Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Centuur
The nice thing about MWIF is, that you don't have to ask those questions anymore. It's all coded, so that's how it is... The rule lawyers will lose their jobs... [:D]
Or me being too stubborn to accede to their point of view.[;)]ORIGINAL: Extraneous
If Steve gets it wrong then it's the Beta Test teams fault for not bringing it to his attention.
ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
Don't take me wrong, I take that Steve was an excellent interpreter of the rules even before he started this project, which made him analyze every single step of them, in order to code the game. [&o]
However, I have seen WIF gurues make mistakes...
Although I know you will argue the point, you are wrong.[:-]ORIGINAL: Extraneous
ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
Don't take me wrong, I take that Steve was an excellent interpreter of the rules even before he started this project, which made him analyze every single step of them, in order to code the game. [&o]
However, I have seen WIF gurues make mistakes...
[:D] Don't get me wrong I thank Steve has done a good job with CWiF.
But there are two types of programmers:
Development Programmers who start from scrath and code the whole program or system.
Maintence Programmers who take existing programs or systems and make changes to them.
Steve is a Maintence Programmer. And there is nothing wrong with being a Maintence Programmer. [:D]
Therefore special thanks should be given to the people who helped Steve:
Captain for his leadership of CWiF.
Patrice for his tireless work on the maps.
All the people how helped with the write ups.
[:)] Joseignacio how can you judge Steve's abilities with CWiF prior to 2005 when the first Beta Test team was anounced [&:]
Did you really need to use the word Titanic?[;)]ORIGINAL: paulderynck
There are a huge number of rules in WiF that have been argued over and over because of the imperfections within the English language and to some extent imperfections in clarity. We need to be cognizant that whether the MWiF interpretation is right or wrong, it may appear to differ from what the RAW says, even if the RAC document does not say there is a deviation.
Even once the game is published, it will be easier to change the RAC then the code. So once the game is published, there'll be little point in arguing what a rule means and whether it is enforced in MWiF.
There have been titanic efforts to get the code to align with the rules, but there are bound to be a few discrepancies...
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Although I know you will argue the point, you are wrong. [:-]
When the amount of code grows from 100,000 lines to over 400,000 lines that is not maintenance. When all the graphics, for the maps, units, and forms are changed, that is not maintenance. When there are another dozen unit types added, a couple dozen optional rules, and the number of forms is doubled to over 150, that is not maintenance. Of the 100,000 lines of original code in CWIF, there is probably less than half still included in MWIF.
The analogy would be to say that someone who bought a new suit, shirt, tie, shoes, and socks, but kept his old underwear, had just updated his old wardrobe - instead of replacing it.
Now if you want to get technical, many of the fundamental routines in CWIF were written in Assembler, and I have replaced their functionality with code written in Delphi. Likewise, CWIF used a monolithic rectangle to encapsulate all the forms, which I replaced with an open design to let players place forms anywhere they want on multiple monitors. That decision requires changing the most basic compile option for programs written in Delphi.
I've also restructured the modules used to progress the sequence of play from less than 6 to over 60, changing the processing sequence to support NetPlay.
But, hey, if you want, you could argue that the IPhone 5 is just a maintenance improvement of the Apple II. [:D]
Changing from Assembler to Delphi decreases the number of lines of code.ORIGINAL: Extraneous
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Although I know you will argue the point, you are wrong. [:-]
When the amount of code grows from 100,000 lines to over 400,000 lines that is not maintenance. When all the graphics, for the maps, units, and forms are changed, that is not maintenance. When there are another dozen unit types added, a couple dozen optional rules, and the number of forms is doubled to over 150, that is not maintenance. Of the 100,000 lines of original code in CWIF, there is probably less than half still included in MWIF.
The analogy would be to say that someone who bought a new suit, shirt, tie, shoes, and socks, but kept his old underwear, had just updated his old wardrobe - instead of replacing it.
Now if you want to get technical, many of the fundamental routines in CWIF were written in Assembler, and I have replaced their functionality with code written in Delphi. Likewise, CWIF used a monolithic rectangle to encapsulate all the forms, which I replaced with an open design to let players place forms anywhere they want on multiple monitors. That decision requires changing the most basic compile option for programs written in Delphi.
I've also restructured the modules used to progress the sequence of play from less than 6 to over 60, changing the processing sequence to support NetPlay.
But, hey, if you want, you could argue that the IPhone 5 is just a maintenance improvement of the Apple II. [:D]
Lets look at the definition of development and maintenance programming,
program development - technical definition
May refer to the coding of an individual software program or to the creation on an entire information system and all related software. See programming and system development cycle.
Definition: Maintenance programming: Altering programs after they have been in use for a while. Maintenance programming may be performed to add features, correct bugs that escaped detection during testing, or update key variables (such as the inflation rate) that change over time.
In Assembly language each statement corresponds to a single machine code instruction. Where Delphi language is essentially object Pascal.
You chose to change the program language from Assembly language (there is a difference between Assembler language and Assembly language and CWiF was not written for a mainframe computer) to Delphi, which increased the amount of code.
To use your analogy you had a perfectly good suit and went out and chose to buy a new one. It sounds like you updated your wardrobe to me.
ORIGINAL: Jimm
Can you EVER not have the last word, Extraneous?
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Changing from Assembler to Delphi decreases the number of lines of code.
1) CWIF was still a beta version when I received the source code. "Have been in use for a while" is very vague.
2) As for "a perfectly good suit", don't you care if the pants have a large hole in the back?[;)]
ORIGINAL: wif_o_matic
Question relating to the original topic:
Situation:
- France is vichied and controls N Africa including Morocco
- CW DoWs Vichy, calls a combined and invades Casablanca with a div
- there is no supply line from Casablanca to a city in Metro Vichy
- there is a Moroccan territorial in Rabat
I calculate the notional as +1 (notional), +1 (city), -1 (surprise), -1 (no basic supply line of any length to Vichy)
For a total of 0, for an automatic successful invasion.
- however a friend argued that the hex was Moroccan and was in supply from Rabat which would equal a notional of 1.
What say you people? Is Casablanca a Vichy hex or is it a Moroccan minor hex? And therefore is it a notional 0 or 1?
Cheers,
Ben
Original: WIFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf
2.4.2 Tracing supply
To be in supply, a unit must be able to trace a supply path back to a primary supply source.
A primary supply source for a unit is:
• any friendly city in the unit’s unconquered home country; or
• for a Commonwealth unit, any friendly city in another unconquered Commonwealth home country; or
• any friendly city in an unconquered home country of a major power the unit co-operates with (see 18.1).
If the unit can’t trace a supply path directly to a primary supply source, it can trace it via one or more secondary supply sources instead.
A secondary supply source for a unit is:
• an HQ the unit co-operates with (see 18.1); or
• the capital city of a minor country controlled by the unit’s major power; or
• the capital city of a major power, or a minor country, conquered by the unit’s major power, or by a major power the unit co-operates with.
A secondary supply source of the tracing unit must be able to trace a supply path either to a primary supply source or via another secondary supply source. That other secondary source must also be able to trace a supply path either to a primary source or via another secondary source, and so on. There can be any number of secondary supply sources in this chain but it must end up at a primary supply source of the unit tracing the path.
I don't agree, Extranous. Morocco is an unconquered minor country at start of 1939, aligned with France, according to RAW. Therefore, the notional unit is a Moroccan unit, which is in supply if he can trace to a Morrocan city.ORIGINAL: Extraneous
ORIGINAL: wif_o_matic
Question relating to the original topic:
Situation:
- France is vichied and controls N Africa including Morocco
- CW DoWs Vichy, calls a combined and invades Casablanca with a div
- there is no supply line from Casablanca to a city in Metro Vichy
- there is a Moroccan territorial in Rabat
I calculate the notional as +1 (notional), +1 (city), -1 (surprise), -1 (no basic supply line of any length to Vichy)
For a total of 0, for an automatic successful invasion.
- however a friend argued that the hex was Moroccan and was in supply from Rabat which would equal a notional of 1.
What say you people? Is Casablanca a Vichy hex or is it a Moroccan minor hex? And therefore is it a notional 0 or 1?
Cheers,
Ben
Original: WIFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf
2.4.2 Tracing supply
To be in supply, a unit must be able to trace a supply path back to a primary supply source.
A primary supply source for a unit is:
• any friendly city in the unit’s unconquered home country; or
• for a Commonwealth unit, any friendly city in another unconquered Commonwealth home country; or
• any friendly city in an unconquered home country of a major power the unit co-operates with (see 18.1).
If the unit can’t trace a supply path directly to a primary supply source, it can trace it via one or more secondary supply sources instead.
A secondary supply source for a unit is:
• an HQ the unit co-operates with (see 18.1); or
• the capital city of a minor country controlled by the unit’s major power; or
• the capital city of a major power, or a minor country, conquered by the unit’s major power, or by a major power the unit co-operates with.
A secondary supply source of the tracing unit must be able to trace a supply path either to a primary supply source or via another secondary supply source. That other secondary source must also be able to trace a supply path either to a primary source or via another secondary source, and so on. There can be any number of secondary supply sources in this chain but it must end up at a primary supply source of the unit tracing the path.
Vichy France would be an active major power but not hostile.
Morroco is out of supply if you cant trace supply to Vichy France.
No +1.
17.2 Determine control
Roll a die for each of the other administration groups to determine who controls it. A group becomes controlled by the (Free) French player if the roll is within the range shown on this chart. Otherwise, it remains controlled by Vichy France
17.5 Combat with Vichy
If Vichy French land units are involved in a land combat, or are overrun, solely by units controlled by an Allied major power they are not hostile to, they may defect before combat.
Roll a die immediately before land combat or the overrun for each Vichy unit (including notional units) involved. On a 4 or less, the Vichy unit is destroyed prior to combat resolution. If no Axis land units remain, an (attacking) Allied major power can advance after combat as if it were a ‘B’ result. Allied land units stay face-up. Shore bombarding ships and ground supporting bombers still turn face-down. If it’s an overrun, you just pay the normal terrain cost, not double.
The declaration of war does not make Vichy France hostile to that Allied major power. However, if an Allied unit enters Metropolitan Vichy France, Vichy France becomes hostile to that unit’s controlling major power.
