Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

User avatar
crsutton
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:56 pm
Location: Maryland

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: goran007

Most of his CV's need repair yard, rest are too depleted or aircraft and men to oppose anything in near future. If there is time to counter invade now is.

Go somewhere strategically important, but where you could have clear advantage from LBA and KB, trash and capture few bases. Capturing north Australia will not only destroy some aircraft and ships but you will also secure major part of DEI so you will need less land forces to keep them safe.

Don't be afraid to sacrifice few divisions on capturing and holding Darwin + few bases when only oil is what you really need. For keeping Darwin open he will use best airframes he has and still loose. On your part you probably have too many old and obsolete aircraft that you'll replace anyway.

Ignore what i said and what i would do, play your game, i am just amazed how well u laid trap for his CV's. Considering how many planes you had on cap and what damage you did prior to attacking but also AA that you did put up, its normal that USN hit nothing and its exactly what we would expect in real life.

You made my day GJ...:)


You know, Goran007 for a "new trooper" might have a good idea here.[;)] Without his carrier fleet, Northern Oz is really cut off and the flow of supply to Oz over land is limited to about 500 units a day. I just don't think he can oppose a strong Japanese operation in Oz. My experience as the Allied player is that the more Allied troops in North Coast of Oz the more desperate the supply situation eventually becomes.

I think if I were playing Japan any Allied presence that poses a threat to the DEI would have to be my first priority. It is well worth having a strong presence in OZ for as long and you can. It really does not matter if you eventually sacrifice 200,000 men in the process. With China out of the picture, you have the troops to spare and to delay him in that theater for six months to a year would be a blessing. Right now, Darwin is the dagger poised to gut your insides.

You might give some thought to this. If you do it, then do it big time and send every mobile unit you have. It is an opportunity to trap and kill some Allied units.

This is a bold move but the more I think about it the more I like it.

BTW, I don't know if you have noticed it but both Viberpol and I have noticed that it is almost impossible to hurt well capped carriers with LBA. It seems that it is now almost impossible to get a coordinated strike to fly from a land base, and this usually ends with the land air units getting cut to bits by the carrier CAP.

I also like very much the changes with Da Babes where the Japanese player has to plan every operation with his limited fuel supply in mind. This reflects the reality of the war in the Pacific for Japan. The Japanese player "should" always be worried about fuel and Allied submarines. That never is the case in the stock game.


I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg
User avatar
Cribtop
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:42 pm
Location: Lone Star Nation

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by Cribtop »

First, mega-congrats! [:D]

Second, you really should re-consider the night time port attack on Townsville. Use merely "trained" pilots and just throw away the airframes. Further damage to his CVs is well worth it. While you're at it, get a conga line of subs sending in minis there as well. It only takes a little luck!
Image
User avatar
BBfanboy
Posts: 20363
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:36 pm
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Contact:

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by BBfanboy »

Subs (including minis, I think) cannot penetrate to attack stood-down ships in a port at level 2 or higher. I think the first turn at PH does not use this restriction but I believe it applies after that. They can lurk in the hex and wait for TFs coming out of port, though.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
goran007
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:10 am
Location: croatia

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by goran007 »

ORIGINAL: crsutton
I think if I were playing Japan any Allied presence that poses a threat to the DEI would have to be my first priority. It is well worth having a strong presence in OZ for as long and you can. It really does not matter if you eventually sacrifice 200,000 men in the process. With China out of the picture, you have the troops to spare and to delay him in that theater for six months to a year would be a blessing. Right now, Darwin is the dagger poised to gut your insides.

GJ, although your victory was great you are far from winning the game. You have a window of lets say 3 months before allies recuperate and return stronger than ever.

As you already saw your main problem isn't lack or quality of planes, ships or men, but how to predict which way allied hammer will strike:
You destroyed China and eventually you'll free a lot of divisions from there. He knows it and he'll stay clear of large landmass, so lets presume Burma major assault is unlikely.
Second option is central pacific, you have KB intact and proven as awesome force i could bet my house that he wont go with some deep/bold strike to Marijanas etc...

That leaves DEI and Kuriles.

Kuriles against you? After what u did to Rader, i dont think so. He knows that you'll be cautious about it. He cant have good end game LBA there or really suppress chain of bases. Kuriles are basically a gamble 'all or nothing', with big possible gain but also with a good chance of extreme losses.

That leaves DEI, from Darwin.
For a cautious and methodical player its the best way. We all know its hard to defend against surgical strike to a few good islands that could be developed.

I would like to point only 2 things:
take Darwin/north australia and whole DEI would be safe.
take Darwin/north Australia and he'll try to capture it back.

Second argument is really important as you create a scenario to defeat allies in the 1944 on a massive scale.
Retaking Darwin by having to land 4-5 US divisions means a lot of force in cruisers/battleships/transports and CV's. In 1944 your basses in the area could be stacked with thousands of bombers, fighters and with strong KB lingering in shadows. You have everything in place for major US defeat.

Why is Darwin so important? Because its the key of IJ insecurity of being stretched on multiple axis of possible allies advances.

Why is Darwin good place to commit?
Because its far from his LBA and short to yours.
Because its a long trip from either side of Australia to get to
Because any of his ships being hit there are long way to friendly port that could be heavily patrolled by subs (choke points).
Darwin is a nightmare to recapture as allies and a huge gamble that most would bite.

To capture it you'll smash few BB's, transports that you don't really need anymore and you'll expose lets say 4 divisions there in level 6-7 forts by the time he comes.
You loose nothing but gain a lot.

Even though its 1943 and on paper allies should dominate next 2-3 months they have less to oppose Japan than 1941.
You know they wont go out and fight, they'll lick their wounds. It would be huge mistake to let them just lie on the floor as this isn't a fair fight kick them in the head before they get their guard up!
User avatar
Cribtop
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:42 pm
Location: Lone Star Nation

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by Cribtop »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Subs (including minis, I think) cannot penetrate to attack stood-down ships in a port at level 2 or higher. I think the first turn at PH does not use this restriction but I believe it applies after that. They can lurk in the hex and wait for TFs coming out of port, though.

I believe this applies to regular subs (ie they can penetrate small harbors like a mini), but not minis. I recently sent one into Pago Pago and I know it was bigger than level 2.
Image
User avatar
BBfanboy
Posts: 20363
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:36 pm
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Contact:

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Subs (including minis, I think) cannot penetrate to attack stood-down ships in a port at level 2 or higher. I think the first turn at PH does not use this restriction but I believe it applies after that. They can lurk in the hex and wait for TFs coming out of port, though.

I believe this applies to regular subs (ie they can penetrate small harbors like a mini), but not minis. I recently sent one into Pago Pago and I know it was bigger than level 2.
Did your mini-subs attack stood-down ships as opposed to any in a TF? That is the only way I can think of to confirm they were inside the defences. Just wanna be sure we are talking about identical situations - so many ifs, ands, buts & nots in this game!
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
User avatar
Cribtop
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:42 pm
Location: Lone Star Nation

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by Cribtop »

No, but I got the "founders trying to penetrate harbor" message, so it wasn't just loitering in the hex (I do that as well).
Image
User avatar
GreyJoy
Posts: 6750
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by GreyJoy »

Goran, CrSutton....guys...i'm sorry to disappoint you but, altough i perfectly understand and agree with your strategic considerations about the importance of holding Northern Oz (or even recapturing it) - and here i made a huge strategical mistake abbandoning it to fall back in the DEI without a fight! - this can't and won't happen in this game.

Brad is far from being a fool. He already has 55,000 men at Darwin and more 21,000 at Bathturst Island, along with 45,000 at Port Hedland (where the 6th Aus Division is confirmed) and 20,000 more in places like Gove.
All these bases are already maxed out in terms of developing and even 6 full divisions woundn't be able to capture them in an amphib attack.

I know what i'm talking about. I've attacked Darwin in march 1942 and, even against only a couple of Aus Bdes, it was a close call... the battle costed me some 25 transports and half of the 4th Division. Now Brad has several hundreds more modern bombers and fighters based there, along with legions of PTs, subs with working torps and upgraded strong divisions....

No guys, it will be a suicide. Doesn't matter if his CVs cannot come into action. The KB alone won't win an amphib landing and in this Mod, with the reduced effect of the 250Kg bomb, the ground bombings won't have the effect you would look for.

You say i shouldn't let him recover. But let's be honest: we have just sink 1 CV and damaged 3 more. This isn't a war changer. Lady Luck bought us some more months with this "kiss" and i need these months to prepare my defences against the inevitable.

There are many things that needs to be addressed and the KB has to be ready to do its job when the time will arrive again.


Feb 10-13, 43

So it seems that those who's foreseen a new life for the Burma theatre were right. Brad started back his bombing campaign against Akyab. Cruisers bombed it from the sea, while hundreds of 2Es attacked it for the last 3 days.
I'm sending more supplies to Rangoon to counter it and hope my defensive strategy will prove to be a good one even for 1943.

ASW: Brad subs started to work again. In the last 3 days he sunk 2 xAKs and 3 PBs near Singapore and Brunei... despite the heavy ASW his subs are becoming a threat once again. Need to bring my ASW defences to another higher level.

NOPAC: that TF we spotted for several days was forgotten by Brad... he sent it there to scout and to make some noise and then the events of the Solomons made him forget about it... 1 Agano Class CL and 2 modern DDs sunk 2 xAPs, 4 xAks and 3 KVs without any problem[;)]

KB: we avoided several pesky subs south of Rabaul and reached the base without a problem. Every ship, even the big BB/CVs, managed to reload, thanks to the naval HQ, the port size and the several AKEs i have at Rabaul. We also managed to upgrade 150 Vals into Judys and some more 40 Jills have been added in place of the Kates. Every squadron has been refilled with crack pilots and every ship got refueled at 100%. We obviously have a fuel problem in the Pacific now. Need to send some 100k Fuel here ASAP for future operations.

Now Rossell Island and Tagula are getting some engineers in order to build up forts to level 3 and 2 small SNLF units will be airlifted here. We need to prevent any future paradrop.

We now need to move some forces to CENTPAC. Naru Is and Ocean are getting some garrisons, while supplies and fuel needs to be sent to Kwalajein.


On the 13th Brad set up 2 CAP Traps. Once above Chengtu. I couldn't keep both Chengtu and Chungking's AFs suppressed so Brad moved 100 fighters to Chungking and LRCAP Chengtu. My bombers arrived with little escort and it cost me 31 planes[:(]...well played! Despite being cut off from any external supply source, Chungking keeps on repairing its damage and so it does Chengtu! But we're getting there...
Despite the air losses, we attacked Chengtu for the first time and the result wasn't that bad....

Ground combat at Chengtu (75,41)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 121301 troops, 1307 guns, 1339 vehicles, Assault Value = 4015

Defending force 72872 troops, 266 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1754

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 3454

Allied adjusted defense: 6211

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
7368 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 402 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 93 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 58 disabled
Guns lost 43 (1 destroyed, 42 disabled)
Vehicles lost 44 (2 destroyed, 42 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
6962 casualties reported
Squads: 45 destroyed, 284 disabled
Non Combat: 40 destroyed, 217 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
37th Division
70th Division
13th Division
4th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
35th Division
15th Tank Regiment
27th Division
39th Division
15th Division
1st Tank Division
104th Division
2nd Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Division
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
21st Mortar Battalion
1st Army
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
23rd Army
7th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
17th Chinese Corps
19th Chinese Corps
69th Chinese Corps
7th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
12th Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
57th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
80th Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
76th Chinese Corps
24th Chinese Corps
98th Chinese Corps
3rd Construction Regiment
7th Group Army
26th Group Army
24th Group Army
22nd Artillery Regiment
1st Construction Regiment
29th Group Army
3rd Group Army
5th War Area
38th Chinese Corps
2nd Group Army
Jingcha War Area
Red Chinese Army
56th AT Gun Regiment
12th Group Army
2nd War Area
3rd Chinese Base Force
1st War Area
4th Chinese Base Force
9th Chinese Base Force



So forts were at lvl 3 as we supposed and we managed to bring them down to 2. Losses were pretty high but we'll recover...he won't! We'll get there!




Over Babar he made another CAP Trap. Sent there some small cargo TFs heavily CAPped from Bathrust Is, hoping that my bombers from Timor would attack.
Luckly we had foreseen this possible movement and we ordered to our Judys and Kates to stand down. We lost a couple of Jakes to his LRCAP there but nothing more.
The daily bombings against Saumlaki and Babar continue. This is clearly the easiest target for his next jump. He can cover his landings with LRCAP...so he can do it even without CVs... but he need first to shut down my AFs cause he will be in range of several BIG AFs where i'm massing bombers and torpedo bombers.
My subs are also ready to meet him. I have a pack of 15 subs in the deep waters south of Saumlaki...waiting for preys...

Java: a convoy from Japan is arriving with 6 base forces, 3 Ind Eng Regiments, 1 CD unit and some more small SNLF units. These guys will be needed to reinforce the Java defences.

Sumatra: the first sentai of 27 N1K1 is finally operative at Palembang, where it joined 27 Nicks from an Army Sentai. The next Sentai that will be upgraded to George will be at Rangoon in a week from now.

10 oceanic subs are leaving Rabaul harbour. Their mission is an hard one: intercept the damaged enemy's BBs and CVs on their way to Pearl Harbour!
15 Ro-Subs will remain in the Solomons (i decided not to send them to NOPAC)


Mariannas: we're really relieved to finally have an air HQ (Air Division) at Saipan.



User avatar
GreyJoy
Posts: 6750
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Have you used PPs to buy out the Infantry Groups in Japan?? I used them to garrison the NoPac in the Kuriles. Later in the war which should be about now in your game you start to get more components that allows those Inf Grps to expand and become a division. The other thing is the ability for those components that are delayed to start prepping for a future base (click on "Unit Organization" to see when and what the other components are). I would use some of your Chinese bases "Ind Mixed Bde" that do the same thing for garrison duties in the Marianas Islands, as an example.

No, i didn't use those Inf Groups. I bought a full division from Tokyo a while back and sent it to shimushiri Jiima (which has been elected as my main base in the area). Infantry BNs (those that pops up in Hokkaido) and SNLF units are garrisoning the rest of the islands. Now i'll buy a full division from Manchuria the 8th and divide it into 3 regiments in order to garrison the rest.
Some of the Chinese Mixed Bde are garrisoning the Adamans and western Sumatra. I prefer to have regular divisions for the Mariannas. But that's just an aestetic choice i guess...


LCU Upgrades - Many of your BFs will be due about 555 days into the game. To find them easily, hit the "G" button to pull up all your ground units. Then "Show Soft" in the upper right hand corner. Finally, click on "TOE." Scroll down to see which units are due upgrades. If a "0" or "-1" show up (forget which one is what) that unit can be upgraded.


mmmm...will have to check...didn't know that[X(] Thanks!

Fuel - Are you micro-managing your TKs and Resource convoys going to Japan?? I set them to "Do Not Refuel" when they leave Singapore and any other base in the SRA going to Japan and/or points in eastern Pacific like Truk. If they don't have enough organic fuel to make the trip back to the SRA, I then switch the Refueling Option on the TF screen to "Minimal Refuel" and use the Waypoint option. Finally, I hit the "Replenish from Port." This option will give the TF only enough fuel plus 10% to get back to the port in the SRA where all your fuel is generated.

If you see some of my TF returning to my main base in the USA as Allies, they get back home almost in the Red with maybe a few turns of fuel left. No sense in you transporting a large TF worth of Fuel back to Japan and then have the TF top off its fuel tanks from the supply of fuel you just dropped off unless needed.


Absolutely! I do it since the beginning and check the fuel usage every day!
I've also find out that a good way not to burn fuel for the KB is to limit the air ops when you are in safe waters. There's a lot of difference between performing a daily CAP mission and keep your fighters down for example.



Another good thing to do to save supply is to keep your units in rest mode when they are not needed to build anything and when the enemy is far away... don't always keep them in combat mode!
User avatar
GreyJoy
Posts: 6750
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: goran007

Most of his CV's need repair yard, rest are too depleted or aircraft and men to oppose anything in near future. If there is time to counter invade now is.

Go somewhere strategically important, but where you could have clear advantage from LBA and KB, trash and capture few bases. Capturing north Australia will not only destroy some aircraft and ships but you will also secure major part of DEI so you will need less land forces to keep them safe.

Don't be afraid to sacrifice few divisions on capturing and holding Darwin + few bases when only oil is what you really need. For keeping Darwin open he will use best airframes he has and still loose. On your part you probably have too many old and obsolete aircraft that you'll replace anyway.

Ignore what i said and what i would do, play your game, i am just amazed how well u laid trap for his CV's. Considering how many planes you had on cap and what damage you did prior to attacking but also AA that you did put up, its normal that USN hit nothing and its exactly what we would expect in real life.

You made my day GJ...:)


You know, Goran007 for a "new trooper" might have a good idea here.[;)] Without his carrier fleet, Northern Oz is really cut off and the flow of supply to Oz over land is limited to about 500 units a day. I just don't think he can oppose a strong Japanese operation in Oz. My experience as the Allied player is that the more Allied troops in North Coast of Oz the more desperate the supply situation eventually becomes.

I think if I were playing Japan any Allied presence that poses a threat to the DEI would have to be my first priority. It is well worth having a strong presence in OZ for as long and you can. It really does not matter if you eventually sacrifice 200,000 men in the process. With China out of the picture, you have the troops to spare and to delay him in that theater for six months to a year would be a blessing. Right now, Darwin is the dagger poised to gut your insides.

You might give some thought to this. If you do it, then do it big time and send every mobile unit you have. It is an opportunity to trap and kill some Allied units.

This is a bold move but the more I think about it the more I like it.

BTW, I don't know if you have noticed it but both Viberpol and I have noticed that it is almost impossible to hurt well capped carriers with LBA. It seems that it is now almost impossible to get a coordinated strike to fly from a land base, and this usually ends with the land air units getting cut to bits by the carrier CAP.

I also like very much the changes with Da Babes where the Japanese player has to plan every operation with his limited fuel supply in mind. This reflects the reality of the war in the Pacific for Japan. The Japanese player "should" always be worried about fuel and Allied submarines. That never is the case in the stock game.




Com'on guys, let's face the truth: would you really send your crack KB pilots against an enemy lvl 9 AF in mid 1943!?!?!? Yes, i may sink some transports...maybe even some cruisers... but at the expense of hundreds of my crack, irreplaceable pilots!
I need the KB to be my sharp blade when the real invasion will take place. The goal isn't simply to sink ships. The goal is to stop invasions!
Darwin cannot be isolated. Too many garrisoned bases. Too many supplies and fuel already brought in.
The more i keep the KB a fleet in being, the more he will have to be cautious about his next operations. I need the KB to remain in the shades as long as possible (as we've just done).
With a good search infrastructure and with some good time spent reading the reports and replays i think i can muster enough intel to be able to predict where his next operations will be. and that's the only place where i want the KB to be.
The best way to delay the allies is to sink an invading armada when it's unloading. Stop them on the beaches. That's the strategy.

I'll keep on using the Detection Level as the primary warning indicator. Where he uses his best recon assets is probably where he will attack soon. If a base gets a 9/10 DL it means he's using his F4s... which mean he needs to know precisely what i have there...

At the moment he keeps on reconning Tabiutea, Woodlark Is and Christmas Is. Timor is getting his attention too but that's pretty obvious
User avatar
GreyJoy
Posts: 6750
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Congratulations on a major victory, GJ!  Having bought so much time to attend to your defenses and put them in good order must feel like you've won the lottery.  You really are quite an amazing player.  You're like the Hobbit of AE!

User avatar
GreyJoy
Posts: 6750
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by GreyJoy »

Economy:

The Oil has run dry in Japan. Despite my efforts the "New Convoy System" is simply too slow, while Japan "drink" 8,500 tons of oil per day!
Now 455,000 tons of oil are enroute from Singapore and we're trying to estabilish a new "line" from Shangai to Sasebo. The oil gets to Shangai only as long as there's a ship there requiring it, which means that the only way to get the oil flow to Shangai is to always keep a couple of TKs demanding for oil there. I've so organized a little chain of small TKs that daily are able to suck 9/10k oil from Shangai. But that, once again, means smaller convoys running around with less escort... and that means more losses[:o]

Let's see what we could do...

Also i need to consider that the fuel production in Japan is less important here than in stock cause refineries DO NOT produce supplies... so i have to ask myself if it's wise to move oil around when i could directly move fuel (which is also fastr to load/unload)...

What do you think Minister?[:D]
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9888
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by ny59giants »

What do you think Minister? [:D]

I've been in the minority when it comes to focusing on fuel shipments vs oil, but I've been 'politically incorrect' for years. [;)] I have focused on getting fuel out of Palembang first and use my 7950 capacity TKs with a few escorts to and from Singapore with CS convoys. Do the same thing from Medan. I use those small 1250 TKs to move oil out as large TKs take too much time to load. From Singapore, I like to use the dual capacity xAK to move some oil to Japan. Make a Cargo TF and load Resources. The AI will fill up the small 200 capacity with Oil. Once Oil builds up enough (about 100k is singapore), I ship it in those large, fast TKs.

Shanghai - Are you basing some of your Std-A, B, or C TKs here with some short legged PBs in CS convoys to move your Oil?? The AI will move stuff to a port based on what is home ported there along with port size.

Japan - I think slightly different here as I want a surplus of fuel here vs oil as an Allied player could target my refineries and all that oil will do you no good. IMO, I would focus on building up fuel before I focused on oil.

You can send me a turn for a closer look, if needed. Standard fees will apply. [;)]
[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
GreyJoy
Posts: 6750
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
What do you think Minister? [:D]

I've been in the minority when it comes to focusing on fuel shipments vs oil, but I've been 'politically incorrect' for years. [;)] I have focused on getting fuel out of Palembang first and use my 7950 capacity TKs with a few escorts to and from Singapore with CS convoys. Do the same thing from Medan. I use those small 1250 TKs to move oil out as large TKs take too much time to load. From Singapore, I like to use the dual capacity xAK to move some oil to Japan. Make a Cargo TF and load Resources. The AI will fill up the small 200 capacity with Oil. Once Oil builds up enough (about 100k is singapore), I ship it in those large, fast TKs.

Shanghai - Are you basing some of your Std-A, B, or C TKs here with some short legged PBs in CS convoys to move your Oil?? The AI will move stuff to a port based on what is home ported there along with port size.

Japan - I think slightly different here as I want a surplus of fuel here vs oil as an Allied player could target my refineries and all that oil will do you no good. IMO, I would focus on building up fuel before I focused on oil.

You can send me a turn for a closer look, if needed. Standard fees will apply. [;)]

That's exactly what i do except for Medan. I don' t use it cause it's too little to be of any real use and i have too few ship engineers to spread some of them there. Also the oil and fuel flows to Palmbang without any probelm anyway.

A Shangai i have the small 2500 TKs with some PBs and SCs that load oil.

My main problem is that if you focus on Oil you'll be short on fuel, no doubt. I was able to form a uber convoy with 400k oil and 300k fuel but it takes too much time to load and to move into one single big convoy.

My simple question is: would it be better to simpl ship fuel and forget about oil?
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9888
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by ny59giants »

My simple question is: would it be better to simple ship fuel and forget about oil?

NO!! Fuel is priority #1, but you still need to ship oil back to Japan.

I need a screenshot or two. Hit the "B" button to pull up "Bases." Then on the top click on "Show Resource and Garrison Data." Then click on "Oil" with a screenshot showing where all your Oil is stockpiling and then another by clicking on "Fuel" to let me see that one.

Thanks,
Minister Benoit
[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
GreyJoy
Posts: 6750
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
My simple question is: would it be better to simple ship fuel and forget about oil?

NO!! Fuel is priority #1, but you still need to ship oil back to Japan.

I need a screenshot or two. Hit the "B" button to pull up "Bases." Then on the top click on "Show Resource and Garrison Data." Then click on "Oil" with a screenshot showing where all your Oil is stockpiling and then another by clicking on "Fuel" to let me see that one.

Thanks,
Minister Benoit

Here u go Micheal!

However i think i've found the right solution:

No more oil convoys from Singa to Japan. Fast TKs and slow xAKs will move only fuel from Singa to Japan.
Fuel and oil will keep on flowing to Singa from Balikapan, Tarakan, Palembang, Miri and Brunei.
The oil will be shipped only from Shangai and Fusan, using small TKs.

I made some tests. i think i can manage to get 10k Oil every day to Shangai and some 4k to Fusan. If i can muster a decent convoy system i hope to be able to get to Japan something like 10k oil daily...which should be just enough to keep the refineries going.
At the same time i should be able to ship 400k fuel every 40 days to Japan (fuel loads and unloads much faster than oil).

Will forget about pumping oil from minor bases...it's just not efficient.

Java should provide enough fuel for the fleet operations in southern DEI

Image
Attachments
OIL.jpg
OIL.jpg (198.29 KiB) Viewed 175 times
User avatar
GreyJoy
Posts: 6750
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by GreyJoy »

.

Image
Attachments
OIL2.jpg
OIL2.jpg (201.13 KiB) Viewed 175 times
User avatar
GreyJoy
Posts: 6750
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by GreyJoy »

Now the question is...how many days/weeks will Chengtu last?... It's mid feb... if i can get it by mid march 43... i think i'll be able to start shipping out units by mid april...can't wait to move out all those divisions... three tank divisions are already attached to the southern command, so can be moved out immediately.... where is the best place to use the tanks? Burma? Java? Sumatra? Islands?
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9888
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by ny59giants »

Hong Kong, Singapore, and Balikpapan have almost 620k in Oil. [X(] Add in what you have at Tarakan and you have two size 4 ports that will need some effort to empty out (oil and fuel). HK and Singapore can use the large, fast TKs to ship it all the way back to Japan. Assign 3 to 5 fast "E" escorts (you did convert your TBs over) and some of you older DDs. One escort with radar and then at least one escort with Type 2 or 95-2 DCs. Set them to "Do Not Refuel."

A lot of your small TKs can be used at Balikpapan, Tarakan, and over at Boela. Get out the oil and other stuff to a larger port (Babeldoab, Davao, or even up to Manila).

Boela and Babo have both maxed out for oil and have stopped producing.

Edit - Here is my Oil with the fuel as of mid-Jan '44.

Image
Attachments
Oil & Fuel.jpg
Oil & Fuel.jpg (107.76 KiB) Viewed 175 times
[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
GreyJoy
Posts: 6750
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

RE: Avoiding traps

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Hong Kong, Singapore, and Balikpapan have almost 620k in Oil. [X(] Add in what you have at Tarakan and you have two size 4 ports that will need some effort to empty out (oil and fuel). HK and Singapore can use the large, fast TKs to ship it all the way back to Japan. Assign 3 to 5 fast "E" escorts (you did convert your TBs over) and some of you older DDs. One escort with radar and then at least one escort with Type 2 or 95-2 DCs. Set them to "Do Not Refuel."

A lot of your small TKs can be used at Balikpapan, Tarakan, and over at Boela. Get out the oil and other stuff to a larger port (Babeldoab, Davao, or even up to Manila).

Boela and Babo have both maxed out for oil and have stopped producing.


Balikapan was conquered with more than 600k oil! We've 2 30k Tons CS convoys moving it out to Singapore. We're doing well here.
The oil from HK is slowly moving to Shangai. If we implement the "sucking" process well at Shangai, i think we can empty HK

My idea now is to do not load any more oil at Singa. Simply unload it there and use Shangai and Fusan as the only 2 "pumping" ports in Asia.

Boela, Babo etc are too far away and too small and too close to the front to be efficient the sucking process. I decided to simply forget them. My TKs are too precious to be sent there and we better use them to keep on sucking from asian ports rather than cross the pacific to get out those 20k oil tons
Post Reply

Return to “After Action Reports”