Before the 2.20 patch Coastwatcher reports weren't reported to the Japanese side. I had no idea how much these guys reported. Even after I've taken the hex and all the colored dots next to them they still manage to report on my movements. You'd think with enough land forces in the hex that we could find them and kill them. Is there any way to do that in this game? If not, is there anything that can make them less effective (other than avoiding my bases in the slot where they seem to be hanging out) ?
Yamamoto
How do you kill those stinkin' coastwatchers?
Moderators: Joel Billings, Tankerace, siRkid
Here's some history I'm not familiar with. Our Aussie members should be able to tell us how successful these guys were.some were caught I'm sure but I bet most of them survived. I don't think the Japanese took these guys prisoners.
Col Saito: "Don't speak to me of rules! This is war! It is not a game of cricket!"
Here is some info.....enjoy the read:)
The Coast Watching Organisation of World War 2 was based on from the original Australian Coast Watching organisation which started in 1919 when selected civilian personnel in coastal areas were organised on a voluntary basis to report in time of war any unusual or suspicious events along the Australian coastline. The concept was quickly extended to include New Guinea (but not Dutch New Guinea) as well as Papua and the Solomon Islands.
The Coast Watching Organisation (WW2) commenced in 1939 under the command of the Royal Australian Navy through the Naval Intelligence Division, Navy Office, Melbourne. Lieutenant Commander R.B.M. Long was the Director of Naval Intelligence at that time. Lieutenant Commander Eric Feldt, who was on the Emergency List, was personally selected by Commander Long, mobilised and appointed Staff Officer (Intelligence), in Port Moresby. He had operational control of the Coast Watchers in the north eastern area of defence of Australia. This included the Australian Mandated Territories, Papua, and the Solomon Islands. There were about 800 personnel in the Coast Watching Organisation in 1939.
Eric Feldt had resigned from the Navy before the war and was employed by the Government in New Guinea. He knew the Island people, the Government Officials and the Plantation Managers who all placed great trust in Eric Feldt. Because of Eric Feldt, many civilian Coast Watchers opted to stay in New Guinea after war was declared and other civilians were ordered to be evacuated. They volunteered to stay behind Japanese lines and risked being captured as a civilian spy by the Japanese.
In 1942 the remaining Coast Watchers were mobilised into Navy service.
The Coast Watchers, such as Paul Edward Mason who was located on the southern end of Bougainville Island, would monitor Japanese activities and maintain radio contact with the Combined Operational Intelligence Centre (COIC) located in a secret command centre inside Castle Hill in Townsville. COIC was part of the Area Combined Headquarters located at Green Street in Townsville.
The Coast Watchers included reliable persons such as:-
- Post Masters
- Harbour Masters
- Railway officials
- School teachers
- Local police
- Government servants and officials
- Missionaries
- Civilian airline pilots
- Patrol Officers
- District Officers
- Plantation owners
Many of the above Government officials would have ready access to radio equipment as part of their normal public service role. They would report on:-
- unusual or suspicious events
- sightings of ships, aircraft or floating mines
- other matters of defence interest
The Navy would supply the Coast Watchers with Playfair Codes for their communications. Pedal radios were initially used for some of the remote Coast Watchers who did not have access to radios in their normal Government job.
The Coast Watchers worked on a voluntary basis entirely without remuneration. The Naval Intelligence Division produced and distributed a document called "The Coast Watching Guide".
After General Douglas MacArthur came to Australia and was appointed Supreme Commander of the South West Pacific area, Commander Long called a conference in Melbourne of all the Intelligence groups. Eric Feldt attended this meeting. Commander Long outlined a scheme to form a unit from all the different Service Units of the different countries which would report directly to General Headquarters (GHQ). This new unit would be funded by all the countries involved and would carry out activities behind enemy lines using resources from all of the countries involved. Not long after this meeting the Allied Intelligence Bureau (AIB) was formed in June 1942.
The Coast Watch Organisation or Combined Field Intelligence Service then became known as Section "C" of the Allied Intelligence Bureau (AIB). The role of Section "C" was "obtaining all possible information about the enemy, his disposition, movements, strength, etc. through such agencies as the coast watchers, native agents and civilian operations".
The Coast Watchers in the South Pacific Area remained part of Australian Naval Intelligence. To avoid any confusion with the two line of command, Lieutenant Commander Eric Feldt was placed in charge of the Coast Watchers in both areas. He would report to GHQ, SWPA for the South West Pacific Area and to Naval Intelligence, Melbourne for the South Pacific area.
And this
But the Japanese were turned back at Midway and the Americans seized the initiative, invading Guadalcanal in August. Galer's VMF-224 landed there on August 30. Henderson Field was under construction; few mechanics were in place; mud was everywhere. But the Seabees worked miracles with PSP (pierced steel planking), and the "Cactus Air Force" began taking its toll on the Japanese bombers. Galer's pilots scrambled continuously to meet the Japanese aerial onslaught. Typically coastwatchers stationed in the Solomons warned them of incoming Japanese attacks. "Forty bombers headed yours," was a well-rembered radio message from the isolated coastwatchers. The fighters of VMF-224, VMF-211, and whatever else Cactus could put in the air would take off, looking to gain altitude before the Japs arrived. When the shooting started, they went for the bombers. After the dogfighting, if ammo remained, they would strafe enemy ships or ground positions.
Although short of gas at times, Galer said the aviators would have been in worse shape had it not been for the efforts of the Australian coastwatchers. Without the warnings from the coast watchers, the marine fliers would have wasted valuable gas circling the field waiting for the enemy. The coast watchers' warnings helped save many American lives, and also had a direct impact on Galer himself when his Wildcat was shot down. "'Barbara Jane' couldn't swim, so I had to swim off and leave her. I was fortunate to encounter the coastwatchers who assisted me in getting back the next day," he joked. This was one of three planes Galer lost to the enemy during his two and a half months on Guadalcanal - after another shoot-down, two Marines swam out from the island to assist him; a third ended with a dead-stick landing on the island. Each time, Galer went back into action, and in less than a month he accrued 11 individual kills.
The Coast Watching Organisation of World War 2 was based on from the original Australian Coast Watching organisation which started in 1919 when selected civilian personnel in coastal areas were organised on a voluntary basis to report in time of war any unusual or suspicious events along the Australian coastline. The concept was quickly extended to include New Guinea (but not Dutch New Guinea) as well as Papua and the Solomon Islands.
The Coast Watching Organisation (WW2) commenced in 1939 under the command of the Royal Australian Navy through the Naval Intelligence Division, Navy Office, Melbourne. Lieutenant Commander R.B.M. Long was the Director of Naval Intelligence at that time. Lieutenant Commander Eric Feldt, who was on the Emergency List, was personally selected by Commander Long, mobilised and appointed Staff Officer (Intelligence), in Port Moresby. He had operational control of the Coast Watchers in the north eastern area of defence of Australia. This included the Australian Mandated Territories, Papua, and the Solomon Islands. There were about 800 personnel in the Coast Watching Organisation in 1939.
Eric Feldt had resigned from the Navy before the war and was employed by the Government in New Guinea. He knew the Island people, the Government Officials and the Plantation Managers who all placed great trust in Eric Feldt. Because of Eric Feldt, many civilian Coast Watchers opted to stay in New Guinea after war was declared and other civilians were ordered to be evacuated. They volunteered to stay behind Japanese lines and risked being captured as a civilian spy by the Japanese.
In 1942 the remaining Coast Watchers were mobilised into Navy service.
The Coast Watchers, such as Paul Edward Mason who was located on the southern end of Bougainville Island, would monitor Japanese activities and maintain radio contact with the Combined Operational Intelligence Centre (COIC) located in a secret command centre inside Castle Hill in Townsville. COIC was part of the Area Combined Headquarters located at Green Street in Townsville.
The Coast Watchers included reliable persons such as:-
- Post Masters
- Harbour Masters
- Railway officials
- School teachers
- Local police
- Government servants and officials
- Missionaries
- Civilian airline pilots
- Patrol Officers
- District Officers
- Plantation owners
Many of the above Government officials would have ready access to radio equipment as part of their normal public service role. They would report on:-
- unusual or suspicious events
- sightings of ships, aircraft or floating mines
- other matters of defence interest
The Navy would supply the Coast Watchers with Playfair Codes for their communications. Pedal radios were initially used for some of the remote Coast Watchers who did not have access to radios in their normal Government job.
The Coast Watchers worked on a voluntary basis entirely without remuneration. The Naval Intelligence Division produced and distributed a document called "The Coast Watching Guide".
After General Douglas MacArthur came to Australia and was appointed Supreme Commander of the South West Pacific area, Commander Long called a conference in Melbourne of all the Intelligence groups. Eric Feldt attended this meeting. Commander Long outlined a scheme to form a unit from all the different Service Units of the different countries which would report directly to General Headquarters (GHQ). This new unit would be funded by all the countries involved and would carry out activities behind enemy lines using resources from all of the countries involved. Not long after this meeting the Allied Intelligence Bureau (AIB) was formed in June 1942.
The Coast Watch Organisation or Combined Field Intelligence Service then became known as Section "C" of the Allied Intelligence Bureau (AIB). The role of Section "C" was "obtaining all possible information about the enemy, his disposition, movements, strength, etc. through such agencies as the coast watchers, native agents and civilian operations".
The Coast Watchers in the South Pacific Area remained part of Australian Naval Intelligence. To avoid any confusion with the two line of command, Lieutenant Commander Eric Feldt was placed in charge of the Coast Watchers in both areas. He would report to GHQ, SWPA for the South West Pacific Area and to Naval Intelligence, Melbourne for the South Pacific area.
And this
But the Japanese were turned back at Midway and the Americans seized the initiative, invading Guadalcanal in August. Galer's VMF-224 landed there on August 30. Henderson Field was under construction; few mechanics were in place; mud was everywhere. But the Seabees worked miracles with PSP (pierced steel planking), and the "Cactus Air Force" began taking its toll on the Japanese bombers. Galer's pilots scrambled continuously to meet the Japanese aerial onslaught. Typically coastwatchers stationed in the Solomons warned them of incoming Japanese attacks. "Forty bombers headed yours," was a well-rembered radio message from the isolated coastwatchers. The fighters of VMF-224, VMF-211, and whatever else Cactus could put in the air would take off, looking to gain altitude before the Japs arrived. When the shooting started, they went for the bombers. After the dogfighting, if ammo remained, they would strafe enemy ships or ground positions.
Although short of gas at times, Galer said the aviators would have been in worse shape had it not been for the efforts of the Australian coastwatchers. Without the warnings from the coast watchers, the marine fliers would have wasted valuable gas circling the field waiting for the enemy. The coast watchers' warnings helped save many American lives, and also had a direct impact on Galer himself when his Wildcat was shot down. "'Barbara Jane' couldn't swim, so I had to swim off and leave her. I was fortunate to encounter the coastwatchers who assisted me in getting back the next day," he joked. This was one of three planes Galer lost to the enemy during his two and a half months on Guadalcanal - after another shoot-down, two Marines swam out from the island to assist him; a third ended with a dead-stick landing on the island. Each time, Galer went back into action, and in less than a month he accrued 11 individual kills.
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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HMSWarspite
- Posts: 1404
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:38 pm
- Location: Bristol, UK
Re: How do you kill those stinkin' coastwatchers?
Originally posted by Yamamoto
Before the 2.20 patch Coastwatcher reports weren't reported to the Japanese side. I had no idea how much these guys reported. Even after I've taken the hex and all the colored dots next to them they still manage to report on my movements. You'd think with enough land forces in the hex that we could find them and kill them. Is there any way to do that in this game? If not, is there anything that can make them less effective (other than avoiding my bases in the slot where they seem to be hanging out) ?
Yamamoto
No, you can't kill them, upset them, or influence them in any way. They are part of the scenary, get used to them!:D
As to thinking you could find them, have a quick think. There is one guy (most likely) somewhere along 30 miles of coast (best case), or a 30 mile circle of jungle/poor terrain/small islands (worst case), who knows the terrain, has lived there for years, is probably known to the locals who aren't in a rush to betray him. You could spend months tracking each one. And then you discover that another has been activated 30 miles up the coast! He has a radio you could track, but I do not know how many direction finding kits IJN/A had in the area. Or how effective they were.
Anyone know what sort of % were actually caught in RL? I know that the coast watchers were still very effective months after they found themselves behind the lines. I do know that a number worked well right up until the war passed them the second time (going back the other way!)
I have a cunning plan, My Lord
Twice, during the turn resolution i heard a single gunshot stopping the coastwatcher transmittion in the middle: am i the only one to notice that ? (i am not kidding).
----edit----
It sounds like a very short 1050.wav followed by a 1288/1390.wav. But perhaps it was just "luck" that the two sounds were following each others closely.
----edit----
It sounds like a very short 1050.wav followed by a 1288/1390.wav. But perhaps it was just "luck" that the two sounds were following each others closely.
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Posted by Drex
Though primarily Aussies, the Poms and Kiwis also had coastwatchers in the region.
The number of Coastwatchers scattered through Northern Australia, New Guinea and the Solomons was about 700. About 40 were caught and executed, as well as 60 natives who were working with them.
Beside their intel work, they also rescued hundreds of allied pilots, sailors and even POWs. Obviously though, it was their reports of incoming Jap air raids heading for Henderson that is what they're remembered most for.
As much as I find having my fleet movements reported annoying (when playing the Japs), my sympathies still lie with the guys tapping away on the radio key.
Here's some history I'm not familiar with. Our Aussie members should be able to tell us how successful these guys were.some were caught I'm sure but I bet most of them survived. I don't think the Japanese took these guys prisoners.
Though primarily Aussies, the Poms and Kiwis also had coastwatchers in the region.
The number of Coastwatchers scattered through Northern Australia, New Guinea and the Solomons was about 700. About 40 were caught and executed, as well as 60 natives who were working with them.
Beside their intel work, they also rescued hundreds of allied pilots, sailors and even POWs. Obviously though, it was their reports of incoming Jap air raids heading for Henderson that is what they're remembered most for.
As much as I find having my fleet movements reported annoying (when playing the Japs), my sympathies still lie with the guys tapping away on the radio key.
Have no fear,
drink more beer.
drink more beer.
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Cap Mandrake
- Posts: 20737
- Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:37 am
- Location: Southern California
Originally posted by Welcome!
Twice, during the turn resolution i heard a single gunshot stopping the coastwatcher transmittion in the middle: am i the only one to notice that ? (i am not kidding).
Oh come on!
Admit it...you are pulling our legs. I could swear I heard Cary Grant's voice in one coastwatcher report though.
I was woundering that toI guessI
I guess you have to live with them.
One of great things about the forems is,you have a question,someone has the answer.
I've sent for a company of comfort girls.I'm going to have them walk nude on the beach,lure them out.
"hey baby you got girlfriend ng?well baby I'm sooo lonely"
One of great things about the forems is,you have a question,someone has the answer.
I've sent for a company of comfort girls.I'm going to have them walk nude on the beach,lure them out.
"hey baby you got girlfriend ng?well baby I'm sooo lonely"
I'm boomboom.I don't want to control the sea.I ain't no calvery general[horses stink].I don't want to fight the next world war.I want to go back to dog patch,and fall in love.
Few were caught and if caught, a single man operation was easily replaced. The Japanese expended a lot of effort to stop coast watching but to little avail. I suppose that the game also is abstracting the various native populations on the islands who for the most part remained loyal to their colonial masters. The allies got a lot of help from them as well. This is why the Japanese did not have an effective coastwatching network as they really were working in a more hostile enviroment, and by virtue of misguided policy toward the local inhabitiants, were not well treated when the natives had a chance to exact some revenge.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
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Oleg Mastruko
- Posts: 4534
- Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 8:00 am
Coastwatchers are just one of the 10 zillions of "devices" that make this excellent game virtually unplayable as Japanese, against any half-capable US opponent. I think it's sometimes ridicolous how many little things go in Allied favor here. Japs had their "coastwatchers" and friendly natives too, but they are not modelled.
I'll say it again - this is excellent game, but I wonder whether coastwatchers really oughta been modelled at this scale? Their influence in the game is ridicolous - not a turn passes without 3-4 fantastically accurate reports by them! And Jap player can't do a THING to stop them.
Unless there is significant difference in experience level between PBEM opponents, I find this game is senseless if played as Jap, and am very sorry for that. Scen #17, #19, does not matter... Yea, Mogami might chime in, with his favorite winning Jap strategies, but I won't change my opinion...
O.
I'll say it again - this is excellent game, but I wonder whether coastwatchers really oughta been modelled at this scale? Their influence in the game is ridicolous - not a turn passes without 3-4 fantastically accurate reports by them! And Jap player can't do a THING to stop them.
Unless there is significant difference in experience level between PBEM opponents, I find this game is senseless if played as Jap, and am very sorry for that. Scen #17, #19, does not matter... Yea, Mogami might chime in, with his favorite winning Jap strategies, but I won't change my opinion...
O.
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Cap Mandrake
- Posts: 20737
- Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:37 am
- Location: Southern California
Re: I was woundering that toI guessI
Originally posted by boomboom
I guess you have to live with them.
One of great things about the forems is,you have a question,someone has the answer.
I've sent for a company of comfort girls.I'm going to have them walk nude on the beach,lure them out.
"hey baby you got girlfriend ng?well baby I'm sooo lonely"
LololYou have a ring of authenticity on this subject.
I'll say it again - this is excellent game, but I wonder whether coastwatchers really oughta been modelled at this scale? Their influence in the game is ridicolous - not a turn passes without 3-4 fantastically accurate reports by them! And Jap player can't do a THING to stop them.
Use this to your advantage, YOU know the Allies are getting these reports, but ONLY from ships in coastal hexes. Nothing stops you from parking your entire navy 1 hex farther and waiting for the poor Allies to send a little task force to deal with the single AP that is crawling down the coast.
Knowledge is power, partial knowledge is dangerous.
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Oleg Mastruko
- Posts: 4534
- Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 8:00 am
Originally posted by Mr.Frag
Use this to your advantage, YOU know the Allies are getting these reports, but ONLY from ships in coastal hexes. Nothing stops you from parking your entire navy 1 hex farther and waiting for the poor Allies to send a little task force to deal with the single AP that is crawling down the coast.
That would be cool and dandy, but tell me how do I make level-6 naval base one hex from the shore?
I can live with coastwatchers in, say, Guadalcanal or NG, but having them in Shortland is, IMO, ridicolous. The island is so small, a naval inf. battalion would be combing it all in no time, finding any coastwatchers and destroying their equipment. Was there any cw on Shortlands historically?
But this is all moot. What I wanted to say is coastwatchers are just one of the many things that make this game ridicolously easy for any Allied player, and incredibly hard for Japs (unless there as HUGE difference in experience level between PBEM opponents).
O.
In a PBEM turn I just finished there were 20 coastwatcher reports. Basically, my opponent knows where every TF I have is if it comes within sigh of land for even 1 hex of movement during the turn. Since I can't set waypoints( not do I want that level of micromanagement) it makes it almost a sure thing that he will know where my ships are at some point during the turn. These guys aren't coastwatchers... more like spy satellites.
Yamamoto
Yamamoto
What I wanted to say is coastwatchers are just one of the many things that make this game ridicolously easy for any Allied player, and incredibly hard for Japs (unless there as HUGE difference in experience level between PBEM opponents).
Oleg, I think that is excessively exaggerating their impact on gameplay.
I think that the overly accurate allied bombing is far more disruptive to game balance than coastwatchers.
"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC
I think it depends on your opponent as to how effective coastwatchers are. If your opponent is someone who takes 15 minutes on a turn, you probably don't have much to worry about. If he is someone who takes an hour to do an average turn, well then you are probably screwed.
x-Nuc twidget
CVN-71
USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"
CVN-71
USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"
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Oleg Mastruko
- Posts: 4534
- Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 8:00 am
Originally posted by denisonh
Oleg, I think that is excessively exaggerating their impact on gameplay.
I think that the overly accurate allied bombing is far more disruptive to game balance than coastwatchers.
Well, that's basically what I said. I said cws are "just one of the many things that make this game ridicolously easy for any Allied player, and incredibly hard for Japs"...
I, or we, could go on and on listing "devices" allied player has in his favor, and sure bombers are among them too...
O.