Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

If your Rangoon landing is a success I think you opponent will become...quite nervous! [:D] If you can entrench in the Jungles of Burma with the whole Chinese army in supply there...I don´t think he can move you out.

Any chance for a Burma map? [:)]

I'm more of a mobile mindset with the Chinese hordes than camping. I want to force Japan to a series of hard decisions. Having Singers of course makes this easier, and I think one of the decisions is going to be about taking that place at any price. We shall see.

I'm also a Navy guy, not a soldier. I like mobilty on the water. Unless a lot of the IJN is put in the B. of B. that whole long, open coast is a problem for them. The game doesn't have a lot of the historic political considerations RL did for using Allied navies cooperatively. And the narrow piece of land between Bangkok and Malaysia is like a chicken's neck. Easy to break.

Mike and I are going to try to flip a few today (Sunday), but I'll try to get some maps up, yes. Might do the turns and bank the data, then do the AARs en masse on Monday.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by DOCUP »

I like your strategy on this Bull.  balls to the wall.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

April 19, 1942

Blood Over Singapore

Hard day for Japan in the skies. The results today led to an email exchange with Mike about Singers and his level of frustration there. I broke opsec pretty severely to relate some of the things that have gone on from my side, and to try to show that none of them are due to "borkiness" of the game. I think Singers could be a break point for this game if it doesn't change soon, and I'd like to keep playing. I told Mike I think, from just my observations, that he relies on air power a bit too much. I also showed him how the things he's seen with fort-building are possible and not magic, and that the key to the whole campaign has been supply. He thought that us doing the upgrade which "switched on" LI production when enemies are in a hex has been his undoing, but I told him that has been a minor amount of supply. The rest has come in by sea. He also thought I had flown in lots of new engineers and I told him that was not the case. I hope this cleared the air. Today was a tough day for him to have to watch unfold.

1) Yesterday Singers got 5 of 6 bombing misisons without escorts, and there was no CAP. Today, there was CAP, flown in from Batavia. And again, most of the missions were unescorted.

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 37

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 14
P-400 Airacobra x 20
P-40E Warhawk x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 10 destroyed, 1 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak
--------------------

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 12

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 9
P-400 Airacobra x 19
P-40E Warhawk x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak
-------------------


Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 6
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 19

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 9
P-400 Airacobra x 17
P-40E Warhawk x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 1 destroyed by flak
----------------------

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 9

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 9
P-400 Airacobra x 16
P-40E Warhawk x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
------------------------

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 10
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 34
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 12

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 9
P-400 Airacobra x 16
P-40E Warhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 3 destroyed, 8 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-400 Airacobra: 1 destroyed
-------------------

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 11

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 8
P-400 Airacobra x 13
P-40E Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak
----------------------------

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 11

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 6
P-400 Airacobra x 13
P-40E Warhawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed by flak
-------------------------

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 5
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 20

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 6
P-400 Airacobra x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-400 Airacobra: 1 destroyed
------------------------

Sumary of the day:



Image

2) More mines:

TF 58 encounters mine field at Port Blair (46,58)

Japanese Ships
SS I-162, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

3) New evidence Japan is heavily guarding the entrance to the Sea of Japan. USS Drum, now with radar, evades the defenses:

ASW attack near Orchid Island at 86,68

Japanese Ships
DMS Taboko
DD Kuretake
E Ishinui


Allied Ships
SS Drum

4) More evidence for the "night bombing is nuclear!!!!!" crowd that it isn't:

Night Air attack on Toungoo , at 57,50

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 1 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 0 minutes

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 6

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Blenheim IV bombing from 2000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

Bupkis!

5) CL Jintsu is seen and bombed/missed near Victoria Point. Intel shows her heading SE. May be a squat/refuel location. I really want this ship to try out the Strait. (See scrfeenshot in next post.)

6) Samarinda Oil hit for 2 by B-17s.

7) Inbound Rangoon TFs hesitate, reverse, wring their hands, etc. Oscars appear at Rangoon, but nothing heavier. They are used for anti-shipping stirkes at Akyab and at sea, but the inbounds have CLs or better in company. LRCAP will be adjusted for tomorow. The RN carriers are cheated forward to help, and a third carrier, just out of upgrade at Colombo, will head over to help tomorrow. The second landing waves at Pt. Blair are sent on their way, minesweepers for Rangoon are ordered in (don't think there are any, but these guys complicate targeting at a minimum), a feint/sponge mineLAYER TF is sent for Moulmein, also in case DDs lurk there. There is an anchor symbol at Rangoon, which is more likely the DD remnants of the CL TF from four days ago. The landing TFs can handle those. The RN BBs leave to circle off the Rangoon river mouth. See screen shot two posts down. It's a complex series of moves, loads, routes, and marches. Mr. FUDD would be running in circles with a loaded shotgun about now. I just want to get some combat LCUs into Rangoon and then sort out the next steps.

8) Another attmept on Urumchi. Another hold by China.

Ground combat at Urumchi (79,11)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 2732 troops, 40 guns, 100 vehicles, Assault Value = 72

Defending force 1870 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 78

Japanese adjusted assault: 28

Allied adjusted defense: 165

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 5 (fort level 1)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
54 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
24 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
1st Cavalry Brigade
4th Cavalry Brigade

Defending units:
303rd Brigade

9) Japan lands at open Batan Island. At Bataan the Allies bombard once more.

Japanese ground losses:
106 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled

Allied ground losses:
70 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

Straits of Malacca Defenses



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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

My attempt to show FUDD as of start of April 20th turn:



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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

For documentation purposes after our email exchange. This is the recent history of Singers' fortification and air field damage.



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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

April 20, 1942

Wild Times With The FUDDster

All hell breaks loose. We're makin' this up as we go along, folks!

1) Multiple TFs closing on Rangoon. A poor little Dutch CM dies for a good cause. There is red evil afloat near Rangoon. Where the heck did these guys come from?

Night Time Surface Combat, near Rangoon at 52,55, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Haguro
CL Isuzu
CL Tama
DD Hayashio

Allied Ships
CM Krakatau, Shell hits 4, and is sunk

Moulmein wil get no mines, but this hard sighting makes a lot of difference.

2) The IJN finds the TF I didn't want it to, the one carrying the Corps HQ and the RAF base force. Debated holding it off until D+3 or 4, but thought the HQ was more needed than not. Now it's gone. A bad hit.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Rangoon at 52,55, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Haguro, Shell hits 1
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 1
CL Tama
DD Hayashio

Allied Ships
CL Ceres, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
xAP Santhia, Shell hits 17, and is sunk
xAP Gogra, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Nirpura, Shell hits 34, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
4987 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 452 destroyed, 274 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 165 (142 destroyed, 23 disabled)

3) But that's not all, folks. In Round 3, this TF finds a core Rangoon landing force. This one is not so easily pushed around.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Rangoon at 52,55, Range 25,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Haguro, Shell hits 16, on fire
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 1
CL Tama, Shell hits 1
DD Hayashio

Allied Ships
CA Exeter, Shell hits 5
CL Hobart
CL Dauntless
CL Glasgow
CLAA Van Heemskerck
DD Isaac Sweers
DD Nestor
xAP Duchess of Bedford, Shell hits 2
xAP Tilawa
xAK Catrine, Shell hits 2, on fire
xAK Ozarda
xAK Shirina
xAK Surada, Shell hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Varsova
xAP Australia Star, Shell hits 1
AMC Pansy, Shell hits 1

Allied ground losses:
110 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 33 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 7 (1 destroyed, 6 disabled)
Vehicles lost 22 (3 destroyed, 19 disabled)

CA Hauro's fires are pretty bad; most from superstructure hits/explosions. Some Japanese ships had weapons knocked out, and they should be about empty of torpedoes. None of the landing ships took any engine or float damage I could see. This was the TF I'd rather meet these guys third and not first. I was hoping the TBs or the BBs would find them. Maybe tomorrow. For today the Allies got off light.



Image

4) At the end of the turn some Allied TF--can't tell which in the gaggle--is in Rangoon harbor, but does not unload. There appear to be no mines. Japan proceeds to use massive numbers of Zeroes and Oscars on naval attack. This has worked well at Singers against merchants. Not so much against the RN cruisers in escort. Fulmars and Martlets from the RN carriers fight off a good numebr as well. Won't document all of them, but a few 60kg bomb tickles land at the cost of a lot of fighters. The attacked TF presses on for Rangoon.

Tomorrow the carriers will be moved again, and the BBs will take better locations for surface action. There is a very good possibility that Bettys could move in over night. If so that will be the case. FUDD goes on.

4) The operation's first objective falls. Chinese troops can be useful in some cases.

Ground combat at Prome (55,50)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 9739 troops, 38 guns, 34 vehicles, Assault Value = 686

Defending force 7543 troops, 76 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 262

Allied adjusted assault: 164

Japanese adjusted defense: 39

Allied assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Prome !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
2125 casualties reported
Squads: 199 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 150 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 8 (8 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 2

Allied ground losses:
62 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 21 (21 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
54th Chinese Corps
43rd Cavalry Regiment
60th Chinese Corps

Defending units:
2nd RTA Division
4th RTA Division

5) Viper Force starts to come ashore in the clear, non-base hex west of Bassein. They will assault this base over land. They were supposed to be the para drop.

6) More mines.

TF 74 encounters mine field at Johnston Island (164,112)

Japanese Ships
SS I-9, Mine hits 1, on fire

7) IJN carriers are operating between Johnson I. and Pearl. They read as CVEs, but I suspect not. They are close enough I could put the USN carriers to sea, cover them with 100+ P-40 LRCAP, and attack. I still may. I don't know what this is for, or about. Seems crazy to me. Which means I should probably leave it alone. Johnson's lone DB squadron did not fly, which might mean they know more about the CAP than I do.

8) Singers gets very light treatment after yesterday. The CAP is withdrawn, but it gets swept anyway.

9) Correction to yesterday--USS Drum is not near the Sea of Japan. The ASW TF she encountered was nearer the Pescadores.

10) Japan takes Babo and its oil. The Dutch sub in residence gets off a shot, but misses.

11) An I-boat off San Francisco does not. Down goes xAK Mana.

12) S-36 puts a fish in xAK Toko Maru near Donggala. It should survive.

More fun and games tomorrow!!!
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by V I Lenin »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


1) Multiple TFs closing on Rangoon. A poor little Dutch CM dies for a good cause. There is red evil afloat near Rangoon. Where the heck did these guys come from?

You still hold Java, yes? So, they presumably go past Singapore - in stock map it is possible to pass west of Singapore hex. (Babes map I believe modified it so this is not possible). Considering you are holding it, very 'questionable' I think - Malacca-strait here is only about 4-5m deep west of Pulau Kundur, and east of it is exposed to fortress guns. So, not 'technically impossible' but perhaps rather absurd.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by JocMeister »

Some good and some bad eh!?

Thanks for the map! Makes it easier to follow along! [:)]

I have no idea why your opponent is upset? He sends in unescorted bombers and get shot down. Its not even that many (70-80 or so?) By not escorting he is risking getting jumped every turn. He should know this.

Are you going to cancel FUDD now or go ahead with the landing? I´d go ahead if you still think you can establish a base despite losing the BF(s?)

Interesting to see he is relying on RTA divisions. Those guys are crap. Obviously even worse than the Chinese! [:D] Nice work getting Prome. I would seriously look at the possibility of getting many, many Chinese Corps to Burma. If you can get say 10-15k supplied Chinese AV in Burma I don´t think he will be able to get you out. Even if he went all in for it. But whatever you decide you need to open the mountain roads to China!
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: V I Lenin

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


1) Multiple TFs closing on Rangoon. A poor little Dutch CM dies for a good cause. There is red evil afloat near Rangoon. Where the heck did these guys come from?

You still hold Java, yes? So, they presumably go past Singapore - in stock map it is possible to pass west of Singapore hex. (Babes map I believe modified it so this is not possible). Considering you are holding it, very 'questionable' I think - Malacca-strait here is only about 4-5m deep west of Pulau Kundur, and east of it is exposed to fortress guns. So, not 'technically impossible' but perhaps rather absurd.

I still hold Java, but I don't think either of the two cruiser TFs came up the strait. I have patrols looking right down the strait from Sabang, and others at Palembang looking south of Singers. I agree you can sneak by; I've run my subs through there although I know where the mines are. If he did that it was very, very gusty.

I also have patrols and a sub in the passage between Oosthaven and Merak, with lots of patrols from Batavia looking north. I do not have much of anything looking west or south though.

I suspect he came the long way, through the island groups around Timor or between Timor and JAva, swung out into the IO, and came into Victoria Point, Rangoon, or other west coast base running on fumes. Which is one reason I want to hurt these guys enough to need a yard. There isn't one.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Some good and some bad eh!?

Thanks for the map! Makes it easier to follow along! [:)]

I have no idea why your opponent is upset? He sends in unescorted bombers and get shot down. Its not even that many (70-80 or so?) By not escorting he is risking getting jumped every turn. He should know this.

Are you going to cancel FUDD now or go ahead with the landing? I´d go ahead if you still think you can establish a base despite losing the BF(s?)

Interesting to see he is relying on RTA divisions. Those guys are crap. Obviously even worse than the Chinese! [:D] Nice work getting Prome. I would seriously look at the possibility of getting many, many Chinese Corps to Burma. If you can get say 10-15k supplied Chinese AV in Burma I don´t think he will be able to get you out. Even if he went all in for it. But whatever you decide you need to open the mountain roads to China!

The map is another swag. It doesn't show important detail in the stacks or really what is going on around Toungoo. And it changed markedly this last turn at sea.

I don't want to air dirty laundry here re the emails. I think on balance they were useful. Mike is not a guy to pout. He's a stand-up player, and PBEM players know that sometimes one side or the other has a bad day. There's a fine line in both directions between trying to ease the game along, looking like a know-it-all, pity, opsec giveaways, and misunderstanding. I told Mike truthfully that he's taught me a lot about land maneuvering, and that his efforts around Hawaii have thrown off my time tables by months.

I asked him if the issue was the CAP being there on and off, or the CAP being there at all. He said the latter. He believes that Singers should be hard-closed from his bombing. He is getting accurate (within FOW) reports of daily damage and doesn't understand how the engineers can fix it every night, over and over. He said, again accurately, that he's sending 100+ MB raids there every day and it should be enough to close the AF and stop fort building. He expressed the idea that it's the scenario's fault, and that "stock" (I assume he meant Scen 1) doesn't allow this sort of uber-base defense. As that was the second round of emails I didn't say that the changes in Scen 2 are ALL to Japan's advanatge. The Allies don't get anything new. I also asked, without expecting an answer but to suggest there is balance here, when the non-historical R&D we agreed to in the set-up would start providing him some wonder planes?

I suggested as well that he might have erred early by splitting his bombing between Singers and the PI, and later 3-ways, adding Palembang. And that he's perhaps being too careful with his troops. Readers of this AAR know that he could almost certainly have had Singers on a couple of the attacks if he had used Shock. He's also let supply flow in, not risking IJN assets. I think the early use of TBs spooked him, but the supply missions into Singers have been well-documented here. Today the base still rests at 38,500 supply despite nothing going in but one APD a day for 180 each load.

FUDD is a go. It will take a lot more than I've seen so far to make me pull it back. Most of the force is actually marching in. Not needing PPs to move from India is fine, but the mass of the units are still restricted, can't go on ships, and I'm very short of PPs, having used large amounts to change LCU leaders all along the way. Taking Prome was good; taking Bassein will be good whan that happens. If all Rangoon has is RTA Rangoon will fall and with it the AF where the Zeros and Oscars live. If the landings are refused though the marchers are still coming. There are very good Aussie and Indian and Britsh units among their number.

As for Chinese in Burma there are a lot, but about 8 (?) corps so far have been sent to India and about 5 HQs. They have relieved Indian Army units, especialy armor, to head for Burma. More is on the rails right now. Those corps are set selectively to replace, and living in rich supply enviros such as Bombay I think some of them could be 700+-squad horror shows by late 1943 when they can return to their homeland.

The supply road through the Chinese mountains is a problem. I have some time; most everything in that stack has 500+ internal supply. But it's not a menace if it's out of supply. I have considered walking a few corps across the top of Tsuyung and getting hexsides which link to Paoshan, but Paoshan doesn't have any supply to spare either right now. I don't want to strip Chengtu of infantry to go after the tanks stopering the eastern road ingress since Chengtu is a bastion city for Chungking and an important secondary AF. If I lose it soon Chungking's job is much harder. I think I'll wait and see what his reaction to FUDD is before I do anything radical. If it makes him lash out from Tsuyung by either driving on Paoshan, or by moving into the mountains to challenge the Big Stack, that opens new possibilities. The Big Stack can survive 3-4 weeks under the status quo.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by BBfanboy »

About the loss of that HQ and BF .... Fudd happens![:D]
You have still mostly succeeded in your plans, and knowing that some of his carriers are waaaaay far away is great intel. Cawwy on Elmer!
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

About the loss of that HQ and BF .... Fudd happens![:D]
You have still mostly succeeded in your plans, and knowing that some of his carriers are waaaaay far away is great intel. Cawwy on Elmer!

Thanks. [:)]

I think the Corps can be rebuilt. The RAF base force was one of the big ones, and they cost a lot of devices. It might stay gone.

We never do Monday turns due to Mike's work. I am itching to get at the next one and see what's up with the TFs that got hit.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

The map is another swag. It doesn't show important detail in the stacks or really what is going on around Toungoo. And it changed markedly this last turn at sea.

I don't want to air dirty laundry here re the emails. I think on balance they were useful. Mike is not a guy to pout. He's a stand-up player, and PBEM players know that sometimes one side or the other has a bad day. There's a fine line in both directions between trying to ease the game along, looking like a know-it-all, pity, opsec giveaways, and misunderstanding. I told Mike truthfully that he's taught me a lot about land maneuvering, and that his efforts around Hawaii have thrown off my time tables by months.

I asked him if the issue was the CAP being there on and off, or the CAP being there at all. He said the latter. He believes that Singers should be hard-closed from his bombing. He is getting accurate (within FOW) reports of daily damage and doesn't understand how the engineers can fix it every night, over and over. He said, again accurately, that he's sending 100+ MB raids there every day and it should be enough to close the AF and stop fort building. He expressed the idea that it's the scenario's fault, and that "stock" (I assume he meant Scen 1) doesn't allow this sort of uber-base defense. As that was the second round of emails I didn't say that the changes in Scen 2 are ALL to Japan's advanatge. The Allies don't get anything new. I also asked, without expecting an answer but to suggest there is balance here, when the non-historical R&D we agreed to in the set-up would start providing him some wonder planes?

I suggested as well that he might have erred early by splitting his bombing between Singers and the PI, and later 3-ways, adding Palembang. And that he's perhaps being too careful with his troops. Readers of this AAR know that he could almost certainly have had Singers on a couple of the attacks if he had used Shock. He's also let supply flow in, not risking IJN assets. I think the early use of TBs spooked him, but the supply missions into Singers have been well-documented here. Today the base still rests at 38,500 supply despite nothing going in but one APD a day for 180 each load.


Well, I´m no stranger to venting! [:D] I hope he got it out of his system. He probably realizes now that he messed up the whole Singers assault. Letting you get supplies in...big mistake.
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
FUDD is a go. It will take a lot more than I've seen so far to make me pull it back. Most of the force is actually marching in. Not needing PPs to move from India is fine, but the mass of the units are still restricted, can't go on ships, and I'm very short of PPs, having used large amounts to change LCU leaders all along the way. Taking Prome was good; taking Bassein will be good whan that happens. If all Rangoon has is RTA Rangoon will fall and with it the AF where the Zeros and Oscars live. If the landings are refused though the marchers are still coming. There are very good Aussie and Indian and Britsh units among their number.

I´ll keep my fingers crossed. If you can grab Rangoon...its a sweet deal! [:D]
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
As for Chinese in Burma there are a lot, but about 8 (?) corps so far have been sent to India and about 5 HQs. They have relieved Indian Army units, especialy armor, to head for Burma. More is on the rails right now. Those corps are set selectively to replace, and living in rich supply enviros such as Bombay I think some of them could be 700+-squad horror shows by late 1943 when they can return to their homeland.

The supply road through the Chinese mountains is a problem. I have some time; most everything in that stack has 500+ internal supply. But it's not a menace if it's out of supply. I have considered walking a few corps across the top of Tsuyung and getting hexsides which link to Paoshan, but Paoshan doesn't have any supply to spare either right now. I don't want to strip Chengtu of infantry to go after the tanks stopering the eastern road ingress since Chengtu is a bastion city for Chungking and an important secondary AF. If I lose it soon Chungking's job is much harder. I think I'll wait and see what his reaction to FUDD is before I do anything radical. If it makes him lash out from Tsuyung by either driving on Paoshan, or by moving into the mountains to challenge the Big Stack, that opens new possibilities. The Big Stack can survive 3-4 weeks under the status quo.

Delicate situation for sure. Personally I would really try to open the road. If you can grab Rangoon and clear Tsuyung (sp?) that extra supply you would get from "Burma road open" is going to make a lot of difference in China. It would also leave you a retreat path to Burma when/if needed. Do you know how much he has there and in Kumming? Can you dislodge his "stopper tanks" or is it impossible?
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by SqzMyLemon »

I'm enjoying the AAR as well. The slow pace of operations is fine with me.

I think your opponent is just getting enlightened as to Japanese tactical air capabilities. It requires tremendous effort and large numbers of bombers to shut down larger airbases with even moderate amounts of engineers on hand. I agree with your assessment, he needed to focus his assets one target at a time to ensure success. I've learned in the past that Japan simply can't rely on LBA alone. In this case, he should have facilitated his bombing campaign by preventing supply reaching Singapore. It's also a huge waste of Betty/Nell pilots bombing land targets, unless he's changed the experience level of the pilots. That may explain his poor results, if not, that's an extreme waste of one of Japan's primary combat assets.

I'll try to be diplomatic here, but with pretty much a free for all in terms of gameplay, to not have captured Singapore by now seems...unexplainable. I noticed your opponent's play against Nemo, and it seems to me when things don't go as planned his train derails pretty quickly.

That being said, I'm glad I'm not playing you. [;)]
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
Delicate situation for sure. Personally I would really try to open the road. If you can grab Rangoon and clear Tsuyung (sp?) that extra supply you would get from "Burma road open" is going to make a lot of difference in China. It would also leave you a retreat path to Burma when/if needed. Do you know how much he has there and in Kumming? Can you dislodge his "stopper tanks" or is it impossible?

Tsuyung reads last turn (and my recon is zilch other than adjacent hex, which is usually very rough) as 17 LCUs. I had a good read on the take-down attack and it was about 109,000 men. Six IDs, a lot of tanks and engineers. Some of that might have gone away on the railroad, but I think most is still there. He is bombing Chengtu most every day, and the Big Stack. Usually a handful of casualties, like 15, and disrupted, not killed, squads. Most of them have been there long enough that they have a couple of levels of local, field forts.

I don't think there's any way to re-take Tsuyung without help from the Burma side, and that's not coming until the Allies get a lot more mechanized help in from the US and Britain. As long as the Big Stack is there it is, in chess terms, a pin. If he attacks it it stands awhile, eats at him (it's in awesome defense terrain.) Then can fall back a hex or two on the road. If he follows a force can come from Paoshan and take or attack Tsuyung, either taking it or making his road force come back to save it. If his Tsuyung force goes for Paoshan (no knockover of a base, believe me) he has to leave enough behind to hold the back door open against the Big Stack. Maybe half or more. Half of what's at Tsuyung probably can't take Paoshan, and if it does there's Lashio beyond that, and it's far stronger than Paoshan. Then there's the Mandalay group, with a lot of the Chinese army, fully supplied now.

As for the stopper tanks, I'm not sure he realizes yet they themselves are cut off from supply by the cav unit at the yellow road intersection. I'm light bombing the tanks to try to eat at their supplies. If I sent 3-4 corps from Chengtu to attack them I leave it weak, plus the odds are if I win all the tanks do is retreat deeper into the mountains, still stoppering the road. If a supply route is going to be opened to the Big Stack it'll either be across the top of Tsuyung once Paoshan gets fatter, or the tanks will leave or be forced to leave, by air attacks and lack of their own supply.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I'm enjoying the AAR as well. The slow pace of operations is fine with me.

I think your opponent is just getting enlightened as to Japanese tactical air capabilities. It requires tremendous effort and large numbers of bombers to shut down larger airbases with even moderate amounts of engineers on hand. I agree with your assessment, he needed to focus his assets one target at a time to ensure success. I've learned in the past that Japan simply can't rely on LBA alone. In this case, he should have facilitated his bombing campaign by preventing supply reaching Singapore. It's also a huge waste of Betty/Nell pilots bombing land targets, unless he's changed the experience level of the pilots. That may explain his poor results, if not, that's an extreme waste of one of Japan's primary combat assets.

I'll try to be diplomatic here, but with pretty much a free for all in terms of gameplay, to not have captured Singapore by now seems...unexplainable. I noticed your opponent's play against Nemo, and it seems to me when things don't go as planned his train derails pretty quickly.

That being said, I'm glad I'm not playing you. [;)]

So far as I know he last played before the last official patch. He has had some beefs with the air coordination all along, but from my POV most of the attacks arrive with fighters and sweeps come first most of the time. There is never one huge strike, but I can tell from vectors they're coming from north Borneo and north Malaysia at least, and no one should expect those to ever be coordinated. I do think he relies on air too much, but I've never played Japan either. There are 34 LCUs tied up at Singers, and 7-10 more at JB. If I get Rangoon he's going to have to decide if he sends stuff up there. If he does I think he can kiss Palembang goodbye forever.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: JocMeister
Delicate situation for sure. Personally I would really try to open the road. If you can grab Rangoon and clear Tsuyung (sp?) that extra supply you would get from "Burma road open" is going to make a lot of difference in China. It would also leave you a retreat path to Burma when/if needed. Do you know how much he has there and in Kumming? Can you dislodge his "stopper tanks" or is it impossible?

Tsuyung reads last turn (and my recon is zilch other than adjacent hex, which is usually very rough) as 17 LCUs. I had a good read on the take-down attack and it was about 109,000 men. Six IDs, a lot of tanks and engineers. Some of that might have gone away on the railroad, but I think most is still there. He is bombing Chengtu most every day, and the Big Stack. Usually a handful of casualties, like 15, and disrupted, not killed, squads. Most of them have been there long enough that they have a couple of levels of local, field forts.

I don't think there's any way to re-take Tsuyung without help from the Burma side, and that's not coming until the Allies get a lot more mechanized help in from the US and Britain. As long as the Big Stack is there it is, in chess terms, a pin. If he attacks it it stands awhile, eats at him (it's in awesome defense terrain.) Then can fall back a hex or two on the road. If he follows a force can come from Paoshan and take or attack Tsuyung, either taking it or making his road force come back to save it. If his Tsuyung force goes for Paoshan (no knockover of a base, believe me) he has to leave enough behind to hold the back door open against the Big Stack. Maybe half or more. Half of what's at Tsuyung probably can't take Paoshan, and if it does there's Lashio beyond that, and it's far stronger than Paoshan. Then there's the Mandalay group, with a lot of the Chinese army, fully supplied now.

As for the stopper tanks, I'm not sure he realizes yet they themselves are cut off from supply by the cav unit at the yellow road intersection. I'm light bombing the tanks to try to eat at their supplies. If I sent 3-4 corps from Chengtu to attack them I leave it weak, plus the odds are if I win all the tanks do is retreat deeper into the mountains, still stoppering the road. If a supply route is going to be opened to the Big Stack it'll either be across the top of Tsuyung once Paoshan gets fatter, or the tanks will leave or be forced to leave, by air attacks and lack of their own supply.

Ouch, well I guess that makes it impossible then. No way you can move them. 6 IDs + more is what? Around 3000-3500 AV? In mountains to top it off. How much do you have in your "big stack?" Perhaps you could just skirt North of Tsuying and move for Burma? China is going to be lost anyway and those troops could really be helpful in Burma I think. If I were you I would much rather have my "pin" on the right side of his troops.

In all essence the troops in Central China is cut off then? How much is there?
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Ouch, well I guess that makes it impossible then. No way you can move them. 6 IDs + more is what? Around 3000-3500 AV? In mountains to top it off. How much do you have in your "big stack?" Perhaps you could just skirt North of Tsuying and move for Burma? China is going to be lost anyway and those troops could really be helpful in Burma I think. If I were you I would much rather have my "pin" on the right side of his troops.

In all essence the troops in Central China is cut off then? How much is there?

I'd guess around 3000 AV. Probably in the old combat reports, but I don't want to dig them out. It is what it is. Or was.

A screenshot of the Big Stack is below. All units are at 68, 45.

Moving them to the other side of Tsuyung, right now, gets me nothing. They give up their local forts and gain fatigue. And there's no supply over there anyway. Paoshan is being supplied by air from Ledo, and everything flown in is being sucked up into internal supply by the garrison. The base has 30-40 supply each turn. It's also building forts.

I gave up China voluntarily beginning in December. The early pages of this AAR describe why. So far I'm happy with the decision. His garrison requirements are high, the VPs have been manageable (I've never trailed in VPs in the game, not even a day), and I kept a couple of supply-generating bases. I had planned to withdraw all the way to Lashio and make its defenses massive, but I was convinced by RockyRoo to take another look at a more forward defense, and I'm happy I listened. The Big Stack sort of evolved due to the lower speed of advance through the mountains and his speed of advance up to the gates of Tsuyung. If I had more time the Big Stack would be on the way into Burma now. As it is I think it's a good lever, multiplying its effect. A smaller force tying down an immense one during critical weeks and months for Japan.

In the next week or so I'm going to experiment with trying to air-drop some supplies into 68, 45. I have no experience playing the AI with open country supply missions. Need to re-read the manual on that. It would be a trickle, but might help a bit. The majority of the transports are going to focus on Paoshan though.



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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by V I Lenin »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


In the next week or so I'm going to experiment with trying to air-drop some supplies into 68, 45. I have no experience playing the AI with open country supply missions. Need to re-read the manual on that. It would be a trickle, but might help a bit. The majority of the transports are going to focus on Paoshan though.


If I remember - supply drops to units drop 1/2 the supply that supply drops to an airfield would (assuming normal range). So, it is a question of, is it worth that tradeoff...
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