For comparison, the heavy cruiser "Prinz Eugen" had a full crew list of approx. 1350 man.

In addition, the air group should consist of:

51 Officers and executives
53 warrant officers and NCO´s with portepee ("Portepee-Unteroffizier")
83 petty officers ("Unteroffizier")
155 seamen,

in total 342 men. It was planned to embark around 43 aircraft initially.

The construction yard was advised to provide room for around 1720 men on the carrier in total.

Similar to heavy cruisers, the crew whould have been divided into 10 divisions, each with around 100-170 men. Divisions 1-4 were nautic personnel, divisions 5-7 engineers, and air component, specialists, executives and civil personnelwould be assigned to divisions 8-10.

You should also keep in mind that this structure was valid for peace times only. During wars, the division assignment might have changed significantly. As an example, look at the crew structure of "Scharnhorst", a german WW2 battle cruiser. The wartime crew of around 1900 men would have been structured as followed:

1. and 2. Division: Nautic personnel, also manning the heavy artillery (9 * 28cm)
3. and 4. Division: Nautic personnel, also manning the secondary artillery (12 * 15cm)
5. and 6. Division: Nautic personnel, also manning the AA artillery
7. - 9. Division : Engineers for turbines, boilers and aux engines
10. Division: Enginees for electrical installations
11. Division: Radio, signaling, radar, acoustic detection and messaging staff
12. Division: Executives (management, materials, cooks, tailors, shoemakers etc.)
13. Division: Artillery mechanics, fireworkers etc.

During wartime, approximately half of the personnel from division 1-4 were assigned to divisions 12 and 13, where they manned the guns of all kinds. Divisions 1 and 4 had to provide people for half of the secondary artillery and turret C (afterwards). Division 2 had to man turret B, division 3 turret A. In addition, these divisions had to provide the personnel for the other half of the secondary artillery.